Good God, I at least just want the 90s to come back....

[RadioRaheem84]

Regardless of the Generation X apathy of some teens, there was a resurgence of progressive activism rebelling against the Reagan bullshit. Especially with the advent of Gingrich taking Congress.

At this point of such a right wing turn in the States, I don't even wish for the 60s and 70s, because that seems totally unreal but at least hope for a 90s progressive kick to start up again.

Everything from the angst ridden fuck society grunge to Rage Against the Machine rage!

Is anyone in here old enough to remember the 90s? I was too young to actually get involved in anything but I remember seeing my older cousins and friends older siblings get involved with stuff.

What was it like?

[bcbm]

dude we live in way cooler times, fuck the 90s

[RadioRaheem84]

dude we live in way cooler times, fuck the 90s
Really?

It seems like the youth are way less socially aware.

[Nolan]

Why do you say that?

[bcbm]

and what did the "socially aware (http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/blogs/popwrap/200809/Images/200809_can%27t-hardly-wait-10-years.jpg)" youth of the 90s get us?

i think there is just as much awareness today and we've got labor struggles heating up again, first world governments on the brink of collapse, etc

[Lenina Rosenweg]

In the US working class struggle is at a low point (but gradually picking up) although Europe has been exploding. This is largely due to the Democratic Party and liberalism.This situation in North America can't last long.The US and Canada are both on the verge of social upheavals.
I have a feeling this coming decade; 2011-2020, will more then make up for the ennui of the teens.When the explosion comes it will be like the evil twin brother of the 1930s and 1960s combined.

[heyjoe]

labor conflict is indeed heating up. Business modeled labor unions are finding out that they arent really partners with their employers and have been being used for a long time now. There is an all out effort on corporations part to crush them. Ive been doing a lot of reading of US labor history in the early 20th century, particularly the anarchists and there is a lot there that parallells what is going on now. As the top 1% take more and more and go for it all again and people awaken from their long slumber its going to get real interesting.

[Turinbaar]

The 90's in america was dominated by the idealism of bourgeois political economists like Francis Fukuyama, who in his Hegelian fashion, stated that since the end of the cold war, history had come to an end, and that there would be no more major conflict of ideology and that everyone would simply tow the american liberal democratic line. He made the notable exception of the middle east, which he condemned to eternal dictatorship in the end of history.

This attitude when applied in the society resulted in a general ignorance among americans as to all things historical. Such cultural things were substituted for by MTV and so on, while establishment thinking more or less pretended the outside world didn't exist, as best illustrated by their handling of Rwanda.

9-11 destroyed that petty illusion. The world is changing fast and only a complacent bourgeois nostalgist would want to turn back the clock.

[lines]

Regardless of the Generation X apathy of some teens, there was a resurgence of progressive activism rebelling against the Reagan bullshit. Especially with the advent of Gingrich taking Congress.

At this point of such a right wing turn in the States, I don't even wish for the 60s and 70s, because that seems totally unreal but at least hope for a 90s progressive kick to start up again.

Everything from the angst ridden fuck society grunge to Rage Against the Machine rage!

Is anyone in here old enough to remember the 90s? I was too young to actually get involved in anything but I remember seeing my older cousins and friends older siblings get involved with stuff.

What was it like?

Can you make a short list of the stuff you are referring to? Stuff like bands, or political/social oriented gatherings, certain ideologies, styles of fashion, prevailing ideas, certain movies or tv shows, and any personal observation of people you made. Just a list of stuff that somehow communicates the mentality that you are referring to.

[Magón]

I can't speak for 90s America since I hardly spent much time in America at the time, but really I don't want the 90s back either.

[bcbm]

Can you make a short list of the stuff you are referring to? Stuff like bands, or political/social oriented gatherings, certain ideologies, styles of fashion, prevailing ideas, certain movies or tv shows, and any personal observation of people you made. Just a list of stuff that somehow communicates the mentality that you are referring to.

http://i065.radikal.ru/0905/fb/db39d3d004cb.jpg

http://www.questofmonterey.org/files/Photos/Friends%20tv%20show%20%282%29.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_M2cfrX-qTqM/TF7Ur13lFNI/AAAAAAAACYo/YzOUhSbwXpM/s1600/000s7qtz.jpg

http://www.casa115.com/blog/zapatistas-thumb.jpg

[Devrim]

The 1990s were absolutely terrible years for both the working class and revolutionaries on an international level.

Devrim

[eyedrop]

Wasn't the main movement of the ninities the anti-globalization movement, which came towards the end of them. The anti-globalization movement had it's major weakness in not providing an aim, or a vision for the future. It was just against a lot of things.

[Commissar Rykov]

The 90s at least in the States was pretty shit. Mostly just wanking to Gangsterism and Bourgeoisie Decadence. I mean MTV pretty much epitomized Bourgeoisie decadence but just used a lets rebel mentality to force feed it to the youth. Most of the Youth "Rebellion" was largely manufactured by corporations who profited from it.

[Le Socialiste]

I was just a child in the 90s, but I have no wish to turn back the clock...degenerating societies, the collapse of the Soviet bloc (which I don't particularly mourn over, but its effects on the economic and geopolitical realities of its peoples are still being worked through to this day), resurgent neoliberal, capitalistic practices and policies, growing nationalism in the U.S., increasing outbreaks of wars/regional conflicts, growing faith-based fundamentalism, etc. I know I've missed some, but that alone has me thankful that we're *technically* beyond it. We may still be confronted with the products of that time, but at least we have a better grasp of where the world is heading.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I love 90s culture (indie rock was more punk than most punk music now and hip-hop was like the British invasion or the first wave of punk to me), but I'm more hopeful about the possibility of building working class fight-back today.

Really, I think the 90s can be split into two political trends. In the late 80s and early 90s there was the combination of a resurgence in social activism (still largely lead by liberal groups like NOW... except they actually protested in the streets and against bigots back then) and renewed confidence in major social change due to the fall of apartheid in South Africa. Directly, this had the effect of the "black consciousness" movement which was reflected in pop-culture in hip-hop and film. Politically, the end of apartheid also made the racial contradictions in the US even more glaring as US politicians quickly jumped up to say they supported the end of apartheid all along. So there was an increase in racial justice organizing and, of course, then the LA rebellion.

The fall of Stalinism and the end of the cold war had a contradictory effect of increaseing some optimism among regular people on the one hand, but also being confusing because it was a win for the US and because the USSR was conflated with socialism, it meant that people didn't really have a clear sense of a viable alternative.

The Zapatista uprising could probably be remembered as the start of the 2nd 90s, because it helped push away some of that post-USSR confusion in that it showed that it was clearly not "the end of history" and it was still possible to fight back. It also provided a rallying point for a lot of people who were becoming more aware of the nature of neoliberalism (like me!). There was an increase in solidarity movements with the "global south" and anti-sweatshop activism and so on which culminated in Seattle. The US labor movement was orienting towards social issues (again, Seattle) but also the immigrant freedom-rides and even mainstream union leaders were beginning to talk about the need for cross-border solidarity and immigrant organizing to push back against the effects of neoliberalism.

Generally, Labor had some horrible losses and some wins towards the end of the decade and things may have developed much differently had 9/11 never happened. I think the anti-globalization movement was already in trouble at that point and the jingoism and fear after 9/11 just knocked a movement that was already at an impasse into the ground.

Now it seems like the system is much more naked and the scale of the attacks are much different in pace and intensity. So whereas in the 90s, business could afford to ease up and cut its losses if it had to - now the capitalists have nowhere to go but increased exploitation and austerity, so it's sort of a powder keg. This is not to say that ruling class brutality automatically leads to worker movements, but the pressure is so high now that something has to give. It really seems like the future is socialism or barbarism now.

[Omsk]

It was total war on the Balkans back in the '90 so i naturally don't have any nice memories of them.

[Red_Devotchka]

well, i think looking forward and doing our best to make current years rule has more sense than getting nostalgic :p there is an italian proverb tht sarcasticly says: "it was better when it was worse". dont ask me what do they exactly mean by tht :o but it somehow suit this thread :p

[Jimmie Higgins]

On a personal note, when I was 13 or 14, these were the cultural things that had a big impact on me...

http://www.royarden.com/blog/pictures/kurt_cobain21.jpg

http://cdn.theurbandaily.com/files/2010/08/malcolm-x-fruit-of-islam-sequence.jpg

[unpopularfreedomfront]

The only good thing bout the 90's was the music :) Well, some of it anyway.

[RadioRaheem84]

I wasn't talking about the wars, the economy, the neo-liberalism, that all sucked.

I was talking about the anti-globalization movement, the rise of the indie rock and movies, The Green Party, Progressivism, Zapatista uprising, anti-society grunge rock, movie after movie after movie about progressive change from Philadelphia to Malcolm X.

I was just saying that I feel the youth and anyone in thirties as largely being apathetic these days and utterly hopeless.

Corporations have literally taken over every counter culture thing out there.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I wasn't talking about the wars, the economy, the neo-liberalism, that all sucked.

I was talking about the anti-globalization movement, the rise of the indie rock and movies, The Green Party, Progressivism, Zapatista uprising, anti-society grunge rock, movie after movie after movie about progressive change from Philadelphia to Malcolm X.

I was just saying that I feel the youth and anyone in thirties as largely being apathetic these days and utterly hopeless.

Corporations have literally taken over every counter culture thing out there.

My feeling is, and it's really just an impression, people who are in their 30s are a little more cynical because they have gone through a decade where the right carried the day despite the biggest protests of their lifetimes. They have lives at a time when young activists were more likely to get a job or intern with an NGO (probably only to become disillusioned) and then saw the decade close by putting all their hopes into a Democrat (ditto). In the Bay Area these guys are the ones who retreat into things like lifestyle politics and soft cultural nationalism or just escapism.

On top of that is the recession and since they have probably been in the workforce for 10 -12 years, they have experienced work that has gotten shittier and their prospects dwindle. I think this tends to make people more defensive and protective of their jobs - they don't want to fight, they just want to keep hanging on.

This is probably not a permanent state of things for "Gen Y" or whatever they call it, but because of their experiences and layers of false premises ("GWBush country" is just inherently conservative/activism doesn't change things) on top of the economic situation, I don't think we will really see them leading the charge.

However, I disagree about younger people. Already we have seen a broad (international even), if not focused, fight-back against education austerity... it's not just the big elite schools or the "Berkeleys" either, it's high schools and community colleges and colleges in more remote areas. Their vantage point is different than people who've been in the workforce for a little while - they are not trying to hold on, they are seeing their future getting slashed and burned before they can graduate (both job prospects and ability to complete their education). The LGBT marches I have been on were incredibly youthful (and diverse) whereas in the recent past they were basically hardened older activists who have been fighting since the last upsurge in LGBT activism more than a decade ago. Look at the images from Wisconsin, the average age was probably 25 inside the capital building - even high school students left school and took over a major street as they marched to the occupation.

IMO, the kids are all right. I think they had a different interpretation of Obama's betrayals - I think rather than learning the mistaken lesson of the last decade, you can't change things no matter what, they are learning you have to take matters into your own hands and that adults are morons and they system doesn't make sense. It's not class or socialist consciousness, but I think it's at least a similar sentiment as there was in the early 90s when people realized that rather than the American Dream they were getting downward mobility.

How will this era be reflected in pop or youth culture - too early to say. However, "pop" music for Gen Y was a bunch of Ambercrobe-Finch frat boys or pastic blonde conformity machines, whereas really young people now are being drawn to Lada Gaga who flaunts non-conformity (regardless if people here think it's manufactured or whatnot) with "normal" standards and draws-in her fans with stories about standing up to bigots or bullies or doubters. The music industry has no idea what the hell it's doing right now and this has created a niche for more local bands; Hollywood also hasn't a clue and is resorting to gimmicks like 3-D (and now moving chairs) to keep their revenues up, so I think we're not long for a cultural shift to reflect a different attitude and mood in society.

[Ballyfornia]

Really?

It seems like the youth are way less socially aware.

I'm 15 and i totally agree with you on that.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm not sure what your musical tastes are, but you might like this corporate-sponsored doc :lol: about the garage scene which around here is getting probably as big as the more traditional punk scene and even encroaching on Indie-level popularity for some bands.

p3Ahgj_XYC0
I'm a booster for bay area garage rock, so I don't care that it's sponsored by Ray-Ban and Vice and shit. If it helps me to continue to see Ty Segall and Nobunny at 924 Gilman street, then so be it until we smash capitalism.

RIP Eagle Tavern.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The 1990's were marked by one of the biggest tidal waves of capitalist triumphalism and reactionary bullshit in modern history, and it affected everything from the reigning ideology to culture to workers struggles (or the lack of them).

[Jimmie Higgins]

Here's something I remember being said at beginning of the 1990s: "The 90s are going to make the 60s look like the 50s". I think it captures a sense of the mood at that time that we were due for something different. Obviously, it never panned out for that decade - maybe it was the Ecstasy, but people really thought the 90s were going to be the new 60s.

There was a lot of LSD and weed and bad hair, but there was only one major riot in a US city and only one mass beating of protesters in front of national media :P

[Devrim]

The 1990's were marked by one of the biggest tidal waves of capitalist triumphalism and reactionary bullshit in modern history, and it affected everything from the reigning ideology to culture to workers struggles (or the lack of them).

This is absolutely right. The 80s were a period of massive working class defeat, but at least the class was fighting, working class struggle was at such a low level in the 90s that at times it almost seemed to be non-existent.


I was talking about the anti-globalization movement, the rise of the indie rock and movies, The Green Party, Progressivism, Zapatista uprising, anti-society grunge rock, movie after movie after movie about progressive change from Philadelphia to Malcolm X.

But what about the working class?


I was just saying that I feel the youth and anyone in thirties as largely being apathetic these days and utterly hopeless.

I find it utterly amazing that anybody can say that in a period where we have only just witnessed a mass revolt in of workers and youth in Tunisia, and movements in Egypt and Tunisia where the working class played a massively important role.

Devrim

[Rebelwithcause]

I would think the 60s was where people were more people were politically active.

[Jimmie Higgins]

This is absolutely right. The 80s were a period of massive working class defeat, but at least the class was fighting, working class struggle was at such a low level in the 90s that at times it almost seemed to be non-existent. I generally agree with what you are saying, but at the end of the 90s in the US there were some successes and return to struggle after some bitter industrial defeats in the mid-90s. In Latin America there was also a rise in struggle which continued through the early part of the 21st century but hit a reformist wall.

[Robespierre Richard]

http://exiledonline.com/90-reasons-to-hate-the-1990s-an-exile-classic/

You should probably re-read this every couple of months.

[Red_Devotchka]

The only good thing bout the 90's was the music :) Well, some of it anyway.


can't argue with tht :p

[Rooster]

The problem with the 90s was that much of the traditional working class associations had been broken up by the late 70s and 80s, in America and the UK at least. So you had this whole generation of apathetic kids who formed oppositionist movements but they lacked the mass working class ideology of the previous generations. Much of it was fuelled by corporate culture just as much as the 80s. The only good thing about the 90s was the music, really. It's comparable to the counter culture of the 60s becoming the new elite corporate culture of the 70s. The anti-corporate and oppositionist figure heads of the early 90s had become sanitised and consumed by the late 90s.

Oh man. I still feel ill when I think about the fashion.

[Le Socialiste]

One of the most prominent memories I have of the 90s was during the build up to the Gore vs. Bush election (okay, so not exactly 90s but close enough). I was still in elementary school at the time, and all the teachers had given us students a piece of paper with pictures of Bush on one side and Gore on the other. I was all geared up over Gore (my immediate family are Democrats), when a friend of mine suddenly pointed out that I couldn't vote for him because he was a "communist". Needless to say, 10-11 years later (a decade of wars and economic ruin later), I'm borderline Anarchist (not quite)! :lol:

...And the only thing I remember fashion and music-wise are bell bottoms and this horrid single:

NHozn0YXAeE

:rolleyes:

[gorillafuck]

sT0g16_LQaQc

[Aurorus Ruber]

http://exiledonline.com/90-reasons-to-hate-the-1990s-an-exile-classic/

You should probably re-read this every couple of months.

Well to be fair, I don't think this thread is saying the 90s were great, just that they were better than what we have now.

[KC]

This is absolutely right. The 80s were a period of massive working class defeat, but at least the class was fighting, working class struggle was at such a low level in the 90s that at times it almost seemed to be non-existent.

That's because the unions and worker organizations were busted under Reagan and then the economy saw a resurgence under Clinton. Destroyed workers organizations put a damper on any possibility of organization and an upswing in the economy subverted any desire to do so (though it was much more profound than a simple "upswing," it was an advance on a loan that we are now paying for).

Everyone that was active in the 90's was covered by Higgins' post, everyone that is 18 and under right now probably is the same way because they haven't experienced the backwardness of the past 15 years like the 20-30 crowd has. I think this is why we (20-30's) are most optimistic, because we lived through the stagnation of the Clinton years and are now seeing workers and others finally start to move.

[Ismail]

The 1990's, as others have said, was pretty much a decade of how capitalism was awesome and how socialism was a "proven failure." I will agree that the music was marginally better. You have to remember that we tend to filter out terrible songs in retrospect.

But the 90's had terrible music just as we do today. Hanson ring a bell?

And Vanilla Ice.

And the Spice Girls.

And Britney Spears.

On the upside the 90's had Scatman John, so yay.

This reminds me, I was looking up old Usenet posts, and this one from May 1993 stuck out:

Operator: I'm sorry, we can't do that. Our records indicate Bardejov and Prague are in the same country.

Student: Bardejov and Prague are no longer in the same country.

Operator: Our records indicate that Bardejov and Prague are in Czechoslovakia.

Student: But Czechoslovakia no longer exists. The country split into two on January 1. Bardejov is in Slovakia and Prague is in another country.

Operator: I'm sorry. You can't use this particular service. According to our records, Bardejov and Prague are both located in the same country.

Student: YOUR RECORDS ARE WRONG. THE COUNTRY SPLIT. I WAS IN BRATISLAVA FOR THE CELEBRATION.

Operator: I'm sorry. Your party has to be in a different country for you to use this service.

"FYI, you can't use Sprint's calling card service in either country. There is not even an access code to get dial tone. After the MCI incident, we wondered what the Sprint operator would say.

My guess: 'We're sorry. We don't accept calling card requests originating from a Communist country.'"And from a December 26, 1991 post:

One of the many lovely and beneficent effects of the sudden and glorious blow up of the former Soviet Union is the transformation of former global bullies like Fidel Castro from exporters of terror and revolution to isolated crackpot holdovers from the glory days of Stalinism withering on the vine of historical nostalgia. Fidel, as the following wire service story illustrates, is now barely able to hold on to what he has, let alone dispatch troops to fight for international socialism in Africa and Latin America as in the good old days.

Note that among his draconian and loonie cost cutting measures he is limiting the use of Cuban taxis to trips to hospitals and funerals. Poor as the people are in Camp Castro I'll bet they'd come up with the money for a one way taxi ride for the Maximum Leader to either one...preferably the latter. May Cuba soon be free, and may she use her freedom well.

Castro Wants To Deal With the New Russia

Cuban President Fidel Castro wants to establish full relations with the republics that used to constitute the Soviet Union, the official Cuban news agency Prensa Latina quoted him as saying Monday. The end of the Soviet Union "hurts and saddens all of us" because of its long friendship with Cuba, Castro said, adding that he sought the "greatest political and economic stability" for the constituent republics.

[...]

The Soviet Union and its client states supplied Cuba with virtually all its petroleum and 85% of the island's other imported goods for most of 3 decades. The end of Soviet patronage has plunged Cuba into crisis.

[...]

After more than a year of rationing, Cuba announced Friday even harsher energy-saving measures that could move tens of thousands of factory workers into farm jobs. The measures include strict electricity rationing, a cutback in TV broadcasting, turning off street lights and air conditioning, closing movies and restaurants and limiting taxis to taking people to hospitals and funerals. Castro reaffirmed his determination Sunday to keep Cuba on the socialist path and rejected the notion that capitalism could resolve Third World problems.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The 90's sucked big time. Not only was it one of the worst decades, if not THE worst decade for working-class struggle, but it was also the worst decade for horror films. Not much connection there, except for the fact that communist politics and horror films are my two nerdy interests.

Now I'm living in times that are bearing witness to a still small but significant and growing fight-back against austerity, working class mobilizations, and transnational popular movements in the middle east, and a resurgence in really good, independent horror. So yeah, fuck the 90's.

ps 90's music sucked

[Devrim]

I generally agree with what you are saying, but at the end of the 90s in the US there were some successes and return to struggle after some bitter industrial defeats in the mid-90s. In Latin America there was also a rise in struggle which continued through the early part of the 21st century but hit a reformist wall.

I think that when you try to take an international overview there are alway individual events that stand out in particular countries. That said as far as I am aware there weren't massive labour struggles in the US in the mid 90s. Yes, there may have been small struggles that even won (it would be good if you could give some examples), but I don't think there was anything that could be said to have broken the tendency.

With regards to the events in Latin America, I am not exactly sure what you are talking about, but the impression that I get from your earlier posts is that you are referring more to peasants' than workers' movements.


That's because the unions and worker organizations were busted under Reagan and then the economy saw a resurgence under Clinton. Destroyed workers organizations put a damper on any possibility of organization and an upswing in the economy subverted any desire to do so (though it was much more profound than a simple "upswing," it was an advance on a loan that we are now paying for).

Not everything is about America. I would imagine that the massive defeats suffered in the mid-80s by the working class internationally played perhaps maybe just a tiny minute role even if of course the entire international period was obviously mainly determined by one industrial dispute in the USA.

Devrim

[Hexen]

The 90s was a decade where Capitalism "won" and now the world is getting worse because of it.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

IMO the early 1990s were the high point of bourgeois culture and hegemony. The angst-driven rage which drove grunge music and early rap was in part anger at the lack of any cohesive social critique of currently existing power structures (ie Capitalism) that made sense at the time.

Think of Grunge music, or the other "underground" music of the era. None of it offered an internally consistent social critique, it was just angry at the consumerist narcissism combined with jingoistic triumphalism. There were some like Rage Against the Machine, but they were more the exception than the rule.

The music scene certainly wasn't what it was in the 60s or 70s. On the contrary, the music seemed to be bemoaning the utter failure of the past "Revolutionary" generation (the hippie generation) to construct anything lasting of value. All it produced were a few ephemeral gains for peace and a little more social expression. There was no equality, ethnic groups still squabbled, materialistic corruption was still rampant, and there were more nuclear weapons than there ever was during the "flower power" era. I think the people in the 90s were exhausted with the old quest for change and revolution against the weight of new wealth and technological innovation, and so abandoned the old ideals in favor of nihilism and anger. So for me the 90s represents on the one hand American triumphalism with a sort of "Searching" by those discontented for something new to catch their attention. Hence all the angst in that era.

At least in 2011 is a revolutionary year! :cool:

As for music ... Justin Beiber vs N Sync, whose more of a corporate-created record shill? I don't know whether the 90s has the current day beat on that competition or not :D

[Devrim]

IMO the early 1990s were the high point of bourgeois culture and hegemony. The angst-driven rage which drove grunge music and early rap was in part anger at the lack of any cohesive social critique of currently existing power structures (ie Capitalism) that made sense at the time.

I don't quite understand why many people are trying to relate this issue to the music business.

The nineties was a great period for my football team. So what?

Devrim

[maskerade]

I miss 2pac. And the kids cartoons were much better (or maybe i've just gotten older?)

But like Devrim said, the uprisings we are seeing now beats most social movements - or generally the lack of them - in the 90s.

Though I get the feeling that the world will become a lot worse before it gets better

[RadioRaheem84]

But I was mostly talking about the general apathy in the United States.

I felt that during the 90s, the youth, especially college students, were more socially aware of the mass consumerism, globalization, and cynical toward government/society.

You had people not putting up with the racism from the cops and rioting in the streets.

So I understand that things are looking much more exciting from a revolutionary standpoint, abroad, but I was specifically talking about the United States.

[Thirsty Crow]

I don't quite understand why many people are trying to relate this issue to the music business.

The nineties was a great period for my football team. So what?

Devrim

Well, it seems to me that all this talk of decades can relate to culture and social and political issues, so it would make sense to focus on the music business since it is an important factor in forming popular culture of a given period. Granted, people should also remember the first aspect, social-political.

[Tim Finnegan]

I stumbled across an article yesterday which talks about some of the contrasts between the '90s and 2000s, specifically in the context of radical (or "radical") public intellectuals: Cult Stud Mugged: Why We Should Stop Worrying and Learn To Love a Hip English Professor (http://dissentmagazine.org/online.php?id=440). Might be of interest.

[Nolan]

No, the cartoons from the 90s sucked. Wasn't that when there was a whole lot of "kid" versions of other cartoons?

And politically it sucked. When the Soviet Union fell there was a shitload of flag-waving, though people tell me that lasted only like two weeks (better than Osama's killing) and people basically forgot about nearly a century of Cold War.

The academic neoliberal gloating is still going on.

[ar734]

Wanting to return to some idealistic past is a reactionary attitude.

[synthesis]

Wanting to return to some idealistic past is a reactionary attitude.
Fuck, that's basically all I was going to say here. Political nostalgia in general is incompatible with Marxism and historical materialism. That said, I think it's easy for anyone in their twenties to romanticize their youth and thus the period in which it took place.

[L.A.P.]

fuck the 80's nostalgia we have now, I want the 90s!

[synthesis]

fuck the 80's nostalgia we have now, I want the 90s!

Don't worry, that'll come soon enough. My hypothesis is that it goes in cycles of 25 years or so, when something ceases to be played out and instead becomes "retro," as it appeals to the nostalgia of people in their late 20's or 30's and then "trickles down" to teenagers and such.

[Agent Ducky]

I'm 15 and I agree that the people around me are sooo dumb and clueless it's really frustrating O_O. And I'm at the school with the smart people. It's scary.

Anyways, I don't quite know if the youth of the 90s were more socially aware, but it seems like anything could be better than now =/ ... I was hoping my generation would be the new teens of the 60s. All revolutionary and activist and shiz >.<

[Rafiq]

Let's face it, class struggle took a blow because.... Because of the dismantlement of the soviet union. Nothing more to it really. And its sad, its sad how class struggle was backed up by the fact that the soviet union, the eastern block existed. Think about it.

[Rafiq]

The 90's were disgusting. The only opposition to capitalism were a bunch of chomskyan idealist new era anarchists and hippies.

Nothing like the Badass anarchists of the sixties, seventies though.

The thought of that decade makes me want to barf track suit light blue and pink gym clothes VOMIT.

[Chicxulub]

The 1990s were absolutely terrible years for both the working class and revolutionaries on an international level.

Devrim


2000-2010 was OH so much better! I think communists actually got a single victory that decade!

the 90s were bad, but to say it like we live in better times is typical naive suburbanite speaking, and shows the out of touch reality many of todays so-called "leftists" have with the working class.

things are much worse for the poor than 20 years ago.

[RadioRaheem84]

The 90's were disgusting. The only opposition to capitalism were a bunch of chomskyan idealist new era anarchists and hippies.


Considering that you're pretty much right, it's way better then the apathetic youth we have now. There was a bit of an upsurge during the run up to the Iraq War but died down and totally capitulated to Obama.

I still do not get how you guys do not see that besides the cynicism of the anti-consumerist counter-culture, the youth and working adults in their twenties and thirties were more socially aware of the world around them.

The years 2001-2009, there was a huge emphasis on glam to distract the youth and young working adults.

Rappers traded in their Dickies for Gucci, Punk rock chicks were attending fashion shows and carrying Louis V. bags, the media was focused on the lives of socialites, celebrities, and royalty. Every college graduate wanted to go into Investment banking or consulting or thought that they would be living like a pauper.

It was as if the 80s had come back and neo-yuppies were the norm on TV.

The recession curbed this a bit but it seems to be back full stride.

Now even being a social democrat is being a radical these days. Progressive = far left. :rolleyes:

The situation is looking good overseas for radical change, but I am strictly speaking of the US.

[Devrim]

2000-2010 was OH so much better! I think communists actually got a single victory that decade!

the 90s were bad, but to say it like we live in better times is typical naive suburbanite speaking, and shows the out of touch reality many of todays so-called "leftists" have with the working class.

Throughout the last decade there was a slow but clear rise in the level of class struggle. That is not to say that we live in 'better times' indeed for the vast majority things are, as you say, much worse today. This is a result of the capitalist crisis. However, the working class is slowly showing a return to struggle, and for communists this is surely important.

Devrim

[Chimurenga.]

http://i065.radikal.ru/0905/fb/db39d3d004cb.jpg

http://www.questofmonterey.org/files/Photos/Friends%20tv%20show%20%282%29.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_M2cfrX-qTqM/TF7Ur13lFNI/AAAAAAAACYo/YzOUhSbwXpM/s1600/000s7qtz.jpg

http://www.casa115.com/blog/zapatistas-thumb.jpg


All miserable failures, amirite?

[Astarte]

The only good thing bout the 90's was the music :) Well, some of it anyway.

Lots of good video games too, namely:
http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-UserFiles/00-00-42-87-57-Attached+Files/3175.final_2D00_fantasy_2D00_6_2D00_300x261.jpg
and
http://lparchive.org/Shining-Force-2/Update%2014/41-SF2_794.png
can't beat 16 bit rpgs...

But really, besides that, the 1990's sucked pretty hard.

[Agent Ducky]

I miss 2pac. And the kids cartoons were much better (or maybe i've just gotten older?)

But like Devrim said, the uprisings we are seeing now beats most social movements - or generally the lack of them - in the 90s.

Though I get the feeling that the world will become a lot worse before it gets better

The cartoons were definitely better. =] there's almost a consensus on that. Lol.

[Le Socialiste]

Not only was it one of the worst decades, if not THE worst decade for working-class struggle, but it was also the worst decade for horror films.


I take it you weren't a fan of Scream, then?

http://www.papermag.com/uploaded_images/barrymore_scream.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fFXxvdqHZNg/TZ5YVUm1WnI/AAAAAAAACjU/w7rAS9x5T0k/s1600/scream-2-1.jpg
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/news/00017148.jpg

[Pirate Utopian]

Apart from a few cartoons and some rap (both of which are being done better nowadays) the 90s were pretty lame.

[Public Domain]

All the 90's did for me was get me hooked on Pokemon and Bill Nye the Science Guy.

I certainly don't want to see 90's-era text-only websites returning. Running on Netscape...

The 90's didn't succeed in much, so I don't think it's a good thing to look back on. If we want to copy those years then we'll absolutely be int he same boat for decades to come.

[RadioRaheem84]

Jncos!

[Os Cangaceiros]

I take it you weren't a fan of Scream, then?

I hate Scream.

The two best 90's horror films are probably either "Premutos: Der Gefallen Engel" (German zombie gore film) or "Ravenous", a film about cannibals in the Sierra Nevadas during the 19th century.

[Os Cangaceiros]

All miserable failures, amirite?

pfft, yeah, only if you consider a show that ran for 10 seasons and had the fourth most watched season finale of all time to be a failure.

Good ol' "Friends". Still waitin' for the movie.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Considering that you're pretty much right, it's way better then the apathetic youth we have now. There was a bit of an upsurge during the run up to the Iraq War but died down and totally capitulated to Obama.

I still do not get how you guys do not see that besides the cynicism of the anti-consumerist counter-culture, the youth and working adults in their twenties and thirties were more socially aware of the world around them.

The years 2001-2009, there was a huge emphasis on glam to distract the youth and young working adults.

Rappers traded in their Dickies for Gucci, Punk rock chicks were attending fashion shows and carrying Louis V. bags, the media was focused on the lives of socialites, celebrities, and royalty. Every college graduate wanted to go into Investment banking or consulting or thought that they would be living like a pauper.

It was as if the 80s had come back and neo-yuppies were the norm on TV.

The recession curbed this a bit but it seems to be back full stride.

Now even being a social democrat is being a radical these days. Progressive = far left. :rolleyes:

The situation is looking good overseas for radical change, but I am strictly speaking of the US.

I grew up during the 90's, and even though I was not politically aware at that time, I still have a clear view of what the decade was like. I remember the cultural trends very well. And I honestly do not see what you're talking about at all. Not. At. All.

Especially this:



Rappers traded in their Dickies for Gucci, Punk rock chicks were attending fashion shows and carrying Louis V. bags, the media was focused on the lives of socialites, celebrities, and royalty. Every college graduate wanted to go into Investment banking or consulting or thought that they would be living like a pauper.

When you speak of the 90's, are we thinking of the same decade? The same decade that brought us Ja Rule, Green Day and the obsessive Princess Di coverage? And the coming tech boom, which every prospective capitalist was salivating over?

[RadioRaheem84]

I grew up during the 90's, and even though I was not politically aware at that time, I still have a clear view of what the decade was like. I remember the cultural trends very well. And I honestly do not see what you're talking about at all. Not. At. All.

Especially this:



When you speak of the 90's, are we thinking of the same decade? The same decade that brought us Ja Rule, Green Day and the obsessive Princess Di coverage? And the coming tech boom, which every prospective capitalist was salivating over?

It's because I grew up in the 2000s and noticed the quick shift change among a lot of college kids from caring about social justice (seeing my cousins who were politically active in the 90s) to caring mostly about signing up with the first Investment Bank or consulting firm that handpicked them. The rest were off to NGOs or non-profits that promoted market based solutions to nearly every social ill.

Most of what you wrote about seemed to have come about at the tail end of the 90s

[RadioRaheem84]

I hate Scream.

The two best 90's horror films are probably either "Premutos: Der Gefallen Engel" (German zombie gore film) or "Ravenous", a film about cannibals in the Sierra Nevadas during the 19th century.

Horror snob. No just kidding.

But damn son, those are some fucked up films.

[Os Cangaceiros]

If there were any justice in the world, Ravenous would be a modern classic. That was a great film that deserves much wider viewership.

[Turinbaar]

I will agree that the music was marginally better.

No...just no.

Artistic culture in general took a complete nosedive when the 90's came about, and its only gotten worse since then.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think that when you try to take an international overview there are alway individual events that stand out in particular countries.[quote]I am talking about trends and it is false to say that in the US, the 1990s were the same as the 1980s which can be unequivocably called a decade of major defeat for US workers. The 1990s are not the same and saw the trend change and begin to reverse. Surely you don't think that the Teamserster Union leadership would have joined in social-issue marches at the end of the decade if there hadn't been some kind of change in the labor movement that forced them to take a more aggressive stance.

[QUOTE]That said as far as I am aware there weren't massive labour struggles in the US in the mid 90s. Yes, there may have been small struggles that even won (it would be good if you could give some examples), but I don't think there was anything that could be said to have broken the tendency.UPS strike, the Justice for Janitors strikes, while not massive, were inspiring and began to turn the tide of the ruling class offensive - it took 9/11 for those movements to retreat. I was working on a campaign of immigrant farm-workers at the time and we had a big action planed for September 2001, but after the twin towers the worker's committee literally decided to call it off for fear of jingoism or just general craziness because of the mood in the country.

But I didn't argue that the late 1990s were a major turning point, only that in the US, there was a shift and an uptake in struggle and increased movement among both the labor rank and file as well as at the top of the unions.


With regards to the events in Latin America, I am not exactly sure what you are talking about, but the impression that I get from your earlier posts is that you are referring more to peasants' than workers' movements.OMG, you are soooo smart. Zapitistas were not a workers movement. You got me there! Except I'm not talking about that.

So I guess there was not change in Latin American politics at the end of the 1990s, no labor struggles, no factory seizures in Argentina? I guess I made that up.


Not everything is about America.Really, I think you are full of shit there. Everything actually is about America where people speak american and are provincial like me and if only I could be as sophisticated as comrade stick up his ass, Dervrim.:rolleyes:

Obviously us American workers aren't real workers and don't know nothin about the world, is that drink nice enough you boss? Please edjumicate me boss.

I wasn't talking about the international scene as any 5th grader taking a reading comprehension test could have observed from my post. Christ, your elitist tone and bullshit bores me.


I would imagine that the massive defeats suffered in the mid-80s by the working class internationally played perhaps maybe just a tiny minute role even if of course the entire international period was obviously mainly determined by one industrial dispute in the USA.

DevrimI is so american centric, yes sir.

Can't even agree with you without getting a bunch of condescension in return. I get enough of that from the bullshit yuppies I have to serve at work who all treat me like a provincial idiot too. So I'm done with your obnoxious shit.

Too bad because you make good points sometimes, but it comes in such a shitty package.

[Chimurenga.]

pfft, yeah, only if you consider a show that ran for 10 seasons and had the fourth most watched season finale of all time to be a failure.

Good ol' "Friends". Still waitin' for the movie.

It was more or less a swipe at JNCO's and the Zapatistas.


No...just no.

Artistic culture in general took a complete nosedive when the 90's came about, and its only gotten worse since then.

What would the world had been like without Hanson and the Backstreet Boys????



This thread should probably be moved to Chit-Chat.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Fuck Nirvana


Qae4TE1Svrc

[black magick hustla]

the only good thing that came out of the 90s was hip hop and black metal

[Robespierre Richard]

I was telling Ismail that the part in Russian history between when Yeltsin lost nearly all political power (via debt default) and when Putin became a strongman were pretty worthy culturally (too bad that I was like 9-10 at the time). So like 1999-2000ish. Alt rock and Detsl (the least shitty rapper Russia has had) were actually really big at the time and no one cared about nationalism except for egging the US embassy for the whole Yugoslavia thing. Politically it was sorta ok too, CPRF won elections and were cracking down on Yeltsin's shenanigans until the siloviki told them to stop. I'm thinking of becoming post-ironic about that period of history (via drinking Pepsi, listening to indie rock/odd futures, not caring about anything).

In conclusion, Pepsi, Pager, MTV.

[Franz Fanonipants]

basically fuck every decade.

[myownminerva]

Really?

It seems like the youth are way less socially aware.

I believe the youth are just more distracted. While there are certainly more resources and information available for the youth of today, it seems a lot of them spend time mindlessly browsing Facebook instead of taking advantage of the vast amounts of information made available through the web. Part of it, in my opinion, is due to kids not learning how to study and learn but instead only learning how to memorize while in school.

[Tim Finnegan]

Artistic culture in general...
Is an absurd and meaningless category. :p


the only good thing that came out of the 90s was hip hop and black metal
You misspelled "sludge" there, boyo. http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/mischief.gif

[L.A.P.]

Umm really? No recognition of Nirvana? You hipsters fail!

[Franz Fanonipants]

Umm really? No recognition of Nirvana? You hipsters fail!

uncle tupelo > nirvana

[Rusty Shackleford]

u6-NHK-GzwU