Cuba and China?

[Dimitri Molotov]

I mostly identify myself as an Anarcho-Communist. I despise Stalin and Stalinists, but I have some questions. My high school global history class is currently talking about the Cold War and I usually get into a debate about something with the teacher every single day. (I usually win, otherwise it ends in a stalemate.) Our next topic we started today was China and the Communist revolution and civil war over there. We will also start talking about Cuba again soon. I am pretty good with Cuba but I know close to nothing about China and I honestly don't know what side I would take in a debate. What is the basic Anarcho-Communist position on Mao and China? I know China is more capitalist than anything now economy wise, but under Mao was it actually bad or do people make him out to be worse than he actually was? Because Cuba for instance might not have been perfect, but I know for a fact it became allot better after the revolution. I am pretty good with Cuba but like I said I need help with China.

1. What is the common Anarcho-Communist position on China and Mao and why do they have those views?

2. Is Mao similar to Stalin or did he actually attempt to follow Marx?

3. What other good things came from Mao such as equality for women?

4. Why do Maoists support Mao? And if you oppose Mao why do you oppose him?

5. Is there anything good about Cuba anyone can think of off of the top of their head like statistics wise? I am pretty knowledgeable on Cuba but any extra info about Fidel Castro or Che Guevara would be helpful. What kind of good things did they do for Cuba?

Sorry for making this so long haha. Everytime I type a question It ends up being unnecessarily long.

Thank you, Comrades!
:)

[Koba1917]

1. Anarchists are Anti Authoritarians so most don't agree with Mao's ideas. But I've heard Anarchist see how he helped the Chinese people. You should make your own opinions on things. Not just agree with the Majority.

2. Mao was a Marxist-Leninist (some may disagree) but Mao saw Stalin and a good leader but showed what he did wrong in his eyes also. He followed the ideas of Stalin (socialism in one country) and added his own theory (Maoism) to Marxism-Leninism.

3. Doubling of Life Expectancy. Peoples Communes. Equality. Gave the land to the poor peasants. Mostly just increasing the life of the proletariat and peasants. And a guide for the future ( which was ruined :/) Maoists could also tell you many more positives than I can.

4. I support Mao as a leader but not all his ideas and what he did. Maoists support him because they see Mao Zedong Thought as the best Marxist-Leninist thought.

5. Cuba isn't Communist nor is Castro. But they have a great healthcare system. They have a higher life expectancy than the USA. I don't know a lot about Cuba though, more people will post information. It's pretty much a Pseudo-Socialist State that helps its people really.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I mostly identify myself as an Anarcho-Communist. I despise Stalin and Stalinists, but I have some questions. My high school global history class is currently talking about the Cold War and I usually get into a debate about something with the teacher every single day. (I usually win, otherwise it ends in a stalemate.) Our next topic we started today was China and the Communist revolution and civil war over there. We will also start talking about Cuba again soon. I am pretty good with Cuba but I know close to nothing about China and I honestly don't know what side I would take in a debate. What is the basic Anarcho-Communist position on Mao and China? I know China is more capitalist than anything now economy wise, but under Mao was it actually bad or do people make him out to be worse than he actually was? Because Cuba for instance might not have been perfect, but I know for a fact it became allot better after the revolution. I am pretty good with Cuba but like I said I need help with China.

1. What is the common Anarcho-Communist position on China and Mao and why do they have those views?

Well, as an anarchist you are opposed to the use of the state in any measure, and seek it's immediate and total abolition. Your stance would be that Mao was a dictator, did not achieve communism, and his "Great Leap Forward" resulted in the deaths of millions.

You're modern critique would be that is a totalitarian state capitalist society.


2. Is Mao similar to Stalin or did he actually attempt to follow Marx?

Similar yet different enough. A Maoist may be able to elaborate. In my opinion, no, he did not try to follow Marxism.


3. What other good things came from Mao such as equality for women?

Not a whole lot that I am aware of. Maoists, or historians may elaborate better.


4. Why do Maoists support Mao? And if you oppose Mao why do you oppose him?

Because they agree with his theories and methods?


5. Is there anything good about Cuba anyone can think of off of the top of their head like statistics wise? I am pretty knowledgeable on Cuba but any extra info about Fidel Castro or Che Guevara would be helpful. What kind of good things did they do for Cuba?

Sorry for making this so long haha. Everytime I type a question It ends up being unnecessarily long.

Thank you, Comrades!
:)
Cuba:

Land reform efforts helped to raise living standards by subdividing larger holdings into co-ops. Has a near 100% literacy rate.

Before 1959 the Cuban population was just under 7 million and life expectancy was 58 years. In 2005 the population is 11 million and life expectancy is 77 (UNESCO’s figure).

Before 1959 only 35.2% of the Cuban population had running water and 63% had no WC facilities or latrines. 82.6% had no bathtub or shower. There were 13 small reservoirs. In 2005 94% of the population receives good-quality drinking water. Sanitation has been a priority since the revolution and all Cubans now have WCs or latrines and are able to attend to personal hygiene in their homes. There are 240 reservoirs.

Before 1959 just 7% of homes had electricity. Now 95.5% of Cubans have access to electricity. Solar panels and photo-voltaic cells have been installed in schools and clinics in isolated areas.

Don't worry about length, it helps us answer in greater detail, which provides a better answer to you!

[Chimurenga.]

5. Cuba isn't Communist nor is Castro. But they have a great healthcare system. They have a higher life expectancy than the USA. I don't know a lot about Cuba though

No shit.

[Koba1917]

No shit.
Well except for saying that maybe you could tell me how I am wrong :D

[Dimitri Molotov]

1. Anarchists are Anti Authoritarians so most don't agree with Mao's ideas. But I've heard Anarchist see how he helped the Chinese people. You should make your own opinions on things. Not just agree with the Majority.

I am not trying to follow the majority, I am trying to form my own opinion, my first 4 questions were to see what different people thought about Mao because I don't know enough about him to form an educated opinion. Sorry if my question was worded wrong, I can see how it would appear that's what I was doing. I just was curious to the different arguments that were out there as to whether or not Mao was an actual helpful revolutionary to the cause or just a dictator. I realize he was a dictator and I do oppose all authority but I was curious about what kind of things he accomplished, like even though he is a dictator I wanted to see if he at least made progress towards a Marxist society.

And to elaborate on question 4 I will ask which specific beliefs do you have that cause you to agree or disagree with him?

[Jose Gracchus]

No shit.

What'd he say that was untrue? Castro certainly was not a communist, and only declared publicly for communism pretty late in the game, after the U.S. had all but dropped him off after work in Moscow.

[manic expression]

What'd he say that was untrue? Castro certainly was not a communist, and only declared publicly for communism pretty late in the game, after the U.S. had all but dropped him off after work in Moscow.
1961 isn't "late in the game", it was two years after the defeat of Batista. Fidel was in his 30's. But regardless, Fidel couldn't come out for any leftist ideology until that point. Further, Raul was a communist long before then, and he's presently the president of the Republic of Cuba.

As far as the achievements of the Revolution, Cuba has the best healthcare system in the Americas, 0% child malnutrition, 100% adult literacy, practically no homelessness...and is the most democratic country on the face of the planet.

[TC]

You shouldn't adopt your personal political position in order to conform to what the "anarcho-communist position" or any other "official" position (not that such exists for any ideology) is on a topic. Think and research for your self and don't rely on sectarian dogma, whether its anarchist dogma or Maoist dogma.

[Jose Gracchus]

1961 isn't "late in the game", it was two years after the defeat of Batista. Fidel was in his 30's. But regardless, Fidel couldn't come out for any leftist ideology until that point. Further, Raul was a communist long before then, and he's presently the president of the Republic of Cuba.

Yes, always trusting endlessly in the personal essences of the big names. Let's just admit he was somewhat opportunistic, even if he cared about his people. Raul, despite being a communist, has been 'elected' [sorry but Poder Popular -- soviets or workers' councils it aint] to oversee the reintroduction of internal markets and some kind of neoliberalism.


As far as the achievements of the Revolution, Cuba has the best healthcare system in the Americas, 0% child malnutrition, 100% adult literacy, practically no homelessness...and is the most democratic country on the face of the planet.

Which is all good and superior to neo-colonial neoliberal aims...but that does not define a fundamentally different society, and reform after reform pushes it closer to capitalism and individual over bureaucratic profit-seeking.

[Spawn of Stalin]

3. What other good things came from Mao such as equality for women?
Too many to list.

Probably the biggest case of land reform in human history, around 95% of China's population were working in some form of agrarian industry at the time. Massive reduction in malnutrition, prior to the revolution famine was a fairly regular occurrence, there has only been one famine since the founding of the People's Republic. The formation of people's communes where what can basically be described as small-scale Communism was practised, and is in my opinion the only successful example of such a thing ever happening. Industrialisation made the country more productive and in turn its people more prosperous. Free education, free healthcare, free social programmes, childcare

Of course, these things did not come from Mao, they came from the Communist Party and Chinese people. Mao was the chief architect of socialist China and contrary to what many would have you believe is not looked at by MLs and Maoists as some kind of demigod. He was a great man, keyword there being "man".

And yes, political, social, and economic equality for women was achieved by the People's Republic.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Oh hey, add one more to the list....a tiny little thing called national independence.

[Red Future]

Mao said "women hold up half the sky" if I am right

[Dimitri Molotov]

You shouldn't adopt your personal political position in order to conform to what the "anarcho-communist position" or any other "official" position (not that such exists for any ideology) is on a topic. Think and research for your self and don't rely on sectarian dogma, whether its anarchist dogma or Maoist dogma.

You do either do not understand what I am saying or did not read my later post... I am not trying to conform to any kind of position on this, I mostly follow the tendencies of an ANARCHO-Communist. What kind of Anarchist would I be if all I did was follow the rest of the other Anarchists? If I was just trying to conform to the Anarcho-Communist position I could have done so easily without even being on here. If I wasn't trying to research for myself I would not be on here in the first place. Aside from the internet the only place I have to go for knowledge on the subject is my high school global class, which is complete bull shit. (Hence why I get in so many debates.) I already know everyone else's position on Mao and China, but I was not aware what the different denominations of the political left thought about him, so I came on here to research it. Also, I figured the best place to find good things about Mao would be to ask an actual Maoist, who most likely has multiple adequate arguments about the good things Mao has done. Now, with both the knowledge of his good and bad accomplishments, I can base my decision. I know plenty about the bad things Mao has done because of my horribly biased history class, and the knowledge of his good accomplishments obtained from other leftists, who honestly I will easily trust over my bullshit history class. I don't know how to make this any clearer.

[Aspiring Humanist]

I can't ever see an anarcho-communist supporting Mao. I tend to lean on the anarcho communist side myself but post-revolutionary maoist china was much better than the KMT's China.

I wouldn't vouch for Maoist China in a debate though, because at the heart of it, he was an authoritarian, and that sort of thing is what we should be fighting against.

Haters gonna hate

[Sir Comradical]

"The Chinese people made a revolution led by the CCP, the most important leader of which was Mao...It was due to this revolution that the average life expectancy of the majority Chinese rose from 35 in 1949 to 63 by 1975 in a space of less than 30 years. It was a revolution that brought unity and stability to a country that had been plagued by civil wars and foreign invasions, and a revolution that laid the foundation for China to become the equal of the great global powers. It was a revolution that carried out land reform, promoted women’s status, improved popular literacy, and eventually transformed Chinese society beyond recognition." - 'Battle for China's Past: Mao and the Cultural Revolution' by Mobo Gao

You can download the entire book here (http://www.strongwindpress.com/pdfs/EBook/The_Battle_for_Chinas_Past.pdf) and Ctrl-F for information. My gift to you. If you have the courage then you should at the very least least defend Mao from the most asinine attacks against him. So if some idiot says "he killed 1000 billion people", don't respond with "well I agree he was a monster" because then you're just pandering to capitalist propaganda.

[flobdob]

1961 isn't "late in the game", it was two years after the defeat of Batista. Fidel was in his 30's. But regardless, Fidel couldn't come out for any leftist ideology until that point. Further, Raul was a communist long before then, and he's presently the president of the Republic of Cuba.

Absolutely. Indeed, we know even further back that Fidel was reading Marx and Lenin when he was in Batista's prisons during the early 50's.

As for the achievements of the Cuban revolution, we're talking about a move from a country where the mafia and US-backed dictators shared power, where people literally wallowed in poverty. Dying as a result of parasitic infections was common, illiteracy was at 41.7%, and unemployment was widespread. In barely over 50 years this has been reversed and, in the face of a brutal blockade (estimated to have made an impact of $236.2 bn), US-funded subversion programs and literal terrorist attacks, Cuba has been improving living standards and building socialism.

China did similarly incredible things following their revolution. The experience of socialism in China and in Cuba are some of the greatest things humanity has known.

[caramelpence]

Absolutely. Indeed, we know even further back that Fidel was reading Marx and Lenin when he was in Batista's prisons during the early 50's.

This is not surprising or unusual, of course, because, in much the same way as China during the 1910s and early 1920s, there was sustained interest in Marxist ideas across the Cuban intelligentsia, especially amongst those who were attracted to Marxism through their universalist and humanist instincts, and as a result there were many intellectuals who valued Marxism and who were familiar with Marxist economics and political theory without ever being themselves Marxists or revolutionaries - the geographer and professor Antonio Nunez Jimenez is a case in point. The tendency for intellectuals to read Marxist texts and other sources of radical ideas was exacerbated by the fact that the University of Havana exhibited a lack of adequate recreational and library facilities during the 1950s as well as the fact that its academic staff was comprised of part-time teachers who did not have a developed sense of pedagogic responsibility, and so in that context it was not surprising that many students turned to political writings when there were no alternative sources of recreation available and when they were dissatisfied with the state of their formal teaching. It would, in all honesty, have been much more surprising if Castro had not read any Marxist or Communist texts whilst he was a young man because that would separate him from what the majority of Cuban students were doing at the time! What we do know is that Castro was a member of the Ortodoxos, who were certainly not Communists - that doesn't mean that Castro wasn't a Communist, but his reading of Marx and Lenin does not show he was, either.