Are we ever going to build a Utopia?

[UltraWright]

Do you think that we are ever going to have a Utopia on Earth?

[Queercommie Girl]

Depends on what you mean by "utopia".

Are we ever going to have a society that is literally "perfect"? No.

Can we have a society in which there is always the potential scope for making things better, no matter how good they might have already become? Yes, there is no metaphysical upper limit to "progress".

"Beyond the heavens there are even more heavens." - Ancient Chinese proverb

In this sense, a dynamic utopia is possible, a static utopia is not.

[Tablo]

Lol, not a utopia. We might achieve communism though.

[Tommy4ever]

Utopia is something that does not and can never exist.

Communism on the other hand can and, we all hope, will.

Its not about creating a perfect world, its about creating a better world.

[Q]

I prefer "heaven on Earth" phraseology, especially regarding religious people ;)

[Queercommie Girl]

Its not about creating a perfect world, its about creating a better world.

I agree, but I would also add that the act of "creating a better world" is not a singular event, but a continuous dynamic process.

Which is why I said: dynamic utopia is possible, static utopia is not.

Utopia is not a state of being, it's the act of creation.

[Tommy4ever]

I agree, but I would also add that the act of "creating a better world" is not a singular event, but a continuous dynamic process.

Which is why I said: dynamic utopia is possible, static utopia is not.

Utopia is not a state of being, it's the act of creation.

Yes. I realise we want to continously try to build to a better world.

But I hope you don't think we can ever create a 'Utopia'. Because that is simply not possible.

[Queercommie Girl]

Yes. I realise we want to continously try to build to a better world.

But I hope you don't think we can ever create a 'Utopia'. Because that is simply not possible.

My point is that "continuously building a better world" is "utopia". ;)

"Utopia" is dynamic, not static.

[SacRedMan]

Alll political systems are Utopian. it's only a matter of how you practise it, or the holes in the theories that can damage it.

[ZeroNowhere]

No, because man is naturally evil. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[SacRedMan]

No, because man is naturally evil. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If you were in a burning house, and there are strangers in that house that you never met, who would you save? You and some property or those strangers?

[ZeroNowhere]

I am not speaking in an empirical sense (which would be nonsensical), so that is irrelevant.

[Queercommie Girl]

I am not speaking in an empirical sense (which would be nonsensical), so that is irrelevant.

To talk about "good" and "evil" in a non-empirical non-historical abstract metaphysical sense is itself totally non-sensical. Metaphysical ethics simply does not exist, so "human nature" is neither "good" nor "evil".

And there is no such thing as a static "human nature" that does not change and cannot change in the historical sense.

All things are either historical, or they are non-existent.

[gorillafuck]

Not to say that everything is human nature (lol at how this gets me accused of thinking that) but people that think humans have no innate tendencies don't understand the way humans work.

[Queercommie Girl]

Not to say that everything is human nature (lol at how this gets me accused of thinking that) but people that think humans have no innate tendencies don't understand the way humans work.

Humans have some "innate tendencies" in the purely materialistic/biological sense, (and potentially these could be changed too via e.g. transhumanism) but not in the metaphysical ethical sense of being "good" or "evil".

You could say that one of the innate qualities of human beings is to possess the ability to breathe air, but it is non-sensical to say that human beings are intrinsically "good" or "evil".

It's not that human nature doesn't exist, it's metaphysical ethics which does not exist.

Human nature exists of course, but it's never static or absolute.

Human biological attributes are of course also historical, since every one of them is the product of evolution, which is historical.

[Red Commissar]

Yes, I got a nice one in my bathroom right now in fact.

[Dumb]

Look what happened the last time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97H6diExocA) we tried utopia...