Raped Girl Has to Pay Her School.

[MattShizzle]

link (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cheerleader-must-compensate-school-that-told-her-to-clap-rapist-2278522.html)

OK, I live in the US but this makes me want to see someone nuke the US into 0 population.

[Olentzero]

I grew up in the US, don't live there anymore, and this makes me want to see a socialist revolution that builds a society where high school athletes aren't taught to think they can get away with whatever they want to, and students aren't told to sit down and shut up because they're on a team.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

The typical bullshit one hears about sports,and athletes, in the U.S.I can't even describe how I feel for the girl.

Society needs to get its head around demilitarization (sports is the civic version of war) and around what "masculinity" actually means (oppression and violence).

Another tragedy spurred forward by the capitalist system and the ideology it fosters.

[Le Socialiste]

This has me seething. This is yet another example of American society reinforcing old perceptions concerning how one's sex determines social roles. This girl was assaulted and raped, and she is the one bearing the brunt of that act's consequences. Our understandings of what constitutes "masculine" or "feminine" behavior can be adequately summed up as products of a culture that glorifies rigid gender roles. Ugh...:cursing:

[Optiow]

What kind of bullshit is this? How can people be so arrogant and sexist? He raped her...and she has to pay for that?

My sympathies to the girl. If I were her I would not have cheered the fuckwit either.

[Olentzero]

Well, to set the record perfectly straight, she has to pay court costs and/or damages for the 'frivolous' lawsuit brought against the school for expelling her from the cheerleading team because she refused to cheer for her rapist. The court's argument is that she gave up her right to free speech by joining the cheerleading squad in the first place.

The whole thing is a steaming load of shit in any case. First we have the whole mantle of invulnerability surrounding high school (and university) sports. Their ability to play and draw the attention of boosters - to say nothing of scouts from sports teams - is considered so important that nothing should stand in the way of that. So rape charges get dropped in order to keep a good player on the court. As an aside, I wonder how many of the people who supported the charges getting dropped also wanted to see Michael Vick strung up from the nearest streetlight?

Then, of course, there's the whole 'blame the victim' culture. Same thing that led an entire Texas community to unite in blaming an 11-year-old victim of gang rape (http://socialistworker.org/2011/03/24/blaming-an-11-year-old-victim), saying she was 'asking for it' by dressing older than her age and hanging out with teenagers. Like as not it was also argued that the cheerleader in this case shouldn't have been at a house party with a bunch of horny high school boys.

Finally, there is also the chilling effect this court decision has on the right of free speech for students in school. This isn't the first time, either; I remember one case of a high school women's basketball player getting a heap of shit for refusing to face the flag during the national anthem right after the start of the war in Iraq. Same argument was used - she's on a school team, so she speaks for the school. No dissent allowed.

Utter bullshit, all of it.

[Hexen]

Then, of course, there's the whole 'blame the victim' culture. Same thing that led an entire Texas community to unite in blaming an 11-year-old victim of gang rape (http://socialistworker.org/2011/03/24/blaming-an-11-year-old-victim), saying she was 'asking for it' by dressing older than her age and hanging out with teenagers. Like as not it was also argued that the cheerleader in this case shouldn't have been at a house party with a bunch of horny high school boys.

I believe that the victim blaming culture is a another manifestation of the Tu Quoque Fallacy (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tu_quoque) which is the same tactic that is actually taught from child birth which kids usually point fingers at someone else and say "s/he did it! s/he did it" to avoid taking responsibility and suffering the consequence for it.

This is carried on to adult hood which they use this same tactic to blame others for their own problems (The subject matter being rape victims) so they'll go unpunished so they'll end up committing the same crimes over and over again knowingly they'll never get caught if they keep using that tactic...

All this traces back to Individualism which is the main basis of capitalism.

[hatzel]

I believe that the victim blaming culture is a another manifestation of the Tu Quoque Fallacy (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tu_quoque) which is the same tactic that is actually taught from child birth which kids usually point fingers at someone else and say "s/he did it! s/he did it" to avoid taking responsibility and suffering the consequence for it.

This is carried on to adult hood which they use this same tactic to blame others for their own problems (The subject matter being rape victims) so they'll go unpunished so they'll end up committing the same crimes over and over again knowingly they'll never get caught if they keep using that tactic...

Having, through sheer coincidence, posted this one in reactionary chatter the other day, I feel I can zip in again and say I think it's more likely to be something to do with the just-world phenomenon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_phenomenon). I mean, it's potentially more the other way, more to do with "this won't happen to me because I won't do anything to 'deserve' it" rather than "I'll be able to do this and shift the blame to avoid punishment," perhaps...that is to say, it's not necessarily a result of selfish egoism, as you seem to think so, but a result of various insecurities and fears.

An interesting study referenced on the Wikipedia article:


In another study, female and male subjects were told two versions of a story about an interaction between a woman and a man. Both variations were exactly the same, except at the very end the man raped the woman in one and in the other he proposed marriage. In both conditions, both female and male subjects viewed the woman's (identical) actions as inevitably leading to the (very different) results.
Seems to apply in these cases of blaming the actions of the individual for what happens to them, which can only be done after the result of the actions is known. In that respect, it's just part of the hindsight bias.


All this traces back to Individualism which is the main basis of capitalism.

I'd debate that statement, given how it's kind of a joke, but this is hardly the thread in which to do that...

[Tim Finnegan]

This may be contentious, but would I be right in assuming that odds are good that the girl in question was also a person of colour? The charm of the "scary black man rapes innocent flower of white womanhood" narrative is usually too much for a reactionary judicial system to resist, and is only slightly more popular than the "slutty black/Latina/otherwise-non-white woman totally had it coming" narrative.

[The Man]

Once in a while, this type of complete bullshit ends up in the news. A few weeks ago, wasn't there a story about how a girl got in trouble for refusing to marry her rapist?

It's a very crazy world we live in.


OK, I live in the US but this makes me want to see someone nuke the US into 0 population

But I don't think that means you should kill a majority of us.

[MattShizzle]

I did overreact a bit but this sort of thing pisses me off. I do wish someone would shoot the SC justices Thomas, Scalia and the 2 Bush appointees. I really, really really hate the political right.

[TC]

More evidence that cheerleading is definitely not a sport and should not be regarded as such (as a way of avoiding title ix requirements to fund sports for female students) but recognized instead as a sexist side line athletic and beauty demonstration in support of sports.

[lines]

This may be contentious, but would I be right in assuming that odds are good that the girl in question was also a person of colour? The charm of the "scary black man rapes innocent flower of white womanhood" narrative is usually too much for a reactionary judicial system to resist, and is only slightly more popular than the "slutty black/Latina/otherwise-non-white woman totally had it coming" narrative.

I'm pretty sure this story has nothing to do with race, it's clearly about sexism or at least that's what it seems like based on the information I have seen thus far.

[Tim Finnegan]

I'm pretty sure this story has nothing to do with race, it's clearly about sexism or at least that's what it seems like based on the information I have seen thus far.
I'm not sure that any story involving at least one people of colour, and the rapist was a person of colour, can be said to have "nothing to do with race". It may not be the central issue, but it'll be in there.

[lines]

The color of the rapist isn't relevant though.

[Tim Finnegan]

The color of the rapist isn't relevant though.
In the United States? Are you kidding me?

[lines]

In the United States? Are you kidding me?

He only got 2 years of probation for the rape, Im not sure what his race has to do with anything.

[Zav]

And why do Americans still think that America (as they call it, though it could also mean Greenland or Chile) is the greatest country in the world? The ignorance (and/or arrogance) of that society is astounding.

[Tim Finnegan]

He only got 2 years of probation for the rape, Im not sure what his race has to do with anything.
The race of the victim is also of relevance, hence my reference to it. There is a well-established tendency, in the US, for the rape of white girls and women to be regarded with rather more concern than that of girls and women of colour, especially when the rapist sits in the "opposite" category to the victim, and the judiciary quite usually dispenses judgement accordingly. A black man accused of raping a white woman would, especially in the Deep South, be very unlikely to come away so clean as this.

[lines]

The race of the victim is also of relevance, hence my reference to it. There is a well-established tendency, in the US, for the rape of white girls and women to be regarded with rather more concern than that of girls and women of colour, especially when the rapist sits in the "opposite" category to the victim, and the judiciary quite usually dispenses judgement accordingly. A black man accused of raping a white woman would, especially in the Deep South, be very unlikely to come away so clean as this.

Whats the race of the victim? Unless you have some evidence as to what the race is it's not healthy to speculate about it because I can already see you have drawn conclusions about the implications of this event based on what you suspect her race is and to do that is very premature.

[MattShizzle]

More evidence that cheerleading is definitely not a sport and should not be regarded as such (as a way of avoiding title ix requirements to fund sports for female students) but recognized instead as a sexist side line athletic and beauty demonstration in support of sports.

Except since the US courts decided that this is the case the girls/women who take part in it aren't protected from being injured and the company that supplies their equipment is able to keep exploiting them and make more and more money without being subject to the regulations they would if it was considered a sport.

[Tim Finnegan]

Whats the race of the victim? Unless you have some evidence as to what the race is it's not healthy to speculate about it because I can already see you have drawn conclusions about the implications of this event based on what you suspect her race is and to do that is very premature.
Are you not aware of the well documented infleunce of racial anxieties in the judicial treatment of violent crimes, particularly sexual crimes? :confused:

[lines]

Are you not aware of the well documented infleunce of racial anxieties in the judicial treatment of violent crimes, particularly sexual crimes? :confused:

I'm aware that the manner in which the judicial system operates is subject to the sentiments of whoever happens to work in the judicial system and this results in cases being handled differently by different judges and jurors and in different places.

But all this is irrelevant, your making assumptions about the race of the victim without any proof. This is very counter-productive, please unless you have any evidence about the race of the victim please stop bringing race into this when the only verifiable factor affecting this case is the issue of sexism.

[Tim Finnegan]

I'm aware that the manner in which the judicial system operates is subject to the sentiments of whoever happens to work in the judicial system and this results in cases being handled differently by different judges and jurors and in different places.
You can't write demonstrable trends off as mere variety.


But all this is irrelevant, your making assumptions about the race of the victim without any proof. This is very counter-productive, please unless you have any evidence about the race of the victim please stop bringing race into this when the only verifiable factor affecting this case is the issue of sexism.
Gender and race are intersecting issues. That shouldn't be a novelty.

[agnixie]

You can't write demonstrable trends off as mere variety.


Gender and race are intersecting issues. That shouldn't be a novelty.

He can write off anything, he's that great.
Also, my only reaction to this is basically cold rage. >.<

[Sword and Shield]

Just a thought, but since it's here in Texas maybe we should make those tea partiers useful and send them after the school or something?

[RedRaptor]

Those ignorant hillbillys cant do jack about it, thank god. They would have probably hanged him. Disgusting racists.

[lines]

Those ignorant hillbillys cant do jack about it, thank god. They would have probably hanged him. Disgusting racists.

How does a thread about rape cause you to bring up "ignorant hillbillies" and that term you use sounds like a racial slur. I'm sorry but what is your statement in response to, it really seems out of place in this thread.

[MattShizzle]

Who said it has anything to do with race? Yes, the rapists name makes it almost certain he's black but the victim may have been too. Both bad and good people come in every race, gender, national origin, sexual orientation and religion.

[RedRaptor]

How does a thread about rape cause you to bring up &quot;ignorant hillbillies&quot; and that term you use sounds like a racial slur. I'm sorry but what is your statement in response to, it really seems out of place in this thread.

The tea party. Its like one post above mine. Get it? Hes black, hes a rapist, they're the tea party. Do the math. Come on that was golden!

[agnixie]

The tea party. Its like one post above mine. Get it? Hes black, hes a rapist, they're the tea party. Do the math. Come on that was golden!

What the fuck does this have to do with hillbillies, it's in South Texas, Hillbilly is a demonym for the Appalachians and the people of the Ozarks, you twit. Woody Guthrie and the workers who fought at Blair Mountain were hillbillies and more revolutionary than your trolling hipster ass.

[Sword and Shield]

Those ignorant hillbillys cant do jack about it, thank god. They would have probably hanged him. Disgusting racists.

Yeah Texas is fucked up.

I think you're mixing up hillbillys with rednecks though.

[Sword and Shield]

He only got 2 years of probation for the rape, Im not sure what his race has to do with anything.

He wouldn't have gotten any punishment at all if he were white.

[chegitz guevara]

This shit is typical. The rapist pleads down to assault, and then the school defends them, because they weren't convicted of anything serious. At my old university, a rapist ended up being a dorm warden.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

And why do Americans still think that America (as they call it, though it could also mean Greenland or Chile) is the greatest country in the world? The ignorance (and/or arrogance) of that society is astounding.

The flip side of U.S.-chauvinism is the kind of anti-U.S. chauvinism that abounds in Europe.

[Sword and Shield]

The flip side of U.S.-chauvinism is the kind of anti-U.S. chauvinism that abounds in Europe.

That's the funny thing. Europeans think it's an accomplishment to not be as bad as the United States.

[Gonzo313]

This just proves that in America we are taught from a young age that if you have power or popular sentiment you can get away with anything including screwing the poor and helpless.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Not to mention that it's a form of thinly veiled nationalism.

[GX.]

Except since the US courts decided that this is the case the girls/women who take part in it aren't protected from being injured and the company that supplies their equipment is able to keep exploiting them and make more and more money without being subject to the regulations they would if it was considered a sport.
Yeah this, it's actually the most dangerous school sport (activity, whatever) for women, minus any safety regulations. I'm not sure how that was supposed to be a feminist position given how often women's sports are ridiculed. You know, all those idiotic "jokes" about WNBA and such.

[Jazzratt]

Yeah this, it's actually the most dangerous school sport (activity, whatever) for women, minus any safety regulations. I'm not sure how that was supposed to be a feminist position given how often women's sports are ridiculed. You know, all those idiotic "jokes" about WNBA and such. Well, I can see where one could be coming from as a feminist to say "fuck cheerleading." The idea isn't that we should continue allowing women and girls to cheerlead in horrible conditions but that the entire activity of cheerleading should be done away with entirely. I think it's definitely not a position that is born from the same mentality as jokes about women's sports leagues or whatever.

[GX.]

Well, I can see where one could be coming from as a feminist to say "fuck cheerleading." But then why not draw the obvious connections between football and the institutional support of rape culture? Search the headlines, this is hardly an isolated incident; for example a Notre Dame player was let off the hook in similar fashion last year and tragically, the victim ended up committing suicide. Or how about all the sports commentators that jumped to Roesthlisberger's defense? Why not fuck football? Why not fuck the culture that treats a man's athletic contributions as more important than the lives of women? And how exactly does saying cheerleading is not a sport, it's unimportant and reinforces negative gender roles (which is true, but only to the extent that everything in our society does) challenge that? Women are already constantly put on the defensive and faced with this obligation to reject sexist stereotypes placed on them when such a demand is convenient to the patriarchy, and then expected to conform to them when it's convenient.

The idea isn't that we should continue allowing women and girls to cheerlead in horrible conditions but that the entire activity of cheerleading should be done away with entirely. That's exactly the idea in saying they shouldn't get title ix, though. And why not do away with football entirely then?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Just read the article a few times and I keep on getting more pissed. I want Texas burnt to the ground.

[MattShizzle]

Yes, Texas is among the most reactionary states in the US (which is one of the most reactionary non-dictatorship countries in the world.)

[Heathen Communist]

Texas... I honestly do not see how this is acceptable to them. This is just truly sickening...

[Agnapostate]

The victim, Hillaire S., is white. (http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/05/27/a-cheerleaders-rape-in-a-small-texas-town/)

http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2011/05/hillairescheerleaderrapetexas.jpg

[Queercommie Girl]

Just read the article a few times and I keep on getting more pissed. I want Texas burnt to the ground.

What about the lives of all the workers and small farmers in Texas?

[Queercommie Girl]

link (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cheerleader-must-compensate-school-that-told-her-to-clap-rapist-2278522.html)

OK, I live in the US but this makes me want to see someone nuke the US into 0 population.

This is wrong. We must unconditionally oppose anti-civilian and anti-working class violence at all times. The masses of America are not intrinsically to blame for the reactionary features that exist in the country.

Terrorist actions like 9-11 must be opposed, no matter what US imperialism may be doing in the Middle East.

Saying things like this is one way to alienate the American working class, especially white workers who are more culturally conservative.

[Queercommie Girl]

The victim, Hillaire S., is white. (http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/05/27/a-cheerleaders-rape-in-a-small-texas-town/)

http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2011/05/hillairescheerleaderrapetexas.jpg

And...?

[W1N5T0N]

what the fuck?

[Agnapostate]

Whats the race of the victim? Unless you have some evidence as to what the race is it's not healthy to speculate about it because I can already see you have drawn conclusions about the implications of this event based on what you suspect her race is and to do that is very premature.

Tim's speculation was founded in a general rule; this happened to be an exception to that rule. I was surprised myself, but I do think I recall some MSM coverage of this case or one similar to it.

[Agnapostate]

And Iseul is right in that the sweeping generalizations and bigotry based on shared nationality or regional residence are inappropriate. When I read them earlier today, they reminded me of the white supremacists who made similar generalizations and expressed angry outbursts against African-Americans as a result of this individual case.

[Tim Finnegan]

The victim, Hillaire S., is white. (http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/05/27/a-cheerleaders-rape-in-a-small-texas-town/)

http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2011/05/hillairescheerleaderrapetexas.jpg
Huh, interesting. Is this to be taken as some utterly horrific sign of progress or... What? :blink:

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

What about the lives of all the workers and small farmers in Texas?
It was an emotional reaction.

[The_Outernationalist]

It was an emotional reaction.

So is racism, sexism, fascism, etc. etc...or so the rational goes. Frankly, that was a very uncouth, reactionary statement, that I'm sure many else find offensive.

[Tim Finnegan]

Frankly, that was a very uncouth, reactionary statement, that I'm sure many else find offensive.
People who don't know emotive hyperbole when they see it aren't entitled to be offended.

[The_Outernationalist]

People who don't know emotive hyperbole when they see it aren't entitled to be offended.

I'll remember that next time someone says something racist or sexist or homophobic that it was "only emotional hyperbole, no need to be offended!"

in fact, next time you see a victim of anything short of a violent hate crime, make sure to tell them that why don't you! since you and you alone apparently decides what is acceptable enough to elicit an offended response.

GTFO.

[Tim Finnegan]

I'll remember that next time someone says something racist or sexist or homophobic that it was "only emotional hyperbole, no need to be offended!"

in fact, next time you see a victim of anything short of a violent hate crime, make sure to tell them that why don't you! since you and you alone apparently decides what is acceptable enough to elicit an offended response.

GTFO.
My point was that Esperanza's statement was not "reactionary" in any meaningful sense, in that did not, if understood as the emotive hyperbole which it so very clearly was, express a reactionary view. Racist, sexist, etc. comments are, however, reactionary in essence; emotion and hyperbole merely build upon that.

As, of course, you well know, but you're damned if you're going to give up that easily, right? :rolleyes:

[The_Outernationalist]

My point was that Esperanza's statement was not "reactionary" in any meaningful sense, in that did not, if understood as the emotive hyperbole which it so very clearly was, express a reactionary view. Racist, sexist, etc. comments are, however, reactionary in essence; emotion and hyperbole merely build upon that.

so condemning an entire region (of which victims of racism and sexism may reside in) to a sea of fire due to some lapse in intelligence and (blaming emotions for it) is somehow "not reactionary in any meaningful sense"?

[Summerspeaker]

Society needs to get its head around demilitarization (sports is the civic version of war) and around what "masculinity" actually means (oppression and violence).

This. Dudeliness has got to go.

[The_Outernationalist]

This. Dudeliness has got to go.

Why should masculinity go but femininity gets to stay? What does swapping one gender role with another do for anyone?

Also, Demilitarization is a pipe dream, good luck on wishing for the impossible, and forever being an out-of-touch hipster/pacificist who has no experience in the real world

[Tim Finnegan]

so condemning an entire region (of which victims of racism and sexism may reside in) to a sea of fire due to some lapse in intelligence and (blaming emotions for it) is somehow "not reactionary in any meaningful sense"?
If I didn't mean it, would have I said it?


Why should masculinity go but femininity gets to stay? What does swapping one gender role with another do for anyone?
"Dudeliness" refers to machismo, not masculinity. The two are hardly the same thing.

[Blackscare]

Wait so all sports are evil/whatever now? I can't play handball anymore? That's stupid. I suggest you read some Robert Bly, specifically "Iron John: A Book About Men". Bly advocates a re-examination of what it actually means to be a man, rejecting both the artificial ultra-machismo created in the 20th century as well as the elimination of a masculine identity altogether.

He talks about the need for men to understand the entire range of masculine emotion, rather than focusing on aggressiveness and anger/etc. What it really means to be a man (in the classic sense I suppose) is something much different than what we think today, but that doesn't mean that all activities that are traditionally associated with masculinity should be eliminated.

[Tim Finnegan]

Wait so all sports are evil/whatever now? I can't play handball anymore? That's stupid. I suggest you read some Robert Bly, specifically "Iron John: A Book About Men". Bly advocates a re-examination of what it actually means to be a man, rejecting both the artificial ultra-machismo created in the 20th century as well as the elimination of a masculine identity altogether.

He talks about the need for men to understand the entire range of masculine emotion, rather than focusing on aggressiveness and anger/etc. What it really means to be a man (in the classic sense I suppose) is something much different than what we think today, but that doesn't mean that all activities that are traditionally associated with masculinity should be eliminated.

"Dudeliness" refers to machismo, not masculinity. The two are hardly the same thing.
...

[Summerspeaker]

Why should masculinity go but femininity gets to stay?

Both should go; both oppress women. As communism seeks to end the class distinction, radical feminism seeks the abolition of the sex distinction. Various traits associated with masculinity and femininity would of course remain, but genuine revolution must shatter the hierarchy of gender beyond recognition.

[Tim Finnegan]

Both should go; both oppress women. As communism seeks to end the class distinction, radical feminism seeks the abolition of the sex distinction. Various traits associated with masculinity and femininity would of course remain, but genuine revolution must shatter the hierarchy of gender beyond recognition.
Noting, of course, that there's a difference between the dissolution of the binary conception of gender, which is a long term project, and getting rid of machismo on the left, which is something that can be dealt with far more immediately. The former is something that while occur as part of the general transition to and social evolution within a communist society, while the latter is something that people should be smacked around the head with a wet kipper until they start doing, as in, right now.

[Summerspeaker]

The former is something that while occur as part of the general transition to and social evolution within a communist society, while the latter is something that people should be smacked around the head with a wet kipper until they start doing, as in, right now.

I like the sound of that, though I don't even know what a kipper is. (Okay, now I do. Thanks internets.) :lol: Yes, aggressive masculinity and sexual violence demand immediate solutions across this culture, including in our radical communities. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

[The Intransigent Faction]

One part of this article really stood out...


a cheerleader freely agrees to act as a "mouthpiece" for a institution and therefore surrenders her constitutional right to free speech.

Interesting 'logic' from a capitalist court...

[Aversie]

The race does matter to the system. It doesn't to us.