The Diefication of Lenin

[Sovietski Soyuz]

I have been reading into and studying the post-Lenin USSR lately. One of the things that sticks out to me is Stalin's diefication of Lenin after his death.

Everywhere in the USSR there seemed to be a large painting or statue of Comrade Lenin. It seems that 'ol Joe really felt the need to surround himself, and the people, with the "immortal figure of Lenin." Also, the embalming of Lenin was in itself diefication. Lenin requested that he be buried next to his mother in Petrograd, but Stalin had him embalmed and put on display.

I really can't agree with the diefication of Lenin, or of anyone for that matter. Of course, Lenin is a comrade and leader that is to be respected, but Stalin raised him to god-like status, something Lenin himself would have never allowed.

Among my many criticisms of Stalin, this is the major one. What do you think about it?

[Vinny Rafarino]

I think none of us can really know the exact reason for it. Perhaps the CC and comrade Stalin felt that the untimely demise of Lenin would affect the proletariat in morale, a decrease in moale will lead to a decrease in production.

Seeing that the USSR had put all their eggs in the basket of industrialisation, perhaps they thought that keeping comrade Lenin's image and what he stood for (he was the prominent icon and leader of the revolution) alive in the proletariat's (especially since they were trying to get the people away from religios icons at the time) mind, essentially killing two birds with one stone;

The fact that the proletariat lost it's premeir leader and the recent loss of religion. The point here being that once you remove a portion of thinking from the mind, it's easier to fill that void with something else rather than simply let it remain empty, allowing for other perhaps "non Marxist" ideologies to fill it.

Who knows for sure...All in all, I don't see this as being a necessary condition in the next post revolution state. I could be wrong though...you never know.

[B.H.]

I majored in History in college and the cult of Lenin has a parrallel in U.S. History. When the United States first became independent, George Washington had what we would call a "cult of personality" too. He had his painting everywhere, speeches were given in his honor, his birthday was a holiday, ect. When a nation is young and has a lot of problems to overcome, the leadership must find a common theme that the masses can rally around. In the case of the Soviet Union it was Vladimir Lenin. In the case of the United States it was George Washington. The Soviet Union has passed on into history but we still see this occurring in the United States today. Notice how you hear a lot on tv about the "founding fathers" and other revolutionary patriots? The original leaders are once again being used as a rallying point for ALL Americans to give them a sense of identity and purpose.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Sovietski [email protected] 30 2003, 05:39 AM
I have been reading into and studying the post-Lenin USSR lately. One of the things that sticks out to me is Stalin's diefication of Lenin after his death.

Everywhere in the USSR there seemed to be a large painting or statue of Comrade Lenin. It seems that 'ol Joe really felt the need to surround himself, and the people, with the "immortal figure of Lenin." Also, the embalming of Lenin was in itself diefication. Lenin requested that he be buried next to his mother in Petrograd, but Stalin had him embalmed and put on display.

I really can't agree with the diefication of Lenin, or of anyone for that matter. Of course, Lenin is a comrade and leader that is to be respected, but Stalin raised him to god-like status, something Lenin himself would have never allowed.

Among my many criticisms of Stalin, this is the major one. What do you think about it?
I think he used it try and create a feeling of continuity between Lenin's rule and his.

[crazy comie]

yhea i think that is right

[Saint-Just]

Lenin was the leader of the revolution and therefore extremely important and a symbol of one of the greatest points in Russian history. Stalin himself could seemingly not achieve the same feats as Lenin did, leading Russia after the revolution was a great role however it is not as momentus as having led the revolution. However, Stalin perhaps defied this having then led the USSR as he did then deserved the same praise Lenin did.

[Bianconero]

Chairman Mao, I of course agree that Lenin was extremely important as the leader of the revolution. But I find that there are few things more disgusting than cult of personality. Communist leaders deserve huge credit for what they achieve, but they still are only human beings. They should never be seen as god - like figures.

The DPRK are doing similar things with King Jong Il right now. I can't support that.

[Severian]

During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the "consolation" of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it.

That's what Lenin wrote near the beginning of State and Revolution, (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch01.htm) and it's precisely what happened to him as well. Stalinism's deification of Lenin - even turning his body into a display mummy as if he was a pharoah or something - aided in the distortion and covering-up of Lenin's ideas.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Severian,

Thanks for the quote. I love the treatment Lenin gives to co-optation of revolutionaries on the first page of State and Revolution.

I agree with the opinions posted earlier that Stalin made a god of Lenin to legitimize his own rule.

I thank B.H. for sharing the parallel in U.S. history. I did not realize that the U.S. used to have such an attachment to George Washington. Obviously, we still do today but not to the extent it used to be. His birthday and Lincoln's were merged into President's Day some time ago.

On a personal note, I find the cult of personality disagreeable. It just seems to be some kind of political religion, and a speak for more than a few comrades here when I say that any benefit religion may have is outweighed by the threat of what zealots may do in the name of the religion.

[B.H.]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 1 2003, 02:51 AM
Severian,

Thanks for the quote. I love the treatment Lenin gives to co-optation of revolutionaries on the first page of State and Revolution.

I agree with the opinions posted earlier that Stalin made a god of Lenin to legitimize his own rule.

I thank B.H. for sharing the parallel in U.S. history. I did not realize that the U.S. used to have such an attachment to George Washington. Obviously, we still do today but not to the extent it used to be. His birthday and Lincoln's were merged into President's Day some time ago.

On a personal note, I find the cult of personality disagreeable. It just seems to be some kind of political religion, and a speak for more than a few comrades here when I say that any benefit religion may have is outweighed by the threat of what zealots may do in the name of the religion.
I would not say the cult of personality is completely bad---like I said it serves as a unifier. Both the United States and Soviet Union suffered from tremendous problems after they were formed and the threat from outside was great as well as internal rebellion and factions. Propagandists can use the cult of personality to deflect and retard much of this conflict by focusing on general values that the nation at large at least nominally professes.

Is this a case of educated people taking advantage of lesser educated people? Yes, in a way it is. However, would you rather deflate disagreements that could outright fracture society even more or would you rather have a little leader worship instead?

The United States was intense in its worship of its god Washington for only around fifty years and its leadership saw the wisdom of weening the country out of it for the most part. One of the mistakes that I personally felt the USSR made was keeping an intense cult of Lenin too long and downplaying the roles that others played in its cultural and political history later on.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

My problem with a cult of personality is that it becomes like a religion. Religions are meant to be peaceful unifiers, but unifying can mean stifling dissent. Look at the "United We Stand (Behind George Bush)" crowd... they accepted his blatant lies about Iraq and supported a war that has killed thousands to fatten some American corporations. Without dissent, things can become very dangerous indeed.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 05:20 AM
The United States was intense in its worship of its god Washington for only around fifty years and its leadership saw the wisdom of weening the country out of it for the most part.
Seems to me the Washington personality cult is still going strong. Everyone knows the cherry tree story, and how many people know it's complete fiction?

The Washington mythology serves as a unifier all right - trying to convince workers to unify with "American" bosses rather than workers in other countries. And, like the Lenin cult, it serves to iconize the revolution he led - covering up its warts, and making it more difficult to learn from it as a revolution (how it developed, learning about others who prepared for, organized, and led it like Adams and Paine, etc.)

[El Commandante]

This debate is still raging today in Russia and the body of Lenin is a focal point for arguement, many people want the body of Lenin to be buried in the manner which he wanted, in his local village ceremtary next to his mother. Many people feel that now that the Soviet Union is no more he should have his wish granted, but on the other hand many still see him as being a crucial figure in both the political and social history of Russia and the world and want to be able to pay respects to him.

I have visited the tomb of Lenin in Red Square and it is a very bizarre experience. The tomb has a very intense atmosphere arounding it because you walk about to it past the tombs of Soviet Heroes buried along the Kremlin walls and the tomb itself is very still and somber. The body itself looks vary wax like and barely life like because of the amount of chemicals pumped inside him but all the same it was very interesting to see.

[crazy comie]

cults are effectivly the same as religeons