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View Full Version : Daily Telegraph blogger suggests income-based rights to vote



IndependentCitizen
5th May 2011, 23:50
Despite dire warnings from all types of politicians that we really ought to give a damn, it rather looks as if most people entitled to vote in Britain’s first referendum for 36 years will not bother to do so.
Yes, I’m talking about today’s poll on the Alternative Vote. Wake up at the back there! But here’s an idea that might really stir up some interest – and improve our nation’s governance.
Why don’t we restrict votes to people who actually pay something into the system? No, I am not suggesting a return to property-based eligibility; although that system worked quite well when Parliament administered not just Britain but most of the world. Today, income would be a much better test, setting the bar as low as possible; perhaps including everyone who pays at least £100 of income tax each year.
That minimal requirement would include everyone who gets out of bed in the morning to go to work and could easily be extended to include, on grounds of fairness, several other groups. For example, all pensioners – because of the fiscal contributions to society they are likely to have paid earlier – and mothers – because of their contribution to defusing the ‘demographic time-bomb’ of an ageing population.
This modest proposal would, however, exclude large numbers of people who have no ‘skin in the game’ and who may even comprise the majority of voters in some metropolitan areas today. Their contribution is not just negative in financial terms – they take out more than they put in – but likely to be damaging to the decisions taken by democracies.
For example, it is sometimes said – and uncertainly attributed to Alexander Tytler – that: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.
“From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy.”
Hard to believe? The credit crisis afflicting democracies around the world demonstrates the truth of this observation. So does the fact that our less democratic competitors in the emerging markets suffer no such crisis.
We have been voting ourselves better benefits than we have earned for decades and – sooner than later – that has got to stop. Restoring the link between contributing to society and voting about how it is run would be a sensible first step.
If all that sounds rather dry, then – with apologies to regular readers – here’s anecdote from Max King, global asset allocation strategist at Investec, which sets out to explain the macroeconomics of tax and benefits in terms we can all understand.
Suppose that once a month, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all of them comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes and claim State benefits, it would go something like this;
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every month and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men; the paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody’s share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So the bar owner suggested a different system. The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing.
The sixth man paid £2 instead of £3 .
The seventh paid £5 instead of £7.
The eighth paid £9 instead of £12.
The ninth paid £14 instead of £18.
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59. 
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.
But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got £1 out of the £20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got £10!”
“Yes, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a £1 too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The rich get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
So, the nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. Funnily enough, the next month the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him.
But when it came to pay for their drinks, they discovered something important – they didn’t have enough money between all of them to pay for even half the bill.
That’s how non-contributory democracy led to the credit crisis in a nutshell. Or a joke, on the basis that you don’t need to be solemn to make a serious point. It’s time to restore the link between paying something into society and voting on decisions about how it is run.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100010127/a-tax-based-alternative-to-the-alternative-vote/

Ocean Seal
5th May 2011, 23:57
Yes, I remember being told this by a teacher of how we should reverse the elimination of who owned property as part of the right to vote. Well screw bourgeois democracy-- hell at least their telling us the truth now: Our votes don't matter.

Delenda Carthago
6th May 2011, 00:04
this is nothing new.this is a part of the "deservedly poor" theory that british conservatives have for over 3 centuries.

RedSonRising
6th May 2011, 03:28
How about we make it so that the people that make large sums of money off of other people's productive labor aren't allowed to vote? Or keep making those large sums of money anymore either? Yeah let's do that.

Tommy4ever
6th May 2011, 04:02
Amazing how shameless some people are.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
6th May 2011, 09:30
I figure this won't go home well with some of the Tories though, simply because it is too blunt and forward, too honest. They don't like those sort of things to go out publicly. The comments on that blog post are fucking disgusting.


Only one person on here? That's a relief. The New Labour/Old Stalinists promote selective culling of the British working classes via their deliberate policy of uncontrolled immigration which saw the largest influx of newcomers to Britain in its history - all to drive down British wages, and smite their political rivals, according to Labour whistleblowers who exposed that secret plot.

Numerous independent studies have shown that such immigration has given no discernible benefit to British society. Therefore, contributors like 'jadecharlotte' and her family receive less support from taxpayers than they deserve because too much welfare money is spent on job-dodging, tax-dodging economic migrants.

Disgusting.

human strike
6th May 2011, 17:35
Seems turnout for the referendum is actually like 40%, a lot higher than expected. Frankly, I find this very disappointing - I was hoping for something more like 20%. 40% gives the farce far too much legitimacy.

Jazzratt
6th May 2011, 20:20
He looks like this:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/files/2010/01/cowieblog.jpg
Of course the idea that poor people can vote offends him.

Joking (but not really joking, look at the fucking toff wanker) aside though this bloke (and the bellowing pillocks in the comments section) is pretty much espousing the views of the nutter fringe. That isn't to say that people don't think of these things, but that anyone apart from those on the more sane end of the right tend to realise that saying this sort of shit out loud doesn't win anybodyu any friends.

krazny
22nd May 2011, 04:33
While what he suggests is abhorrent by its very nature, I noted his usage of the words "modest proposal." Presumably, this is a reference to Jonathan Swift and his "Modest Proposal" which was satire intended to drive home a point. I'm not entirely sure that he's actually suggesting what he appears to be suggesting, rather speaking in rhetoric that unfortunately will go directly over the heads of most of the public.

Sinister Cultural Marxist
22nd May 2011, 04:56
Why don’t we restrict votes to people who actually pay something into the system? No, I am not suggesting a return to property-based eligibility; although that system worked quite well when Parliament administered not just Britain but most of the world.

Tell that to the 95% of non-voting subjects of the Queen, IE the teeming masses of Dickensian London or the millions of Indians where even the Maharajas lacked a vote.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
22nd May 2011, 07:50
While what he suggests is abhorrent by its very nature, I noted his usage of the words "modest proposal." Presumably, this is a reference to Jonathan Swift and his "Modest Proposal" which was satire intended to drive home a point. I'm not entirely sure that he's actually suggesting what he appears to be suggesting, rather speaking in rhetoric that unfortunately will go directly over the heads of most of the public.

Except, it's the Daily Telegraph.

CitizenSmith
23rd May 2011, 23:54
It's called the torygraph for a reason kids...

Still funny to see Cameron sack any Minister who dares to earn it's readerships' ire, and then claim to have had nothing to do with the Minister's proposal.