Is Che Guevara Merchanise Contradictory?

[Cody_2ZZ]

I own a Che Guevara shirt and I wear it relatively often. One day I got to thinking that Che would probably disapprove of having his image on a piece of merchandise. Are we just capitalizing on his infamy?

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

I own a Che Guevara shirt and I wear it relatively often. One day I got to thinking that Che would probably disapprove of having his image on a piece of merchandise. Are we just capitalizing on his infamy?

Depends how you define "capitalizing?" doesn't it? I would hardly put the guys selling t-shirts of El Che, or handmade EZLN dolls on the streets of Mexico City or in the markets of Chiapas in the same league as the owners of Walmart. On the other hand I think it's reasonable for the buyer and the seller to ask questions: not whether somebody makes money (that's not capitalism, it's just what most people need to do), but how the money's made.

Truth in advertising: I feel a lot less guilty about distributing this:
http://theorangepress.com/publications/theredmuseum.html

than about distributing these:
http://zazzle.com/theorangepress


Not because t-shirts are intrinsically more "capitalist" than books, but because, since I produce the books myself and distribute them myself I have a lot more opportunity to sidestep all kinds of exploitation, for instance by selling the books for a range of prices, from "free" for inmates and third-world or reservation libraries, to $200.00 for rich assholes; or again, by distributing the books through street sellers instead of Amazon.

Kind of like the guys in Mexico, actually: Capitalism is something that's hard to get around, but at least the buyer and the seller can try to get over.

[Rooster]

I don't think it says anywhere in Capital that you can't have a t-shirt with a face on it.

[Kassad]

I have a Che Guevara shirt. People who whine and complain about how "Che shirts are made by corporations" don't realize that the vast majority of clothing they own is made by corporations exploiting labor. Why not at least wear a shirt with a political message? Every time someone asks me who is on my shirt, I tell them and I give them some revolutionary literature. We go our separate ways, but at least I had a chance to engage someone and maybe give them a chance to see what socialism really is. That's my perspective, at least.

[Cody_2ZZ]

I agree with you, Kassad. I feel that if everything is pretty much manufactured by people in sweat shops or by machine, why not wear a shirt with a good message. I find also that a lot of the leftist shirts and products are made my very small operations. These are the operations I try to support.

[Bardo]

Yes. If the shirt is being mass produced and sold for profit it is contradictory. It's no worse than buying any other peice of clothing, it's just a little ironic. It's like buying a "Capitalism sucks" shirt from a mall somewhere at retail price :D

I would buy one myself, but I just don't feel like getting into a Che debate 5 times a day with strangers.

[Lunatic Concept]

Meh I just bought a big poster.

[progressive_lefty]

I think it's pathetic when its made to represent something other then what Che Guevara fought for and represented.

[Ned Kelly]

I do think it is a cheapening of the everything he fought for. What happened to DIY, make your own Che stuff, it will mean a million times more!

[CHEtheLIBERATOR]

If your one of those d bags that where the shirt cuz it's cool than it's contradictory, if you really support him than it's just fine

[R3DSCAR3]

If your one of those d bags that where the shirt cuz it's cool than it's contradictory, if you really support him than it's just fine

I don't really think douchebag is the proper term, more like ignorant americans. yes, that's right... But even those that wear the shirt without it's knowledge are realistically good, they spread his face. People are more likely to look up the shirt and the man the shirt is about. :thumbup1:

[-marx-]

I have never been scared to wear imagery of my philosophy for one simple reason. When people see me, they realize what a nice guy I am (as has been reported back to me many times via a third party) and they also realize I'm a Marxist. What occurs here quite often is it gives them a differing opinion on Marxism, or at the very minimum makes them think "If communism is so bad (like they have been taught), why is this guy, who's a communist, so nice, so respectful, so courteous?"

As Mao said: "We must lead by example". That is why I am not shy about wearing imagery of Marxism. And if it changed only one persons opinion that Marxism is not equal to Stalinism or KimIlSungism, then the wearing of such imagery was worth it.

:D

[Revmind84]

I have never been scared to wear imagery of my philosophy for one simple reason. When people see me, they realize what a nice guy I am (as has been reported back to me many times via a third party) and they also realize I'm a Marxist. What occurs here quite often is it gives them a differing opinion on Marxism, or at the very minimum makes them think "If communism is so bad (like they have been taught), why is this guy, who's a communist, so nice, so respectful, so courteous?"

As Mao said: "We must lead by example". That is why I am not shy about wearing imagery of Marxism. And if it changed only one persons opinion that Marxism is not equal to Stalinism or KimIlSungism, then the wearing of such imagery was worth it.

:D

True indeed!

[Chicxulub]

I have a Che Guevara shirt. People who whine and complain about how "Che shirts are made by corporations" don't realize that the vast majority of clothing they own is made by corporations exploiting labor. Why not at least wear a shirt with a political message? Every time someone asks me who is on my shirt, I tell them and I give them some revolutionary literature. We go our separate ways, but at least I had a chance to engage someone and maybe give them a chance to see what socialism really is. That's my perspective, at least.

Now that's the way to convince somebody that propagating everything Che Guevara stood against and shitting on everything Che Guevara stood for is okay! maybe I should start eating baby seals for dinner? afterall, those baby seals will just die anyways! :rolleyes:

[CHE with an AK]

From a pro-Che perspective
"During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it."
— Vladimir Lenin, The State and Revolution
Duke Latin American studies professor Ariel Dorfman hypothesizes that Che's been "comfortably transmogrified into a symbol of rebellion" precisely because those in power no longer believe him to be dangerous. Dorfman suspects the attempt to subvert Che could backfire, positing that 3 billion people now live on less than $2 a day and thus "the powerful of the earth should take heed: deep inside that T shirt where we have tried to trap him, the eyes of Che Guevara are still burning with impatience." Expressing a similar sentiment, director Jonathan Green acknowledges that "Che is turning over in his grave" because of the commercialization; in Green's view, Che's visage also has the potential to be a "Trojan horse" of capitalist marketing, by embedding itself into pop iconography. In his example, corporations in their desperate drive to sell goods, create the opportunity for observers to see the "logo" and ask "who was that guy?" Trisha Ziff, curator of Che! Revolution and Commerce believes that regardless of the "postmodern" diffusion, you can't disassociate Che from "radical ideas and change", nor can one control it. In Ziff's view, despite the endless array of merchandising, the symbol of Che will continue to be worn and have resonance. Critical pedagogical theorist Peter McLaren theorizes that American capitalism is responsible for the Che phenomenon, stating that "the United States has a seductive way of incorporating anything that it can’t defeat and transforming that 'thing' into a weaker version of itself, much like the process of diluting the strength and efficacy of a virus through the creation of a vaccine." Neo-Marxist and critical theorist Herbert Marcuse argued that in the contemporary capitalist world there is no escaping such co-optation, theorizing that we are made “one-dimensional” by capitalism’s single-minded orientation toward greed and growth. Author Susan Sontag spoke of the potential positive ramifications of utilizing Che as a symbol, positing:
"I don’t disdain the impact of Che as a romantic image, especially among newly radicalized youth in the United States and Western Europe; if the glamour of Che’s person, the heroism of his life, and the pathos of his death, are useful to young people in strengthening their disaffiliation from the life-style of American imperialism and in advancing the development of a revolutionary consciousness, so much the better."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara_in_popular_culture

[Ilyich]

I have a Che Guevara shirt. People who whine and complain about how "Che shirts are made by corporations" don't realize that the vast majority of clothing they own is made by corporations exploiting labor. Why not at least wear a shirt with a political message? Every time someone asks me who is on my shirt, I tell them and I give them some revolutionary literature. We go our separate ways, but at least I had a chance to engage someone and maybe give them a chance to see what socialism really is. That's my perspective, at least.

You have a valid point. The vast majority of my cloths and others' cloths are most likely produced in a sweatshop. My main fear is that we may be downplaying Che's historical significance, turning him from a revolutionary hero into a commodity. Iw orry that wearing the shirt is no longer about socialism, but about capitalism. I see apathetic people wearing it all the time.

[Zav]

I have a Che shirt that I lifted from Wal-Mart a couple weeks ago. It is incredibly ironic that Wal-Mart sells them, but by denying them the profit from it (and several other things while I was at it), I think it undoes the hypocrisy.

[CHE with an AK]

Che still a folk hero in Argentina

6noTrPlERlg

[LostDesperado]

All shirts from the Che store site are sweat shop free. (This is only for those that order from the Che site.)

[Ocean Seal]

I have a Che Guevara shirt. People who whine and complain about how "Che shirts are made by corporations" don't realize that the vast majority of clothing they own is made by corporations exploiting labor. Why not at least wear a shirt with a political message? Every time someone asks me who is on my shirt, I tell them and I give them some revolutionary literature. We go our separate ways, but at least I had a chance to engage someone and maybe give them a chance to see what socialism really is. That's my perspective, at least.
Kassad makes a good point. I'm tired of this crap about how we can't wear clothing if were communists (because as Kassad pointed out its all made through exploitation) because that makes us hypocrites somehow. Yes, it was made on the free market just like everything else. There is no way to avoid it. Its just like saying I refuse to eat corn in feudal France because it was made through manorial production. I don't wear a Che T-Shirt simply because so many damn liberals wear it that it pisses me off. But in any case, one is not a fake revolutionary for wearing the clothing.
/Rant

[Aspiring Humanist]

If the shirt was made in a 100% workers managed factory, then I suppose not. But producing a Che shirt in a sweatshop in Indonesia is irony on several levels.
I don't have one because the fact of the matter is the shirt (for the most part) isn't about being revolutionary or supporting the ideas of Che, its simply about being fashionable. Most if not all of the tools I see with Che shirts are liberal democrat bourgeois that don't have the slightest idea of who Che was or what he stood for.
So the shirt isn't contradictory in my opinion if you know who he was (and it was produced in a workers co-op), but when there are mass produced beanies, shirts, bags, keychains, bumperstickers, sweatshirts, etc. there is a problem

[ellipsis]

There is a thread for this in the che sub-forum...

[CommieTroll]

Basically in a way its using Capitalism against itself :D

[Red Future]

I own one too , though I intend to wear a Shirt with the Mozambique flag as it has an openly revolutionary theme.

[WeRallMarcos]

Once Che was asked for an autograph by an admirer at the Havana airport.

Che replied (paraphrasing) "I am not a movie star." And simply turned around.

So, even though i own a Che shirt and Flag, I think he would be against it. But probably out of humility and modesty. Although unwavering in his ideas and Marxism, he was a very self-critical and fair person.

[Old Mole]

The thing with the industry around Che is that it integrates him into capitalist society. Capitalists do this all the time and it is called recuperation. Recuperation is about finding oppositional tendencies and use them for the profit of capital thereby neutralizing its subversive effects. When big movie industry makes films about Guevara and his face is selled worldwide then it means that they have turned him into an empty image. Though I also couldnt care less about lifestyle choices like fashion. Wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt is about as revolutionary as collecting stamps.

[ColonelCossack]

Good point... i've always said not to idolise our greatest comrades!

[Reznov]

I have been wearing the same shirts for awhile now, and whenever I buy new clothing, I always get it from re-selling stores. This is more of a lifestyle choice, but its little way of trying to fight against wal-mart etc.

But honestly, I think wearing a Che shirt is tacky and pretty lame (Mostly "hipsters" try to wear them to be cool"). The day I have to wear a little shirt to get my message across is the day I start selling myself as an advertisement.

[Reznov]

I own one too , though I intend to wear a Shirt with the Mozambique flag as it has an openly revolutionary theme.

If only that was the actual case for Mozambique today.