Osama Bin Laden Dead?

[thesadmafioso]

Thoughts? Apparently the president is about to make a major announcement shortly, and a great deal of speculation is going around that this is the subject.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/osama-bin-laden-is-killed.html?hp

[Ocean Seal]

Wow, it only took the capitalists 10 years. If this was their mission what were they doing for the other 10 years? Maybe they were stealing oil, creating contracts for rebuilding the nations that they destroyed, attacking working civilians, hiring mercenaries to put down any anti-colonial action, and of course negotiating with drug dealers on how to more perfectly put down the workers.

[thesadmafioso]

So, how is this going to impact the US military operation in the region? Increased rate of US withdrawal? Increase in the decline for domestic support for the operation?

It should be interesting to see how this effects the geopolitical dynamic of the region, hopefully it will speed up the rate of the conflicts conclusion.

[The Man]

MSNBC confirmed he was killed.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Hes probably been dead for years, nothing will change if the president announces his death

[thesadmafioso]

I believe it was said that he was killed about a week ago and that DNA tests were being run to confirm the body. Plus, I highly doubt Bush would pass over the opportunity to announce that news.

[The Man]

This is completely unbelievable.. I'm literally shivering.

[Adil3tr]

Wait... HE DIED ON MAY DAY! :cool:

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Doesn't really have many practical implications apart from the U.S. jingoistic pride that might be evoked by the reptoids.

[tachosomoza]

They're puking the nationalistic bullshit on every news station. But yeah, he's dead. Drone hit, apparently.

[The Man]

Hopefully this will be a huge hit against the 'War on Terror'

[Chimurenga.]

nothing will change if the president announces his death

Except re-election

[thesadmafioso]

Yeah, there is literally no credible room for Republicans to mount an attack on the president on foreign policy at this point, which is generally one of their favorite talking points aside from making the rich richer. The 2012 election just became a great deal easier for the President in regards to securing his base, as the Afghan war cannot possibly continue for much longer after this event.

[Blackscare]

Yeah, there is literally no credible room for Republicans to mount an attack on the president on foreign policy at this point, which is generally one of their favorite talking points aside from making the rich richer. The 2012 election just became a great deal easier for the President in regards to securing his base, as the Afghan war cannot possibly continue for much longer after this event.

haha what

[Red Commissar]

CNN is claiming that he was killed in some sort of manor outside of Islamabad.

Obviously Obama and the Dems well try to take credit for it- electioneering, considering what is going on.

Of course the patriotic nutjobs will talk about how now the memories of 9/11 victims and all those killed by Al-Qaeda since then. Yes, there were many innocent people that died at the hands of Al-Qaeda due to their idiotic ideology. But any mention of those hundreds of thousands of civilians that have been killed in the pretext of the war on terror by the US chasing an idiotic ideology? Of course not :rolleyes:

Afghanistan will continue regardless of whether or not Osama was dead. That won't stop them. Maybe people will begin to wake up to that fact when the US continues its operations despite the "victory" that is declared from Osama's death.

[mastershake16]

Get it U.S.!

[Os Cangaceiros]

an admin should merge this with the other osama thread

[GPDP]

As usual, any time a prime U.S. objective is accomplished, the media proceeds to perform a patriotic circle-jerk.

Sure, the guy was an asshole, but goddamn, all the "this changes EVERYTHING AMERICA FUCK YEAH" talk is nauseating.

In any case, all this is gonna do is ensure Obama's re-election. Foreign policy wise, it'll be business as usual. We'll find another bogeyman soon enough. Hell, we already did. Anyone know what Ahmadinejad is up to lately?

[choff]

This is going to create such a huge surge of nationalism for the US. The ten year long "war on terror" did not just end, it just "paid off."

[thesadmafioso]

haha what

Well, domestic support for the conflict cannot possibly be retained without the motivation of 9/11 holding it up. U.S. interest in the region has just evaporated almost completely, and I can't imagine any regional terrorist groups maintaining any order or gaining much ground after this upheaval in the dichotomy of the conflict.

[Blackscare]

I'm guessing there will probably be some big, dramatic 9.11-esque revenge attack that may well just revive the american public's hawkishness for another decade or so.


Before, he was a threat because he was the leader and primary funder of a global terror network. They may have lost a figurehead, but they constantly groom new leaders (which makes sense, considering the turnover rate), and his funds are either secure somewhere or dried up a long time ago and they have an entirely different source today.

What I'm getting at is, the US government has succeeded in taking an aging, increasingly non-essential figurehead and making him a threat once again; now as a martyr.


This is why the War on Terror is idiotic.

[LewisQ]

Sadly, anyone who thinks a jingoism-stoking triumph like this will result in anything other than renewed support for future imperialist adventures is fooling themselves.

[Blackscare]

Let me clarify though:

Even in the event that no attack happens, as it may well be beyond their scope at this time, the nature of a group like that makes it almost impossible to stop by killing one leader. It's more like a Hydra; every head that you cut off is replaced by two more. Well, even if that isn't the case either that's how continued presence would be sold.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Short term we could see a few weeks of American triumphalism, beer drenched frat boys chanting "USA USA". In case anyone hasn't quite got their fill of ruling class syncophancy after the royal wedding...

A psychological shot in the arm after imperialisms recent string of disasters in Afghanistan.

Apparently Bin Laden has been living more or less openly in a mansion in a suburb of Islamabad. It seems very likely he had been protected by elements of Pakistani Intelligence. Recently the ruling class of Pakistan seems to be giving signs of tilting towards the Chinese sphere instead of the US. Interesting geopolitically,

[Sosa]

BREAKING NEWS! A well-known terrorist organization killed a terrorist.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Well, domestic support for the conflict cannot possibly be retained without the motivation of 9/11 holding it up. U.S. interest in the region has just evaporated almost completely, and I can't imagine any regional terrorist groups maintaining any order or gaining much ground after this upheaval in the dichotomy of the conflict.

It's not a challenge for them to come up with something new.

[RedScare]

This is going to create such a huge surge of nationalism for the US. The ten year long "war on terror" did not just end, it just "paid off."

Yes, and that's the reason I can't get too excited about this. It's like suddenly the entirety of the War on Terror, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the hundreds of thousands killed, were worth it to kill one man. A monstrous man, to be sure, but just one fucking guy. Versus two countries utterly wrecked. Ugh.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Yes, he's dead. Justice served. However, Al-Qaeda is a decentralized group. Chopping off the assumed head doesn't stop all these other isolated cells, plus the other growing groups, such as Al-Shabaab in Somalia, the hidden cells in Pakistan, among others across the Arab peninsula, etc. Is it big news? Yes. Will the occupation of Afghanistan end? Hell no.

[Red Commissar]

Obama is giving his address now. It is confirmed- he is stating that Bin Laden was killed in a compound "deep inside Pakistan". He says he authorised an "operation to bring him to justice" last week and a raid was carried out on a compound of his in a place called "Abbottabad"- or I assume that is what he said, he stuttered a bit there. Other cushy stuff.

[tachosomoza]

I wonder what consequences the Pakistanis are going to face for letting him stay right under their noses for so long. Are they going to concoct a reason to arbitrarily invade there as well? Anyway, here's to another 10 years in that hellhole!

[Lobotomy]

al qaeda is a highly organized group, they will be more than prepared for this. it's not over by any means. if anything it's just a symbolic event that could possibly allow for an obama victory in 2012.

[Agent Ducky]

Tomorrow, I'm gonna go around reminding people why Osama bin Laden was a problem in the first place. Oh yeah, WE TRAINED HIM. We trained him to fight those filthy Soviets! Look how well that paid off! Only 7 years of war! Good job, America!

[Os Cangaceiros]

Short term we could see a few weeks of American triumphalism, beer drenched frat boys chanting "USA USA". In case anyone hasn't quite got their fill of ruling class syncophancy after the royal wedding...

A psychological shot in the arm after imperialisms recent string of disasters in Afghanistan.

Apparently Bin Laden has been living more or less openly in a mansion in a suburb of Islamabad. It seems very likely he had been protected by elements of Pakistani Intelligence. Recently the ruling class of Pakistan seems to be giving signs of tilting towards the Chinese sphere instead of the US. Interesting geopolitically,

Hahaha, you've seen those doofuses in front of the White House too?

God this country is pathetic. There should be a crowd outside the White House with torches, ready to re-create 1814, but instead we get this.

[timbaly]

You're all such downers. He's dead, good riddance even if it doesn't prevent further terrorist attacks. Also Obama said he was found 150 km outside of Islamabad and it wasn't a drone that killed him. There was an actual "firefight."

[thesadmafioso]

Yeah, I am not exactly looking forward to the next few weeks of living in the US. I can only imagine the degree of blind nationalistic posturing which will occur. I understand this is a commendable action, but it does not underwrite the last 10 years of blind destructive warfare nor does it solve the larger issues still confronting the region.

[tachosomoza]

Hahaha, you've seen those doofuses in front of the White House too?

God this country is pathetic. There should be a crowd outside the White House with torches, ready to re-create 1814, but instead we get this.

Obama's probably pissed he can't have his celebratory orgy with Mitt Romney, John Boehner, Haley Barbour, the Clintons, the Bushes, Colin Powell, and Michael Moore in peace. :lol:

[GPDP]

Goddamn it, now everyone just has to text me to let me know about this, as if I was some kind of hermit.

I'm especially shaking my head at one of my so-called leftist friends, who was overjoyed that OBAMA DID IT!!! HE GOT BIN LADEN!!! Yeah, cool. It only took ten years of war, hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers, Afghans, Pakistanis, and others, and several countries bombed to the bedrock to kill one bastard. But keep cheerleading for your boy Obama! USA USA USA USA USA!!!

[praxis1966]

For what it's worth, the primary reason this took so long and cost so many lives was because of conscious choices made during the Bush administration. The one thing CNN's got right was that the priority was Iraq and not Al Queda.

[Zav]

Great, so now Al-Queda is going to claim that they caused some other act of terrorism that will happen in a few months, the US will say it came from some other Middle Eastern country, and will then have its grubby hands in another oil war. Fabulous.

[tachosomoza]

I wish I had that fucking corpse right now, I'd be a millionaire. Some nut in Texas would sell his soul for it.

[thesadmafioso]

Anyone else finds Bush's commentary on this a bit misplaced?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/george-w-bush-i-congratulated-obama-on-the-death-of-bin-laden.php

[black magick hustla]

quoting the great stagger lee, i need to find a coccoon i will puke next week because of the fucking nationalistic jingoistic vitrol

[Steve_j]

Osama who?

Rember, these wars are about WMD's, oh no i mean ridding the world of dictators, oh shit their on our payrole, um...... Its about fredom and peace loving people who *love nothing more than good war!

*as long as its not in their country

[Astarte]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

[Agent Ducky]

Ok, couldn't they have killed Osama on the same day as the royal wedding? Wouldn't that have been awesome?

[tachosomoza]

Ok, couldn't they have killed Osama on the same day as the royal wedding? Wouldn't that have been awesome?

Wouldn't it be awesome if they had gotten the coordinates of Osama's location and that of the wedding mixed up when they fired the missile?

[Summerspeaker]

Also Obama said he was found 150 km outside of Islamabad and it wasn't a drone that killed him. There was an actual "firefight."

The good guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M) apparently shot various women being used as "human shields" along with Bin Laden, plus who knows how many other people. Firefights don't conform to some macho warrior ideal. They're nasty.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Where's the real news? The royal wedding, Mariah Carey giving birth, Lindsay Lohan, Charlie Sheen?

[Agent Ducky]

Where's the real news? The royal wedding, Mariah Carey giving birth, Lindsay Lohan, Charlie Sheen?

No amount of Charlie Sheen-ism will take America's attention off Osama bin Laden. Also, I see this as a victory against the vomitous over-coverage of the god damn weding. Lmao.

[thesadmafioso]

Where's the real news? The royal wedding, Mariah Carey giving birth, Lindsay Lohan, Charlie Sheen?

Judging by the physical reactions which have emerged in cities, it would appear that it all falls under the category of entertainment to most Americans.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The good guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M) apparently shot various women being used as "human shields" along with Bin Laden, plus who knows how many other people. Firefights don't conform to some macho warrior ideal. They're nasty.

Unless you're talking about Saddam's sons. Those guys did kind of go out like g's.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39317000/gif/_39317195_saddams_sons2_416inf.gif

[Red Commissar]

Anyone else finds Bush's commentary on this a bit misplaced?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/george-w-bush-i-congratulated-obama-on-the-death-of-bin-laden.php

Well, I just find it funny when anyone uses the whole justice angle eg "No matter how long it takes, justice will be done." as Bush put it. Considering what the US has done in regards to a death toll and material cost, it is funny seeing Bush talk about "Justice". Victors write history though ...

Plus, for the next few days we'll be flooded with Jingo, nationalism, and other shit. People are going to forget about how these wars have been pursued and the toll they have extracted.

Looking up news feeds for "Abbottabad" where Osama was killed, there was also reports of a Pakistani helicopter crash. Was this related to the raid on Bin Laden's compound or a coincidence?

[The Man]

BREAKING NEWS: OSAMA BIN LADEN *NOT* DEAD!

Osama Bin Laden has been confirmed not dead. We have not seen the Death Certificate that Trump wants to see.

[redhotpoker]

As the war in Afghanistan rolls on this will be is a good chance to build the anti-war movement.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

BREAKING NEWS: OSAMA BIN LADEN *NOT* DEAD!

Osama Bin Laden has been confirmed not dead. We have not seen the Death Certificate that Trump wants to see.

I was told that the leader of the Senate Republicans wants more proof that he is dead.

[Red_Struggle]

Lol the drunkards where I live (which includes just about everyone) started marching around Nittany Point with an American flag chanting USA over and over ahead to the sound of honking horns.


I have my red flag out the window :laugh:

[tachosomoza]

http://www.chimpout.com/

Look at what the fucktards over here are saying. :lol:

[BlackMarx]

Let's keep some things in perspective comrades......

1. Al Qaeda was a reactionary response to the spread of global capitalism.


If you go back to the Manifesto, Marx talks about how the bourgeoisie desire to spread their ideas across the world. When the Capitalist order began to take hold in the many bourgeoisie revolutions that swept Europe in the early 19th century, the ideals of Liberalism spread like wildfire threatening existing power structures. The existing ruling powers during that time thus organized and created structures to fight against the new rising class; the Council of Europe being a good example.

Radical Islam, essentially is the response of the existing power structures in the middle east that are threatened by Liberalism, which is starting to take hold in the Middle East, thus the current bourgeoisie revolutions that are happening there now. What we are seeing is potentially the completion of the spread of Capitalism globally. OBL's death might very well be the nail in the coffin. The question is, how will global hegemony be maintained when the U.S influence is threatened. Of course, I have reason to believe this is a past concern now that OBL has been killed.

This is significant to understand because the U.S, during the cold war, spent every dime it could preventing the rise of Communism/Socialism alike in the Arab world. By focusing on left wing governments, they U.S created a political vacuum that allowed the reactionary right wing forces in these countries to have a monopoly on addressing the discontent with the implementation of capitalism (Neoliberalism) that the lower classes were expressing. These forces, however, who had no interest in Liberalism's social views (but ironically liked the wealth), turned their countries into Neocolonialism states for their own enrichment, while neglecting their populaces. When the populaces demanded land bread and peace, they told them it was the infidels that brought them misery. This radical islamic threat was nothing more then a dying political order trying to legitamize its rule as Liberalism was ebbing away at its foundation.

2. Osama Bin Laden is dead, the police state to fight him is not....

Now that Osama Bin Laden is dead, what is going to be interesting is the public discussion that will ensue on the police state we have created to make ourselves feel "safe." Well, knowing how dumb the American public is, the argument for this police state will be made, people will agree with it because it produced results and it will be quite useful for Capitalist governments to employ to fight dissent from "economic terrorist". (read: us). The U.S government now has the power to assassinate American citizens abroad, which means there is no haven for dissenters of any kind. This is important to understand in a world where Capitalist governments are becoming increasingly authoritarian; increased state intervention in protecting property rights, increased corporate power/collusion with state governments.

[RedScare]

I just went down to watch all the frat types at my university block our main road and spout all the patriotic nationalist bullshit.


And I just sat on the brick wall and chain smoked for a bit while humming the International. Fun times.

[Salyut]

I just went down to watch all the frat types at my university block our main road and spout all the patriotic nationalist bullshit.


And I just sat on the brick wall and chain smoked for a bit while humming the International. Fun times.

Have they started singing Toby Keith songs yet?

[tachosomoza]

I just went down to watch all the frat types at my university block our main road and spout all the patriotic nationalist bullshit.


And I just sat on the brick wall and chain smoked for a bit while humming the International. Fun times.

Most of those frat types would piss in their Levi's if they were ever, god forbid, to bring back the draft and they got called up to go to Afghanistan or Iraq.

[Red_Struggle]

Have they started singing Toby Keith songs yet?

They have at my school. Not even joking.

[Salyut]

I'm honestly curious as to what they do with the body. Islamic burial or do something like what the Israeli's did with Eichmann?

[smashcapital]

Well at least in a week they will probably all forget about it.

The super nationalist bullshit is gonna quite annoying in the meantime tough.

[tachosomoza]

They're talking about his house on one station. 3 stories, 10 feet high, valued at $1 million. Also, his son was there and was killed in the fight. This isn't boding well for the Pakistanis. The fact that his son was there means that he felt safe and welcome in the area.

[Agent Ducky]

I'm honestly curious as to what they do with the body. Islamic burial or do something like what the Israeli's did with Eichmann?
What did we do with Saddam Hussein's body? maybe whatever we did with him? Or freeze him like Lenin. That's always an option.

[Sickle-A]

The body will be dealt with "in accordance with Islamic tradition and practice" - Al Jazeera. Apparently, to stifle reasons for retaliatory attacks.

[Salyut]

What did we do with Saddam Hussein's body? maybe whatever we did with him? Or freeze him like Lenin. That's always an option.

It looks like they gave Saddam's body back to his family - but I'm not certain that would be the case with bin Laden. I'd expect there would be too much public outcry over that.

[Salyut]

The body will be dealt with "in accordance with Islamic tradition and practice" - Al Jazeera. Apparently, to stifle reasons for retaliatory attacks.

Thats what I was expecting.

[mosfeld]

I can imagine Amerikans turning May Day into a national holiday commemorating his death ("great victory day" or something..)

On a side note, anyone else feel weird about him being dead? He's always been yapping around and doing shit, but now he's dead. How weird.

[Salyut]

This guy unknowingly live-tweeted the raid. (http://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual)

[Optiow]

American state terror will only increase because of this ego boost. I never liked Bin Laden, but the fact he is dead is a great propaganda tool for the US imperialists to continue their war with terror.

[Q]

Saddam down, Osama down... When will Bush go down for his crimes?

[Q]

BREAKING NEWS: OSAMA BIN LADEN *NOT* DEAD!

Osama Bin Laden has been confirmed not dead. We have not seen the Death Certificate that Trump wants to see.


On that note:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226723_197099593667576_100001026102965_565144_5281 903_n.jpg

[CynicalIdealist]

On that note:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226723_197099593667576_100001026102965_565144_5281 903_n.jpg

Don't be a liberal, man.

[tachosomoza]

I'd prepare for retaliation. I've met my share of fundamentalist Muslims, and these people are no joke. When they get pissed, they get PISSED. No more underwear fiascos or Christmas tree stuff. It's time for the real show.

[Threetune]

The resistance to this imperialist fascist smiting and blitzing in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya will not be checked by this latest assassination.

Blair and bush, etc are responsible for far more slaughter than Gadffi or Bin Laden could ever dream of, even if they wanted to, and the fascist celebration rallies around the US can’t hide that from the world which is heading for more war because of the dire economic crisis of the whole gangster capitalist racket.

[Q]

Don't be a liberal, man.

You have to appreciate a nice troll when you encounter it. I certainly do.

[Salyut]

On that note:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226723_197099593667576_100001026102965_565144_5281 903_n.jpg

You could say he played his... *sunglasses*...Trump card.

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA

[Manic Impressive]

so anyone wanna see the picture?

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2011/5/2/1/osama-bin-laden-dead-pics-disturbing-18345-1304315828-23.jpg

[Aurora]

Wait... HE DIED ON MAY DAY! :cool:
Yep, i'm sure it's some sort of victory for workers that US soldiers have the power to enter a country their not at war with and assasinate people in their home. :rolleyes:

Yes, he's dead. Justice served.
Doesn't it worry you that that's the exact sort of bullshit that Obama and Cameron are spewing at the moment? i wasn't aware communists thought US imperialism served justice. :rolleyes:

[Dunk]

so anyone wanna see the picture?

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2011/5/2/1/osama-bin-laden-dead-pics-disturbing-18345-1304315828-23.jpg

Source?

[Sosa]

Mr. Obama made it clear in his remarks at the White House on Sunday that the United States still faces significant national security threats despite Bin Laden's death.
“His death does not mark the end of our effort,” Mr. Obama said. “There’s no doubt that Al Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us. We must and we will remain vigilant at home and abroad.”- NYT

[Coyote]

At least now more and more average Joe's and Jane's may realize what this war is actually about, once they find that the troops aren't going to be coming home anytime soon.

[Manic Impressive]

Source?
internet search :p

I'm not saying it's definitely real but that's the picture that's been shown on Pakistani tv, I've heard it's also been on US tv.

Breaking news Bin Laden buried at sea /facepalm way to stoke the conspiracy theories

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-body-headed-for-burial-at-sea-officials-say.html

[Robocommie]

thumbs up guys, we killed terrorism

[~Spectre]

internet search :p

I'm not saying it's definitely real but that's the picture that's been shown on Pakistani tv, I've heard it's also been on US tv.

Breaking news Bin Laden buried at sea /facepalm way to stoke the conspiracy theories

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-body-headed-for-burial-at-sea-officials-say.html


Oh boy.

[~Spectre]

If they didn't want his body to become a rallying cry, here's a really simple solution: They could've just fucking dissapeared him. Kill him, incinerate the body, and never tell anyone about it until 50 years later.

But of course that wouldn't have gained them the rally around the flag effect. Imperialism taking priority over the safety of the citizenry. Shocker.

[Spartacus.]

He's dead!!!! He's dead!!!! Now we will enjoy hundreds of years of peace and prosperity, taxes will be lowered, education and healthcare will be free, poverty will be eliminated and we will all enjoy the sweet fruits of capitalist democracy and freedom!!!! WOOHOO!!!! LONG LIVE BUSH!!!!
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Wait... Didn't we heard the same promise when Saddam was killed and when Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded???? :confused:


Oh well, good job Obama!!! You killed a US-funded, US-trained and US-led terrorist that has been hanging out with CIA for decades and whose family has close personal relationships with Bush clan. Really, a breaking news!!! :lol::lol::lol:

[~Spectre]

I won't hold out hope for a NYtimes headline of:

US AGENTS KILL FORMER US AGENT

[El Chuncho]

Hes probably been dead for years, nothing will change if the president announces his death

And I have been saying that for a few years. Some of the Bin Ladens in the warning videos to the west do not even look like him, anyway. The truth is that he has probably been dead for some time.

And I would like to see the US military provide real evidence that he is dead.

[IndependentCitizen]

Obama's election campaign started last week, amirite?


Anyway - what does it matter? We'll still be in Afghanistan and Iraq....

[ComradeR]

You know I think they've known where he was for a looong time and killing him now is just part of their whole political game.

Well, domestic support for the conflict cannot possibly be retained without the motivation of 9/11 holding it up. U.S. interest in the region has just evaporated almost completely, and I can't imagine any regional terrorist groups maintaining any order or gaining much ground after this upheaval in the dichotomy of the conflict. Well while that's possible remember support was already slipping and now they just made a martyr out of a guy who had no real power left. Which is bound to cause new attacks which they will use to justify our continued presence in Afghanistan and the rest of the Gulf. Also remember Bin Laden was not part of the Taliban so hes death wont affect them at all.


Anyway - what does it matter? We'll still be in Afghanistan and Iraq....
And we will be for a long time

[RedHal]

meh....the world's biggest terrorist group kills the head of a smaller terrorist group

[Robespierre Richard]

Instead of looking at the conspiracy theories with the dead body, let's look at some of the other interesting things this means:

- He was "hiding out" in a mansion in a wealthy area for years. Not in a cave, more so the Pakistani equivalent of Long Island.
- Al-Qaeda was never an organized group, more of an information clearinghouse of different groups in different countries. The name was actually never used before the US government used it to describe the group after 9/11. Physically Al-Qaeda is as real a group as the mythical "Russian mafia."
- They (the Pakistan-based group bin Laden led) already blew all their best resources on 9/11, since then the most they have been able to do is coordinated train bombings. The idea that they have a nuke and have not used it yet is HIGHLY unlikely. It's something that could happen in a movie where Arnold Schwarzenegger walks on hovering fighter jets but otherwise not really.
- The way "Islamic terror" works is with wealthy Saudi sheikhs giving money to the groups for successful attacks. In that sense despite having an ideological base, it has always been the financial base that kept the whole thing going. Organizing terrorist attacks is expensive (at least $500,000 was spent organizing 9/11) and overhead expenses which most of the sponsor money goes to are even bigger, if we look at the mansion Osama was in. (I'm assuming it was paid for out-of-pocket by him or a sponsor.
- In the case of the bin Laden group, it worked by recruiting middle class youths. The political economy of it's radical Islam has been neo-colonialism of the pre-neoliberal era. The idea has always been resisting not imperialism or US foreign policy, or even "hating American Freedom(tm)" but defending the old neo-colonial system where the national elite had a monopoly on contracts with capital.

I wonder what the ISI angle on this has been though. Apparently they didn't know about the operation. I wonder what were their reasons for sheltering bin Laden in the first place though.

Oh also he was killed May 2nd local time lol so don't worry guys.

[jake williams]

I think anyone who knows anything recognizes that this is irrelevant in terms of Osama having done things before that he won't now, but the ramifications for American domestic politics are going to be interesting and unpredictable.

I'm not putting money on it, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Obama('s advisors) thought it would be good to actually do this because he was getting kicked in the ass in the 2010 midterms (the suggestion I heard was the operation has been going on about as long as this, and frankly if the Americans cared a lot about killing Osama, they could've done it). Unquestionably this will be spectacular both for his domestic approval ratings, and probably his capacity within the executive to do what he wants to do, including expanding the war(s).

That said, this will also absolutely re-raise the Afghan/Pakistan war in American public consciousness, and that does open a possibility of rebuilding the anti-war movement. The political effects of this are hard to guage, but they will be significant.

Osama bin Laden was a deranged, sociopathic multi-millionaire princelet who harmed everyone he affected, but the ecstasy at his death is disturbing on a few levels. His death brings no justice.


I wonder what the ISI angle on this has been though. Apparently they didn't know about the operation.
Almost inconceivable. What intelligence resources do you think the US has in northern Pakistan? White kids from Kansas? Czech mercenaries? A guy who took Arabic at Yale?

[Ned Kelly]

Osama was an arsehole..on a huge scale no doubt.
But this is nothing for the working class to celebrate..
It simply gives the military-industrial establishment the 'moral' ammunition to seek out more terrorists seeking 'retribution...'

[RHIZOMES]

Wow, it only took the capitalists 10 years. If this was their mission what were they doing for the other 10 years? Maybe they were stealing oil, creating contracts for rebuilding the nations that they destroyed, attacking working civilians, hiring mercenaries to put down any anti-colonial action, and of course negotiating with drug dealers on how to more perfectly put down the workers.

Needed to maintain their literal Emmanuel Goldstein.

[Robespierre Richard]

Almost inconceivable. What intelligence resources do you think the US has in northern Pakistan? White kids from Kansas? Czech mercenaries? A guy who took Arabic at Yale?

Well if we listen to Obama's people, it's Google Maps and Yellow Pages:


Bin Laden's compound was huge and "extraordinarily unique," about eight times larger than other homes in the area, U.S. officials said.

They said the compound was isolated by 12-foot walls, with access restricted to two security gates. It had no telephone or Internet service and had clearly been custom built to hide "someone of significance."

Though what I meant by angle was whether bin Laden was simply "not needed" anymore or if this was part of a bigger general strategy.

[Martin Blank]

On that note:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226723_197099593667576_100001026102965_565144_5281 903_n.jpg

If they saw this, the entire membership of the liberal DemocraticUnderground.com forum would have a collective orgasm.

[the last donut of the night]

so glad i dont live in america anymore

[Obs]

so anyone wanna see the picture?

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2011/5/2/1/osama-bin-laden-dead-pics-disturbing-18345-1304315828-23.jpg

Yeah, that's obviously fake, and if that's what they're using to prove they killed him, then he's probably still alive, if he hasn't died from a kidney disease a while back.

This is why it's fake: http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png

[jake williams]

Well if we listen to Obama's people, it's Google Maps and Yellow Pages:
I'm not ruling out the possibility that if you blow up enough random homes, you might eventually kill Osama bin Laden, but since the American state has wanted to kill the guy since 12/09/01, and haven't, but have been bombing a lot of supsicious sites like large houses, wedding parties and kids playing with pebbles, it probably wasn't that easy to find or kill the guy.


Though what I meant by angle was whether bin Laden was simply "not needed" anymore or if this was part of a bigger general strategy.
It's hard to say, and unless something specifically fishy was happening that gets leaked, we probably won't ever know for sure. Pakistan looks like it's scrambling right now to figure out what their story is, but that in and of itself doesn't give us much information. Pakistan is always scrambling to figure out what its story is.

[Martin Blank]

This is why it's fake: http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png

It's pretty obvious the beard (indeed, the entire lower head) was superimposed over the real video images. But something is telling me that it doesn't mean they weren't showing Bin Laden; I'd like to know what had been shown and what was being said when this image was on the air, because I have a sense that calling that shot either fully "genuine" or fully "fake" is wrong.

[tachosomoza]

I'm wearing my hammer and sickle hoody today, comrades!:cool:

[Martin Blank]

So, I'm reading this morning's New York Times, going through all the stories they have about Bin Laden's death, and I come across this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02reconstruct-capture-osama-bin-laden.html

There is a lot of detailed backstory information here -- much more than a White House correspondent would get from a media kit handed out just before the announcement. This is the kind of stuff you don't hear for at least a week after an event like this.

I think the New York Times had the story -- they had either a) found out that the military and Obama knew where Bin Laden was and were sitting on him, or b) found out where Bin Laden was hiding, and then promptly told the White House. One way or another, it's pretty clear the Times colluded with the government to suppress the information they had. Certainly not the first time. Certainly won't be the last. But it's good to know -- another example to use.

[Robespierre Richard]

It's pretty obvious the beard (indeed, the entire lower head) was superimposed over the real video images. But something is telling me that it doesn't mean they weren't showing Bin Laden; I'd like to know what had been shown and what was being said when this image was on the air, because I have a sense that calling that shot either fully "genuine" or fully "fake" is wrong.

What do you mean? That they didn't just google image search the word corpse or something else?

Osama death photoshop: Director's Cut

http://i51.tinypic.com/kd7fv6.jpg

[~Spectre]

So, I'm reading this morning's New York Times, going through all the stories they have about Bin Laden's death, and I come across this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02reconstruct-capture-osama-bin-laden.html

There is a lot of detailed backstory information here -- much more than a White House correspondent would get from a media kit handed out just before the announcement. This is the kind of stuff you don't hear for at least a week after an event like this.

I think the New York Times had the story -- they had either a) found out that the military and Obama knew where Bin Laden was and were sitting on him, or b) found out where Bin Laden was hiding, and then promptly told the White House. One way or another, it's pretty clear the Times colluded with the government to suppress the information they had. Certainly not the first time. Certainly won't be the last. But it's good to know -- another example to use.


I think more than likely, the White House simply fed the information to the Times as soon as they were ready to make the announcement. It's a pretty convenient plant for them.

[Sam_b]

Stop the War Coalition are spot on here:
http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/usa-war-on-terror/468-the-killing-of-bin-laden-how-to-draw-a-line-under-ten-years-of-war-since-911


STATEMENT BY STOP THE WAR COALITION:

The killing of Osama bin Laden by US Special Forces in Pakistan has been hailed a turning point in the 'war on terror'. The assassination, it is claimed, will draw a line nearly 10 years after 9/11. But if the US really wants to draws a line under these wars it needs to adopt very different policies from those which it is now pursuing.


The US and other NATO forces must now withdraw all troops from Afghanistan. The capture or killing of bin Laden was a stated aim when the attack began in October 2001 -- 'wanted dead or alive' in the words of George Bush. Since that time, tens if not hundreds of thousands have died in Afghanistan, the Taliban have gained in strength, and the pro US government is one of the most corrupt in the world. There is no justification for the war.
The US and Britain should remind themselves of the grievances which bin Laden claimed in 2001: the presence of US troops in the Middle East; the treatment of the Palestinians; and the continued sanctions against Iraq. All of these grievances have worsened in the last ten years. There are now western troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, US bases all over the region, and an intervention including troops and airstrikes in Libya. The Palestinians suffer even more, and have been subject to aerial attack by Israel. Iraq suffers full scale occupation as a result of the war in 2003.
The war has been extended into Pakistan, not just with Special Forces operations such as the killing of bin Laden, but with drone attacks which have killed thousands of Pakistanis and created great instability in the country.
The US and its allies have followed a policy of backing dictators and despots across the Middle East. Only the uprisings of the peoples in these countries has in any way altered that policy, and even now, while waging war in Libya, the west turns a blind eye to the atrocities in Bahrain and the repression in Saudi Arabia.
The war against Libya is not about humanitarian intervention but about the western powers _ especially the former colonial powers in North Africa_ trying to regain control of the region. The airstrikes should stop immediately and all troops including Special Forces and advisers should be withdrawn.
These policies have not helped to end terrorism, but have made it more likely. Al Qaeda barely existed outside Afghanistan 10 years ago; now it is a presence in a number of Middle Eastern countries. The latest events will in all likelihood lead to more attacks by al Qaeda, including in Europe and the US. The only way to end terrorism is to change the policies which create space for it to flourish in the first place.

[Sam_b]

Also, could the pictures of dead people all be put in Spoiler tags please? They are a bit upsetting.

[Sasha]

teabagger comment @ the dailypaul:

Historically:
Communists always make announcements on May first !

:lol:

more lolz:

Republican and Truther Commenters Are Outraged That Obama Announced Osama bin Laden's Death (http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/05/01/republican-and-truther-commenters-are-outraged-that-obama-announced-osama-bin-ladens-death)

Posted by Paul Constant (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/ArticleArchives?author=17693) on Sun, May 1, 2011 at 10:19 PM

I generally try not to link to racist right-wing site Atlas Shrugs (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-is-dead.html) very often because it's even more repulsive than the usual right wingnut sites. But this comment is indicative of the way the right-wing blogosphere is dying inside:

Not sure if I believe this.
Really - the timing of this is VERY suspicious.
Obama's ratings are in the toilet. Trump forced him to submit a forged B.C. Jerome Corsi's book is about to roast the Loser in Chief and now Bin Laden is killed.
Hmmmmmm. Very suspicious. Me thinks this could very well be nothing but an attempt to manufacture brownie points.
If the White House can put out a blatantly faked birth certificate, they can CERTAINLY make up a story about Bin Laden being killed. After all, how can any of us stupid Americans prove it wrong?
Don't believe this one, my friends.
RedState (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/05/01/osama-bin-laden-is-now-several-thousand-degrees-fahrenheit-in-perpetuity/) commenter aesthete can't believe Obama had the nerve to announce bin Laden's death:

Amazing. Obama is taking credit for OBL's capture/death in his speech
Absolutely incredible.
acat agrees:

Absolutely predictible, Asthete.
The man’s ego knows no bounds.
Much more, including a bunch of conspiracies from the Ron Paul nuts, after the jump.
AceinTX:

He said "I directed Petreous to make Killing or capturing OBL Priorit #1
As if it wasn’t a Priority for Bush…
and yess it was I…I…I…Me…me…me… throughout the announcement.
He did get around to giving credit to the people involved in the fire fight but not till he made sure he told everybody how proud he is of himself and what a great man and leader he is.
Conservativecurmudgeon:

Humble Spirit is not a virtue I would ascribe to BO.
In fact, sitting here, I’m not sure WHAT virtues I would ascribe to the ‘Bamster. I guess he pronounces his “S’ss” with clarity and vigor. And his suits look good on him. And I like that he swims occasionally with his family. Other than that…
I am reading George Bush’s “Decision Points” at the moment, and the differences between a confident, humble, loving Commander in Chief and a virulent, pip-squeak Marxist ideologue narcissist who detests the projection of American power are stunning in the context of cold, hard reality.
Barack Obama taking credit for the killing of Osama Dust Bin Laden is akin to the Batboy taking credit for the World Series Win. Yeah, he was there, but the bats would have made it to the plate without him.
From The Daily Paul (http://www.dailypaul.com/163322/breaking-obama-to-make-statement-at-1030pm):

Historically:
Communists always make announcements on May first !

OBL has been dead for years. 911 was an inside job.

Whew!
Wow. Don't you feel safer now that he's dead!?!! (Like 10 yrs. ago). Won't you sleep so much better?? (Watch the puppet on the left...)
Gotta wonder what kinda diversion tactic/false flag this is. Dollar crash? Anyone??
This one is in relation to the crowds in front of the White House that spontaneously gathered to cheer the news:

it might be staged
I think there's a better than even chance that the crowd was brought in - where would they all have come from late on a Sunday night? Who do you know that would go cheer in front of the WH over an assassination? No one? I don't know anyone that would think to do that.
Indeed! Those folks over at Glenn Beck's The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/crowd-gathers-at-white-house-to-cheer-news-of-bin-ladens-death/) are picking apart footage of the crowd, trying to prove that no young people would ever be excited about a military victory, too. That whole thread is full of conspiracy gold, if you want to spend some hours chasing imaginary rabbits down holes.
Goodnight, crazy.

[Sasha]

also:
http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogimages/2011/05/01/1304311512-228214_1631120904584_1433480642_31166217_3698108_n .jpg

[jake williams]

So, I'm reading this morning's New York Times, going through all the stories they have about Bin Laden's death, and I come across this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02reconstruct-capture-osama-bin-laden.html

There is a lot of detailed backstory information here -- much more than a White House correspondent would get from a media kit handed out just before the announcement. This is the kind of stuff you don't hear for at least a week after an event like this.

I think the New York Times had the story -- they had either a) found out that the military and Obama knew where Bin Laden was and were sitting on him, or b) found out where Bin Laden was hiding, and then promptly told the White House. One way or another, it's pretty clear the Times colluded with the government to suppress the information they had. Certainly not the first time. Certainly won't be the last. But it's good to know -- another example to use.
The vibe I get from the article - not an unusual one for the NYT - is that they're basically saying they sat on the information because doing otherwise would interfere with the operation. Which frankly, it probably would. I don't have anything invested in killing OBL, but if you did, you'd probably sit on the info too.

[GPDP]

stuff

I called it. The crazies and conspiracy theorists are out in full force now. And you know what? They will be the only dissidents of the triumphalism currently sweeping the USA that will get any platform for their views in the mainstream media. Those who dissent because they know in the long-run the death of Osama changes little in terms of American imperialism will get zero attention, just as the only visible opposition to Obama's health care plan came from the far-right.

[~Spectre]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/05/03/world/03binladen_map/03binladen_map-articleInline.jpg

Does anyone else feel that the logistics of dumping him in the ocean so quickly, seem a bit...off.

[Dr Mindbender]

http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/presidents/Obama.jpg
Pictures or GTFO.

[GPDP]

Does anyone else feel that the logistics of dumping him in the ocean so quickly, seem a bit...off.

Wasn't he killed a week ago?

[Martin Blank]

What do you mean? That they didn't just google image search the word corpse or something else?

What I'm wondering is if that television network had told their audience that it was superimposing the beard on that face to show that it really was Bin Laden. Won't know unless someone translates the video footage from Urdu.

[~Spectre]

Wasn't he killed a week ago?

All the news reports say he was killed yesterday. And there are tweets from the area commenting on military operations, and the compound in question is in flames.


Obviously that's all fakable, but this seems like one of those scenarios where upon hearing hooves, it's best to think horses and not zebras.

[Martin Blank]

I think more than likely, the White House simply fed the information to the Times as soon as they were ready to make the announcement. It's a pretty convenient plant for them.

The problem is that I'm not seeing this information in other media, except as a reprint or summary from the Times. That tells me the information was not part of any document dump to the press corps.


The vibe I get from the article - not an unusual one for the NYT - is that they're basically saying they sat on the information because doing otherwise would interfere with the operation. Which frankly, it probably would. I don't have anything invested in killing OBL, but if you did, you'd probably sit on the info too.

I agree. The Times reporting on the back story is too "clean" to be something thrown together at the last minute.

[Obs]

What I'm wondering is if that television network had told their audience that it was superimposing the beard on that face to show that it really was Bin Laden. Won't know unless someone translates the video footage from Urdu.
It's a picture of a live bin Laden superimposed on a picture of a random dead guy. It's a fake.

[Olentzero]

This is going to change very little as far as the war is concerned - since the original, unstated, goal was continued US dominance over Central Asia and the Middle East, this is just going to be used to justify keeping the war going. If anything it'll be used to justify expanding the war into Pakistan, since clearly the terrorists got away with hiding there and they have to be rooted out.

Interesting bit about the photographs! Of course who 'shopped it and why is still undecided, but given the abysmally low quality of the thing, I'd bet it's more likely the local Pakistani TV network aiming for some shock value ratings rather than some clumsy State Department official hoping the Internet-savvy portion of the world won't notice.

I love the bit in psycho's thread about the crowd around the White House being staged. I lived a couple blocks from the WH from 2003-2005 and the area is loaded with bars. Not to mention there's a large subway stop serving two lines about a block away, and that it's less than 30 min walking distance from Adams Morgan and Dupont Circle, two major nightlife areas in northwest DC. Fool don't know his Washington.

[Sasha]

Not to mention the nerve of teabaggers to accuse anyone of staging crowds

[~Spectre]

I like how I'm already seeing "conspiracy theorist!!!" thrown at people questioning the official story, by the same right wing loons that were taking up the "birth certificate" issue.

[Stand Your Ground]

Wow. Just wow...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kill-Osama-Bin-Laden/279920420795

[piet11111]

I find it hard to believe someone with as much experience as Bin Laden would actually stick around for months in the same town.

[Chambered Word]

Wow. Just wow...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kill-Osama-Bin-Laden/279920420795

Looks like that page is maintained by your average 13 year old Xbox Live user.

[Olentzero]

Not to mention the nerve of teabaggers to accuse anyone of staging crowdsExcellent point. I'd forgotten about that.

[Martin Blank]

It's a picture of a live bin Laden superimposed on a picture of a random dead guy. It's a fake.

Well of course it's a fake. The question, though, is whether or not the corpse shown actually is Bin Laden, and the beard was 'shopped to try to clarify that.

[Princess Luna]

Wow. Just wow...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kill-Osama-Bin-Laden/279920420795



It seems like I have received some negative responses from members of the Muslim community and to be clear I DO NOT has Muslims or members of any religion, just the extremists that believe it's ok to terrorize and fatally harm innocent lives like women and children and claim victory to "their" higher power. Osama Bin Laden is a douche that needs to be removed. And by removed, I mean stabbed in the face with spork!
:laugh: i guess he does not has Muslims or members of any religion

[Desperado]

Bush: "No matter how long it takes, justice will be done.".

George Bush is still alive. Justice does take a long time.

[Rakhmetov]

What does the U.S. prove by killing Bin Laden???? They prove nothing except their desperation to show a body of a symbol of "terrorism". It's a joke. :confused:

They haven't eliminated terrorism as a tool and they haven't destroyed the source of terrorism which is capitalist imperialism. :(

[Obs]

Well of course it's a fake. The question, though, is whether or not the corpse shown actually is Bin Laden, and the beard was 'shopped to try to clarify that.
It's not bin Laden. Look at the nose and the overall shape of the face - it looks nothing like him.

[Princess Luna]

What does the U.S. prove by killing Bin Laden???? They prove nothing except their desperation to show a body of a symbol of "terrorism". It's a joke. :confused:

They haven't eliminated terrorism as a tool and they haven't destroyed the source of terrorism which is capitalist imperialism. :(
It is symbolic, now the U.S. can toot it's horn and talk about how swell the "war on terror" is going. Despite the fact Bin Laden is most likely going have even more influence as a martyr.

[tachosomoza]

The Islamist forums are whining their asses off. When they stop, they're gonna start some heavy regrouping. This is gonna be a pretty valuable recruitment toll for them.

[Sword and Shield]

:laugh: i guess he does not has Muslims or members of any religion

He can haz cheeseburgers, though.

[RadioRaheem84]

So let me get this straight? The US creates all these villains and then congratulates themselves when they take them out?

Noreiga, Hussein, Bin Lade, War on Drugs escalated by former Contra rebels, etc.

[thriller]

Now that Osama dead does that mean the US will stop their wars in the Middle East? Nope, I doubt it. So who gives a shit? Another thing, I heard of all these celebrations going on around the country (US) about his death. But yet they get pissed when other countries celebrate the death of US citizens/soldiers/whatever. People who celebrate death are fuckers.

[praxis1966]

Bush: "No matter how long it takes, justice will be done.".

George Bush is still alive. Justice does take a long time.

So is Henry fucking Kissinger. What's you're point? :lol:

[Dunk]

The image being circulated around the underworld of the net is obviously fake. There are some things I'd like to say about this image, though.

1 - The unlikelihood that the USG would stage the killing of OBL. It's such an insanely risky scenario for the USG - to falsely claim OBL is dead and if he released some sort of video claiming he was alive - the amount of face the USG would lose would be monumental. Catastrophic for the USG, really. My guess is that there are plenty of pictures of his corpse that USG has taken, and possible DNA evidence it has compiled as well as their supposed "facial recognition" evidence, whatever that means. Such a claim by the USG is simply too large and risky to be false.

2 - That likelihood that the image was made by some random person as some sort of hoax. I saw this image being circulated very soon after the story broke. While the tampering with of any purported official video or picture of bin Laden's corpse would almost certainly be forbidden by the USG because such a thing would be impossible to hide from the public. The picture is simply too amateurish to be official.

3 - The suggestion by Uncle Sam that the picture that had the beard superimposed on it is actually OBL is a possibility. I don't think it likely for exactly the same reasons I listed above - I haven't seen the video clip from this television story yet. I've seen a still supposedly photographed of a tv set showing it, and the still as it appeared on the tv set without the tv graphics swirling around it. The reason why I'm suggesting it's a possibility is sort of a morbid one. It may not be common knowledge, but when a person is shot in the head there is a grotesque distortion of the face and head that immediately occurs when shot. Not to mention that although the nose doesn't look like his, if you were both shot in the head and subsequently smashed your face into the ground, your nose probably wouldn't look like your nose did before the trauma happened to it.

The reason why I'm bothering to write this post is to discourage fellow leftists - who tend to have a firm, realistic grasp on the way the world really works from becoming conspiracy theorists. I suggest we wait until more evidence is released before jumping to fantastic conclusions.

[Sword and Shield]

So is Henry fucking Kissinger. What's you're point? :lol:

I'm hoping both of them live long enough for us to administer justice to them.

[Dimmu]

I talked to some of my workmates today and many of them said that the war is over now. :laugh:

[praxis1966]

I'm hoping both of them live long enough for us to administer justice to them.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Robert McNamara got the privilege of dieing quietly in his sleep having lived his entire natural life freely.

[Dunk]

Thanks to The Vegan Marxist for posting the story in another thread, the photos in question have been revealed to be an old fake from 2009.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake?CMP=twt_gu

[ʇsıɥɔɹɐuɐ ıɯɐbıɹo]

DEAD DEAD DEAD

Though it wouldn't surprise me if AQ released a video of him claiming to be alive, a pre-recorded video just for this occasion.

[Terminator X]

From what I can gather of today's jingoistic interweb clusterfuck, both liberals and conservatives are on board with assassinations, mass killings, and blind support of the US military; the only difference is the ongoing pissing match debating who should get the credit, Obama or Bush.

[praxis1966]

From what I can gather of today's jingoistic interweb clusterfuck, both liberals and conservatives are on board with assassinations, mass killings, and blind support of the US military; the only difference is the ongoing pissing match debating who should get the credit, Obama or Bush.

Yeah, I noticed that last night on FailBook. I've conservative and liberal folks on my friends' list there and both groups were trying to claim the scalp.

[SacRedMan]

Wait, they found him, killed him, and than dumped him in see and than Obama says "He's dead!"

I don't sense truth in here.

[Rooster]

This has all been done for domestic political gain. The idea that if yout take out single people would suppress a social movement is stupid. If they really wanted to suppress the idea of islamic terrorism then they would have just let him fade away out of public memory.

[Triple A]

I guess Waldo won...


Anyway, I see that his seath will have an impact in the american people but islamic terrorism aint mafia and their ideals will not stop spreading by killing bin Landen. I think this will turn him into a martyr and boost his cause, but the US had to delt with him so I guess there was nothing else to be done.

[∞]

Obama is probably doing the dougie right now.

[Ligeia]

Anyway, I see that his seath will have an impact in the american people but islamic terrorism aint mafia and their ideals will not stop spreading by killing bin Landen.

Except killing a capo, a mafia boss, wouldn't stop a mafia because they are driven by the market.

On another note....I don't think that this was done totally purposeless. Also...will the U.S. government change anything...policywise? If not, then I don't see why some people are cheering this (though they could make policies more restrictive or intrusive,too).

[Fawkes]

Another U.S. soldier killed.

[grooverider]

Today all the leftists who weren't on the blacklist are officially on the blacklist for pointing out the fucking waste of time, effort, lives, and money on the entire issue.

HI EVERYONE.

[t.shonku]

I don’t know if Laden is dead anyways let us assume he is but I am still skeptical on how he was caught in the first place after all he made a fool out of USA for past 10-13 yrs .


Anyways I was watching BBC where I saw wacky American guys and girls coming out in street and shouting “peace at last” and “we can sleep in peace” and many other shits like that. But I think it is far from over the war has just entered a new phase, if there is any judo fighter here you may have heard of a term which goes something like this “ when your opponent hits the ground that doesn’t mean the fight is over it has just entered a new phase, be ready for some floor based combat …..” . The same holds true in this case , remember Al-Qaida is an organization which doesn’t exactly have any central command it operates in remote cells therefore death of the central boss really doesn’t matter, death of Laden will only add fuel into the fiery mind of this radicals and in order to avenge the death of Laden they will carryout more attacks , Laden might be a terrorist for the west but for many Arabs he is a liberator therefore death of Laden may also become turning point in Arab uprising, the wars will continue as avenge for death of Laden will become rallying cry for new mujahideens and this will bring more fresh more dedicated ready to die youths into the battle, the Taliban is already promising reprisals , you people just see that death of Laden will only accelerate deaths and maiming of American soldier who are already in Afghanistan not only that it will further unstabilize Pakistan because the Pak leadership will be targeted violently by extremists.

[Triple A]

Things i just read on the webz:

Bin Laden shouldnt have put his adress in PSN.

Bin Laden shouldnt have bought an Iphone.

[Robespierre Richard]

I was reading the Washington Post's obit of bin Laden. His actions seemed to have a pattern, I think. He began by doing really high-profile stuff while doing little physically, sponsoring/transferring donations for the mujahadeen fighters in Democratic Afghanistan but from there moved onto stuff with a smaller profile but greater impact - fighting the Soviets physically, getting involved with ideas of anti-Americanism. Those things actually did more to lower his profile, as the Saudis tried to sweep him under the rug and revoke his citizenship. More physical action on the other hand, which peaked with the September 11 attacks, because after that his group had to battle the US/NATO coalition. After that and the whole escalation which he wasn't able to beat he died as basically a person with almost no profile, in a small fortress in the suburbs of Islamabad. It's almost like 9/11 was the one thing he was preparing for, after which everything would go smoothly "like it's on butter," but never prepared for the retaliation, only driving himself into more solitude.

[coda]

<<Does anyone else feel that the logistics of dumping him in the ocean so quickly, seem a bit...off.>>

yeah, it wouldn't be surprising if he reemerges (on land) alive at some point in the future. didn't he have a whole slew of body doubles?

[☭The Revolution☭]

George W. Bush is probably going to come back, put him in a sarcophagus and kill him over and over again forever.


The first sci fi geek who gets this wins a red star.

[tachosomoza]

I wonder what they're going to do with the house.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

Does this make Luis Posada Carriles the most dangerous terrorist still on the loose?

[Rafiq]

I sense something bad is going to happen, and I also feel like we aren't being told enough.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Does this make Luis Posada Carriles the most dangerous terrorist still on the loose?

nope, barack obama.

[Tim Finnegan]

I don’t know if Laden is dead anyways let us assume he is but I am still skeptical on how he was caught in the first place after all he made a fool out of USA for past 10-13 yrs .
I think the leading theory is that somebody in the Pakistani military or intelligence service ratted him out. He was literally down the street from a military academy, so they knew damn well that he was there.

[tachosomoza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDyrkU0WAQ

Tell me this doesn't split your sides. :laugh:

[Misanthrope]

You guys should have seen my high school today. Kids yelling militaristic jargon, about how it's so bad ass that America killed a terrorist leader. These kids have no common sense or even general curiosity in regards to current events and no interest in free thinking. The American youth is swallowed by a military loving culture. This is entertainment for them, they chant USA USA, watch their sports and play Call of Duty, no philosophical thought or anything generally intelligent.

[Nolan]

You guys should have seen my high school today. Kids yelling militaristic jargon, about how it's so bad ass that America killed a terrorist leader. These kids have no common sense or even general curiosity in regards to current events and no interest in free thinking. The American youth is swallowed by a military loving culture. This is entertainment for them, they chant USA USA, watch their sports and play Call of Duty, no philosophical thought or anything generally intelligent.

Bull, they know "freedom!!11" like the vast majority of Americans and any good neoliberal internationally.

[Dunk]

I think the leading theory is that somebody in the Pakistani military or intelligence service ratted him out. He was literally down the street from a military academy, so they knew damn well that he was there.

It's probable that the ISI or sympathetic or corrupt elements of the ISI knew of bin Laden's location. I think it was within the Pakistani upper class's interest to maintain the status quo. The status quo being, try to discourage or limit American incursion deep into Pakistan to hunt for either Taliban or al Qaida operatives for as long as possible, so that there was no threat to the end of OEF and American aid continued to flow. War, after all, is a profitable business for those in positions of power.

I've heard more open discussion in the MSM of this being a game changer for what was already the souring relations between DC and Islamabad. It's a tenuous political alliance that I think is going to disintegrate the second the USG finally leaves Afghanistan...that is, if it doesn't invade Pakistan from Afghanistan.

[tachosomoza]

It's probable that the ISI or sympathetic or corrupt elements of the ISI knew of bin Laden's location. I think it was within the Pakistani upper class's interest to maintain the status quo. The status quo being, try to discourage or limit American incursion into Pakistan to hunt for either Taliban or al Qaida operatives, so that there was no threat to the end of OEF and American aid continued to flow. War, after all, is a profitable business for those in positions of power.

I've heard more open discussion in the MSM of this being a game changer for what was already the souring relations between DC and Islamabad. It's a tenuous political alliance that I think is going to disintegrate the second the USG finally leaves Afghanistan...that is, if it doesn't invade Pakistan from Afghanistan.

We're invading Pakistan. The American jingos won't have anything less. Obama's going to get reelected off this shit, and we get 15 more years in South Asia and the Middle East. End of story.

[∞]

I know it was a joke but it was really upsetting.

Some kids in my class (I am of Arab descent), said jokingly that my family had ties with Bin Laden. This really pissed me off, for all my personal struggles against my Muslim family (I'm an Atheist and they force me to read the Quran etc.) and against these sentiments...I get labeled (even jokingly) as a terrorist?

Then they ask me why I'm such a misanthropic bastard.

[RadioRaheem84]

Does this mean that they're going to escalate the war into Pakistan?

There are reports coming out about possible Pakistani intelligence being linked to Al Qaeda and the safe harboring of Bin Laden.

[L.A.P.]

I know it was a joke but it was really upsetting.

Some kids in my class (I am of Arab descent), said jokingly that my family had ties with Bin Laden. This really pissed me off, for all my personal struggles against my Muslim family (I'm an Atheist and they force me to read the Quran etc.) and against these sentiments...I get labeled (even jokingly) as a terrorist?

Then they ask me why I'm such a misanthropic bastard.

Sucks man, I get this shit sometimes too because I'm half-Indian. The worst part about this is that I just so happen to stay home from school today so I'm worried if they're going to make jokes about me crying over his death or something.

[ComradeR]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_bi_ge/as_pakistan_bin_laden;_ylt=AgM8_27iG0AmHlyIXx06ufA D_b4F;_ylu=X3oDMTJvdHNoZTR0BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTA yL2FzX3Bha2lzdGFuX2Jpbl9sYWRlbgRjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzIEc 2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNiaW5sYWRlbnNsdXg-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_us_pakistan;_ylt=AjFioTwygMfsu_LiTOBptZxL6ysC;_ ylu=X3oDMTJodWp0ZDYxBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTAyL3VzX3 VzX3Bha2lzdGFuBGNwb3MDNgRwb3MDNgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0 b3JpZXMEc2xrA3Vzc2VuZGluZ21peA--
Looks like they're already starting to build their case to send troops into Pakistan their already implying that they were harboring him. Watch in a while the US will claim their also harboring al-Zawahiri and we have to go in just like Afghanistan.

[tachosomoza]

Just what the Indians want.

[Dunk]

An important problem with the possible invasion of Pakistan is that it is armed with nuclear weapons. Thus far, nuclear weapons have been used by states as a sort of insurance policy against foreign invasion. Currently, I doubt the insurance policy won't continue to hold - the Pakistani state seems much more firmly in control now than it has in previous years, and the premise of war to prevent Islamists from coming into the ownership of nuclear weapons is non-existent right now. This isn't to say such a premise couldn't synthesize, or presented as "Well the Pakistani government is already saturated with Islamists and those sympathetic to al Qaida and the Taliban, if they hid bin Laden, how can they be trusted with the possession of nuclear weapons?" If the war drums start beating on Pakistan, we must all act to prevent it - and I believe the build up to such a possible conflict has the capacity to awaken anti-war activism to levels not seen since Vietnam, especially considering that a possible conventional war between Pakistani and American forces could demand the reinstitution of a draft. Though, I must reiterate that I think such a conflict unlikely at this point. I think those in power will attempt to avoid a scenario which invites the possibility of nuclear war and the reinstitution of the draft like the plague. Conventional destruction and occupation is much more profitable for the bourgeoisie and much more palatable to the mostly uninvolved Western masses.

[tachosomoza]

An important problem with the possible invasion of Pakistan is that it is armed with nuclear weapons. Thus far, nuclear weapons have been used by states as a sort of insurance policy against foreign invasion. Currently, I doubt the insurance policy won't continue to hold - the Pakistani state seems much more firmly in control now than it has in previous years, and the premise of war to prevent Islamists from coming into the ownership of nuclear weapons is non-existent right now. This isn't to say such a premise couldn't synthesize, or presented as "Well the Pakistani government is already saturated with Islamists and those sympathetic to al Qaida and the Taliban, if they hid bin Laden, how can they be trusted with the possession of nuclear weapons?" If the war drums start beating on Pakistan, we must all act to prevent it - and I believe the build up to such a possible conflict has the capacity to awaken anti-war activism to levels not seen since Vietnam, especially considering that a possible conventional war between Pakistani and American forces could demand the reinstitution of a draft. Though, I must reiterate that I think such a conflict unlikely at this point. I think those in power will attempt to avoid a scenario which invites the possibility of nuclear war and the reinstitution of the draft like the plague. Conventional destruction and occupation is much more profitable for the bourgeoisie and much more palatable to the mostly uninvolved Western masses.

I SERIOUSLY don't think the Pakistanis would commit suicide by playing with the United States and nukes. They aren't stupid.

[Misanthrope]

I know it was a joke but it was really upsetting.

Some kids in my class (I am of Arab descent), said jokingly that my family had ties with Bin Laden. This really pissed me off, for all my personal struggles against my Muslim family (I'm an Atheist and they force me to read the Quran etc.) and against these sentiments...I get labeled (even jokingly) as a terrorist?

Then they ask me why I'm such a misanthropic bastard.

Don't put up with that shit, let them know you're serious and tell them to stop. If they don't then take further action..

[Dunk]

I SERIOUSLY don't think the Pakistanis would commit suicide by playing with the United States and nukes. They aren't stupid.

It's not that the Pakistani government would be stupid enough to use tactical nuclear weapons within Pakistani borders, say, within Waziristan, the Tribal Areas, or even in the Arabian Sea - it's whether it would be desperate enough to use them to prevent invasion. There are a thousand different possible scenarios that could lead to the possible use of nuclear weapons between two nuclear armed states.

Again, I think such a thing is unlikely at this point.

[Agent Ducky]

I don't know what's worse, the super nationalist "USA! USA! FREEDOM!!#$!#[email protected]$%#@!1131353" types, or the girl who seriously asked me "Who is Osama bin Laden?"

[∞]

The latter.

[Tim Finnegan]

The latter.
I don't think that there's been a mass movement comprised of people who don't know how to use Google that ever took over a country.

[RedHal]

don't think the yanks are stupid enough to launch an invasion into Pakistan. They've already got high ranking politicians and military personnel in their pockets, there are more clever ways to destabilize a nuclear state.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I wonder what they're going to do with the house.

Probably let it out to the next high level but discreet ISI asset.

Seriously, bin Laden apparently lived in Abbatabad for at least 5 years and possibly a lot longer.He had part of his family with him. His compound was almost across the road from important Pakistani military institutes. The ISI or factions therof were protecting him. The story about the intercepted courier doesn't quite add up. For some reason the ISI decided to sacrifice Osama.

As the WSWS says, Obama's speech was reveling when he said he decided to make Osama his main priority, indicating that it was far from a priority earlier.

Also, this may sound bizarre, but Osama's compound was known about for some time. I wonder if the planned Navy Seal raid was deliberately planned so as not to interfere w/the royal wedding, both to make sure maximum attention was paid to Obama's "triumph" and also so as not to distract from another ruling class indoctrination spectacle.

[Nolan]

I'd say Pakistan is on a distinguished path right now. A little aesthetic change, full pull-out of the western orbit, and there you go. Another rogue state to bomb.

[piet11111]

George W. Bush is probably going to come back, put him in a sarcophagus and kill him over and over again forever.


The first sci fi geek who gets this wins a red star.

Stargate !


don't think the yanks are stupid enough to launch an invasion into Pakistan. They've already got high ranking politicians and military personnel in their pockets, there are more clever ways to destabilize a nuclear state.

Yeah like support an Islamist insurrection ....... oh wait thats what they are trying to prevent right ? :D

[Wanted Man]

http://i.imgur.com/1ZtvR.jpg

As someone else said about a similar picture, this stuff is great for Democrats. Now their president is also finally a badass.

[Olentzero]

I don't think that there's been a mass movement comprised of people who don't know how to use Google that ever took over a country.So there were no revolutions before Google was invented?

[Q]

Just sharing a nice song:

Ktbxi8FpK90

[RedSquare]

I believe he's dead, not one of the conspiracy theorists though I would like some proof.

According to the BBC, Bin Laden was unarmed but "resisting" the raid when he was shot at least twice, once in the chest and once above the left eye. They've got pictures of his remains from a hanger in Afghanistan post-raid, and also one of him cleaned up before they put him in the shroud and dumped him into the sea.

It's likely that the funeral one will be the one they release, they can't really have people see the effect of imperialism in it's purest form, as a dressed up body is a little less controversial.

[Comrade J]

Just sharing a nice song:

Ktbxi8FpK90

Nice song Q; at first I thought this was gonna be some nationalist tune during the first verse, though I see now it was satirical.

[CHE with an AK]

Those seeking a relevant metaphor on the Osama Bin Laden narrative should read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein …


uGm-4MRuGF0

[Tim Finnegan]

So there were no revolutions before Google was invented?
I honestly have no idea what point you think you're making, but I'd suggest that you re-read the posts to which I was responding.

[Die Neue Zeit]

After a social discussion and news, I've come to believe that Bin Laden is indeed dead.

However, he might have died a few years ago, and various discussions at that time suggested this. This operation could very well have been a cover-up for the earlier failure to nab him. Why wasn't the man of that house, perhaps a sympathizer or terror financier, shot in the arms and/or legs and taken alive? How did the US get Bin Laden's DNA in the first place?

[Sasha]

After a social discussion and news, I've come to believe that Bin Laden is indeed dead.

However, he might have died a few years ago, and various discussions at that time suggested this. This operation could very well have been a cover-up for the earlier failure to nab him. Why wasn't the man of that house, perhaps a sympathizer or terror financier, shot in the arms and/or legs and taken alive? How did the US get Bin Laden's DNA in the first place?

not really an big mystery, they didnt have his DNA, never claimed they did, they did have however the dna of multiple of his family members including many of his countless kids.
anyway, al-qaida just released an statement that bin laden indeed died in this raid.