Jobs and careers

[TC]

We have a lot of members who are teenagers or who are in college and who are still trying to figure out what to do with themselves once they're in the 'real world.' Given the economy, so many people face job insecurity or can't find a job out of school, or are struggling to get by - but some have relatively stable fulfilling situations. The point of this thread is to discuss and share peoples' experiences and expectations around their jobs, current, past, and anticipated.

-If you're in college/university or highschool now, say what your current educational status is (year in school, type of college/university, major for the u.s. or course for the u.k.) - and 1. do you know what you want to do for a living - if you do, what are your hopes and fears about it 2. if you don't know, what are you considering, what factors influence your choice, what worries you and what motivates you.

-If you're working full time now, say what job, how long you've had it, and how you find it and how you got it in the first place. Do you regret the path you took or are you content and satisfied or somewhere in between? Whats the best and worst thing about it.

-If you're unemployed, share something about how you've tried to look for work, what jobs you've had in the past, and what your experience has been looking for work and dealing with unemployment benefits (if any exist) in your country.

-Anyone can share what the best job they've had was and what the worst job they've had was (or just one or the other if they prefer). But give some detail about why you found it the way you found it.

-Feel free to comment on other people's answers (in a respectful and non-judgmental way).

[Princess Luna]

I just got out of High School and will start collage next fall, most likely i will end up with a worthless degree in history, working for a terrible and low paying job. I hate not having any natural talent or skill :(

[TC]

I just got out of High School and will start collage next fall, most likely i will end up with a worthless degree in history, working for a terrible and low paying job. I hate not having any natural talent or skill :(


I don't really believe there is such a thing as natural talent or skill - people cultivate and develop talents and skills with training and practice.

Instead of thinking pessimistically - what would you like to do with your life if you could? You only have one life to lead, you should make the most of it and not have to dread the future. Does anything excite you or interest you? Capitalism leads people to accept a fatalistic lot for themselves but you can resist that (even if it ultimately isn't successful) and try for something that could make you happy.

You aren't even in college yet! You have so much opportunity to figure out new things and develop new interests.

[Dumb]

-If you're working full time now, say what job, how long you've had it, and how you find it and how you got it in the first place. Do you regret the path you took or are you content and satisfied or somewhere in between? Whats the best and worst thing about it.

-What Job: Full-time "pricing assistant" for an organic foods distributor. Basically, I enter prices into a computer all day, get told that I did it incorrectly, and then go back to do it all over again.

PS: The company that pays me is the reason why your organic food is so damn expensive. We have about a 35% markup on almost all items - and for every dollar of markup, close to sixty cents goes to profit.

-How Long: I started working there at 8 AM Pacific Time on September 21st, 2010 (though my normal hours are now 6:30 AM to 3 PM).

-How I Find It: Dull, boring, rote, and demoralizing. Typing digits into a computer all day requires zero cognitive thought, corporate clocking-in rules have turned the staff into clock-watchers, and even supervisors are starting to complain about the company trying to turn employees into robots.

I'm the first male in the history of my department; I honestly don't care, because I get along better with women anyway, but my manager had me sit with another department across the building because she thought I "won't be able to handle sharing an office with a bunch of women" - direct quote. As a result, my manager and supervisor both forgot about me for about five months and didn't bother to train me...so lo and behold, after five months, I didn't know squat!

(I don't want to sound like I'm making myself out to be some poor, oppressed male - just pointing out my situation and how it got there. Don't read it as a commentary on gender politics, because that's not how I intend it).

To cut a long story short, I now sit between my manager and my supervisor all day so they can catch me if I'm slacking off (they don't get that it's hard to do a good job in this company if nobody...trains you). It all comes down to the fact that it's a growing company, corporate HQ refuses to expand payroll, and as a result everybody is in a constant rush, working too hard, too long, and too fast - and that means nobody's really there to train me. As the new guy, I'm the convenient fall guy.

Hey, a job's a job, right?

-How I Got It: My female progenitor works in another department, and has a lot of respect within the company. That was my "in." That, and I've always been good in interviews; I think well on my feet.

-Do You Regret the Path You Took: Yes.

When I was in college, I talked myself into thinking that I couldn't ever make it into academia. The problem is, that's about the only place that fits my "skills" and "interests." Now I'm stuck in a job where I'm basically a robot. Because of where the job is located, I'm also stuck in a cold, isolating neighborhood. If you exclude conversations consisting of my bosses telling me that I suck at my job, I haven't had an actual person-to-person conversation in months. When I go for a walk, I'm the only person on the sidewalk for miles.

I tried switching course, naturally. Couldn't get into AmeriCorps...was so close to getting in to a PhD program for next year, but one of the professors writing me a letter of recommendation flaked out at the last minute, so that quickly went to hell. I then applied to teach in Honduras, and now that's looking like that's not going to work either...eh, while I'm whining, I might as well mention that I got dumped during this span as well, and any friends I had all scattered around the country. Ha ha.

Looking around at the path I've taken and the life I've built, I realize that the one thing I've got going for me is financial stability. I have literally zero debt, and a few thousand dollars in savings (I make $14/hr and I'm too lazy to buy anything). Other than that, though...I can't shake this feeling that my best days are behind me. I whine about it, but I realize that the only person I have to blame is me. I chose this.

Summary? Your job determines so much more than your occupation. Don't take the decision lightly.

-Best Thing About It: Best - starvation evaded. Second-best - the work isn't so hard on the body at all, except on my wrists.

-Worst Thing About It: Management keeps chewing me out daily for not knowing skills they were supposed to teach me; the job is located in a suburban region where there's nothing to do, nobody to meet and neighbors are in name only.


-Feel free to comment on other people's answers (in a respectful and non-judgmental way).

If anybody has a judgmental, disrespectful comment to make on my answers, go ahead. I'm too attention-starved to turn down any form of attention, and that applies to negative attention as well as the positive. (And, to be honest, I realize that I spent a good half of this post engaging in low-level griping. I'm sincerely sorry for subjecting you to this).

[Dumb]

I just got out of High School and will start collage next fall, most likely i will end up with a worthless degree in history, working for a terrible and low paying job. I hate not having any natural talent or skill :(

If you can manage to land a job as a history teacher (even "just" high school), there's actually a lot of room for creativity. You have to let yourself interpret the material - put your own mind into it, your own creativity, into your profession.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I work in the commercial fishing industry. I was born into the role, and I've done it pretty much all my life (I'm supposedly the 8th generation in a line of commercial fishermen and whalers, stretching back to the 17th century). Fishing is one of those jobs like farming, in that there's still a strong heriditary aspect to it.

pros of fishing:

- you can make a ton of money, or at least you can in Alaska...I'm not exactly sure what the industry is like down south, where my parents and extended family worked for a long time. You can make enough money over the course of a couple months (or, in the case of high-line crab, weeks) to sustain you for the rest of the year.

- Beautiful and active work environment.

cons:

- Often the work is very hard. Long days, no or very little sleep for days, or sometimes weeks on end. There's actually a phrase for the vacant, 100 yard stare that fishermen get from crab fishing out on the Aleutian Chain: we call it the "Aleutian Stare", and you can only get it from military interrogation-levels of sleep deprivation.

- The work is dirty. Guts, slime, etc. It can be dangerous, too. All fishing towns have memorials. The one in my town has many names on it.

- Participation in a bizarre and unstable commodity market. It's often like gambling...it's not a job for someone who wants a steady, predictable wage.



I love my job, though. I don't think that I'll ever stop doing it, as long as I can. I could never work in an office.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Also, I've worked as an industrial painter & valet. Those jobs pretty much sucked, though.

[Dumb]

I would suggest that you write about your experiences, if not for the fact that anybody interested would have already seen "Deadliest Catch" dozens of times.

[black magick hustla]

i dont really care what i do because the only thing i can see myself doing is writing but that wont happen so ill do number crunching for lotsa money and see if im miserable if im miserable i guess im gonna move back to mexico and start a racket

[Devrim]

The worst thing that I ever had to do was on the killing line in a chicken factory.

Devrim

[Niccolò Rossi]

Also, I've worked as an industrial painter & valet. Those jobs pretty much sucked, though.

I work as an industrial painter. I don't find it that bad... It's dirty (sand blasting and lead disposal) and hot in summer, but it pays pretty well for a kid putting himself through uni. Most of my mates get less.

Nic.

[Niccolò Rossi]

I also study civil and environmental engineering at UTS. I'm in my second year. Still have to build bridges after the revolution or something like that, we can't all be sociology majors :cool:

Nic.

[StoneFrog]

I moved around a lot during to different countries, in my teens with my family, and have due to this found it hard to get into the job market. I moved back to UK, hoping to go to university and just like others the hike in fees makes it impossible for me to do.

I was hoping to take Computer Science, since i did spend most my late teenage years coding and fiddling with computers. I know i can easily do the work at uni for Computer Science, but i've just accepted that there is no way ill ever be able to attend. So now looking for a job ANY, but i never really had much job market experience like others my age, so im finding it a little hard.

I could sign up for the dole, but i kinda feel like i don't deserve it. So im staying with family.

[Broletariat]

I plan on majoring in math and becoming a secondary education math teacher, worried about that job market and the job's pay as well. I figured I could do something else with a math major if need be. I'm not opposed to moving around, even internationally, to find a job.

[RHIZOMES]

I think my employment prospects and situation are tied closely to one very integral part of my identity as someone with Aspergers Syndrome. Two important things that it has an affect on:
1) My ability to talk to strangers and have a completely non-awkward conversation is non-existent. Therefore I am unsuited for retail and service work. And in this economy, that's where someone in my status as an unqualified 20something is most likely to find work. Plus my high anxiety levels would probably cripple me in such an environment where i'd constantly be forced into uncomfortable social situations.
2) It gives me quite a strong intellect, which is the positive side. I went to University and am doing a BA because I, like many people who go to University, have no idea what the fuck to do. I found that I excelled at Sociology, and am able to grasp complex ideas relatively quickly. Plus I have the ability to balance my work ethic when required. Sometimes it has meant working all day every day for 3 weeks to get an A+ on a project with a large word count, or if I'm more confident get a similar mark while playing videogames most of my day.

I've been able to somehow make connections with some likeminded critical theory/Marxism/anti-capitalist intellectual types at University and it landed me an apprenticeship over the summer for a radical Marxist academic in my Sociology department. This means I will soon have a published co-authored book chapter (as an undergrad, no less) to my name that I can tout in any future CV. So hope is not all lost, even though I know the road into academia may be a hard and possibly fruitless one.

I want to try not because I have illusions about academia as an institution, but as an atheist who believes I only have one life to live, I want to try and pursue a skilled job/career in one of the only areas that interest me at for a comfortable living standard, without COMPLETELY selling my political beliefs out. I know it's most likely a hopeless enterprise due to capitalism's tendency to proletarianise humanities and social sciences, but i'm trying to aim my highest.

If I can't do that, I might use my BA as a launching pad for a post-grad in library studies/information management. Only other thing I can think of doing that I would like.

[HEAD ICE]

eh i'm majoring in computer information systems which i think means i apply the "latest technology" to solve "business problems" or basically a little eichmann for corporate america. people kept telling me to major in "something you enjoy", needless to say I would far more enjoy having a stable well paying job than dick around with a useless degree.

[SJBarley]

I am in my final year of secondary education in the UK. I will leave my secondary school with roughly 14 GCSEs (exams going as planned) and will be studying Classic Civilisation, History, English Literature and Government and Politics at a local college (I was offered a chance at a scholarship to a private institution but i turned this down on prinicple). I am looking to contribute to society in a meaningful way perhaps within the law system (as a prosecutor not an independent lawyer) but this is owing to the fact that I'm not entirely sure what other options I have with my given education route. Any advice gratefully accepted :)

[graymouser]

If you're working full time now, say what job, how long you've had it, and how you find it and how you got it in the first place.

I'm a software developer at a small (~100 people) consulting company that does work for other, similar-sized companies. I basically write code for custom ASP.Net / SQL Server intranets and websites. I've been here about five and a half years, and it's my second job in the field - I have a total of around seven and a half years experience. I got the job when I'd been laid off from my previous company basically because they couldn't afford to keep a second developer on. I knew somebody who used to work here but has since moved on.

Do you regret the path you took or are you content and satisfied or somewhere in between?

It's been a consistent paycheck through the recession, sometimes it's somewhat rewarding and other times it's a *****.

Whats the best and worst thing about it.

The best is that I can get online during work; the worst is that I have to track all my time throughout the day.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I work as an industrial painter. I don't find it that bad... It's dirty (sand blasting and lead disposal) and hot in summer, but it pays pretty well for a kid putting himself through uni. Most of my mates get less.

Nic.

I got paid minimum wage when I was doing it. It was the first experience I ever had with "punching in & punching out" on a jobsite, in a 30+ story construction project, in which I mostly sanded drywall. The job probably wouldn't have been so bad 1) if it wasn't so dirty, like you said, and hot, seeing as it was Texas in the summer, in a sealed concrete box, 2) if I could speak Spanish, as that's what was mostly spoken on the site, and 3) if my foreman wasn't such a tremendous dick.

On the one hand it did give me my first taste of prole culture, i.e. working for a wage on a schedule and having your boss be a dick. :sleep:

[Desperado]

I'm at sixth-form. I worry quite a bit about my life after Uni (if I get in). There's no job I could see myself enjoying other than perhaps teaching (but even that has an obvious load of baggage attached). I'd rather live a semi lumpen proletariat lifestyle, but whether I have the will to not conform, live without my current material luxuries or whether I see this is compatible with starting a happy family I don't know. I feel if I had a generic office commuter job I'd have accomplished nothing, but dropping out to be a smelly anarchist would probably accomplish nothing much either.

[TC]

I moved around a lot during to different countries, in my teens with my family, and have due to this found it hard to get into the job market. I moved back to UK, hoping to go to university and just like others the hike in fees makes it impossible for me to do.

Its really not impossible! You can get full tuition covered by the student loan company, a loan for your living costs, and if your family earns less than 25k gbp a year or so, an extra grant on top of that. See here for details: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/DG_194804

Please don't just assume that you can't go to university just because you might have to take out loans just like everyone else (who isn't rich) does.


I could sign up for the dole, but i kinda feel like i don't deserve it

Please do yourself a favor and sign up. Its not a matter of whether or not you "deserve" it, its a public entitlement and a form of progressive redistribution of wealth (which lefties ought to be for). Would you rather the government spend money on the military or on keeping peopleafloat when they don't have a job? I think the answer is obvious.

[I.O.T.M]

I signed up to a government funded apprenticeship scheme in January, I haven't heard anything from them since...

Edit: The stigma of going on jobseekers is awful. I hate how people think I'm some sort of work-shy sponge because I'm claiming money I need.

[communard71]

Dropped out of High school at 17 and joined the Marines. Four years later, went to school, got two Masters degrees and a teaching position after many years in hospital security, table-waiting, Americorps work, sub-teaching and other stuff. working to undermine the culture from the inside now.

[Tim Finnegan]

I have a diploma of some sort, I forget exactly what, in architecture, having only completed two years of study. I'm supposedly heading back to university next year to study history, but it's still up in the air as to whether that's actually going to happen. Mean time, I stack shelves in a small town super-market, but it's unsteady work (only contracted to half-time, the rest is where I can get it) and this town is a shithole, so whether it's for uni or another job, I plan to be up in Glasgow by the end of the year.

Really not sure what I'm after in the long run. Academia or teaching would be one option, I suppose, but right now I'm just looking to keep myself busy. Long as I don't end up stuck long-term in some sort of awful paper-shuffling thing, I'll probably survive.

[southernmissfan]

I'm a university student, majoring in Social Science/Secondary Education. Essentially, I'll be a history/social studies teacher, certified to teach middle and high school. I'm almost done, with my internship (student teaching) starting in August. Which means I'll graduate in December. I've had multiple observations and field experiences through the course of my studies so I do know a little about the field. So if anyone's interested in becoming a teacher or getting into education, feel free to shoot me a question and I'll do my best to answer. And yes, I'm a card carrying member of the union (well, technically education association).

Last few months I've been living off money I had saved up and student loans. The course load has been really intense and it's hard finding a job to work around that. But previously I have spent years in the fast food service industry. For one and a half to two years I was actually a manager. But the lowest level manager, essentially shift manager. Which meant I was payed somewhere in the range of fifty cents to a dollar more than crew members typically, while having to work way more hours, with way more responsibility and generally yelled at by the bosses way more. So I wasn't exactly the class enemy haha. But I've spent even more time in that type of work as just crew level. Overall, I've worked in a movie theater, a Quizno's (very briefly), Wendy's, Sonic and Baskin Robbins. They all sucked to various degrees of course. Since I've been both crew and low level management, I have a bit of unique perspective on it.

[bcbm]

i dropped out of college i don't really have any hopes for the future i work bullshit jobs now but have no desire to make peace with this economy, will probably just work shiity jjobs for slightly more money and drink myself to death. lol

[Dumb]

Update: As you can probably tell from my "Does this make me an imperialist?" thread, I got in to that program to teach in Honduras. W00t.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Its taken me some time to "find myself". You name it, I've done it. I worked as a clerk for a convenience store for several months, it was okay, very low pay though. I worked as a clerk at a university bookstore for over a year.I'm a huge bibliophile and in the beginning the job was fun but towards the end they put me in shipping and receiving, which I wasn't very good at and the job began falling apart.

Once I worked as a farm laborer for a week. The guy I worked for was an old time New England Calvinist, I was lucky if I could get 50 words out of him a day. Half the time I had no idea what he wanted me to do.

One time I worked as a ticket checker for a ski area. I don't ski and most everyone else thought I was crazy because of this.

One time I had a temp to hire job in a metal foundry. I had to bang metal components of cast iron stoves into place with a heavy sledgehammer. The work place was extremely hot, usually around 100 fahrenheit. After I woke up each morning my right hand would be frozen into place, I was getting carpal tunnel. It was the worst job I ever had.

For another temp job I worked in a tuna packing plant. Interesting to an extent but I couldn't see myself doing it for anything longer a month.

I've worked as dishwasher/food prep person for maybe 8 or 9 restaurants over the years.
In grad school I worked for KFC for over a year. All the free chicken I could eat and coke cola I could drink.It was fun at least until management started cracking down.My co-workers would play Metallica at ear splitting volume, which was a turn off for me.Eventually the managers were caught in a coke dealing ring and a new team took over. They were very strict and took all the fun out of the job. Eventually the new managers were also implicated in drug dealing and were themselves fired.

At different times I've worked for McDonald's and Burger King.

For a short time I worked for a company that made Christmas tree wreaths.

Once for three months I worked for a supermarket on Long Island, New York which was owned by the mob. One time there was a power failure and the meat thawed. We had to get rid of most of it but the management sold what they could get away with.Another time a sewer main broke and some food was contaminated. The store sold it anyway. The health inspector came but it was understood he was getting paid off.My boss was very abusive and would constantly yell and browbeat employees. He was openly racist and would constantly mock black people. One day, after the sewer line broke, he had me scoop the sewage into a bucket and dump in on the neighbors lawn. I actually started to do this then I asked myself why was I working at this place. I quit on the spot and found another job a few hours later .

For 4 weeks I worked as a website designer for Cardullo's, an upscale gourmet food shop for Harvard Square yuppies. The job was a lot of fun but my boss, the store owner, was very abusive as well as being extreme right wing politically.

I had a two month overnight job for the post office sorting mail. It was fun but by the time the work day ended, around 4AM I was too groggy to drive home and it was too cold to sleep in my car.

For 6 months I worked at a "night awake" facility for emotionially disturbed teenagers who had a history of violence. Basically I had to walk around and make sure the kids stayed in their rooms at night and everything was locked.If I had fallen asleep I could have been liable to criminal charges. The previous person who did my job quit after a plot was discovered in which some of the kids seriously planned to knock her unconscious with cooking pots and escape.

For several weeks I worked for the complaint department at Sears. I had to deal with very angry customers who thought whatever problems they had with their purchase was my personal fault.One time my Dad came into the department. He was just as angry as anyone else, maybe more so and roundly chewed out my co-workers. Then he told me he wanted to meet up with me later. Everyone then knew he was my Dad! Eeeeeh!

I've worked in human services, caring for autistic, developmentally delayed or handicapped children. Working with handicapped kids was very fulfilling. It was moving to watch kids try so hard!

I've taught ESL in China, Russia, and several places in Eastern Europe. I taught economics and English for a university in Central China and more recently Organisational Behavior at a university in Beijing.

[Sentinel]

I work as a cashier in the duty free shop of a cruiseferry, and occasionally step in at the ships reception as well. I've been doing this for 8 years, before it I was a storage worker on the ships. In total I've been working for the company for 11 years now, since I was 19 years old.

I enjoy the work ten days, free for ten days schedule quite a lot and the pay is okay compared to similar jobs ashore. That said, this time has gone fast and I've started to contemplate on whether I'll be doing the same thing for the rest of my life, or if I should try something new soon. I guess it has to do with having a 30 years crisis and all that.

Before that I worked briefly as a shop clerk ashore, as well as a mailman. I enjoyed the freedom of the mailman job, but it was rather badly paid.

[Lynx]

If you're unemployed, share something about how you've tried to look for work, what jobs you've had in the past, and what your experience has been looking for work and dealing with unemployment benefits (if any exist) in your country.
I'm 44 and been mostly unemployed for the last 15 years. Until recently I was able to play the rise in real estate prices and remain financially secure. As a consequence I did not have to look for work during that time. It was fun while it lasted.
Now I am on social assistance and considering a return to college to study electronics. I assumed I would eventually find myself in this situation and made no effort to avoid it. Instead, my focus has been on finding the 'right house' - a place secluded enough for me to feel at ease. Unfortunately, employment opportunities in rural areas are not to my liking.
When I was 17 I attended college to train as a technician. When I realized I would most likely have to work in Montreal, I abandoned my studies and returned home. I could not see myself living in a big city.

Anyone can share what the best job they've had was and what the worst job they've had was (or just one or the other if they prefer). But give some detail about why you found it the way you found it.
My first job was as a dishwasher. I couldn't stand it. The owner and "chef" was a nut job, who would forget things when the rush set in. I was never able to wash dishes fast enough to satisfy him. When I went home and fell asleep I would be washing dishes all night long in my dreams. On the bright side we got to enjoy the food the customers failed to eat.
My second job was the best job I ever had. I worked for a man in his seventies who loved to do manual, physical work. We spent a summer doing odd jobs and meeting local people. We did a lot of digging, with picks and shovels. It was hard work but I found that we worked well together. There were times when I looked forward to going to work. I was inspired by the fact this guy was in his seventies and still physically active. It was also the first time I met people outside of high school, in the context of being a worker and (supposedly) an adult.
Eventually I got a job at the hotel my parents worked, as a night auditor. I had done other jobs at this hotel, including snow removal and demolition work, but the night audit was my first 'regular' job, in a 9 to 5 kind of way. It paid more and was a lot easier physically. While I enjoyed the freedom of working by myself when everyone was asleep, the busier nights could be stressful. I was just not cut out to work at the front desk, and handle drunken or dissatisfied guests. Anyone who has worked the night audit can testify to the crap you have to deal with.
Nevertheless I was disciplined and held that job for ten years. As I grew older, I lost my discipline and quit several times. I had used my savings to buy a house and with the ridiculous increase in prices, was able to forget about working. I also inherited money from my father when he died, and he too was a compulsive saver.

Work in general is no longer to my liking. I prefer to do what I please, when I feel like doing it. That is my definition of leisure. Sometimes I feel like doing computer programming, other times I don't. The programming I do is in areas that interest me. I wouldn't want to be stuck working for hours on some boring database. For most kinds of jobs I don't possess the patience that is required. I do like to drive - i get to work alone and it is visually appealing - but it seems that everyone in Nova Scotia has class 3 and class 1 licenses. With 11% unemployment competition for driving jobs is fierce.

I don't waste time chasing after jobs that don't exist. Employers prefer to hire based on recommendations from someone they know, and only post the minimum number of jobs that are legally required. I'm not a social person, I prefer solitude. It's no surprise I haven't created a social network that could help me.

I am on social assistance, and should be ashamed of this, yet I have the life I want. I have a secluded home and am able to make ends meet with the money I receive. Returning to college does not guarantee employment. I worry about my chances of finding an entry level job at my age. I hate risk.

Ultimately I may have no other choice but to sell my house. The DCS has not hounded me about my failure to find work and I have been honest with them so far. There are people who have families to support who surely need the work more than I do. It should make no difference to the government, unemployment and social welfare costs are not going to go away because I am a lazy bum. But they do have their guidelines, or so I've been told.

I might return to college just for the challenge of obtaining a diploma. Last year I tried mechanical drafting, and received excellent grades, but found it boring. The year before that I tried refrigeration mechanics but didn't like the requirement for welding and brazing. 1st year electronics should be a breeze, I have a good memory of theory I studied decades ago.

Perhaps that is all I am interested in: the theory. Work, of course, is all about practice, learning how to do stuff. It's about having social skills, and sometimes, leadership skills. I don't know if I am able to adapt to the needs of employers. I assume the world will not adapt to suit me.

I don't regret the path I have chosen. I think it has preserved my health and my sanity. (You can judge the latter for yourself)

[Knight of Cydonia]

i now am working at a travel agency. suck? nope, cause i get the opportunity to go anywhere i like in east java...without paying so much money and mostly i don't pay at all..freedom of travelling is mine!:lol:

[caramelpence]

I'm currently in my last year of uni, and am planning to do graduate study next year. If anyone has any advice or stories about what life is like as a graduate student (taught course with a large dissertation component, if that matters) then I'd really appreciate it because I have no idea what to expect, beyond having a larger lending limit at the library!

[black magick hustla]

i worked with a lot of graduate students. expect misery, alcohol, low pay and being treated like disposable scum. sometimes is alright you get to share your misery with other equally miserable and overworked people

[TC]

I'm currently in my last year of uni, and am planning to do graduate study next year. If anyone has any advice or stories about what life is like as a graduate student (taught course with a large dissertation component, if that matters) then I'd really appreciate it because I have no idea what to expect, beyond having a larger lending limit at the library!

I am a graduate student (previously a graduate law student, currently a graduate philosophy student) - I'd be happy to answer any questions though I am not sure what sort of general advice to give. Keep in mind that the experience of a hard science grad student is very different than a social science, grad student, which is very different from a humanities grad student, etc.

[twenty percent tip]

workers will get exploited.thats that/ overthrow capitalism to end it. until then dowhat you have to to survive. fuck ideological employment.you want to end up a starch white liberal faking to be a leftist standing in the rain talkingabout your bullshit politics when you're a lawyer fuck? if so play along. :lol:

only middleclass knobs working on their 15th worthless academic paperwaste diploma would even try to play this game.if people could chose their creativelabor output it wouldnt be capitalism. for most of us. we gotta work until we die. we talke what we can get.fuck this pondernation.drown in the shallow depths of your brain. swamp thing

[twenty percent tip]

hard grad student.hahaha.only thing hard is the book cover. get a fucking real job.

[Tim Finnegan]

workers will get exploited.thats that/ overthrow capitalism to end it. until then dowhat you have to to survive. fuck ideological employment.you want to end up a starch white liberal faking to be a leftist standing in the rain talkingabout your bullshit politics when you're a lawyer fuck? if so play along. :lol:

only middleclass knobs working on their 15th worthless academic paperwaste diploma would even try to play this game.if people could chose their creativelabor output it wouldnt be capitalism. for most of us. we gotta work until we die. we talke what we can get.fuck this pondernation.drown in the shallow depths of your brain. swamp thing
Buzzwords and anti-intellectual sneering do not an argument make.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Some people are drawn towards books and intellectualizing. People like this, Gramsci's "organic intellectual" can play an important role in the class struggle.I agree that most academia today is nothing more than a means of social control, petty bourgeois wankery.That doesn't invalidate the idea of being a scholar. Its too bad there are so many hoops to jump though and academia is based on hierarchal patronage networks, instead of a love of learning. For these reasons, sadly, its not an option for me.

In the US academic jobs have dried up years ago anyway.

[Rooster]

I have two degrees and a few diplomas but I still do menial work.

[Impulse97]

I'm currently unemployed and have only had one job, at McDonald's. I worked there for 2 1/2 years before I quit. Might have a job as a busboy at a bar lined up, but my contacts within the bar are proving unreliable and I've been in the 'almost sorta employed' status for the past three weeks. It's below minimum wage, but with tips it evens out to about the same. The hours suck and you deal with drunks all night, but I hear its fun and the whole staff seems chill. I hear scuttle butt that its mob owned along with many of the businesses in both my town and the town next to us where the bar is located.

I'm going to the local community college in the fall for a semester so I can erase my poor 1.9 high school GPA and transfer to North Park in Chitown. That school is sooo epic.

No clue what I want to go to school for, perhaps History or Poly Sci. Even less of a clue at what I want to do with my life. I graduate from high school in about three weeks so I guess its time to start getting that shit figured out. I did have it all worked out until this past fall. Been dead set on a career in the USN since I was old enough to say 'Aye Aye!', but then Communism came along and FUBAR'd that plan.

Damn, its been tough. I still consider enlisting now and then, but generally I remain completely unsure of what to do. I'm torn between a long family history of sea service (American Revolution long), my love of the sea, and my new found ideals. It sucks. It really sucks.

Well, I guess thats it. Not much of a job history at 18 lol.

McDonald's sucks. Don't work there if you can help it.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I'm currently unemployed and have only had one job, at McDonald's. I worked there for 2 1/2 years before I quit. Might have a job as a busboy at a bar lined up, but my contacts within the bar are proving unreliable and I've been in the 'almost sorta employed' status for the past three weeks. It's below minimum wage, but with tips it evens out to about the same. The hours suck and you deal with drunks all night, but I hear its fun and the whole staff seems chill. I hear scuttle butt that its mob owned along with many of the businesses in both my town and the town next to us where the bar is located.

I'm going to the local community college in the fall for a semester so I can erase my poor 1.9 high school GPA and transfer to North Park in Chitown. That school is sooo epic.

No clue what I want to go to school for, perhaps History or Poly Sci. Even less of a clue at what I want to do with my life. I graduate from high school in about three weeks so I guess its time to start getting that shit figured out. I did have it all worked out until this past fall. Been dead set on a career in the USN since I was old enough to say 'Aye Aye!', but then Communism came along and FUBAR'd that plan.

Damn, its been tough. I still consider enlisting now and then, but generally I remain completely unsure of what to do. I'm torn between a long family history of sea service (American Revolution long), my love of the sea, and my new found ideals. It sucks. It really sucks.

Well, I guess thats it. Not much of a job history at 18 lol.

McDonald's sucks. Don't work there if you can help it.

Would oceanography be a possibility?

[Rooster]

Damn, its been tough. I still consider enlisting now and then, but generally I remain completely unsure of what to do. I'm torn between a long family history of sea service (American Revolution long), my love of the sea, and my new found ideals. It sucks. It really sucks.

You should try to get something practical, I think. I think being an electrician or learning mechanical engineering would get you a job on a ship or on a yard no problem. It would also get you jobs anywhere that can lead to anything. Maybe that's just me being old though.


Well, I guess thats it. Not much of a job history at 18 lol.

I wouldn't worry about that at all. It certainly beats being homeless and not being able to explain why you have a three year gap on your CV.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

Gramsci's "organic intellectual" can play an important role in the class struggle.

If I read Gramsci correctly he uses the term primarily to refer to those intellectuals who affirm the legitimacy of the dominant (bourgeois) culture; and while it may be possible to be the "organic intellectual" for an alternative culture, in practical terms it is indeed, a very tough thing to achieve since you don't have an alternative culture ready-made, you have to "make the road by walking."

It can be done, and it should be done, and as Joyce says, it requires "exile, cunning and guile." Me, I wouldn't have it any other way.

[black magick hustla]

hard grad student.hahaha.only thing hard is the book cover. get a fucking real job.
a real job is most of the time better paying and has less hours imho but some people have dreams of gender studies professor tm good luck with that you get a good cig and booze habit out of it

[black magick hustla]

If I read Gramsci correctly he uses the term primarily to refer to those intellectuals who affirm the legitimacy of the dominant (bourgeois) culture; and while it may be possible to be the "organic intellectual" for an alternative culture, in practical terms it is indeed, a very tough thing to achieve since you don't have an alternative culture ready-made, you have to "make the road by walking."

It can be done, and it should be done, and as Joyce says, it requires "exile, cunning and guile." Me, I wouldn't have it any other way.
to be a communist you have to shit on the foundations of civilization how can you do so when youre an intellectual???????? you protect the learned and the knowledgeable the only good intellectual was diogenes the dog philosopher he ate onions, jerked off in public and told alexander the great that he was no better than a slave

[Chris]

Currently in second year of advanced school (that is, 12th total year in the norwegian schooling system). I work part-time as a lumberjack, along with various other oddjobs, as well as helping out on the family farm.

I'm unsure what I want to work with after school, or if I'll continue studying after Advanced School (would be 13 years of schooling in total). Considered medical studies earlier, but I'm becoming less and less motivated by school with each year. I regret not going with a vocational line (like mechanic) in Advanced School (currently in the sciences line).

I'm considering studying physics, as it seems to be a very safe job choice (there is a shortage of physicists, doctors and engineers in Norway) and the state gives physics students a generous stipend AND compensates for 80% of the student dept after finished studies. Although, I'm not sure if I'm able to sit 6-7 more years on the school bench. There's a local stone quarry who hires a lot of relatively unskilled labour (ie, it's enough to have gone to Advanced School, it doesn't matter what line), and the pay is very good.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

to be a communist you have to shit on the foundations of civilization how can you do so when youre an intellectual???????? you protect the learned and the knowledgeable the only good intellectual was diogenes the dog philosopher.

That's the whole point: an intellectual can get away with it, depending on the environment. If Diogenes hadn't been a philosopher Alexander would have had him strung up by the balls.

Footnote: Diogenes was a follower of Antisthenes, the founder of a school called the Cynics. Cynics believed in talking in a way that working people could understand, in treating women as equals, in abolishing religion and slavery. The term "Cynic" was brought back in style in the XVth-XVIth century to designate intellectuals who called for similar things; in other terms: class traitors. Is there a problem here?

[RedSunRising]

to be a communist you have to shit on the foundations of civilization how can you do so when youre an intellectual???????? you protect the learned and the knowledgeable the only good intellectual was diogenes the dog philosopher he ate onions, jerked off in public and told alexander the great that he was no better than a slave

Famous last words before someone joins the GOP....

I work as a secretary, its a crap job because my boss constantly unloads all his family and other drama on me, but because I can sit there and be sort of human to his neurosis my job is secure....But than I have to put up with his daughter too.

[Impulse97]

Would oceanography be a possibility?

Well, honestly, I was thinking more along the lines of a career in the "People's Revolutionary Navy of the American Democratic Republic" :lol::lol::lol:


I wouldn't worry about that at all. It certainly beats being homeless and not being able to explain why you have a three year gap on your CV.

Gap in my CV? I didn't know I had a CV much less that I could get a gap in it. Could you explain it, please?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

a real job is most of the time better paying and has less hours imho but some people have dreams of gender studies professor tm good luck with that you get a good cig and booze habit out of it

As I understand you are studying to be a physicist? Could this be a bit of the "two cultures" rivalry-the traditional bewilderment and disdain mathematically/scientifically trained people have for liberal arts/humanities people (and vice versa)?:)

[Metacomet]

Been out of college for nearly a year. (History-Geography majors) with a 3.8 GPA. Didn't really matter I am marginally employed at a retail store. My main issue to getting anywhere is transportation. And every other week when my dad gets his Chemo treatments I need to be home taking care of him.

I want to go back to school to be a teacher. I thought about academia..............I don't think I could make it.

[black magick hustla]

As I understand you are studying to be a physicist? Could this be a bit of the "two cultures" rivalry-the traditional bewilderment and disdain mathematically/scientifically trained people have for liberal arts/humanities people (and vice versa)?:)

lol not really i like humanities. i would never say scientists hold a special spot in the communist movement or whatever. scientists are not better communists as a function of being a scientist, i mean panneokek is my hero but that are just my manchild scientist sensibilities, his function as an excellent astronomer had nothing to do with his decades long fight against capital

[Quail]

I'm a maths student. I love maths so much, and what I intend to do is inspire others to enjoy it as much as I do by teaching. :)

[La Comédie Noire]

I'm starting a nursing program this fall. I am going to go for Registered Nurse. I've already completed my undergraduate program at a community college and may go back there for their nursing program.

I want to be a nurse because my mother was a nurse in a union and my dad is a reservoir worker, also in a union. So I am thoroughly working class and intend to stay there.

At first I wanted to do English or History, but I realized I could never degrade my love of books by earning a wage to do it.

Not that I don't love nursing, I do.

Oh I should mention I am working full time at a restaurant as of right now.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Well, honestly, I was thinking more along the lines of a career in the "People's Revolutionary Navy of the American Democratic Republic" :lol::lol::lol:



Gap in my CV? I didn't know I had a CV much less that I could get a gap in it. Could you explain it, please?

CV stands for curriculum vitae. That's the common term in British English for what us Yanks call a resume.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Working on a OH&S diploma program. 4 4 month semesters and an 8 week work term.

Original plan was PoliSci and Become a uni prof...but im a poor folk.

[bricolage]

i'm not familiar with american talk, is a grad student just someone who has been to university?

[Metacomet]

i'm not familiar with american talk, is a grad student just someone who has been to university?


It's someone pursuing a Masters or a Doctorate. Usually in their 5th+years of "university"/college.

[Comrade J]

Play poker for a living. Really don't recommend it at all, can be quite stressful and lonely.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

i'm not familiar with american talk, is a grad student just someone who has been to university?

It's an existential condition. A "grad student," more often than not, is bitter, disillusioned, unable to move on, stuck in menial teaching jobs that barely enable him or her to make ends meet. Predictably, many grad students develop "grad student syndrome:" they become arrogant and defensive towards their students, obsessed with "scoring points," always ready to put down others and to sneer at anyone who does not share their disillusion.

Clearly, a number of participants on this forum should be encouraged to apply to grad school, where their innate talents will be allowed to develop fully.

[-marx-]

I'm currently unemployed. My last job was a courier driver...in my opinion its the best unskilled working class job there is and you get to discover parts of your city you never knew existed. Of course, ideally, I'd rather be doing something else but its OK, it doesn't become monotonous. I was originally intending on becoming a Doctor (about 12 years ago) but since I have always been poor as all fuck that wasn't a realistic option. Aside from that my life took a drastic turn and that dream went out the window altogether.

I'm actually entertaining the idea of teaching English in China (not because I think it's a socialist state) as the pays not bad (slightly above Australian minimum wage but the cheapness of China makes up for it), living is dirt cheap, my house would be provided for free by the state and China cant get enough English teachers as it is and you really don't need any real qualifications, so to speak. You don't even need to speak Mandarin. However I was considering learning it should I decide to do it.
:D

[Metacomet]

I'm actually entertaining the idea of teaching English in China (not because I think it's a socialist state) as the pays not bad (slightly above Australian minimum wage but the cheapness of China makes up for it), living is dirt cheap, my house would be provided for free by the state and China cant get enough English teachers as it is and you really don't need any real qualifications, so to speak. You don't even need to speak Mandarin. However I was considering learning it should I decide to do it.
:D


I was under the impression that things were changing, and it was getting harder and harder to get a job without qualifications/experience. (just like everything else.:()

I haven't looked into it recently though, so you may be right.

[KC]

Been out of college for nearly a year. (History-Geography majors) with a 3.8 GPA. Didn't really matter I am marginally employed at a retail store. My main issue to getting anywhere is transportation. And every other week when my dad gets his Chemo treatments I need to be home taking care of him.

When you get a degree in history or geography or something like that you should expect to not get a job with it. Any jobs dealing specifically with these fields usually require a graduate degree, and even then you're looking at teaching or getting lucky becoming an archivist or something like that. So you're pretty much SOL from the start. The only real viable career paths with such a degree are becoming a teacher or a professor, the latter of which you would need to go for your PhD and probably spend about 10-20 years before you get tenure, if you're lucky.

Were you expecting something different to happen? I'm honestly curious.

[Comrade J]

^It's a shame when people (especially leftists) consider the only reason for getting a degree to be to get a well-paid job afterwards. I did my degree because I thought it sounded interesting, which it was.

Also for History and stuff like that, there are plenty of graduate schemes you can get onto if you want, given that it requires a lot of self-motivation, fastidious source analysis etc. There are plenty of careers out there where there aren't really any vocational qualifications you can attain, they simply want graduates who have studied something that demonstrates the ability to work to self-imposed deadlines and reason well.

[Metacomet]

When you get a degree in history or geography or something like that you should expect to not get a job with it. Any jobs dealing specifically with these fields usually require a graduate degree, and even then you're looking at teaching or getting lucky becoming an archivist or something like that. So you're pretty much SOL from the start. The only real viable career paths with such a degree are becoming a teacher or a professor, the latter of which you would need to go for your PhD and probably spend about 10-20 years before you get tenure, if you're lucky.

Were you expecting something different to happen? I'm honestly curious.


I was expecting to at least get hired at Burger King. I wasn't looking into my field. Except for one job at a publisher as an abstract writer. All the other jobs were mostly retail, or temp agency jobs/office jobs.

I majored in what I did because I liked it.

I went to a vocational high school and took computers. But I honestly didn't like it. I could have a good job by now probably, but I wouldn't like it. Same deal if I went to cooking school. Good hobby, wouldn't want to do it for a job.

[tracher999]

i work by people with a handicap because off my add i have problems with my consentration i can not good focus myself on one thing for a long time

[TC]

to be a communist you have to shit on the foundations of civilization how can you do so when youre an intellectual???????? you protect the learned and the knowledgeable

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but what you say is completely wrong (though it might apply to teachers in highschool and elementary school).

There is a strong academic tradition in the social sciences and humanities of critically deconstructing ruling class ideology and institutional "knowledge", demonstrating that the foundations upon which they rest are faulty, unreliable, and informed by class privilege. Critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics, and others all take aim at the received conventional wisdom that props up the ruling class.

The Leftist movement owes its conceptual clarity and analysis to many people who spent most of their time doing intellectual work (Marx and Engels being obvious examples). Anti-intellectualism is just another form of elitism and snobbery that demeans others valuable contributions to the struggle against capitalism - while at the same time allowing so many other roles far more complicit with capitalism to go unexamined.

[TC]

i'm not familiar with american talk, is a grad student just someone who has been to university?

American English "Grad student" is the same as British English "Post-graduate student" - i.e. someone pursuing a masters or doctoral program that requires a bachelors degree as an entry condition.

[Zanthorus]

Critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics

You're really not doing anything to help your case here.


The Leftist movement owes its conceptual clarity and analysis to many people who spent most of their time doing intellectual work (Marx and Engels being obvious examples).

There is a difference between 'doing intellectual work' and being an academic intellectual. Incidentally, saying that we owe our 'conceptual clarity and analysis' (lol) to the people who did 'intellectual work' for the movement is really quite insulting to the people who did the intellectual work.

[HEAD ICE]

There is a strong academic tradition in the social sciences and humanities of critically deconstructing ruling class ideology and institutional "knowledge", demonstrating that the foundations upon which they rest are faulty, unreliable, and informed by class privilege. Critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics, and others all take aim at the received conventional wisdom that props up the ruling class.

n1iGrVTbME4

[black magick hustla]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but what you say is completely wrong (though it might apply to teachers in highschool and elementary school).

There is a strong academic tradition in the social sciences and humanities of critically deconstructing ruling class ideology and institutional "knowledge", demonstrating that the foundations upon which they rest are faulty, unreliable, and informed by class privilege. Critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics, and others all take aim at the received conventional wisdom that props up the ruling class.



I think this is what they want you to think. This so called "deconstruction" of race, gender, class, etcetera has its own market and niche in the capitalist status quo. It informs a lot of the liberal factions of the bourgeosie (For example, ton of people into academic feminism like Hillary Clinton). Some of the things they might come up with might be useful in the same sense that I don´t think most academia is bullshit or whatever, but I find it damning that some peiople think that "neo marxists" are revolutionary when most of them are coutnerrevolutionary social democratic burnouts (See DSA)-

I think what bothers me about somee of the so called "revolutionary" scholars is not so much the work they do, but the conception they have about it. A neo-marxist academic is most of the time insignificant, he gets paid by the state/ruling class to pursue its hobby and gather funds for the university, and release papers that other people in the market, i.e. people with phds in english or gender studies or whatever, can read and comment on.

Maybe I can give an annecdotal example about their own insignificance. I remember once I went to some anarchist bullshit given by some academic. He stated the zapatistas were anarchists. I stated that they were not, they had their own movement with their own goals and sometimes western leftists just to recuperate everything as their own. He said that that was the old anarchism, new anarchist intellectuals say something else. Of course he knows jackshit about current anarchism, because there arent really that many people who read anarchist intellectuals. There are journals and publications that are hot right now, i.e. years ago, Murder of Crows, Venomous Butterfly, Kill king Abaccus, today Tiqqun, Invisible Committee, maybe Fire to the Prisons, maybe Vagabond Theorist, but anarchist intellectual are basically nonexistent. Of course he had a PHD, and I didnt, but Ive been involved in fucking socialist movements since I was a teenager. Of course he was trapped in its own insignificant bubble of academic anarchism. Of course I am insignficant too, but at the very least I have familiarity with the average people that call themselves socialists, and I repeat, most of them don´t read that shit, because after all, its not aimed at them.






The Leftist movement owes its conceptual clarity and analysis to many people who spent most of their time doing intellectual work (Marx and Engels being obvious examples). Anti-intellectualism is just another form of elitism and snobbery that demeans others valuable contributions to the struggle against capitalism - while at the same time allowing so many other roles far more complicit with capitalism to go unexamined.

there is a difference between militants who do intellectual work, and intellectuals.

[Ele'ill]

-If you're working full time now, say what job, how long you've had it, and how you find it and how you got it in the first place. Do you regret the path you took or are you content and satisfied or somewhere in between? Whats the best and worst thing about it.

I'm working full time in a part time position without benefits where some months it's 45 hours per week and then a 15 hour week comes up. It's warehouse work (retail) usually starting around 3am. I got the job because of previous experience and at the time it was the only job available- it was enough to get a place and it's currently paying the bills. I dislike the job because of the drop off in hours, lack of benefits and because a portion of the 'lower tier' management team does the same exact work as the hourly workers but receive bonuses. I'm ok with the job because it's extremely physical, there's a weekly system set up so we all know exactly what we're doing without any deviation, everyone has unique tasks they perform daily so there's relative autonomy as nobody interferes with what I'm doing on a daily basis because I am the best and most experienced at it. (We were short handed a week and had 'upper management' pretty much take the position of 'new workers' 'under' the more experienced people who work there- this of course leaves me bitter for obvious reasons)


-If you're unemployed, share something about how you've tried to look for work, what jobs you've had in the past, and what your experience has been looking for work and dealing with unemployment benefits (if any exist) in your country.

I'm going to contact 'oregon labor'? regarding excessive hour drop-offs, as in 45's with a sudden 15 or two to see if I can collect unemployment etc.. I don't know how that would work but there are a lot of people upset about it- perhaps it's time to engage on this issue.


-Anyone can share what the best job they've had was and what the worst job they've had was (or just one or the other if they prefer). But give some detail about why you found it the way you found it.

I've never had a 'best job' but in comparison to past jobs the job I have now allows me to use my work ethic as a weapon.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

A comrade from some revolutionary party or other (membership: 25) explaining that academics only talk among themselves...:rolleyes:

[black magick hustla]

A comrade from some revolutionary party or other (membership: 25) explaining that academics only talk among themselves...:rolleyes:
I already said I am insignificant. I have no problems with that. However I am just some 20something kid, I don´t have a PHD in revolution tm, nor the people I discuss and do shit with for that matter.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

However I am just some 20something kid, I don´t have a PHD in revolution tm, nor the people I discuss and do shit with for that matter.
You're saying we should demand more of radical academics... Yeah. I agree, some of them really need to earn their revstripes.

On the other hand I know a very well paid radical professor (and a fairly helpful one) who takes the idea a bit too far: he not only dresses the way he thinks a workingclassser dresses, he also seems to think workingclassers don't shower. Take the next elevator, trust me.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

If I read Gramsci correctly he uses the term primarily to refer to those intellectuals who affirm the legitimacy of the dominant (bourgeois) culture; and while it may be possible to be the "organic intellectual" for an alternative culture, in practical terms it is indeed, a very tough thing to achieve since you don't have an alternative culture ready-made, you have to "make the road by walking."

It can be done, and it should be done, and as Joyce says, it requires "exile, cunning and guile." Me, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Interesting. I could be wrong about this, I'm still trying to wrap my head around Gramsci but my understanding was that by "organic intellectual" he meant an intellectual produced by and working within the working class or peasantry. If I remember he used the example of Catholic priests in the southern Italy. The Church played a very negative role by siphoning off and coopting potential intellectuals leaders in this way.


Gramsci gave much thought to the question of the role of intellectuals in society. Famously, he stated that all men are intellectuals, in that all have intellectual and rational faculties, but not all men have the social function of intellectuals.[6] He claimed that modern intellectuals were not simply talkers, but practically-minded directors and organisers who helped to produce hegemony by means of ideological apparatuses such as education and the media. Furthermore, he distinguished between a "traditional" intelligentsia which sees itself (wrongly) as a class apart from society, and the thinking groups which every class produces from its own ranks "organically". Such "organic" intellectuals do not simply describe social life in accordance with scientific rules, but rather articulate, through the language of culture, the feelings and experiences which the masses could not express for themselves. The need to create a working-class culture relates to Gramsci's call for a kind of education that could develop working-class intellectuals, who would not simply introduce Marxist ideology from without the proletariat, but rather renovate and make critical of the status quo the already existing intellectual activity of the masses. His ideas about an education system for this purpose correspond with the notion of critical pedagogy and popular education as theorized and practised in later decades by Paulo Freire in Brazil, and have much in common with the thought of Frantz Fanon. For this reason, partisans of adult and popular education consider Gramsci an important voice to this day.
Anyway, more importantly I was wondering if you might have examples of an "organic intellectual for an alternative culture"? To me examples of this mnight be Brendan Cooney, maker of the famous Kapitalism 101 youtube videos explaining Marxist economics,Richard Wolf, the Marxist economist who in his retirement is doing a lot to explain Marxism to people who don't understand economics, the US situationist Ken Knabb, and Loren Goldner.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

We agree: an "organic intellectual" is usually 'organic' in the sense of hegemonic thought - what else would hegemonism be but the enforcement of the fantasy that this is "The Way it Sposed to Be." If I recall correctly (my copy of Gramsci's behind me and I don't feel like reaching), this discussion occurs in the context of Gramsci wondering how the working class could develop its own hegemony/consciousness/intellectuals.

It's funny you should mention Freire, who is a hero to me. So, for what it's worth, how can one develop a way of teaching that escapes any number of the categories Freire assigns to capitalism: "bankable" education, for instance? And yes, it's hard, partly because your chances of being canned are always high. Sure beats working, though.

[Martin Blank]

There is a strong academic tradition in the social sciences and humanities of critically deconstructing ruling class ideology and institutional "knowledge", demonstrating that the foundations upon which they rest are faulty, unreliable, and informed by class privilege. Critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics, and others all take aim at the received conventional wisdom that props up the ruling class.

Nonsense. What you have are layer after layer of academics who abuse and prostitute Marxian communist theory in order to suit their petty-bourgeois milieu. I've met with plenty of these academics, attended their conferences, submitted papers to their societies, etc. I can tell you from direct experience that these "critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics, and others" are completely useless when it comes to the class struggle. Virtually none of them have never read Marx or Engels close enough to be able to answer basic theoretical questions.

I lost all respect for these useless academics when I had to give an impromptu 30-minute presentation on Marx's conception of the proletarian dictatorship and its relation to the Paris Commune (really could have done it in 30 seconds, but they wanted to try to challenge me) at one of their conferences. This was after they spent two hours debating whether or not Marx and Engels considered the Commune to be a proletarian dictatorship.


The Leftist movement owes its conceptual clarity and analysis to many people who spent most of their time doing intellectual work (Marx and Engels being obvious examples). Anti-intellectualism is just another form of elitism and snobbery that demeans others valuable contributions to the struggle against capitalism - while at the same time allowing so many other roles far more complicit with capitalism to go unexamined.

I call bullshit on your entire conception. To conflate petty-bourgeois academia with "intellectuals" is not only an insult to generations of working-class intellectuals, but also an insult to the memory of Marx and Engels themselves. I think it is healthy for workers to be mistrusting and skeptical of (even hostile toward) petty-bourgeois "intellectual" academics -- especially those claiming to be "critical theorists, feminist scholars, neo-marxist academics, critical race theorists, foucauldian academics, and others", and seeking to carve out a place for themselves in the revolutionary workers' movement.

As for such mistrust and skepticism (and, indeed, hostility) being "another form of elitism and snobbery", I can only say: Boo-fucking-hoo. The liberation of the working class is the task of workers themselves, not well-heeled petty-bourgeois academics (or lawyers, or politicians, etc.). If you and other non-proletarian elements are not willing to submit fully to working-class leadership, then you're of no use to the movement, and it would be best if you all just stayed home.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
If you and other non-proletarian elements are not willing to submit fully to working-class leadership.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:You and what army? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[-marx-]

I was under the impression that things were changing, and it was getting harder and harder to get a job without qualifications/experience. (just like everything else.:()

I haven't looked into it recently though, so you may be right.

Last I looked into it (TESOL certificate and jobs available etc) was a few weeks ago and it still seems very easy.

Considering the Minimum (average unskilled job) Australian wage is $578. Net P/W and I can earn $655 Net P/W (minimum), have my house supplied, the experience of living in another country, live for next to nothing and have the option of sending 70% of my wage back to AU by living and working in China the benefits are pretty clear. Its just a matter of me deciding when to do it and set it in motion should I decide to go through with it.

You guys in the States may think AU$578 is a lot for minimum wage but when you factor in the cost of living in AU its very fucking hard to live on that much here as a single person, especially in the city. Its not a large wage by any definition.

:)

[Tim Finnegan]

As for such mistrust and skepticism (and, indeed, hostility) being "another form of elitism and snobbery", I can only say: Boo-fucking-hoo. The liberation of the working class is the task of workers themselves, not well-heeled petty-bourgeois academics (or lawyers, or politicians, etc.). If you and other non-proletarian elements are not willing to submit fully to working-class leadership, then you're of no use to the movement, and it would be best if you all just stayed home.
What's the distinction between a "petty-bourgeois" academic and a proletarian one, exactly? Hopefully you're not suggesting that all academics are petty bourgeois, given that most of them are wage -workers (and often rather harshly exploited wage-workers, in the lower ranks).

[gorillafuck]

On the other hand I know a very well paid radical professor (and a fairly helpful one) who takes the idea a bit too far: he not only dresses the way he thinks a workingclassser dresses, he also seems to think workingclassers don't shower. Take the next elevator, trust me.That might just be his style. I've met older men who dress in that sort of style who had nothing to do with politics.

Anywho I work as a telephone surveyor.

[Yazman]

n1iGrVTbME4

This is spam. Don't post videos with no context and no accompanying messages, and especially don't post videos contributing nothing to the topic. Don't let me see this again.

This message constitutes a warning to user Stagger Lee for spam.

[9]

I do data entry and specimen processing at a clinical lab during the week (it sounds fancy but isn't at all), and I wait tables at a sports bar/grill on the weekends. So nothing too interesting ATM, but just before my job at the lab, I was employed at this place called [snip] where my work consisted entirely of cleaning blood and other, er...bodily residue... off of prostheses, which was pretty gross lul.

[bricolage]

I'm a materials clerk at a hospital, I walk around wards and clinics ordering medical supplies and delivering them. Before that I worked at another hospital collecting blood samples for a pathology lab. Before that I sold sandwiches off a bicycle but quit after two days because I wasn't making any money. Before that I was a petit-bourgeois student.

I got paid 250 pounds to be injected with ketamine in a medical trial once, that was probably the best way I've ever made money.

[Die Neue Zeit]

What's the distinction between a "petty-bourgeois" academic and a proletarian one, exactly? Hopefully you're not suggesting that all academics are petty bourgeois, given that most of them are wage -workers (and often rather harshly exploited wage-workers, in the lower ranks).

I disagree with the comrade's characterization of non-worker intellectuals as wholly "petit-bourgeois." There are coordinator intellectuals (not just tenured profs) who have subordinate "academic" research staff, the latter being some of the real working-class intellectuals he's talking about. There are also self-employed intellectuals. Very rare is an actual petit-bourgeois intellectual, since he'd own means of mass telecommunication (like the folks at ZNet).

His central point stands nonetheless.

[Martin Blank]

You and what army?

So, you admit that your presence and that of other petty-bourgeois elements is a forcible invasion of the workers' movement. Thanks for being more honest than your brethren.

[Martin Blank]

What's the distinction between a "petty-bourgeois" academic and a proletarian one, exactly? Hopefully you're not suggesting that all academics are petty bourgeois, given that most of them are wage -workers (and often rather harshly exploited wage-workers, in the lower ranks).

From what I've seen, most academics from working-class backgrounds don't last very long in that world unless they give themselves over to the petty bourgeoisie. If they don't, they get punished by those above them in the academic hierarchy (including by so-called "Marxist" academics) for not conforming.

And, yes, there is a fundamental difference between a petty-bourgeois academic, and someone from a working-class background laboring as a graduate instructor or teaching assistant. The latter, much like part-time instructors and adjunct professors at colleges, have only their skilled ability to work to sell and are compelled to sell it at prices dictated by the institution for which they work. The professional petty-bourgeois academic, on the other hand, can more or less set their own prices through a mutually-agreed-to contract, and protect their dictated conditions through tenure.

[Property Is Robbery]

-If you're in college/university or highschool now, say what your current educational status is (year in school, type of college/university, major for the u.s. or course for the u.k.) - and 1. do you know what you want to do for a living - if you do, what are your hopes and fears about it 2. if you don't know, what are you considering, what factors influence your choice, what worries you and what motivates you.




I am currently enrolled in community college. I am technically a senior in High School but I finished all my credits a couple months ago and have been going to college full time. My current plan is to major in forestry at Humboldt State. My hope is that I'll like it. My main worry about it is possibly having people underneath me (I really hate that idea)

[Tim Finnegan]

From what I've seen, most academics from working-class backgrounds don't last very long in that world unless they give themselves over to the petty bourgeoisie. If they don't, they get punished by those above them in the academic hierarchy (including by so-called "Marxist" academics) for not conforming.

And, yes, there is a fundamental difference between a petty-bourgeois academic, and someone from a working-class background laboring as a graduate instructor or teaching assistant. The latter, much like part-time instructors and adjunct professors at colleges, have only their skilled ability to work to sell and are compelled to sell it at prices dictated by the institution for which they work. The professional petty-bourgeois academic, on the other hand, can more or less set their own prices through a mutually-agreed-to contract, and protect their dictated conditions through tenure.
Ah, I see, thank you. Apologies if my earlier post was a bit peevish, but you see "petty-bourgeois" thrown a bit loosely sometimes, and I'm not always entirely sure what to make of it.

[mikelepore]

I'm retired from working full-time. I was an electrical engineer in a company that makes computers. Now I only work part-time teaching physics at a community college. I just gave the final exam for physics 2, so I'm off until I go back in the fall to teach physics 1.

[Kuppo Shakur]

Whelp, I have an interview tomorrow at a place that is an hour of harrowing back-roads away. If I get the job, I will be risking my life on some of the windiest yet most populated roads around every day to sit at a desk and talk to salesmen all day / think about blowing my brains out, so I can have enough money to pay for gas for my gas-hog truck to drive all the way out there and back. And insurance or some dumb shit like that whatever.
Shit, now I don't want to even go.:(

[Metacomet]

I just started a process to go to Georgia (the Republic, not the state :D) To volunteer for a semester working in a public school assisting English instruction.

[Spawn of Stalin]

A close friend of mine from CPGB-ML spent a week in Gori and apparently visited the Stalin Museum several times. You should definitely check that out.

Anyway, I work in a big warehouse, used to drive a forklift but now I'm what they call a "team leader". Thought it would be cool not having the team leaders checking up on me every five minutes, but now I have the shift manager checking up on me instead. It's still a nice job, I walk around with a clipboard and a pencil behind my ear and people ask me questions which is awesome.

[Comrade J]

Saw this, thought I would post it in this thread for the benefit of people who had previously only considered university education to be to get a well-paid job.

JDEZ2h41t0I

[twenty percent tip]

i dig cans out of the trash cause its good for my rep in leftwing circles. i recycle.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I was unemployed when I first started posting here but then I got my old job back as a chimney sweep (no, I'm not kidding) and I started working part time at a telemarketing joint. I am not really content with where I'm at right now, I feel almost like a robot, I just do, do, do.

I would like to fix this situation but at the moment I don't see how.

[thesadmafioso]

I'm going to be starting my second year of college this fall, working towards a bachelors in European History. Not quite sure where I plan on going from there to be honest, I may go for a degree in teaching from there given the general lack of plurality in the job market for work related to the direct application of a history degree.

I'm satisfied with it for the time being though, hopefully it will work out well enough.

[Proukunin]

I have been unemployed for 2 months. I was a carpenter for 2 years and then with the economy we kind of fell short of work.

I recently have been called by Ormett which is an alumina plant that has United Steelworkers as their union and I'm excited to get back to work. I've had no source of income for a while and it has really put a lot of stress on me to where my blood pressure sky rockets.

So, hopefully once I get working with USW and the plant I'll get back to my normal self:cool:

[Pretty Flaco]

I'm not sure what I want to do yet, but I'm considering being a teacher or an archaeologist.
Teacher because people say I'd be a good one, archaeologist because my brother is one and it really interests me.
I'm not good at sitting in a desk and I hate suits.


I was previously working doing people's yardwork but it isn't very good... so I'm currently applying for various local jobs, mostly at supermarkets.

EDIT
I'm 17 and going into my junior year.

[praxis1966]

I'm going to be starting my second year of college this fall, working towards a bachelors in European History. Not quite sure where I plan on going from there to be honest, I may go for a degree in teaching from there given the general lack of plurality in the job market for work related to the direct application of a history degree.

I'm satisfied with it for the time being though, hopefully it will work out well enough.

I'm not sure if you want to go this route, but if you want to teach I'd recommend getting certified in social science education. It shouldn't be too hard if you're a history major, maybe just take some electives in economics, sociology and poli-sci... Colleges out here in Cali offer a one year teacher credentialing post-grad program for folks who had a strictly academic major so that may be something to consider as well. Anyhow, the reason I say social science rather than history is it makes you vastly more employable since it allows you to teach about 5-6 different subjects as opposed to just history if that's what you get your cert in.

[AnonymousOne]

what job: Network Security/Database Management consultant

how long you've had it: Four years.

how you find it:

I worked at a company for multiple years that screwed me over and finally said "Fuck this."

how you got it in the first place:

I played around with an old commodore at my school when it first got in, and with computers since then. My parents actualyl bought me a commodore64 as a christmas/birthday present in 1987. I got into Network Security/Database Management back in the 90's and got a degree in Computer Information Tech with a minor in Computer Engineering. I finally got a MS last year. It's definitely something not that difficult to get into if you start now and take courses and make a commitment to learn it.

Do you regret the path you took or are you content and satisfied or somewhere in between?:

Extremely satsified and content. I make a lot of money (relatively), I choose my own hours, my own clients, what I get paid etc. I normally upcharge corporations about 200%. :D

Whats the best and worst thing about it:

Best thing is the freedom and security you have. I can always if I need to find a job because I do good work.

The worst thing is the fact that on occasions my job gets a tad bit dull and repetitive giving the same speel about basic security procedures, how to protect the network etc.

[apawllo]

-If you're unemployed, share something about how you've tried to look for work, what jobs you've had in the past, and what your experience has been looking for work and dealing with unemployment benefits (if any exist) in your country.

Most of my job searching occurs on Monster, Careerbuilder, or several government sites. I get tips from friends and family members about jobs as well on occasion. I also have been to a few job fairs in the area recently. Typically those look more promising than they actually are.

Prior to going to school, I worked at a movie theater. During school, I worked at a pharmacy, two different book stores, a miniature golf course, a warehouse, and a grocery store. Since graduating, I've worked at a gas station, done some freelance writing, mystery shopping, and other random stuff. I have about 8 or 9 years or employment experience at this point and never been paid even $9/hour. :/

I'm currently in an interview process for a financial planner position. I could go on about my reservations for a while, but in the end it could be the best opportunity I get. So far, I've been to two interviews and I'm scheduled to return Friday at which point I may be hired.



-Anyone can share what the best job they've had was and what the worst job they've had was (or just one or the other if they prefer). But give some detail about why you found it the way you found it.

I got a job at a movie theater when I turned 16, and worked there until I was about 18. By far the best job I've had. During that span all of my co-workers were some of my closest friends, so going to work was basically just like hanging out. Not to mention, I got to see free movies, which is about the best benefit I could have hoped for at that point in my life.

The worst job I've had was on an assembly line with some printers and envelope stuffing machines. I spent most of my time licking envelopes and placing them in boxes, numbering the boxes, then placing those boxes on crates, as well as shipping and receiving. I met some cool people, but the environment was extremely depressing, every day was the same, and typically involved being told by superiors what exactly to do, down to the very detail such as being told when exactly to shit.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Currently at university studying Economics/Economic History. University (and life in general) has made me rather poor, so I often work dead-end jobs in call centres part-time to bring in some money. Have also worked in sales, events (hotels) and other shit jobs to get monies. Currently working as a teaching assistant in a tuition class part-time, over the summer.

The plan is to work for a couple of years after uni and then pack my bags and go wherever for a couple of years. Work-wise in those couple of years, will either go for a masters in my field as I love it, and then get a related graduate job, or go for a PGCE and teach for a cuople of years, as that's also something i'm quite passionate about.

Career wise, post-travelling, i'd love to work in Air Traffic Control.

However, the best laid plans o' mice and men...:rolleyes::(

[Dr Mindbender]

If i could turn the clock back to school and do things differently, I'd learn programming and in particular web development. Unfortunately, the opportunites to do so at my school were nada and at the time i lacked both the hindsight and finances to buy a computer and self teach (this was the 90's and computers were about $4000!).

Theres a living to be made from independent web development.

[Comrade Crow]

I'm in the culinary arts, I specialize in cooking Mexican cuisine and what I mean by that is, I work at Taco Hell.