Another indie thread: East Coast 4 Lyf

[Robespierre Richard]

So I've gotten more familiarized with indie, here's basically a summary of what I've learned:

Likes:
Euro-indie: Foals, Miike Snow, closer to post-punk stuff but not as annoying because it's not so scene.
Electro-indie: Crystal Castles, Cut Copy, LCD Soundsystem, it can be alright, sometimes annoying but I can groove to it.
Chillwave: Neon Indian, AnCo/Panda Bear, it's alright though too though only in combination with everything else.

Dislikes:
Vacuum cleaner indie: twee, indiepop, MIA/Diplo, Sleigh Bells, and the like. Was actually the first indie I was really introduced to when my friend dragged me to some twee concert, basically why I hated indie for the better part of the last 3 years.
West Coast indie: Best Coast, Wolf Gang, yeah I get it you guys are cool and have fun, but I can only listen to your songs like once and then it's boring.
Pacific Northwest indie: basically the bad things about vacuum cleaner indie and the bad things about West Coast indie put together. People who make this music are probably dirty as hell and care about the environment/Zapatistas.

Should look into:

Lo-Fi
Beach Boys inspired surfer indie
???

I bought some white t-shirts and plaid button-downs on sale at Target but when I wear them with my tight jeans and Chuck Taylors I look like one of those black people who skateboard even though I'm white, so not really indie. Dunno where to look for that sort of stuff. Indie friends just wear band shirts but I don't have enough/it's lame because no one would get it.

Any other suggestions/comments/concerns?

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Just random indie/lo-fi/shoegaze/noise-rock shit

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[Robespierre Richard]

Just random indie/lo-fi/shoegaze/noise-rock shit

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Yeah I don't really like vacuum cleaner indie, though this is only borderline vacuum cleaner a lot of it is also borderline punk.

[Sam_b]

See, this is what I don't understand: why are people so keen to genrelise music? Putting it into such categories as 'indie', 'chillwave' (whatever the hell that is) and the like. What is indie music, what does it mean?

Also, why are you going to an effort to dress yourself so you look like you're 'into' the music, part of the 'scene' or whatever? None of it really matters.

Ps the Best Coast album is really good!

[Robespierre Richard]

Lol I went into American Apparel the other day, it's all clothes for FUCKING CLOWNS hahaha.

So yeah whatever I guess you're right Sam_b.

[Invader Zim]

See, this is what I don't understand: why are people so keen to genrelise music? Putting it into such categories as 'indie', 'chillwave' (whatever the hell that is) and the like. What is indie music, what does it mean?

Also, why are you going to an effort to dress yourself so you look like you're 'into' the music, part of the 'scene' or whatever? None of it really matters.

Ps the Best Coast album is really good!

The term 'indie' in th context of rock music is derived from the record label and ethos of the band, though less so these days. I.e. it was alternative rock music that wasn't on one of the big four record labels or one of its sub-labels. The UK Indie Chart was then founded as an alternative to the standard charts. That is pretty much it. However certain prominent 'indie' bands (such as the Smiths), particularly in the 80s, developed a sound/style which has influenced a vast array of bands since, and not regardless of record label, bands that clearly draw influence from that kind of sound are considered 'indie'. Though I agree that this has kind of made the label somewhat meaningless.

Basicly if you say you listen to indie you listen to relatively light rock music. That said grunge started in the indie scene, and plenty of 'indie' bands verge into punk, electronica, hip-hop, jazz and soul, and in some cases hard rock and metal. I also wonder where post-rock and post-metal fit into the whole indie scene. So as a term it is basically a catch-all. I usually tell peope that I'm an indie fan because people associate it with music like the Smiths, the Shins, TV on the Radio, Belle and Sebastian, Trail of Dead (who are all totally different kinds of bands), and I listen to all those kinds of bands so it works.

But I agree, it is all meaningless. I like rock music in nearly all of its forms, I don't care about modern record labels. If I like it, I like it. 'Nuff said.


Some of the bands I like:

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[Robespierre Richard]

I've been getting into dark stuff like Salem, more Crystal Castles, it's pretty good. Wanna find more but it seems like most is just Diplo/Major Lazer type stuff which I don't like at all.

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Still can't get into more rock-type stuff though. I guess because I was never really into it to begin with, not being from America and all.

[Sam_b]

I mean Zim, I broadly agree, - I would argue 'ethos' is out of the way in relation to the idea of independent labels which was more of a predominant factor (Wham!! Gear One, to an extent Rough Trade right back in the day). But really my question was more rhetorical, in the context like it still seems to be the given thing to 'ghettoise' music into a strict scene or genre.

Anyway, videos.

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[Robespierre Richard]

Well indie is more like theres a band and they get signed onto a minor label and release a vinyl EP of like 500 copies but also put those songs on the Internet. Then they get some more buzz on blogs, release some mp3s, go on tour, and then make a full album that has a 50-90% chance of being godawful despite the buzz. Because it's distributed like this it's also a negation of mainstream despite, like mainstream music, not really being genre-specific. The genres are more of a joke than real categorization of the music though there are some genres that "feed into" indie like lo-fi punk rock and dubstep.

[Sam_b]

Well indie is more like theres a band and they get signed onto a minor label and release a vinyl EP of like 500 copies but also put those songs on the Internet. Then they get some more buzz on blogs, release some mp3s, go on tour, and then make a full album that has a 50-90% chance of being godawful despite the buzz.

This argument would infer that 'indie' was invented in like, 2005.

Dsitribution method and necessity does not equate to genre, surely?

[Robespierre Richard]

This argument would infer that 'indie' was invented in like, 2005.

Dsitribution method and necessity does not equate to genre, surely?

That's why alt rock and indie are not the same thing.

[Sam_b]

This is kind of proving my point that all these are hollow words.

[Robespierre Richard]

Listened to much of Wavves discography. Yup, West Coast indie is still inferior.

[Invader Zim]

Well indie is more like theres a band and they get signed onto a minor label and release a vinyl EP of like 500 copies but also put those songs on the Internet. Then they get some more buzz on blogs, release some mp3s, go on tour, and then make a full album that has a 50-90% chance of being godawful despite the buzz. Because it's distributed like this it's also a negation of mainstream despite, like mainstream music, not really being genre-specific. The genres are more of a joke than real categorization of the music though there are some genres that "feed into" indie like lo-fi punk rock and dubstep.


'Indie' long pre-dates myspace, it has fuck all to do with the internet (though a lot of bands dissemenate their music via the internet).

[Robespierre Richard]

'Indie' long pre-dates myspace, it has fuck all to do with the internet (though a lot of bands dissemenate their music via the internet).

Yeah well no one really cares about arts&crafts enthusiasts who like to make small batches of audio recordings.

[Sam_b]

Yeah well no one really cares about arts&crafts enthusiasts who like to make small batches of audio recordings.

http://blackjeezus.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/homer-facepalm.jpg

[Robespierre Richard]

http://blackjeezus.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/homer-facepalm.jpg

Are you one of those bros who has been trying to "make it" in indie since 1987 but no one liked your vacuum cleaner recordings?

[Invader Zim]

Yeah well no one really cares about arts&crafts enthusiasts who like to make small batches of audio recordings.

Dude, you are talking about groups who have sold millions of records. You are talking about some of the biggest and most influencial bands of the last 40 years; pretty much all the bands you stated you liked would be the first to admit that they are shallow rip-offs of a lot of 80s indie bands. And not one of those bands existed at a time when they could exploit the internet.

Repeat after me:

"Indie pre-dates the internet."


Oh and for your enjoyment, a shit load of what you describe as vacuum cleaner indie.



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[Robespierre Richard]

Dude, you are talking about groups who have sold millions of records. You are talking about some of the biggest and most influencial bands of the last 40 years; pretty much all the bands you stated you liked would be the first to admit that they are shallow rip-offs of a lot of 80s indie bands. And not one of those bands existed at a time when they could exploit the internet.

Repeat after me:

"Indie pre-dates the internet."


Oh and for your enjoyment, a shit load of what you describe as vacuum cleaner indie.

Well yeah, that's how music works, it's all basically derivation, you really can't be original unless you're "the first caveman who banged two rocks together." But after a while your movement does solidify and become coherent and not just "a bunch of dudes taking sounds from a few decades ago," if we did that we'd still be stuck in Beethoven ass-worship or something.

Also what you posted is 80s-90s alt rock, not vacuum cleaner indie. Unless you're trying to say that Pixies' sound is basically the same as the specifically vacuum cleaner and Ritalin Goth sound of Wavves.

[Sam_b]

Also what you posted is 80s-90s alt rock, not vacuum cleaner indie. Unless you're trying to say that Pixies' sound is basically the same as the specifically vacuum cleaner and Ritalin Goth sound of Wavves. Total tool. Who are you to define and subcategorise music anyway? Hurp durp it must be 'alt-rock' (whatever the fuck that is) because you said so.

TBH I guess you must be quite insecure and needing to define yourself by any means necessary.

[Sam_b]

Is this 'vacuum cleaner indie' :rolleyes:

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[Robespierre Richard]

Total tool. Who are you to define and subcategorise music anyway? Hurp durp it must be 'alt-rock' (whatever the fuck that is) because you said so.

TBH I guess you must be quite insecure and needing to define yourself by any means necessary.

Me? I'm pretty awesome and I listen to music that I like so I rationalize my tastes in a posteriori categories like everyone else and don't just worship bands from 20 years ago like the greatest thing that's ever happened to 'music.'

edit: and no that's not vacuum cleaner indie, it doesn't have electric guitars with treble turned up to 10 and a high-pitched lead voice like in punk rock, or a rapid tempo. It sounds like stuff my twee friend likes though, just really old.

[Invader Zim]

Well yeah, that's how music works, it's all basically derivation, you really can't be original unless you're "the first caveman who banged two rocks together." But after a while your movement does solidify and become coherent and not just "a bunch of dudes taking sounds from a few decades ago," if we did that we'd still be stuck in Beethoven ass-worship or something.

Also what you posted is 80s-90s alt rock, not vacuum cleaner indie. Unless you're trying to say that Pixies' sound is basically the same as the specifically vacuum cleaner and Ritalin Goth sound of Wavves.

Jesus, you clearly need to brush up on your music history.

Firstly, 'indie rock' is a sub-class of alternative rock. Saying that indie and alternative are distinct is foolish. All indie rock is alternative rock, by definition.

Secondly, Pixies were an archetypal indie rock/noise pop band from the American scene. They were on 4AD, which along with Rough Trade, Factory, etc, were among the biggest indie labels of the 80s/90s (whose rosters read like the A-Z of the indie scene from its emergence in the late 70s to today). Incidentally, Wavves are on Bella Union, which was founded by the Cocteau Twins, who were on 4AD.

Thirdly, Yes, wavves are a total rip off of 80s noise bands like Pixies, Sonic Youth, jesus and the Mary Chain and bands like them from the same era. I kind of have to question whether you've even listened to either Wavves or Pixies if you can't hear there mind bogglingly obvious similarities of the latter to the former; and that is because Wavves and bands like them imitate Pixies, Jesus and the Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, Sonic Youth and other classic indie bands who went down the noise pop-route. (i.e. "electric guitars with treble turned up to 10 and a high-pitched lead voice like in punk rock"). These guys invented what you call "vacuum cleaner" rock. Or rather noise rock/pop.

On this note i'm going to listen to Mogwai, With Portfolio. Because it is white noise turned upto 11 after 1.30 and thus among the greatest tracks ever laid down.

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Far better than Merzbow and CCCC.


nd don't just worship bands from 20 years ago like the greatest thing that's ever happened to 'music.'

Neither do I. Most of the bands I posted in my first post in the thread are modern and whose songs are recent.

[Robespierre Richard]

Jesus, you clearly need to brush up on your music history.

Firstly, 'indie rock' is a sub-class of alternative rock. Saying that indie and alternative are distinct is foolish. All indie rock is alternative rock, by definition.

Secondly, Pixies were an archetypal indie rock/noise pop band from the American scene. They were on 4AD, which along with Rough Trade, Factory, etc, were among the biggest indie labels of the 80s/90s (whose rosters read like the A-Z of the indie scene from its emergence in the late 70s to today). Incidentally, Wavves are on Bella Union, which was founded by the Cocteau Twins, who were on 4AD.

Thirdly, Yes, wavves are a total rip off of 80s noise bands like Pixies, Sonic Youth, jesus and the Mary Chain and bands like them from the same era. I kind of have to question whether you've even listened to either Wavves or Pixies if you can't hear there mind bogglingly obvious similarities of the latter to the former; and that is because Wavves and bands like them imitate Pixies, Jesus and the Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, Sonic Youth and other classic indie bands who went down the noise pop-route. ("electric guitars with treble turned up to 10 and a high-pitched lead voice like in punk rock")

So what you're saying is that Odd Future and Salem aren't indie, right? It's all about rock music and stuff.

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[Sam_b]

So what you're saying is that Odd Future and Salem aren't indie, right?

Jesus fucking Christ. The only person thats throwing things into narrow and meaningless genres is yourself.

[Robespierre Richard]

Jesus fucking Christ. The only person thats throwing things into narrow and meaningless genres is yourself.

No I get it bro, no one who is 'into indie' and reads music blogs would ever be into any of these bands.

btw indie isn't a genre.

[Sam_b]

btw indie isn't a genre.

Euro-indie

Electro-indie

Chillwave

West Coast indie

:rolleyes:

[Invader Zim]

So what you're saying is that Odd Future and Salem aren't indie, right? It's all about rock music and stuff.


No, I'm not saying that at all; quite clearly 'indie' within its wider sense can apply to all genres of music. Though I would say that they aren't 'indie rock' (which is what we are talking about), or any other type of rock music for that matter.

[Invader Zim]

No I get it bro, no one who is 'into indie' and reads music blogs would ever be into any of these bands.

btw indie isn't a genre.


Sure they would. Pitchfork gave King Night 7.5, and FACT gave it 4.5/5.

[Robespierre Richard]

:rolleyes:

I don't see a problem here. Is there something inherently wrong about naming a sort/region of music production and indicating that it's of the indie variety? Should they just be put into alphanumeric matrices so that no one has any idea what's going on?


No, I'm not saying that at all; quite clearly 'indie' within its wider sense can apply to all genres of music. Though I would say that they aren't 'indie rock' (which is what we are talking about), or any other type of rock music for that matter.

I wasn't talking about indie rock though, and a lot of the indie music today that does have genre roots in rock is shedding them by adopting characteristics of other genres, becoming general things that are not primarily rock or any other genre alone, like chillwave.

[Fawkes]

Then what were you talking about if you weren't referring to indie rock? Were you talking about indie bands in the sense that they are independent from major labels/distributors? If so, you may wanna check up on a couple of those bands you listed in your first post, cause not all of them are exactly "independent". I mean, really, you started off by telling us how you were gonna go out and get some "indie" clothes, how the hell are we supposed to take this seriously? You seem to be spending more time and energy categorizing these bands than just listening to them for what they are and appreciating that. If you like something, listen to it, if you don't, then don't. Don't waste your time with these stupid, meaningless labels that you don't even know the supposed meanings of.


And while you're at it, read Our Band Could Be Your Life and get a copy of No New York if you wanna get an idea of the history of experimental/alternative/independent music in the U.S.

[Sam_b]

Our Band Could Be Your Life

If i'm thinking of the same book that's an excellent choice. The chapter on Mission of Burma is brilliant.

[Fawkes]

If i'm thinking of the same book that's an excellent choice. The chapter on Mission of Burma is brilliant.

Yeah, it's the one that chronicles 13 different underground bands from the 80s. Mission of Burma's chapter was fuckin awesome (as was the band), I definitely suggest this book to anyone who hasn't read it. For any of you too lazy, at least check out the bands listed in the book, they are all varying degrees of awesome:

Black Flag, Minutemen, Mission of Burma, Minor Threat, Husker Du, The Replacements, Sonic Youth, Butthole Surfers, Big Black, Dinosaur Jr., Fugazi, Mudhoney, and Beat Happening.