The Left’s support of Islamic Extremists

[balaclava]

Greetings Comrades

I’d be interested to hear the views of the comrades on the below article and how the Left can justify supporting people like Fahad Ansari the man who described Anwar Al Awlaki, the man tipped to be Bin Laden’s replacement as inspirational?

The article contains is a mocked-up photograph, showing the bloody corpse of Barack Obama, accompanied by text describing the future assassination of the President of the United States.
The article was posted by Fahad Ansari, a solicitor who previously worked with the so-called Islamic Human Rights Commission, and who is now at CagePrisoners. Ansari is the man who described Anwar Al Awlaki, the man tipped to be Bin Laden’s replacement, as “inspirational (http://hurryupharry.org/2010/02/17/another-cageprisoners-awlaki-fan-attacks-sahgal/)“.

http://hurryupharry.org/2011/05/10/amnesty-partner-cageprisoners-lynches-obama/#more-52649 (http://hurryupharry.org/2011/05/10/amnesty-partner-cageprisoners-lynches-obama/#more-52649)

[Tim Finnegan]

I honestly don't have any clue what you think this is supposed to prove, but, given that you apparently read Harry's Place, I'm not holding out for hidden genius.

[balaclava]

Prove? I am not trying to prove anything.

You refer to reading Harry’s Place like it’s some kind of seedy novel! I don’t what or where Harry’s Place is, I came across the report on that site which may be true or may be false but if it is true would seem to be unarguably wrong yet supported by the Left. Yes, I have to admit a fascination by the Left’s support of a group that would have them beheaded and wonder how you reconcile that enigma?

[#FF0000]

Yes, I have to admit a fascination by the Left’s support of a group that would have them beheaded and wonder how you reconcile that enigma? Anti-imperialism. People support groups with seedier positions because they figure they're better than the dictator an invading, imperialist power would install. There's something to that, maybe.

But I'm personally inclined to disagree. Dictators installed by imperialist invaders are pretty much just as bad as the homegrown dictators. And more often than not, this kind of anti-imperialism means throwing workers under the bus.

EDIT: It's actually kind of the same reason the West supported Islamic Extremists throughout history to the point of putting most of them in power, actually! The whole "Enemy of my enemy is my friend", thing!

EDIT 2: Actually I think that's more a matter of "I actually don't give a fuck what these guys believe in as long as I'm getting my scratch".

[ComradeMan]

I'm not sure the Left does support Islamic nutcase fundamentalists and not Selafis- in Italy this is not the case after a poor Italian peaceworker was murdered by them ( a Selafi group) about a month ago.

Balaclava- please stop generalising and say who and what.

[#FF0000]

I'm not sure the Left does support Islamic nutcase fundamentalists and not Selafis- in Italy this is not the case after a poor Italian peaceworker was murdered by them ( a Selafi group) about a month ago.

Yeah. The only "islamic extremist" organization I can think of that even really has any support is maybe Hamas or Hezbollah. Even then, I think leftists see it as a thing of convenience, since "they're the ones doing the fighting".

I think now that the PFLP is back, any leftist you talk to is more likely support them. Maybe.

[Nolan]

Nobody supports Islamists per se. This is just a rightist whining point so that any discussion about imperialism in Afghanistan turns into whether you like beheadings or not.

[Jazzratt]

Even the most batshit of the anti-impie types don't give full, unconditional support to "Islamic Extremists" (ok, maybe the most batshit might but they don't really constitute "the left" in any practical sense). On the other hand the kind of groups and policies supported or upheld by the right, or at least those sections that are frightened by muslims, are really quite unsavoury.

[ComradeMan]

Even the most batshit of the anti-impie types don't give full, unconditional support to "Islamic Extremists" (ok, maybe the most batshit might but they don't really constitute "the left" in any practical sense). On the other hand the kind of groups and policies supported or upheld by the right, or at least those sections that are frightened by muslims, are really quite unsavoury.

What always makes me laugh, sardonically, is that if you scratch under the surface- far right groups and extremists Shariah law type groups have a lot in common, homophobia, obscurantism, capital and corporal punishment, intolerance... etc etc etc.... :rolleyes:

[#FF0000]

What always makes me laugh, sardonically, is that if you scratch under the surface- far right groups and extremists Shariah law type groups have a lot in common, homophobia, obscurantism, captial and corporal punishment, intolerance... etc etc etc.... :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's funny. If these fundamentalists just didn't pray towards Mecca, they and groups like the BNP could be great friends.

[Queercommie Girl]

What always makes me laugh, sardonically, is that if you scratch under the surface- far right groups and extremists Shariah law type groups have a lot in common, homophobia, obscurantism, captial and corporal punishment, intolerance... etc etc etc.... :rolleyes:

Far right groups and extremist fundies of all religions have a lot in common, not just Islam. Islam is no worse than any other religion generally speaking.

[ComradeMan]

Far right groups and extremist fundies of all religions have a lot in common, not just Islam. Islam is no worse than any other religion generally speaking.

I wasn't talking about Islam though, I was talking about fundamentalist "Shariahists". :rolleyes:

[RGacky3]

Its much more complicated than being FOR or against, almost all of us are against terrorist tacticts and against Islamic fundementalism, but we are also against imperialism and for self-determination.

If there is a racist who is being sent to prison for smoking pot, I'll fight for both him AND a leftists to be freed from prison because I don't think smoking pot should be a crime, same principle.

[Delenda Carthago]

Glenn Beck's up in this mothafucka!!! Chalifate represent.

[Thug Lessons]

TjzxYdbiLk4

[Drosophila]

I saw one member of this forum openly support Hamas. I've seen leftists elsewhere (*cough*Noam Chomsky*cough*) approve of
the actions of Hezbollah. Supposedly they'd rather live in a theocracy than in a capitalist country.

None of Islamic extremism is leftist. If Anwar al Zahiri or Osama bin Laden (if he wasn't dead) were to establish a government, it would be ultra right-wing and disastrous for all under him.

[MattShizzle]

The answer has already been covered. Leftists do agree with those people that Israel acts in a very fascist manner. We strongly disagree with the sort of government such people would want.

[#FF0000]

Supposedly they'd rather live in a theocracy than in a capitalist country.

Wrong

[Devrim]

Supposedly they'd rather live in a theocracy than in a capitalist country.

Iran, which I suppose could be described as a 'theocracy', is also a capitalist country. Forms of government and economic mode of production are not by default the same thing.

Devrim

[MuslimMarxist]

I think its obvious at this point and time that the Left and "Islamic Extremists" have the same enemy. I don't believe Islam is totally at odds with the left, certain "nutcase" groups are but the Liberation Theology trend amongst certain Islamic thinkers is compatible with many Leftist concepts. I am a faithful practicing Muslim but also am defiantly on the Left in politics and Islam doesn't hinder me in this regard, it inspires me.

[Viet Minh]

What always makes me laugh, sardonically, is that if you scratch under the surface- far right groups and extremists Shariah law type groups have a lot in common, homophobia, obscurantism, capital and corporal punishment, intolerance... etc etc etc.... :rolleyes:

Yeah the BNP are very worried about shariah law, what with the death penalty for sex offenders, no womens rights (according to them anyway) corporal punishment etc. :laugh:


I wasn't talking about Islam though, I was talking about fundamentalist "Shariahists". :rolleyes:

A lot of my Muslim friends agree that the 'extremist' version of Islam enforced by the Taleban for example, is not true Islam but almost as different as say Mormonism from Orthodox Christianity.

[MuslimMarxist]

One of the main problems with Islamophobes is that they try to put Islam into a single interpretation as if the whole Islamic world is like this. The truth is there is no typical, standard, or main stream version of Islam. The Islamic customs from one region to the next are very different. Even if both regions adhere to the same sect, the way it is practiced on the Indian sub-continent for example is totally different then how its practiced in Turkey ( even though both areas are predominantly Sunni Muslim and adherents of Hanafi Jurisprudence.) Islam absorbed local cultures and customs in a manner arguably that other religions did not.

So its nearly impossible to say what "Orthodox" or "Mainstream" Islam is or isn't.

[Drosophila]

Wrong

Of course. Hamas opposes capitalism.


Iran, which I suppose could be described as a 'theocracy', is also a capitalist country. Forms of government and economic mode of production are not by default the same thing.

I wasn't referring to Iran.

[#FF0000]

Of course. Hamas opposes capitalism.

i didn't say this



I wasn't referring to Iran.

he is still right though. theocracies can be (and are) capitalist societies.

[Drosophila]

i didn't say this


What were you accusing me of being wrong about?




he is still right though. theocracies can be (and are) capitalist societies.

No doubt. It's a common radical Islamist tactic to use anti-capitalism to
gain support from leftists. Then when they take power they establish a theocracy that conducts capitalism. Or outlaw religion and promote capitalism, like China.

[hatzel]

It's a common radical Islamist tactic to use anti-capitalism to gain support from leftists. Then when they take power they establish a theocracy that conducts capitalism. Or outlaw religion and promote capitalism, like China.

I'm going to assume that you've just expressed yourself somewhat imprecisely, and that you're not claiming that China is run by radical Islamists or whatever...because that would be awfully silly :)

[Nolan]

I'm going to assume that you've just expressed yourself somewhat imprecisely, and that you're not claiming that China is run by radical Islamists or whatever...because that would be awfully silly :)

Haven't you heard? America (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/video-gingrich-hagee-warning-us-becoming-secular-atheist-country-dominated-radical-islamists) and Britain are already run by Islamist atheists.

[agnixie]

Of course. Hamas opposes capitalism.


Half-truth at best. Hamas opposes capitalism, socialism, communism, liberalism, anarchism, and in the process blames the whole lot on TEH J00Z. Yes, even the PFLP.

[gorillafuck]

No doubt. It's a common radical Islamist tactic to use anti-capitalism to gain support from leftists. Then when they take power they establish a theocracy that conducts capitalism. Or outlaw religion and promote capitalism, like China.Why did you bring up china?

China has nothing to do with radical Islamists.


Half-truth at best. Hamas opposes capitalism, socialism, communism, liberalism, anarchism, and in the process blames the whole lot on TEH J00Z. Yes, even the PFLP.No, they don't blame everything on the Jews.

[agnixie]

No, they don't blame everything on the Jews.

Not everything, but their charter makes pretty clear that they blame those things on jews.

[Drosophila]

Why did you bring up china?

China has nothing to do with radical Islamists.

No, they don't blame everything on the Jews.


I'm going to assume that you've just expressed yourself somewhat imprecisely, and that you're not claiming that China is run by radical Islamists or whatever...because that would be awfully silly :)

It's apparent that neither of you read my post.


Or outlaw religion and promote capitalism, like China.

I brought up China because it seems to be leftist because its run by the "Communist Party of China", yet it houses hundreds of factories for multinational corporations, while outlawing all religion.

[Ismail]

I brought up China because it seems to be leftist because its run by the "Communist Party of China", yet it houses hundreds of factories for multinational corporations, while outlawing all religion.1. Very few people would see modern-day China as either leftist or progressive.
2. In China there is no "outlawing" of religion. Religion cannot be politicized and some reactionary sects that no one should support anyway (like the Falun Gong) are not allowed. It was the same in the USSR and in East European states sans Albania. The only country where religion is restricted is in the DPRK, and even there religious worship is not outlawed (they have a religiously-based blockpartei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondoist_Chongu_Party) and some religious buildings (http://sites.google.com/site/nzdprksociety/pongsu-church) and state-run organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Christian_Federation)), just strongly discouraged.

[Drosophila]

1. Very few people would see modern-day China as either leftist or progressive.

There's always the idiotic reactionary who does.


2. In China there is no "outlawing" of religion. Religion cannot be politicized and some reactionary sects that no one should support anyway (like the Falun Gong) are not allowed. It was the same in the USSR and in East European states sans Albania. The only country where religion is restricted is in the DPRK, and even there religious worship is not outlawed (they have a religiously-based blockpartei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondoist_Chongu_Party) and some religious buildings (http://sites.google.com/site/nzdprksociety/pongsu-church) and state-run organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Christian_Federation)), just strongly discouraged.

What about the crackdown on people praying outside this past Easter in China?

[Ismail]

What about the crackdown on people praying outside this past Easter in China?They were based on fears that the events would be used to oppose the CCP. As you might have heard, the CCP hasn't reacted nicely to the Arab uprisings and is therefore suspicious of any public meetings from possible opposition groups.

[freepalestine]

Half-truth at best. Hamas opposes capitalism, socialism, communism, liberalism, anarchism, and in the process blames the whole lot on TEH J00Z. Yes, even the PFLP.oh dear,here we go.and hamas is capitalist.