Presidents

[tradeunionsupporter]

How do I explain to a Democrat as to why Presidents Roosevelt Truman Johnson and are bad Leaders these Presidents did head the USA Military which did commit War Crimes in Japan and or in Vietnam correct ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki


THE PEARL HARBOR DECEPTION

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/pearl_harbor.htm

[Sickle-A]

uhhh..Roosevelt brought the US into WWII, even allegedly allowing the Pearl Harbor attacks to occur for propogandistic purposes. Truman dropped the bombs on Japan, killing hundreds of thousands to end a war already won. Johnson kept Vietnam going, allowed plenty of atrocities, not to mention just being a general dick. I'm not really sure what else to say; I'm not used to having to justify my vitriol for these leaders, though I'm sure some socialists around here appreciate aspects of the New Deal;)

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

LBJ should be pretty simple, the guy quit the job instead of face the voters over the mess he had made.

Truman did drop the bombs, though I for one have no qualms about him doing so. If the war had been "already won," Japan would already have surrendered unconditionally.

FDR is obviously going to be the toughest nut to crack. Many Americans feel no remorse about killing Nazis, even firebombing their cities.

The claim that FDR knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened is ridiculous in my opinion. That Japan was a threat to attack the Phillipines or other US territory to start a war? Sure. That Japan was going to launch an attack on the US itself using hundreds of airplanes launched off ships in the Pacific? Not so much. If you think it may have been known, consider the fact that in 1941 there was large debate in the US, both in the military and outside, about whether the aircraft carrier was a feasible weapon at all, let alone considering an attack on the scale launched by the Japanese being imminent. Pearl Harbor was really the first attack of its kind, to suggest that FDR should have seen it coming sounds great in retrospect but isn't based in reality imo.

[Summerspeaker]

Democrats (at least/especially environmentalists) tend to love Teddy Roosevelt too, an avowed white supremacist and imperialist warmonger. What are you going to do? That's just how they role.

[Property Is Robbery]

Democrats (at least/especially environmentalists) tend to love Teddy Roosevelt tooI always thought liberals only had a boner for FDR (although a raging one at that)

[Summerspeaker]

I've encountered countless environmentalist liberals who adore Teddy for creating the park system and whatnot. I don't believe I've ever heard anyone aside from radicals criticize em. Your mileage may vary.

[Property Is Robbery]

Good point I forgot about the national park thing although I've never heard him get praise for it.

[Summerspeaker]

In one poll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_St ates#Popular_opinion) Teddy got a 84% favorability rating, the 4th highest of any president. FDR got 81%.

[Dumb]

I always thought liberals only had a boner for FDR (although a raging one at that)

Liberals love Teddy Roosevelt because the fact that he wasn't quite a far-right nut* allows liberals to ask, disingenuously, "Why can't today's Republicans be like Teddy Roosevelt?!"

*Imperialist, yes; white supremacist, yes. But he supported a fair portion of social democratic platform, and was no friend of big business.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I like his so-far-right-its-actually-left bull moose platform for the Presidency in 1912, though many people say it stole much of the thunder the socialists were trying to nab. But Progressive platform or not if teddy had won that election the us would probably have meddled in europes war early on. And that wouldn't be good for anyone.

I hold Teddy in high regard, considering his copntemporaries, but Mt Rushmore? Please. Just being the father of yankee imperialism isn't enough for me personally, though I must admit the national parks are quite nice.

[RGacky3]

Back when Roosevelt was around republicans and democrats looked MUCH differently, hell, Lincoln was left leaning.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

It's especially funny when different politicians build up the partys history. Especially on the GOP side, where history starts in 1980 (the dems at least go back to FDR, as well as reminding people that even though he wasn't a good president JFK was young and cool at one time).

That the first calls for any reform were made by Republicans is somehwat humorous in this day and age, considering that everything TR brought up in his square deal or progressive party platforms are being demonized by the GOP as what ails western civilization. Comparing TR's New Nationalism and Wilsons New Freedom platforms, one would think that they were the grandfathers of the opposite party in this day and age (though no doubt FDR incorporated elements of both later, if that makes any sense at all lol).