U.S. Action In Lybia To Force Out China? U.S. Action In Syria To Force Out Russians?

[Rakhmetov]

Everyone knows China has foothold in Africa spreading its influence around. Is the U.S. there to start forcing out the Chinese under the cover of aiding the Lybian rebels???

How about Syria where the Russians have a huge naval base. Will the U.S. move there too to stop Russian influence in the Middle-East????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPmlUFAXvdU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Y0DMM1MOY

[chegitz guevara]

Modern imperialism is hardly so crude. Comrades need to stop thinking that imperialism is stuck in the 19th Century, just because their own ideas are. We're fighting 21st Century imperialism, i.e., a global ruling class. Time to start waging 21st century communism and anarchism.

[PhoenixAsh]

Its imo possible. There are competing hierarchical groups within captalism...just like companies do to other companies; just like managers do to other managers within a company.

[ckaihatsu]

Modern imperialism is hardly so crude. Comrades need to stop thinking that imperialism is stuck in the 19th Century, just because their own ideas are. We're fighting 21st Century imperialism, i.e., a global ruling class. Time to start waging 21st century communism and anarchism.


Yes, but there's nothing wrong with being cognizant of bourgeois geopolitics and bourgeois economic trends. It's what currently shapes the world we live in, at least for the time being.

[chegitz guevara]

Yes, but there's nothing wrong with being cognizant of bourgeois geopolitics and bourgeois economic trends. It's what currently shapes the world we live in, at least for the time being.

It is entirely possible that we will see a world where global imperialism fractures into several poles. There is nothing preventing that from happening, except the understanding among the global capitalist class that they won't win an inter-imperialist war. If the Chinese or Russians get it into their head that they are better off taking on NATO and it's Asian allies, than cooperating with them, that could be bad for everyone.

The U.S. is even prepared to cede its "rightful" place as the dominent economy to the Chinese, in as much as it is inevitable anyway. The U.S. currently is seeking to "negotiate" its decline softly, as all previous empires have crashed hard. The probability of crash is something the Pentagon takes seriously. (They are also very concerned about climate change, as their job is to defend the U.S., and climate change will harm it.)

[RadioRaheem84]

The U.S. is even prepared to cede its "rightful" place as the dominent economy to the Chinese, in as much as it is inevitable anyway. The U.S. currently is seeking to "negotiate" its decline softly, as all previous empires have crashed hard. The probability of crash is something the Pentagon takes seriously. (They are also very concerned about climate change, as their job is to defend the U.S., and climate change will harm it.)


I don't deny this for a second but do you have any links to this analysis?

[chegitz guevara]

Which part? Someone posted an article here on RevLeft about the coming collapse of the U.S. Empire. I remember that most of us thought it had some good arguments, but that it was a bit too triumphalist in proclaiming the collapse of the U.S. before or around 2020.

[RadioRaheem84]

The part about negotiations. What steps has the US taken to secure a soft decline?

[ckaihatsu]

The U.S. is even prepared to cede its "rightful" place as the dominent economy to the Chinese, in as much as it is inevitable anyway.


Opportunists, start making your 'BRICS' flags and paraphernalia *now*...!


= D

[chegitz guevara]

The part about negotiations. What steps has the US taken to secure a soft decline?

I don't know that it's taken any steps other than beginning the discussion. Doesn't really matter what the Pentagon thinks, though, if the politicos refuse to see reality. I can't see either party willing to commit political suicide by winding down the empire easily.

[chegitz guevara]

Here's the article to which I was referring: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire (http://www.tomdispatch.com/archive/175327/)

[Rakhmetov]

Here's the article to which I was referring: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire (http://www.tomdispatch.com/archive/175327/)



This news makes me feel depressed for the peoples of the world because
America won't herald its collapse with indifference or apathy. Look, the leaders of America know that the U.S. has been declining during the last several decades and they have intervene massively since becoming aware of their nation's decline in order to stave off that descent into second power status. Just take a look at American history of foreign interventions/wars. Just take a look at the last decade. When America collapses it will go on a global rampage that will make the previous decade look like a boy scout expedition.

[ckaihatsu]

This news makes me feel depressed for the peoples of the world because
America won't herald its collapse with indifference or apathy. Look, the leaders of America know that the U.S. has been declining during the last several decades and they have intervene massively since becoming aware of their nation's decline in order to stave off that descent into second power status. Just take a look at American history of foreign interventions/wars. Just take a look at the last decade. When America collapses it will go on a global rampage that will make the previous decade look like a boy scout expedition.


I have the same concern of course and would tend to agree here but I think we've seen that even the U.S. doesn't have *unrestrained* latitude to wantonly impose its geopolitical will, at will.

This past decade has been a grim, yet revealing period of history in which we saw the limits of empire play out, both politically -- the 2000 neoconservative soft coup and its attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan -- and economically -- an ongoing series of public-debt-funded bubbles, for speculative financial gambling.

Public opinion finally put a stop to the *politics* of neo-imperialism around 2005 when it saw the administration's negligence at home -- its lack of a responsible response to Hurricane Katrina -- as a result of its adventurism abroad. While the *policy* (actuality) of imperialism has remained and even increased under the Obama Administration, the public support for it is at a simmer now, at best, with a solid anti-war demographic as part of the accepted mainstream.

We can't wholly discount public opinion and the effect it has on the character of empire, and I would venture to say that the public may have now become inured to possible future moods of viciousness as a result of having lived through it in this past decade.

[Delenda Carthago]

It is entirely possible that we will see a world where global imperialism fractures into several poles. There is nothing preventing that from happening, except the understanding among the global capitalist class that they won't win an inter-imperialist war. If the Chinese or Russians get it into their head that they are better off taking on NATO and it's Asian allies, than cooperating with them, that could be bad for everyone.

The U.S. is even prepared to cede its "rightful" place as the dominent economy to the Chinese, in as much as it is inevitable anyway. The U.S. currently is seeking to "negotiate" its decline softly, as all previous empires have crashed hard. The probability of crash is something the Pentagon takes seriously. (They are also very concerned about climate change, as their job is to defend the U.S., and climate change will harm it.)
Yes. And the US bourgoeises will say "well, we done messed up and the chinese did good. fuck our nuclears and the army bases we have worldwide, lets accept our defeat and leave the whole pie to the yellow dudes". And then, they will become janitors to a chinese corporation for 1$ a day just like the rest of us. And they will live happily ever after.