Syrian fake revolution?

[Brasileirinho]

I read an article from a newspaper in my city here in Brasil. It has an interview with a Syrian descendant that lives here in my city and goes once a yer to Syria. The tradesman Namer Assad, says that the international reporters that cover the "war" are not trustable because they only defend politicians tied to Israel and the USA. This happens due to Syria's alliance with Iran and the struggle to maintain a good relationship with Israel.
Assad also says that his brother ( who lives in Syria ) talked to him on the phone and said that the protests are iniciated by FOREIGNERS. And the number of people who participate these protests arent half as much as said by the press.
He also says “O povo sírio está 95% com Bashar Assad", The syrian people are 95% with Bashar Assad. And that if that wasnt true, he would have ALREADY FALLEN.
My state's council, Ab**do Dib Abage, said the crysis is moved by external political and economic interests.

The forum doesnt permit me to post links, so if you wanna see the article go to
gazetadopovodotcomdotbr and go all the way down and look for a pic with a Syrian flag, its in portuguese, so most of you wont understand a word

Peace

[redhotpoker]

the Brazilian government and capitalist class are close friends with the Syrian state so i'm not sure if id believe that.

Obviously the US has reason it would want to undermine Syria, but we should take this kind of news with a grain of salt.

Why would the US/Israel and Britain destabilize Syria while their hands are full in Libya?

[Dimmu]

Israel and USA has no reason to destabilize Syria for one reason only.. Assad is trustable.. Israeli-Syrian border on Golan is the most peaceful border in the middle east.. Israel needs Assad in power because he is predictable.. Same reason why Israel wanted Mubarak to stay.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Israel and USA has no reason to destabilize Syria for one reason only.. Assad is trustable.. Israeli-Syrian border on Golan is the most peaceful border in the middle east.. Israel needs Assad in power because he is predictable.. Same reason why Israel wanted Mubarak to stay.

Yeah, that's why the U.S. were exposed funding Syrian opposition, right?


Paper: Documents show US funding Syrian opposition
April 18, 2011

WASHINGTON – The State Department has been secretly financing opponents of Syrian President Bashar Assad, The Washington Post reported, citing previously undisclosed diplomatic documents provided to the newspaper by the WikiLeaks website.

One of the outfits funded by the U.S. is Barada TV, a London-based satellite channel that broadcasts anti-government news into Syria, the Post reported Sunday. Barada’s chief editor, Malik al-Abdeh, is a cofounder of the Syrian exile group Movement for Justice and Development.

The leaked documents show that the U.S. has provided at least $6 million to Barada TV and other opposition groups inside Syria, the newspaper said.

The Obama administration has reached out to Assad’s regime, hoping to persuade it to change its policies regarding Israel, Lebanon, Iraq and support for extremist groups. In January, the U.S. stationed an ambassador in Damascus, the capital, for the first time in five years.

The Post said it was not clear from the WikiLeaks documents whether the U.S. was still financing Assad’s opponents, though they showed funding had been set aside through September 2010.

Syrian activists have been staging protests against Assad’s authoritarian regime for more than a month. More than 200 people have been killed as security forces tried to crush the protests.

On Sunday, gunmen opened fire during a funeral for a slain anti-government protester, killing at least three people, according to witnesses and activists. Tens of thousands of Syrians took to the streets nationwide despite Assad’s promise to end nearly 50 years of emergency rule this week, a key demand of the protesters.

Last week, the State Department said Iran appeared to be helping Syria crack down on protesters, calling it a troubling example of Iranian meddling in the region.

“If Syria’s turning to Iran for help, it can’t be very serious about real reform,” spokesman Mark Toner told reporters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42639285/ns/politics/

[The Vegan Marxist]

the Brazilian government and capitalist class are close friends with the Syrian state so i'm not sure if id believe that.

Obviously the US has reason it would want to undermine Syria, but we should take this kind of news with a grain of salt.

Why would the US/Israel and Britain destabilize Syria while their hands are full in Libya?

I do agree that we should take this with a grain of salt. I wish this was what everyone did during the beginning stages of the Libyan conflict.

Having said that, in regards to your comment, "Why would the US/Israel and Britain destabilize Syria while their hands are full in Libya?," isn't this essentially the same thing people were asking before the U.S. got involved in Libya, except we were asking ourselves why would the U.S. even get involved in Libya when they're currently dealing with 2 open wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a secret war in Pakistan?

[RadioRaheem84]

Damn, Vegan, you're really on top of this!

[Obs]

Great, another lose-lose in the Middle East. We haven't seen enough of those lately.

[Sickle-A]

Yeah, that's why the U.S. were exposed funding Syrian opposition, right?

If they think that the opposition will be successful, of course they will try to buddy up with them. Italy was appeasing Qaddafi just a few weeks ago, but is now bombing Libya with the rest of the Imperialists. They just want a puppet in charge; it doesn't matter who it is.

[RadioRaheem84]

But I would not call Assad a puppet.

[Sword and Shield]

Israeli-Syrian border on Golan is the most peaceful border in the middle east.

That's only cause Syria's former allies, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, are now Western puppets (well there's some hope for Egypt left).

I doubt Israel liked the ass-kicking it got from Hezbollah which got weapons from Syria.

[RadioRaheem84]

Hezbollah is the primary reason Israel would want to take out Assad.

[The Vegan Marxist]

^Exactly. Israel's current issue is the fact that Palestine could finally be recognized as an official country again due to increasing global support. With Egypt replacing Israel's ambassador for Iran's ambassador, Hezbollah remaining a majority-supported anti-Israeli force, Iran only growing stronger, and Libya clearly not going into the hands of the imperialists as originally planned, the fact that Syria is part of the pro-Palestine coalition, Israel will take advantage of this and try to destabilize the country.

[Threetune]

Israel and USA has no reason to destabilize Syria for one reason only.. Assad is trustable.. Israeli-Syrian border on Golan is the most peaceful border in the middle east.. Israel needs Assad in power because he is predictable.. Same reason why Israel wanted Mubarak to stay.

The penny might drop soon.
IMPERIALISM JUST WANTS MORE WAR!
IT IS THEIR ONLY ‘SOLUTION’ TO THEIR ECONOMIC CRISIS!
THAT IS WHY WE NEED COMUNIST REVOLUTION AND PROLETARIAN DICTATORSHIP!

[agnixie]

But I would not call Assad a puppet.

No, simply a predictable good old chap we do business with.


THAT IS WHY WE NEED COMUNIST REVOLUTION AND PROLETARIAN DICTATORSHIP!

No, we don't, you quite clearly demonstrated that national sovereignty is sacrosanct even in the face of two reactionary forces tearing each other apart.

[RadioRaheem84]

No, simply a predictable good old chap we do business with.

Were you not around when the anti-Assad rhetoric was employed during the initial stages of the Iraq War?

The support for Hezbollah and the support of the Iraqi insurgency are primary reasons why Assad is no puppet and is probably wanted out by Israel and the US.

[agnixie]

Were you not around when the anti-Assad rhetoric was employed during the initial stages of the Iraq War?

The support for Hezbollah and the support of the Iraqi insurgency are primary reasons why Assad is no puppet and is probably wanted out by Israel and the US.

I know the rhetoric. There's also been a lot of rhetoric against Qaddafi. He was still cozying up with Berlusconi, Haider and the like at the time.

The imperialist powers do not act with one voice, you know. Never did. Never will. Sometimes I wonder if any of you guys would believe world war 1 even happened.

[RadioRaheem84]

What does what you said have anything to do in a situation in which we're talking about two particularly strong interests (Israel and the US) wanting to oust Assad?

What did Chirac's cozy relationship with Saddam Hussein have to do with saving his ass from US intervention?

Assad is no puppet of the US. I am not defending his nationalist bourgeois ass but this notion that he is a puppet in the same vein as Mubarak doesn't fly. Mubarak was never aiding a powerful opposition force against Israel in Lebanon, nor giving money/aid to Iraqi insurgents.

[Sword and Shield]

Mubarak was never aiding a powerful opposition force against Israel in Lebanon, nor giving money/aid to Iraqi insurgents.

On the contrary, he was happily accepting Western aid to purchase Western military products in exchange for blockading Gaza.

[agnixie]

What does what you said have anything to do in a situation in which we're talking about two particularly strong interests (Israel and the US) wanting to oust Assad?

Only the US. You people keep pointing out how they're going to be replaced by US led islamic extremists. Which is exactly not what Israel wants.



What did Chirac's cozy relationship with Saddam Hussein have to do with saving his ass from US intervention?

Nothing. It, however, shows that imperialists have conflicting interests.



Assad is no puppet of the US. I am not defending his nationalist bourgeois ass but this notion that he is a puppet in the same vein as Mubarak doesn't fly. Mubarak was never aiding a powerful opposition force against Israel in Lebanon, nor giving money/aid to Iraqi insurgents.
Indeed, he's no puppet of the US. But still a puppet.

[Sword and Shield]

Indeed, he's no puppet of the US. But still a puppet.

Of who? Himself? :confused:

[agnixie]

Of who? Himself? :confused:

There's the BRIC, there's the European Union with France being pretty active on its own and Italy sometimes trying to act like a great imperialist power in the med.

In this case I'd say a mix of the EU and Russia.

It's not because US power is overwhelming that they're the only imperialist country.

[Sword and Shield]

There's the BRIC, there's the European Union with France being pretty active on its own and Italy sometimes trying to act like a great imperialist power in the med.

In this case I'd say a mix of the EU and Russia.

It's not because US power is overwhelming that they're the only imperialist country.

And in what way have the EU and Russia influenced the Syrian government? I guess they had Assad supply weapons to Hezbollah for them.

[agnixie]

And in what way have the EU and Russia influenced the Syrian government? I guess they had Assad supply weapons to Hezbollah for them.

Unlike you, I'm not claiming it's all one or all the other and never the twain shall meet. He's been largely going for a rapprochement with modern Russia (which just in case I'll remind our ML friends it's not the USSR anymore), he's also acted towards the palestinians in unison with Israel and Egypt. I'm not sure whether it has influenced his government itself, but being an italian puppet doesn't seem to have influenced the inner workings of the Libyan government either.

[Sword and Shield]

Unlike you, I'm not claiming it's all one or all the other and never the twain shall meet. He's been largely acting friendly and puppety towards current day Russia (which just in case I'll remind our ML friends it's not the USSR anymore),

You mean buying weapons from them so Syria is not totally powerless against the Israeli military?


he's also acted towards the palestinians in unison with Israel and Egypt.

WTF? No he hasn't.

I don't know if you guys are seriously suggesting that Assad is a puppet or you're just trolling. If the former, try working on your IQ. If the latter, gtfo.

[RadioRaheem84]

Only the US. You people keep pointing out how they're going to be replaced by US led islamic extremists. Which is exactly not what Israel wants.


Nothing. It, however, shows that imperialists have conflicting interests.


Indeed, he's no puppet of the US. But still a puppet.

You keep going on about "you people", just WTF do you mean by "you people"?

Secondly, no one in here is insinuating that Syria will be replaced by radicals, but that the US has used radicals in the past to destabilize nations and may be doing that in Libya.

This doesn't mean that the US or Israel would support a radical State but will support a rickety liberal democracy more favorable to US and Israeli interests.

Showing that imperialists have different interests means nothing when we're dealing with two powerful nations that tend to work unilaterally with their foreign policy.

Him not being a puppet of the US is entirely the point. No one is going to save his ass.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't know if you guys are seriously suggesting that Assad is a puppet or you're just trolling. If the former, try working on your IQ. If the latter, gtfo.


His (or her) analysis is so way off base, I assumed it was trolling at first too.

[agnixie]

His (or her) analysis is so way off base, I assumed it was trolling at first too.

Fine, I'm partially trolling on Assad, he's still a baath leader, and what he's facing is still a weird mix of bourgeois and sort of religious rebels. With left wing workers in that mix.

But of course let's ignore it for a moment, it would look too much like cheering for Metaxas.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to grasp that being anti-imperialism doesn't translate into being pro-nationalist bourgeois. I can separate the two concepts just fine and understand that NATO backed imperial ventures at humanitarian liberation are always worse for the people of the targeted country. WORSE.

[bcbm]

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to grasp that being anti-imperialism doesn't translate into being pro-nationalist bourgeois. I can separate the two concepts just fine and understand that NATO backed imperial ventures at humanitarian liberation are always worse for the people of the targeted country. WORSE.

does this mean you can also separate being anti-"national liberation" from being "pro imperialist?"

[RedSunRising]

does this mean you can also separate being anti-"national liberation" from being "pro imperialist?"

Being anti-national liberation isnt necessarily the same as being pro-imperialist, though it may have an undercurrent of that, no one seriously believes that all "internationalist" anarchists and Left Communists are pro-Imperialist as such.

[bcbm]

fooled me...

[RedSunRising]

fooled me...

Examples outside of the hipster degenerate trolls of MonkeySmashesHeaven/LLCO?

[bcbm]

thanks for the new user title

[redhotpoker]

Good article from the SWP's weekly The Militant


BY SETH GALINSKY
Demonstrations in Syria for political freedoms and relief from the effects of the world capitalist economic crisis continue to spread despite unrelenting government repression.
More than 100 people were killed by the government’s forces on April 22 alone, according to some reports. The next day thousands joined funeral marches for those killed, and were attacked again.

“The people want the overthrow of the regime,” chanted mourners in Douma, a suburb of Damascus.

“We haven’t been able to reach the graveyard yet because snipers and security forces in uniform are shooting at the funeral procession from rooftops and the streets,” a participant told the Los Angeles Times in a phone interview.

A video clip from Daraa, a town of 75,000 where the protests against the regime began in mid-March, shows unarmed demonstrators throwing rocks at tanks sent to crush the rebellion along with 3,000 soldiers.

According to Al Jazeera, the regime’s forces are going door-to-door in Daraa and Douma, searching homes and arresting residents.

On April 19 President Bashar al-Assad lifted the country’s state of emergency laws to give the impression that he was making democratic concessions to the protest movement. But the repression continues unabated and other repressive laws remain in effect.

Members of some 15 different military and police forces are immune from prosecution. Opposing the ruling Baath party is essentially illegal. Membership in the Muslim Brotherhood, for example, is punishable by death.

Assad and the Baath party drape themselves in the mantle of anti-imperialism and resistance to the Israeli government’s oppression of the Palestinian people. The reality is quite different, however. Syrian troops participated in the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 1991, and Assad has clamped down on Palestinian groups in Syria.

The Syrian ruler and his supporters charge that the demonstrators are “dupes” of a “great conspiracy” that includes both al-Qaeda and the Israeli government.

Assad’s regime is based on a narrow layer of capitalist families, mostly from the Alawite minority, a branch of Shiite Islam, that makes up about 11 percent of the population. Most Syrians are Sunni Muslims. Assad also has supporters among the Christian minority and a layer of Sunni merchants.

While many of the antigovernment protests have taken place in predominantly Sunni areas like Daraa, others have spread to cities with large Alawite populations, including the port cities of Latakia, Tartus, and Baniyas.

“We’re not from the Muslim Brotherhood and we’re not salafists,” chanted protesters in Homs, referring to an Islamist sect with ties to Osama bin Laden. “We want freedom.” There have also been demonstrations in the mostly Kurdish city of Qamishli in northern Syria.

When the protests first began, U.S. president Barack Obama called on both the Syrian government and protesters to “avoid violence.” He said that Assad should “advance a meaningful reform agenda.” As the protests continued, Obama hardened his stance. On April 22 Obama charged that the Syrian regime was seeking “Iranian assistance” and he threatened to impose economic sanctions.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

We should support Assad. The whole "rebellion" was obviously cooked up by CNN, the Soros Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,(when their not busy funding NPR) the Carnegie Endowment, and the Ford Foundation with the cooperation of Obama and Sarkozy. Why do you think Petreaus was made CIA chief?

This whole "rebellion" has Gene Sharp written all over it. I only hope Assad can brutally crush this filth before they get any further.



We must rally around Assad and hope he mercilessly crushes this imperialist sponsored rebellion!

[greenwarbler]

this is more and more resembling the buildup to World War I, except perhaps more streamlined..

[redhotpoker]

We should support Assad. The whole "rebellion" was obviously cooked up by CNN, the Soros Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,(when their not busy funding NPR) the Carnegie Endowment, and the Ford Foundation with the cooperation of Obama and Sarkozy. Why do you think Petreaus was made CIA chief?

This whole "rebellion" has Gene Sharp written all over it. I only hope Assad can brutally crush this filth before they get any further.



We must rally around Assad and hope he mercilessly crushes this imperialist sponsored rebellion!

Even if this were true, there is a deference between opposing covert imperialist intervention and supporting Assad.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Even if this were true, there is a deference between opposing covert imperialist intervention and supporting Assad.

Okay, to be honest that was a bit of a troll post. I was being sarcastic. I do
not support Assad in any way. He is a brutal thug just like his father and the revolt is fully justified. I feel the same way about the rebellion against Qaddaffi. Even though this rebellion has been hijacked by US imperialism the anti-Qaddaffi rebellion does have radical working class layers.

As far as the Syrian revolution goes, it was home grown, a result of decades of oppression. The US undoubtedly will attempt to co-opt and derail this but NO support should be given to Assad.I was spoofing a bit on those on the left who will rush to the defense of Assad, just as they do Qaddaffi.

No to Assad and Qaddaffi,no to imperialist intervention.

[Chambered Word]

inb4 Lenina Rosenweg gets compared to Christopher Hitchens

[Devrim]

Okay, to be honest that was a bit of a troll post. I was being sarcastic.


The problem with parody is that people often don't get it.

Devrim

[agnixie]

Even if this were true, there is a deference between opposing covert imperialist intervention and supporting Assad.

I swear if the US was to block the foreign assets of the emir of Bahrein, some of you would be cheering for the monarchy on the sidelines as vulgar anti-imperialism while reminding us which western bogeyman they supposedly belonged to.

And just in case some need to be reminded - I'm against NATO intervention by principle. I just find the handwringing disgusting.

[Luís Henrique]

I read an article from a newspaper in my city here in Brasil. It has an interview with a Syrian descendant that lives here in my city and goes once a yer to Syria. The tradesman Namer Assad, says that the international reporters that cover the "war" are not trustable because they only defend politicians tied to Israel and the USA. This happens due to Syria's alliance with Iran and the struggle to maintain a good relationship with Israel.
Assad also says that his brother ( who lives in Syria ) talked to him on the phone and said that the protests are iniciated by FOREIGNERS. And the number of people who participate these protests arent half as much as said by the press.
He also says “O povo sírio está 95% com Bashar Assad", The syrian people are 95% with Bashar Assad. And that if that wasnt true, he would have ALREADY FALLEN.
My state's council, Ab**do Dib Abage, said the crysis is moved by external political and economic interests.

The forum doesnt permit me to post links, so if you wanna see the article go to
gazetadopovodotcomdotbr and go all the way down and look for a pic with a Syrian flag, its in portuguese, so most of you wont understand a word

Peace

OK, let me guess... was this newspaper, perhaps, Hora do Povo?

Luís Henrique

[RadioRaheem84]

inb4 Lenina Rosenweg gets compared to Christopher Hitchens

It's OK, I know it's a matter of principle now.

I finally see the ideal in supporting reactionary hijacked opposition movements.

It all makes sense.



How's that for parody?

[RadioRaheem84]

I feel the same way about the rebellion against Qaddaffi. Even though this rebellion has been hijacked by US imperialism the anti-Qaddaffi rebellion does have radical working class layers.


So just because the rebellion has working class layers, some where hidden beneath a huge reactionary cake, and is now being aided by NATO and Western politicians, it's a more rational position to support them being anti-imperialist?

Again, this is really all about the mis-characterization of the anti-imperialist movement as being in full lock step support of the Gaddafi regime and what it stands for.

I don't remember the CCP during WWII supporting Chiang Kai Shek and bowing down to him and what he stood for.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

So just because the rebellion has working class layers, some where hidden beneath a huge reactionary cake, and is now being aided by NATO and Western politicians, it's a more rational position to support them being anti-imperialist?

Again, this is really all about the mis-characterization of the anti-imperialist movement as being in full lock step support of the Gaddafi regime and what it stands for.

I don't remember the CCP during WWII supporting Chiang Kai Shek and bowing down to him and what he stood for.

No, whatever progressive elements of the rebellion exist are certainly NOT being aided by the NATO coalition, that's the problem.True anti-imperialimt does not consist either of defending anyone whom the US opposes or dismissing rebellions against those the US opposes on the grounds that they have been contaminated by imperialism.There are no pure movements ever.

Supposing Qaddaffi is overthrown somehow in the near future. Okay, NATO/US will set up a new comprador state. Many of the original rebels, sick of Qaddaffi's tyranny, aren't going to be happy w/a pro-Western puppet regime. People here forget that originally there was a strong anti-interventionist mood among the rebels, which rapidly became marginalized. What do we now say to the now disillussioned rebels, "sorry dude, you worked for imperialism, no hope for you ever".

We have to, to use a much abused term, think dialectically, there are shades of grey.

BTW The CCP certainly did ally w/the Guomindang. That was their tragic mistake.There also was a later alliance, on paper, during WWII. Another big mistake.

Also..Christopher Hitchens? Moi?