Feminism and Dating - I'm Confused

[¿Que?]

Feminism: The idea that men have a privileged position over women.

Scenario: A woman tells you she'd like to meet for coffee and gives you her number without you asking. She says she'd like to meet on Saturday (it's Thursday) for coffee. You call Friday in the evening to solidify the tentative arrangement. She calls back three hours later (around 9:30). She is wondering if you are calling to do something tonight, but she is out with friends, and says that she'll be available at 10:30. She says she'll call you at 10:30pm. At 9:45pm, your friend calls you but you tell him you're driving to the next town (roughly a 30min drive because you live in a small shitty college town) and that you will be meeting with this woman. You had to drive to town anyway to check on your friend's cat, so the drive is not really the issue. You arrive at your friend's house at precisely 10:45 and she still has not called. You wait until 11:30pm and she still hasn't called. You decide to call to make sure everything is ok. The conversation is confusing mostly because she is trying to tell you that she doesn't feel like hanging out tonight. You can hear people in the background, so clearly she's out with friends. She uses the excuse that you are in another town to tell you that it might be better to get together tomorrow. You don't mention that you are in town and ask when you should call. She says 2pm. You feel like total shit.

Now keep in mind you are not a lesbian woman. You are a misogynist, patriarchal, potential rapist, male chauvinist pig. This is what you are. You might say you believe feminism is right, but you don't believe it right now. Because right now you don't really feel very privileged and definitely if there is a power relation here, you're on the losing end. Your best bet is to either drown yourself in alcohol, get high in some form or fashion, or fap yourself a hernia.

What is a feminist interpretation of this?

I think that life is a wager, and I put my money on meeting this woman, but unfortunately, I should have put my money on my homeboy, so that way we could be having a merry romp downtown college town, laughing at the drunk frat kids and getting kicked out of places.

But I can do that with my homeboy anytime. This lady, well, she's one of a kind. Not an anytime kind of deal. Not for me anyway. Clearly for her, though.

So do women have specific areas of privilege over men, but that do not necessarily translate to a general overall overarching privilege, which empirical evidence shows men clearly have.

Any thoughts.

Also there's a poll.

EDIT: This issue has been resolved in post #14. Please feel free to continue to offer input, but I will probably be asleep. Just make sure to take post #14 into consideration when you respond. Thanks.

[kahimikarie]

I've been in this situation a few times, but with the genders reversed. I don't think it's really a gender issue.

[¿Que?]

I've been in this situation a few times, but with the genders reversed. I don't think it's really a gender issue.

I've no doubt that this happens to women too. I'm just wondering to what extent does it happen to women and to what extent does it happen to men. And not only that, but are there qualitative differences in how it happens.

I seriously doubt your situations were exactly like mine, so various things come into play. I don't know enough about how it happened to you to say, but in your case, within the context of a feminist social critique, we could say that these men hold little respect for women as a result of their privileged status, in which inconsiderate behavior goes unchallenged a most likely rewarded.

In the case of women, it is more difficult to frame it like that. Because like I said, women hold a less privileged position than men, in general, which means that their behavior must be a response to patriarchy, not the cause of it. But in any case, what's important here is that in resisting patriarchy, sometimes people's feelings get hurt, and we have to deal with the question of whether it's right or wrong in any particular context.

Really, the personal is political, and it is pointless to contribute to this thread thinking otherwise.

[9]

In the case of women, it is more difficult to frame it like that. Because like I said, women hold a less privileged position than men, in general, which means that their behavior must be a response to patriarchy, not the cause of it.

maybe she's just not into you, bro.....?

[¿Que?]

maybe she's just not into you, bro.....?
Well, first off, keep in mind that I just met this person and I don't really know anything about them and neither does she know anything about me. So, it's a little early to say if anybody is really into anybody. But I think if that were the case then why would she have asked me to call her. I didn't ask her for her number, hell I didn't even make an effort to talk to her yesterday. So between yesterday and today, I'm getting two different people. Yesterday, it's yes let's meet I'd like to get to know you, and today is, well I got a very active social life and I can't really involve you in it.

Also, 9, I hate to say this, but this is not chit chat. So try to be a little less condescending, or you might end up with an infraction.

[9]

I'm not trying to be condescending, but seriously-- is it not a little weird to try to analyze individual actions of individual women that you meet in terms of "the patriarchy"...?

[¿Que?]

I'm not trying to be condescending, but seriously-- is it not a little weird to try to analyze individual actions of individual women that you meet in terms of "the patriarchy"...?
So I guess theory is just some abstract thing that has no bearing on how people live and what they actually do. Hm...

Or are you making an observation about social norms and such?

[9]

So I guess theory is just some abstract thing that has no bearing on how people live and what they actually do. Hm...

The fact that women are oppressed doesn't mean that you can explain any given action by an individual woman in terms of "the patriarchy".

[¿Que?]

The fact that women are oppressed doesn't mean that you can explain any given action by an individual woman in terms of "the patriarchy".
Maybe, maybe not. That's not the issue. In this particular case you can, because it relates to dating, at least to me, because I'm not exactly trying to connect with this person for strictly platonic or business purposes. And in this context, patriarchy is very much an issue, if not for her actions, then at least for my own reaction, which may have an effect on others, including hers.

But also there are theoretical perspectives for every behavior, maybe not a feminist one. So at least offer an alternative.

The purpose of this thread is specifically for bridging the chasm between the personal (private and public) and the broader social context.

[caramelpence]

Is this a serious thread? In what way is there anything like a "power relation" or an exercise of "privilege" here? From what I could get from you post, a woman you're interested in vaguely suggested she would meet you that night rather than the next day, later on that night she decided she would rather hang out with her friends instead. You don't need a "theoretical perspective", there's nothing exploitative or at all unusual going on here.

[jake williams]

So do women have specific areas of privilege over men
Yes, which is why any analysis of society in terms of "privilege" is a dead end.

That said, it's distinct from the fact that individuals do shitty things to other individuals, regardless of individual or group privileges, or positions of power. In terms of the sort of thing you're describing, I see no reason to believe women do it to men more often than men do it to women (or straight people do it to other straight people more often than gay people do it to other gay people). I hear from women friends and relatives that men are uniquely callous in romantic or sexual relationships about as often as I hear the reverse from men.

I do think that there may be an extent to which some parts of society are sympathetic to women's personal problems with men of the sort you're describing, in a way they're less sympathetic to analogous or even identical problems men have. When men find themselves in these situations, it's unfortunate. But there are other parts of society where sympathies are reversed, which again I think suggests that situational relative privilege is the wrong way to analyze society. Structural sexism in class society is a problem for the whole working class, but harms women especially. Interpersonal unpleasantness is a different sort of issue.

[Thirsty Crow]

Is this a serious thread? In what way is there anything like a "power relation" or an exercise of "privilege" here? From what I could get from you post, a woman you're interested in vaguely suggested she would meet you that night rather than the next day, later on that night she decided she would rather hang out with her friends instead. You don't need a "theoretical perspective", there's nothing exploitative or at all unusual going on here.

This.
And also: people change their minds. No matter the gender.
For instance, it could well be that she encountered a friend whom she hasn't seen for a long time. This is hypothetical, of course, but there could be tons of reasons why she decided to postpone the meeting.

[PhoenixAsh]

Feminism: The idea that men have a privileged position over women.

Its not. Its the awareness that men in general have a priviliged positon over women and feminism is the notion to remedy that and the political concept to struggle for equality.



Scenario: A woman tells you she'd like to meet for coffee and gives you her number without you asking. Good for you. Now...why did she give you her number? Just out of the blue? Obviously there has been some communication before hand and perhaps some flirting?



She says she'd like to meet on Saturday (it's Thursday) for coffee. You call Friday in the evening to solidify the tentative arrangement. She calls back three hours later (around 9:30). She is wondering if you are calling to do something tonight, but she is out with friends, and says that she'll be available at 10:30. She says she'll call you at 10:30pm.Wait...let me get this straight. You called and she did not answer. She then called back to see if you wanted to ask her out for that specific night...while you had agreed to go out on saturday.

Ok...hmmm...strange. Was this just an assumption or was this a suggestion from her? And I take it you said: sure?

Because all this is really important for making any sort of analysis about what happens next.



At 9:45pm, your friend calls you but you tell him you're driving to the next town (roughly a 30min drive because you live in a small shitty college town) and that you will be meeting with this woman. You had to drive to town anyway to check on your friend's cat, so the drive is not really the issue. You arrive at your friend's house at precisely 10:45 and she still has not called. You wait until 11:30pm and she still hasn't called. You decide to call to make sure everything is ok. The conversation is confusing mostly because she is trying to tell you that she doesn't feel like hanging out tonight. You can hear people in the background, so clearly she's out with friends. She uses the excuse that you are in another town to tell you that it might be better to get together tomorrow.Like you initially planned. This seems to me that she was hanging out with friends which turned out to be more fun tahn she initially thought or maybe plans chaged with the groups and she is no longer available.

Its a bit dodgy that she didn't call....but perhaps you misunderstood the previous conversation and she said: I MIGHT be available and if so I will call at 10:30. Or perhaps that is what she ment. Or perhaps she just forgot.



You don't mention that you are in town and ask when you should call. She says 2pm. You feel like total shit. Why? It sucks...but pretty much you still have a date. One on the day you initially agreed upon.



Now keep in mind you are not a lesbian woman. You are a misogynist, patriarchal, potential rapist, male chauvinist pig. This is what you are.THIS has not got anything to do with it. THIS is your assumption of what you are based on some idiotic parts of the feminist movement. Perhaps you are what you describe here...I do not know you...but in that case you should not be seeking dates but serioous psychological help.


You might say you believe feminism is right, but you don't believe it right now. Because right now you don't really feel very privileged and definitely if there is a power relation here, you're on the losing end. Your best bet is to either drown yourself in alcohol, get high in some form or fashion, or fap yourself a hernia.Yeah,..but you know where you go wrong...the privilige in Patriarchy is NOT multi present in inter human relations. It affects behaviour...sure. It affacts gender roles and privileges certain gender roles above others and especially women. But that does not mean you can equate privilege with women being at your back and call as soon as you do them the honour of calling.

Sorry...but your story degenerated into a bit of a sexist rant here.



What is a feminist interpretation of this?The feminist interpretation of this is completely irrelevant except for the last part of your story where you get al sexist and shit and actually expected her to do what you wanted to do based on the fact that she is a woman.

You do not feel rejected because she cancelled a date (which she did not...because you just told us she told you that it would be better to go out on saturday and you should call at 2 pm) you feel rejected because apparantly she is a woman who wasn't ready for you at the specific time you wanted her to be.

Thats basically the feminist interpretation of you story.


Now...if you want the interpretation of what happened based on the non-sexist part of your story:

She was having a good time. You called. She thought she might be free and did want to see you. THis last bit is important. But her plans changed. Now it wasn't clear if she did not call because she forgot, if she was being an asshole or inconsiderate, or that you misrepresented or misunderstood what happened in the prior conversation...but in anyway...she changed her mind about meeting sooner. She did NOT however dismiss you...because she did state she wanted to go out the next day. So...basically...yeah it sucks. You hoped to see her tonight (and I am assuming this is because you are interested in her and not because you wanted to just shoot your load into some girls vagina) and that did not happen...you have to wait another day to see this girl.


I think that life is a wager, and I put my money on meeting this woman, but unfortunately, I should have put my money on my homeboy, so that way we could be having a merry romp downtown college town, laughing at the drunk frat kids and getting kicked out of places. And there I was thinking you had to drive to that other town to watch a cat you promised to watch for another friend.

You did not put your money anywhere. You just did what you promiswed and hoped you could see that girl that night....before she called you...as she had said; while she had prior engagements.

Now that sucks...but she did not dismmis you. You are seeing her tonight. And you are being very melodramatic about it. Which I can appreciate. But is not really justified sincewhat I am taking away is that she is still interested in you.



But I can do that with my homeboy anytime. This lady, well, she's one of a kind. Not an anytime kind of deal. Not for me anyway. Clearly for her, though. here is what you said:

tell you that it might be better to get together tomorrow.


So also not for her and you are acting like a whiny kid here.



So do women have specific areas of privilege over men, but that do not necessarily translate to a general overall overarching privilege, which empirical evidence shows men clearly have. In deciding when to date and how to date women have the exact same privilege as men if they are not forced or coerced.

the power you refered to earlier was the power you gave her when you decided to go drive to another town hoping she was all ready for you....and got hopelessly depressed when she actually wanted to see you the very next day.


Any thoughts.Yeah...you are being melodramtic, a tad bit sexist and clearly fail to see what is right in front of you: you apparantly have the option of a date on saturday.

She did not dismiss you, she did not play you...she just wanted a date the next day.

YOU STILL HAVE A DATE.


Also there's a pollI chose all of these options;

Has Almost No Understanding, and Since He Doesn't Even Know this Person, Really He Shouldn't Judge
Has Absolutely No Clue, I mean, What's the Big Deal?
Is Clearly slightly Mysoginist, You can tell by the linguistic style and tone



I am sorry if this comes off as being condescending...but really? Serious? Come on.....I am a completely insecure and can be very melodramatic at times...but hell man, you are topping me, and that is really not good.

[¿Que?]

OK, thank you hindsight for taking the time to answer in such detail. And thanks everyone else too. I guess I feel slighted because she said she was going to call at 10:30 and never did and probably never would have the whole night. So I take this to be an inconsiderate thing to do. She may have forgotten or whatever, but still, that's not really an excuse, because I'm not even 100% that she even acknowledged it when I called, or even apologized.

So, maybe I do have a date, but maybe I don't really want to go on this date anymore, because frankly, if this is the sort of thing I'm going to have to be dealing with on a regular basis, I'd prefer not.

SO yeah, maybe I'm being whiny, and maybe there's no broader social context to consider here in terms of feminism or any other theory. But there is the issue of how familiar this all seems and how never in my life when I'm in situations like these do they end up as anything more than a reaffirmation of my insecurities.

So, yeah. It's 9:16am here and I still haven't slept, and I think I'm going to go to sleep and not set the alarm. I have no responsibilities for today, and if I should happen to wake up before 2 then maybe I'll call. If not, well, I doubt she'll even miss it.

[caramelpence]

It probably was a mean thing to do, and it's the kind of thing that both men and women do quite regularly, but in all seriousness, if you've stayed up the entire night for that reason, and if that makes you so uncomfortable to the extent that you're telling yourself that you shouldn't be interested in her anymore, then it's probably not such a good idea to think of the issue in political terms, because, whilst it's true that the slogan "the personal is political" can be enlightening in some contexts, in this instance it sounds like this is more to do with a set of very personal issues. I do know what you mean about it often seeming as if apparent opportunities for a real connection with people you're attracted to are just that, apparent, and it's easy in those circumstances to feel angry with a person and to tell yourself that things will never work out, but the best thing I can say is that if she is interested (and it will become clear quickly if she's not) then meet up anyway and maybe you'll really connect. If you develop a connection, then you might decide in the future to tell her you didn't appreciate what she did that night. Just don't write her off because of one thing she did that may or may not have been done with the knowledge that it was pretty rude.

So go meet her, and tell us how it goes, if you like. :)

[Le Libérer]

Give it a couple of days and call her back. And take her to lunch. Its less intimidating for everyone. Plus it gives you a springboard for a real date that last more than an hour.

[Le Libérer]

Also, this poll isnt complete. It doesnt have an all of the above and abstain option. ;)

[¿Que?]

Yeah, in retrospect, I think the poll borders on trolling, because this is not supposed to be a humor forum, but the topic is legit, and the poll was just to give it a light-hearted feel. I think, though it may be skirting the line of what's appropriate for this forum. Sorry about that.

[IndependentCitizen]

lolwut?

[¿Que?]

Hm...

I'm all embarrassed now.

[Robespierre Richard]

The story bored me so I voted "cut his nuts off." This is almost as bad as the "don't wanna be white" thread, except without the 10 page flamefest.

[gorillafuck]

COTR's advice is the correct strategy.

Also you seem like you're overthinking this massively. seriously. There's no power structures involved this is just how a lot of people act.

[Meridian]

So do women have specific areas of privilege over men
Women make up half the population or more. I think gender research is interesting, but parts of it is riddled with oversimplifications and attempts to frame issues in an explanatory context which is misfitting.

In many areas, people who happen to be women having 'privilege' over people who happen to be men (being in a relation of power to other males) is exceedingly rare. In other areas, it is nearly as common as the other way around. The manifestations of such relationships and in what way power is defined is the interesting part of the research.

A relevant question is whether some (specific) people have influence over others; if so, what is the cause or motivation for this influence, is it related specifically to the genders of the people in the relationship, or is their gender a circumstantial factor? In many cases there are conflicting motivations and causations, such as in the relationship between male workers subordinate to female capitalists, which runs contrary to traditional power relations as long as the 'class' frame of reference is considered. I think in some nations the 'class' frame of reference, or private/property oriented relations, is diverging with traditional ways to portray power between genders.

[black magick hustla]

hey bro women are not from venus

[black magick hustla]

COTR's advice is the correct strategy.

Also you seem like you're overthinking this massively. seriously. There's no power structures involved this is just how a lot of people act.
idk dawg ok didnt read the stupid op but there is plenty of stuff in our inter personal relationships that are fucked up because of class society. for example, in the west there is this dumb concept of looking disinterested in order to score or some shit. that shit is pretty dehumanizing and to say that "its just the way people act" is a bit intellectualy lazy

[Le Libérer]

Hm...

I'm all embarrassed now.

Son, pick yourself up and carry on.

[bailey_187]

i recommend asking her this:
"considering we are both good looking individuals, why have we not engaged in intercourse yet?"

im being super cereal btw, im not actually trolling (i done this a few times)

[Meridian]

i recommend asking her this:
"considering we are both good looking individuals, why have we not engaged in intercourse yet?"

im being super cereal btw, im not actually trolling (i done this a few times)
http://i.imgur.com/XJyGY.gif

[Bright Banana Beard]

i recommend asking her this:
"considering we are both good looking individuals, why have we not engaged in intercourse yet?"

im being super cereal btw, im not actually trolling (i done this a few times)

As a good looking guy myself, I can confirm this works well.

[Tim Finnegan]

i recommend asking her this:
"considering we are both good looking individuals, why have we not engaged in intercourse yet?"
And when the answer "humans are kinda complex" hits you like the not-exactly-bombshell that it is, you can maybe start asking some slightly more useful questions... :rolleyes:

[Le Libérer]

As a good looking guy myself, I can confirm this works well.

With women who have no self esteem and sleeps with anyone who will look their way.

[Manic Impressive]

With women who have no self esteem and sleeps with anyone who will look their way.
And with men who have no self esteem and sleeps with anyone who will look their way.

[black magick hustla]

edit:useless comment

[¿Que?]

So since I stayed up until like 11am on saturday I slept the rest of the day and missed her text. I think I've probably ruined my chances with her now. Oh Well.

[PhoenixAsh]

So since I stayed up until like 11am on saturday I slept the rest of the day and missed her text. I think I've probably ruined my chances with her now. Oh Well.

That entirely depends...and does not have to be the case.

What did she text?

[¿Que?]

That entirely depends...and does not have to be the case.

What did she text?
She asked me what time the place closes I suggested we go to. It's about quarter to 10am here, and I'm waiting 'till about 11am to call her.

However, the thing is, cuz I literally slept through Saturday, and my friend is telling me I should lie and tell her my phone wasn't working or something. What do you think?

[gorillafuck]

idk dawg ok didnt read the stupid op but there is plenty of stuff in our inter personal relationships that are fucked up because of class society. for example, in the west there is this dumb concept of looking disinterested in order to score or some shit. that shit is pretty dehumanizing and to say that "its just the way people act" is a bit intellectualy lazyThere would probably still be wicked stupid tendencies among people especially in regards to sexual stuff because it occupies peoples minds so much if classes were abolished. But that's not the point I was responding to OP and specifically his situation and he was definitely over analyzing it.

[PhoenixAsh]

She asked me what time the place closes I suggested we go to. It's about quarter to 10am here, and I'm waiting 'till about 11am to call her.

However, the thing is, cuz I literally slept through Saturday, and my friend is telling me I should lie and tell her my phone wasn't working or something. What do you think?

That depends. Perhaps a half truth here is in order.

Say you slept through the day because you didn't sleep and were tired and didn't hear you phone. Say you are really sorry and you are going to take her out to make it up to her.

Not really lying...not really telling the truth.

[Magón]

I believe this...


http://i.imgur.com/XJyGY.gif

can now go with this.


With women who have no self esteem and sleeps with anyone who will look their way.

:cool:

[black magick hustla]

With women who have no self esteem and sleeps with anyone who will look their way.

some people are just down to fuck

[Le Libérer]

some people are just down to fuck

Sure they are, but anyone who succumbs to shitty lines like that, cannot like themselves. Gah

[gorillafuck]

either that or they're constantly looking for opportunities to have more sex.

[Tim Finnegan]

Sure they are, but anyone who succumbs to shitty lines like that, cannot like themselves. Gah
Or like themselves far too much, and can be seduced with slightest compliment. http://media.bigoo.ws/content/smile/miscellaneous/smile_280.gif

[bailey_187]

Sure they are, but anyone who succumbs to shitty lines like that, cannot like themselves. Gah

or they realise, yeah this person is good looking, and they think i am, so we might as well have sex seeing as we will both probably enjoy it

[praxis1966]

She asked me what time the place closes I suggested we go to. It's about quarter to 10am here, and I'm waiting 'till about 11am to call her.

However, the thing is, cuz I literally slept through Saturday, and my friend is telling me I should lie and tell her my phone wasn't working or something. What do you think?

Unless she just fell off the turnip truck that "aw bro my phone was on the fizzle, srs" shit isn't gonna fly. You tell her that and not only is she gonna think you're a liar but that you don't respect her because you think she's stupid enough to believe it. You say that shit and you really will have screwed the pooch if you haven't already.

Also, do what Hindsight said.

Also, see a shrink. And a psychiatrist. Get some valiums or klonopins or xanax (ie something in the benzo family) the legit way and get yourself some counseling... Because on the real, you sound completely neurotic. No disrespect, but you do.

[Salyut]

Get some valiums or klonopins or xanax (ie something in the benzo family) the legit way and get yourself some counseling... Because on the real, you sound completely neurotic. No disrespect, but you do.

Careful with that stuff. Long term use of benzos (like over four months) = ooooh shit.

Get a nice indica. :tt1:

[PhoenixAsh]

we need an update...

[praxis1966]

Careful with that stuff. Long term use of benzos (like over four months) = ooooh shit.

Get a nice indica. :tt1:

Yeah, but EV clearly sounds like he has some anxiety issues and depending on their cause, pot could actually exacerbate rather than mitigate them. Anyway, counseling at the very least.

[¿Que?]

we need an update...
Ok, we went out last night, but it was sort of a friend thing. She brought a friend, and asked me to bring a friend. The four of us had some drinks, chatted, it was a good night. Might be getting together later on in the week, but like I said, at this point, it seems like a platonic thing, and having gotten to know her better, I don't have much of a problem with that.

And yes, I am a bit neurotic. Thanks for noticing...

[PhoenixAsh]

Ok...well...thats not too bad then. Good job. See where it goes.

Do something about the neurotic thing...either let somebody see if they can do something with it...or...better idea...become a great (though incredibly annoying) actor and make loads of movies to entertain us :-) Woody Allan is not going to last forever you know.

[¿Que?]

Ok...well...thats not too bad then. Good job. See where it goes.

Do something about the neurotic thing...either let somebody see if they can do something with it...or...better idea...become a great (though incredibly annoying) actor and make loads of movies to entertain us :-) Woody Allan is not going to last forever you know.
Yeah, I'm actually seeing a therapist, and have a script for Xanax. But it makes me sleepy, and last night they were sort of ragging on me (in a fun way, tho) about how I kept yawning.

[☭The Revolution☭]

Feminism is sexism on the end of women.

[PhoenixAsh]

No its not. Don't be stupid. Feminism is, as has been said, the political notion to correct the unequalities based on sex and gender roles in society. SOME feminist groups however are sexist towards men...and thereby are not feminist at all. Just as some feminists are actually quite mysogenistic and therefore not feminists at all.

[Tim Finnegan]

Feminism is sexism on the end of women.
I am not even sure what this means. Like, as a sentence.

[gorillafuck]

Feminism is sexism on the end of women.No it's not.

[Salyut]

Feminism is sexism on the end of women.

are you one of those MRA guys

because lol

[praxis1966]

And yes, I am a bit neurotic. Thanks for noticing...


Yeah, I'm actually seeing a therapist, and have a script for Xanax. But it makes me sleepy, and last night they were sort of ragging on me (in a fun way, tho) about how I kept yawning.

Yeah, sorry if that came across as douchey... I can be a little tactless at times. Anyway, nothing to be ashamed of. If only I had health insurance I'd be in a shrink's and/or psychiatrist's office tomorrow... As it stands, I'm on the waiting list for about three different public health clinics to that end but it takes months to get in if you're not like suicidal/homicidal.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it takes one to know one. Oh, and maybe see about getting your dosage lowered? If it's the lowest available and still zonking you, maybe invest in a pill cutter and chop 'em in half. Just an idea...

[¿Que?]

Yeah, sorry if that came across as douchey... I can be a little tactless at times. Anyway, nothing to be ashamed of. If only I had health insurance I'd be in a shrink's and/or psychiatrist's office tomorrow... As it stands, I'm on the waiting list for about three different public health clinics to that end but it takes months to get in if you're not like suicidal/homicidal.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it takes one to know one. Oh, and maybe see about getting your dosage lowered? If it's the lowest available and still zonking you, maybe invest in a pill cutter and chop 'em in half. Just an idea...
Well, at this point I'm considering dropping the shrink and going to one of these "healing" churches. I hear personal testimony that they're pretty good at curing social anxiety, addiction, neurosis and other ailments :tt1:

[praxis1966]

Well, at this point I'm considering dropping the shrink and going to one of these "healing" churches. I hear personal testimony that they're pretty good at curing social anxiety, addiction, neurosis and other ailments :tt1:

I can't tell if you're joking or not but this really made me laugh. :lol: Thx...

[La Comédie Noire]

Are you seeking dating advice from the revolutionary left? Well I guess it would differ from tendency to tendency. :lol:

[☭The Revolution☭]

Just saying, I have yet to encounter a feminist organization that is actually about gender EQUALITY. All the ones I have encountered are matriarchist supremiscist "ewwwwww penis" clubs.

[hatzel]

Are you seeking dating advice from the revolutionary left? Well I guess it would differ from tendency to tendency. :lol:

Anybody know if Marx write a book on dating, per chance?


Just saying, I have yet to encounter a feminist organization that is actually about gender EQUALITY. All the ones I have encountered are matriarchist supremiscist "ewwwwww penis" clubs.

You way you say it almost makes it seem like it's true if it weren't just totally obviously not...

[PhoenixAsh]

Just saying, I have yet to encounter a feminist organization that is actually about gender EQUALITY. All the ones I have encountered are matriarchist supremiscist "ewwwwww penis" clubs.

Most of them are not however...

A few of them are...either because they are agitating against an extreme and take it to an extreme (two extremes end up in the middle) out of strategy or they really have the matriarchical perspective.

[Quail]

Just saying, I have yet to encounter a feminist organization that is actually about gender EQUALITY. All the ones I have encountered are matriarchist supremiscist "ewwwwww penis" clubs.
Have you ever even encountered a "feminist organisation"? You seem to have the typical "feminists are sexist against men derp" attitude common in people who don't know shit about feminism and have never bothered to look into it.

[gorillafuck]

Just saying, I have yet to encounter a feminist organization that is actually about gender EQUALITY. All the ones I have encountered are matriarchist supremiscist "ewwwwww penis" clubs.That's because you've actually been going to girl scout meetings, which is why the organizations you've attended meetings of thought boys are gross.

[Meridian]

A few of them are...either because they are agitating against an extreme and take it to an extreme (two extremes end up in the middle)
Yes, because that's how it works!

[Tim Finnegan]

Just saying, I have yet to encounter a feminist organization that is actually about gender EQUALITY. All the ones I have encountered are matriarchist supremiscist "ewwwwww penis" clubs.
You do realise how many people who would make the same claims about socialist organisations and Stalinistic despotism, don't you? Why are we supposed to take your word for it, by not the good Mr. McCarthy's?


Anybody know if Marx write a book on dating, per chance?
Given that he spent most of his life completely baffled that he'd managed to land an intelligent, attractive aristocrat, I think he'd be the last person who'd be any help! :laugh: Engels was more your man for that, although you'd probably have to skip past the bits about facial grooming- I don't think that walrus moustaches are very "in" at the moment. :bored:

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes, because that's how it works!

I didn't say that it did.

However the strategy is rationally sound....and applied in corporate contract negotiations and management debates....an abstract of it is used in sales techniques...the high position lowers during the course of negotations....the opposite low position increases during negotations.

[Decolonize The Left]

Feminism: The idea that men have a privileged position over women.

Scenario: A woman tells you she'd like to meet for coffee and gives you her number without you asking. She says she'd like to meet on Saturday (it's Thursday) for coffee. You call Friday in the evening to solidify the tentative arrangement. She calls back three hours later (around 9:30). She is wondering if you are calling to do something tonight, but she is out with friends, and says that she'll be available at 10:30. She says she'll call you at 10:30pm. At 9:45pm, your friend calls you but you tell him you're driving to the next town (roughly a 30min drive because you live in a small shitty college town) and that you will be meeting with this woman. You had to drive to town anyway to check on your friend's cat, so the drive is not really the issue. You arrive at your friend's house at precisely 10:45 and she still has not called. You wait until 11:30pm and she still hasn't called. You decide to call to make sure everything is ok. The conversation is confusing mostly because she is trying to tell you that she doesn't feel like hanging out tonight. You can hear people in the background, so clearly she's out with friends. She uses the excuse that you are in another town to tell you that it might be better to get together tomorrow. You don't mention that you are in town and ask when you should call. She says 2pm. You feel like total shit.

Now keep in mind you are not a lesbian woman. You are a misogynist, patriarchal, potential rapist, male chauvinist pig. This is what you are. You might say you believe feminism is right, but you don't believe it right now. Because right now you don't really feel very privileged and definitely if there is a power relation here, you're on the losing end. Your best bet is to either drown yourself in alcohol, get high in some form or fashion, or fap yourself a hernia.

Dude she said she was out with friends on a night when you weren't supposed to meet her in the first place - you should have said "that's cool. I'm looking forward to seeing you on Saturday, have a nice time." You already knew that she was having a good time (as it took her 3 hrs to return the first call), so you should have figured that the "10:30 arrangement" was going to fall through fairly easily. You should have ended the whole thing after the first call and settled on the nice date on Saturday and spared yourself (and now us) the whole problem.

Yeah, and this situation has nothing to do with feminism (as HS20/20 noted,) except for the bit you threw in there at the end.

- August

[praxis1966]

For what it's worth, I happen to have a real, live woman with whom I live. After talking the situation over with her, we both agreed that she probably was full of shit when she said she asked you out as more of a platonic thing. We're betting dollars to doughnuts that the reason she brought a friend and asked you to bring one too was because you two didn't know each other all that well. Hence the chaperones.

[¿Que?]

For what it's worth, I happen to have a real, live woman with whom I live. After talking the situation over with her, we both agreed that she probably was full of shit when she said she asked you out as more of a platonic thing. We're betting dollars to doughnuts that the reason she brought a friend and asked you to bring one too was because you two didn't know each other all that well. Hence the chaperones.
Wow, I kind of wish this thread would die. But for what it's worth, I'm not getting returns on my phone calls. So, that's that. End of story. Time to move on.

[¿Que?]

Dude she said she was out with friends on a night when you weren't supposed to meet her in the first place - you should have said "that's cool. I'm looking forward to seeing you on Saturday, have a nice time." You already knew that she was having a good time (as it took her 3 hrs to return the first call), so you should have figured that the "10:30 arrangement" was going to fall through fairly easily. You should have ended the whole thing after the first call and settled on the nice date on Saturday and spared yourself (and now us) the whole problem.

Yeah, and this situation has nothing to do with feminism (as HS20/20 noted,) except for the bit you threw in there at the end.

- August
And that's what I planned to do, but I sort of slept right through saturday, when she texted me about it. We finally did go out, if you read the whole thread, but now she's not returning my text and call. I called once, and texted once. Time to move on.

[praxis1966]

Wow, I kind of wish this thread would die. But for what it's worth, I'm not getting returns on my phone calls. So, that's that. End of story. Time to move on.

Shitty. I guess this just highlights the inadequacies of communication over the net. There's really no way to know all the variables. Better luck next time, homie.

[¿Que?]

Shitty. I guess this just highlights the inadequacies of communication over the net. There's really no way to know all the variables. Better luck next time, homie.
Well, it was no big deal. As mentioned earlier, I really wasn't all that interested after having gotten to know her a bit better.

What surprises me is that so many people on this board think that feminism has nothing to do with dating, or that "the personal is political" is not relevant to these types of situations.

Also, to whomever voted for the first option, besides me, I think you're cool. :)

[Os Cangaceiros]

find out where she lives, then send the dog in your avatar to her front door with a rose in it's teeth and a note written on the heart.

[praxis1966]

What surprises me is that so many people on this board think that feminism has nothing to do with dating, or that "the personal is political" is not relevant to these types of situations.

Also, to whomever voted for the first option, besides me, I think you're cool. :)

Agreed. If it's any consolation, I felt you had a firm gasp on the concept judging by your previous body of posts before this thread even started. As our Brit comrades would say, I just couldn't be arsed to vote in the poll, lulz...

[Zanthorus]

Engels was more your man for that, although you'd probably have to skip past the bits about facial grooming- I don't think that walrus moustaches are very "in" at the moment. :bored:

This reminds me of one of my favourite moments in Engels correspondence:


Our noble town-hall cellar is now so well fitted out it couldn’t be better; you sit so comfortably between the barrels. Last Sunday we had a moustache evening there. For I had sent out a circular to all moustache-capable young men that it was finally time to horrify all philistines, and that that could not be done better than by wearing moustaches. Everyone with the courage to defy philistinism and wear a moustache should therefore sign. I had soon collected a dozen moustaches, and then the 25th of October, when our moustaches would be a month old, was fixed as the day for a common moustache jubilee. But I had a shrewd idea what would happen, bought a little moustache wax and took it with me; it was then found that one had a truly very fine but unfortunately quite white moustache, while another had been instructed by his principal to hack the criminal thing off. Enough, that evening we had to have at least a few, and those who had none had to paint themselves one. Then I got up and proposed the following toast:

Moustaches always were the pride
Of gallant gentlemen far and wide.
Brave soldiers faced their country’s foes
In brown or black mustachios.
So, in these times of martial glory,
Moustaches are obligatory.
Philistines shirk the burden of bristle
By shaving their faces as clean as a whistle.
We are not philistines, so we
Can let our mustachios flourish free.
Long life to every Christian
Who bears his moustaches like a man.
And may all philistines be damned
For having moustaches banished and banned.- Engels to Marie Engels, October 29th 1840

[Niccolò Rossi]

Holy shit, man, I laughed so loud when I read that. Fucken hell, that Engels guy must have been a hoot.

Nic.

[praxis1966]

Holy shit, man, I laughed so loud when I read that. Fucken hell, that Engels guy must have been a hoot.

Nic.

You should read the stuff about him and Marx boozing it up in London. Priceless.

[gorillafuck]

That's so awesome.

[Bright Banana Beard]

It is too bad that the mustaches won't flow today, it makes you a dirty ugly hipster.

[¿Que?]

Funny mustache thing. How bout we get some beard action over here, tho...

[gorillafuck]

Beard > Mustache