The Egyptian Communist party is back again.

[UltraWright]

Hi comrades.

The Egyptian Communist Party was re-inaugurated a few hours ago :D. They have been banned in Egypt for 90 years :cool:!

Still, many sceptical (driven by the Islamists) are arguing that the communist parties around the world have never been successful and are not helping the working class our modern times. Give me examples to debunk their claim!

Thank you in advance.

[Rafiq]

Maybe you should have them read up on, you know, the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917? Communist parties are successful in bringing the working class to power, the problem is post revolutionary vangaurdism.

[UltraWright]

Maybe you should have them read up on, you know, the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917? Communist parties are successful in bringing the working class to power, the problem is post revolutionary vangaurdism.

I know, but that sounds too theoretical to be told to simple minded sceptical. Recall that the politics used to be dangerous in Egypt, and that movements of the left have been presented to the religious population of people as a threat to their beliefs.

I need to know examples of socialist/communist parties in our time. Presenting real life achievements of those parties would be a very strong argument to convince the scepticals that the communist party in Egypt is not a threat!

[dez]

I know, but that sounds too theoretical to be told to simple minded sceptical. Recall that the politics used to be dangerous in Egypt, and that movements of the left have been presented to the religious population of people as a threat to their beliefs.

I need to know examples of socialist/communist parties in our time. Presenting real life achievements of those parties would be a very strong argument to convince the scepticals that the communist party in Egypt is not a threat!

Liberation theology did a pretty good job at countering that "communists eat little babies" mentality in latin america.

You could maybe borrow a little bit and adapt some.

[UltraWright]

Liberation theology did a pretty good job at countering that "communists eat little babies" mentality in latin america.

You could maybe borrow a little bit and adapt some.

I tried and it did not work. The people I am trying to convince want to see down to Earth examples of successful communist parties in work. It is either that or they will keep attaching the party because of the religious prejudice and their belief in the inapplicability of communism.

[Tommy4ever]

There are plenty of examples of good done by various communist parties. In the post war era a huge amount of credit has to be given the communist parties of Italy and especially France for their work in pushing their countries to create more worker friendly structures. Communists played a huge role in the defeat of the fascists in Europe during WWII and later in Spain. Communists within Trade Union movements in Europe played a major role in the working class agitation that forced the ruling parties to give significant concessions to the working class. The problem in the West is that expect for a few exceptions (like France and Italy) the communists rarely got enough power to make significant changes.

If you want to look at the achievments of the Eastern Bloc then I suggest you wait for some M-Ls to turn up - they are always the best at praising them.

Even when they haven't been in power communists have always stood at the forefront of working class movements.

[UltraWright]

There are plenty of examples of good done by various communist parties. In the post war era a huge amount of credit has to be given the communist parties of Italy and especially France for their work in pushing their countries to create more worker friendly structures. Communists played a huge role in the defeat of the fascists in Europe during WWII and later in Spain. Communists within Trade Union movements in Europe played a major role in the working class agitation that forced the ruling parties to give significant concessions to the working class. The problem in the West is that expect for a few exceptions (like France and Italy) the communists rarely got enough power to make significant changes.

If you want to look at the achievments of the Eastern Bloc then I suggest you wait for some M-Ls to turn up - they are always the best at praising them.

Even when they haven't been in power communists have always stood at the forefront of working class movements.

That what I am talking about, real life achievements :).

Dear M-Ls, I am waiting for you comrades!

[Chris]

You could show to Kerala, an area ruled by the Communist Party of India (Marxist). It has the highest standard of living of all indian provinces, lowest starvation levels and highest literacy rate. It is an example from today, and one who shows the development the CPI(M) did which other provinces ruled by conservatives and capitalists could not emulate.

And great news from Egypt!

[Threetune]

Hi comrades.

The Egyptian Communist Party was re-inaugurated a few hours ago :D. They have been banned in Egypt for 90 years :cool:!

Still, many sceptical (driven by the Islamists) are arguing that the communist parties around the world have never been successful and are not helping the working class our modern times. Give me examples to debunk their claim!

Thank you in advance.

Well UW, this is a real good question as are the growing revolutionary circumstances and conditions that give rise to it.
The greatest success of communism / Leninism was the establishment and maintenance of the dictatorship of the proletariat, without which all other achievements where, are, and will be impossible.

If your friends really want to study and explore this they will have to read Lenin, who said:

..." Only he is a Marxist who extends the recognition of the class struggle to the recognition of the dictatorship of the proletariat. This is what constitutes the most profound distinction between the Marxist and the ordinary petty (as well as big) bourgeois. This is the touchstone on which the real understanding and recognition of Marxism should be tested..."


Of course there is much more to say about all this, but this is the starting point to be made in my view. By the way am sure that the Party wasn't banned for 90 years! That might be the next thing to look at?

[GallowsBird]

Well I am a Marxist-Leninist. I think you should point out the good that the Soviets did for the former Soviet Union, giving the countries of it some of the highest standards of living, and some of the longest life expectancy in the world and for being one of the first nations to have a national health service and there were many medical advances in the USSR. You could also highlight the Soviet contributions to the defeat of Hitler's Germany.
You could also point out the fact that in the Eastern Bloc unemployment was rare. You should probably speak to ComradeErich about the Eastern Bloc as he has a lot to say on the matter.

You could also point out to them the fact Cuba is one of the most developed countries in the Caribbean, even though the US is illegally blockading it.

[Chris]

Well UW, this is a real good question as are the growing revolutionary circumstances and conditions that give rise to it.
The greatest success of communism / Leninism was the establishment and maintenance of the dictatorship of the proletariat, without which all other achievements where, are, and will be impossible.

If your friends really want to study and explore this they will have to read Lenin, who said:

..." Only he is a Marxist who extends the recognition of the class struggle to the recognition of the dictatorship of the proletariat. This is what constitutes the most profound distinction between the Marxist and the ordinary petty (as well as big) bourgeois. This is the touchstone on which the real understanding and recognition of Marxism should be tested..."


Of course there is much more to say about all this, but this is the starting point to be made in my view. By the way am sure that the Party wasn't banned for 90 years! That might be the next thing to look at?

I doubt that is a good way to get someone who is sceptical interested. The best thing, in my experience, is to show the successes in terms of practical matters of today's communist parties, wether they are in power or not (like Kerala in India, the industrialisation and increase in living standards of the USSR, Cuba's healthcare system, etc). I've gotten two of my classmates interested in Leninism by such arguments. You need to get them interested before throwing books at them.

[UltraWright]

Here is a video of the ECP march on the 1st of May. They are trying to tell the people about the group and their ideology and you can hear the people in the background telling them that they do not want to have anything to do with that anti-Islamic group :(.

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[Wanted Man]

Thanks for the info and video. Two more links about their announcement and history:

http://links.org.au/node/2227
http://egyptian.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/communist-party-of-egypt-announces-its-resumption-of-publicly-existence/

What's relevant is that they are historically the group of communists who broke away because they did not want to collaborate with the nationalist government, and they were severely prosecuted for this.

The fact that they can now organise openly again is an obvious step forward. To UltraWright, I'm wondering how much of a potential base they have. Egypt seems to have quite a lot of people employed in industry and services, so surely there should be some breeding ground for a communist party there? Or is religious reaction to it still very strong?

[UltraWright]

The fact that they can now organise openly again is an obvious step forward. To UltraWright, I'm wondering how much of a potential base they have. Egypt seems to have quite a lot of people employed in industry and services, so surely there should be some breeding ground for a communist party there? Or is religious reaction to it still very strong?

I am afraid that the religious reaction to it is still very strong :(. I am also bothered by all those leftists exposing themselves on May day. There must have been intelligence elements in the square!

[Tommy4ever]

How could I have forgotten India!

Kerala was the poorest part of India when the Marxist government was first elected ....

[freepalestine]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84/200680013291464




also a new workers party and trade union group (democartic labour party)was also set up on mayday at tahrir square demo
http://www.arabawy.org/blog/

[freepalestine]

PlUctTA-Svo

k-sRzB1BwYI

[Threetune]

I doubt that is a good way to get someone who is sceptical interested. The best thing, in my experience, is to show the successes in terms of practical matters of today's communist parties, wether they are in power or not (like Kerala in India, the industrialisation and increase in living standards of the USSR, Cuba's healthcare system, etc). I've gotten two of my classmates interested in Leninism by such arguments. You need to get them interested before throwing books at them.

“Throwing books at them”? What the hell are you saying? If communist worker read Lenin why is it not good for all workers to read Lenin?

A new fledgling communist movement in Egypt, a country of 90 million odd people with a vast growing and literate young urban population, is going to be criminally negligent if it does not recommend Marxist-Leninist weightings to workers.

Only the most philistine ‘left’ patronising or opportunist politics can reduce the study of the most successful revolutionary leader in all history, to a phrase like “You need to get them interested before throwing books at them.” What condescending bollocks is that?

Of course if you don’t have the knowledge and confidence to engage with “sceptics” by presenting communist literature, that’s another matter, and one you will need to address for yourself first, but why not engage in the study together with the “sceptics” instead of building walls to essential theoretical development, another of the great achievements of communism, if you’d only bother to find out.

[Chris]

“Throwing books at them”? What the hell are you saying? If communist worker read Lenin why is it not good for all workers to read Lenin?

A new fledgling communist movement in Egypt, a country of 90 million odd people with a vast growing and literate young urban population, is going to be criminally negligent if it does not recommend Marxist-Leninist weightings to workers.

Only the most philistine ‘left’ patronising or opportunist politics can reduce the study of the most successful revolutionary leader in all history, to a phrase like “You need to get them interested before throwing books at them.” What condescending bollocks is that?

Of course if you don’t have the knowledge and confidence to engage with “sceptics” by presenting communist literature, that’s another matter, and one you will need to address for yourself first, but why not engage in the study together with the “sceptics” instead of building walls to essential theoretical development, another of the great achievements of communism, if you’d only bother to find out.
Because really, saying "Read Lenin!" is a great way to convince people who hurl insults at you in the street. Coming with examples of what communist parties have actually done may make them interested. Telling them to read a book? Doubt it.

[pranabjyoti]

I tried and it did not work. The people I am trying to convince want to see down to Earth examples of successful communist parties in work. It is either that or they will keep attaching the party because of the religious prejudice and their belief in the inapplicability of communism.
Probably they are living in "another" Earth. I myself is just unable to show any example down to "their" Earth.
In this Earth, there are pretty good examples of "defeating the Nazi Germany", organization of workers for better wages and living standards, rise is living standards of general people after they got the power and many other.

[Threetune]

To start with, I’m really in no position to advise on what tactics should be employed by the parties in Egypt. But the fact that advice is being looked for by the OP is an invitation to have a general discussion at least.

I would have thought it obvious that Islam would oppose the communist party just as Christianity and Buddhism does in other places. But the solution is not in quick fix answers no matter how good they are. In revolutionary conditions shallow opportunism is easily spotted by people seriously needing real answers.

What communists are doing or have done in one part of the world is not necessarily what they should be doing in another. Eg South America and the Middle East. While many of the same general class struggle characteristics are the same the different historical conditions will always give the “sceptical” opposition reason for argument.

The communist parties and their members have to get themselves into a position in the workers movements where they can have ongoing dialog, polemics and arguments with the “sceptics” whoever or wherever they are, any attempt at quick fix could be fatal.

Ali Abd Fathah, a leader of the Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt said: “Ideology verses Ideology, not violence”, and communists there might want to publicly welcome this and take him up on it. But listing past achievements in other places alone, is not going to compete with MB philosophy and organisation. The Arab workers in particular, have good reason for being “sceptical" about communist leadership as it’s been delivered to them around that region and any revitalised CP would do well to study that revisionist history openly in front of the workers in order to win over the “sceptics”.