National Bolshevism?

[Yuppie Grinder]

It seems pretty fucked up. Are there any real differences between National Bolshevism and Nazism?

[Commissar Rykov]

National Bolshevism is historically a German Movement that wished to replicate the NEP and the success of the Bolsheviks in Russia. It was sparked by German Socialists and intellectuals like Ernst Junger and Ernst Niekisch. The Modern movement in Russia uses National Socialist imagery to garner attention it is largely just a movement for arts students to protest against Putin.

[thriller]

From what I've seen/read it seems to be quite anti-semtic, nationalistic and promotes Stalin the way the Nazi's portrayed Hitler.

[Red Future]

National Bolshevism is historically a German Movement that wished to replicate the NEP and the success of the Bolsheviks in Russia. It was sparked by German Socialists and intellectuals like Ernst Junger and Ernst Niekisch. The Modern movement in Russia uses National Socialist imagery to garner attention it is largely just a movement for arts students to protest against Putin.

I thought it had some base among the "middle class anti Putin rebels" with its own following of thugs and boneheads too.

[Tim Finnegan]

If I understand it, modern National Bolshevism is a collision of neo-(or should that be "pseudo-"?)Stalinism and neo-Nazism; essentially, an attempt to piggyback on the cache that the Stalinists has in some segments of the population, while also adopting the pseudo-radical image of the white nationalists and neo-Nazis. Like Commissar Rykov said, it mostly seems to be popular among students, presumably because it brings together the right sort of imagery and ideological tropes to appeal to a certain segment of the Russia petty bourgeoisie which likes to pose its reactionaryism as revolutionary.

What would be interesting, I think, is to find out how many young NatBols are the children of liberals, and how many are the children of Zyuganovite Communists. That would tell you something about the exact nature of its posturing.

[chegitz guevara]

Life imitates Montey Python.

[Rooster]

I think national bolshevism probably stems from the Russian nationalism and chauvinism that rose up during Stalin's period in power. When people say that the USSR was brought up through bolshevism and SiOC to be a major industrial and world power, it kind of feeds into the idea of that. I do not know what sort of things natbols are asking for. I don't know if it's for a corporatist state or anything other related to Nazism.

[Android]

It is not clear whether the OP is referring to National Bolshevism as it exists in its contemporary form in Russia or the historical political trend that existed in Germany in the 1920s, which was a much more significant phenomenon and not really comparable at all.

There was a useful thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/original-german-national-t136583/index.html?t=136583) a whole back that covered more the historical trend in Germany. The user Rjevan posts on that thread were very insightful if my memory is correct.

[Commissar Rykov]

I think national bolshevism probably stems from the Russian nationalism and chauvinism that rose up during Stalin's period in power. When people say that the USSR was brought up through bolshevism and SiOC to be a major industrial and world power, it kind of feeds into the idea of that. I do not know what sort of things natbols are asking for. I don't know if it's for a corporatist state or anything other related to Nazism.
Modern NazBols support a corporatist state and people like Aleksandr Dugin have dubbed it a fascist movement as was stated in his essay about National Bolshevism which he labelled Fascism: Red and Borderless.


I thought it had some base among the "middle class anti Putin rebels" with its own following of thugs and boneheads too.
It has become quite anti-Semitic in Russia and I am not sure exactly why. At this point the NazBols have done little to separate themselves from Boneheads but as I stated earlier the NazBols are largely just a Student Movement whose only real complaint is they don't like Putin and that has more to do with Putin's stance on Stalin as far as I can tell. The current NazBol movement is a far cry from what it originally started as.

[hatzel]

I think national bolshevism probably stems from the Russian nationalism and chauvinism that rose up during Stalin's period in power.

Pretty much this. There are plenty of Russian nationalists who look back on that era fondly. C'mon, that was when they won the Great Patriotic War, when there were still a serious force to be reckoned with. It's hardly surprising that Russian nationalists would look back on that era as something to be recreated. Hence the appeal of National Bolshevism...


It has become quite anti-Semitic in Russia and I am not sure exactly why.

You said yourself that it was developed in Germany by Ernst Niekisch. An antisemite. Considering his critique of Nazism was its not being socialist enough, rather than its being hardcore racist, we can't be surprised if Russian NatBolism would be a little bit racist...

[Commissar Rykov]

You said yourself that it was developed in Germany by Ernst Niekisch. An antisemite. Considering his critique of Nazism was its not being socialist enough, rather than its being hardcore racist, we can't be surprised if Russian NatBolism would be a little bit racist...
Aye but when National Bolshevism initially started up in Russia it was not anti-Semitic it has since developed so during its current incarnation.

[Dr Mindbender]

My understanding is that National Bolshevism is simply class concious national socialism.

(hatred on both the class and race fronts).

[Queercommie Girl]

There is also Chinese "national bolshevism" similar to Russian "national bolshevism", based on the interpretation of Mao as primarily a nationalist figure rather than a socialist.

The difference is that Chinese "national bolshevism" is just simply national chauvinist in the classical sense, it's not racist, and it's certainly not "semi-Nazi" or anti-Semitic. China is not an European nation after all, and anti-Semitism makes absolutely no sense in the Chinese cultural and historical context what-so-ever.

[Tim Finnegan]

Oh! And another weird thing about the NatBols is that they have a thing about recruiting attractive young women (often with a sort of punky look, which seems to confirm what CR said about arts students) and publishing pictures of them looking pouty (http://nbp-info.ru/new/photo/girls/) as... Would you call it propaganda? Well, bait for desperate young men, at any rate. Can't say how effective it is as a tactic, but it certainly suggests that their fondness for the Bolsheviks has never quite lead them to picking up anything by Kollontai...

[Red Commissar]

We've discussed this before and I think one thread in particular had some good exploration of them:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/national-bolshevismi-t131512

Pay attention to Rjevan posts, in particular the first one (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1699463&postcount=10) to get an idea of them. He also provides links to earlier discussions. I'll quote what he posted from an earlier thread:


National Bolshevism was developed in the 1920s in both Germany and Russia at the same time. In Germany main National Bolsheviks were Ernst Niekisch and Karlo Otto Paetel, strong nationalists and Prussia admireres who thought that not only the working class but the whole population of a country are the revolutionary forces who should overthrow the current system and build a social, Marxist-like society but also based on nationalism and militarism [as well as on bourgeois views]. They further wanted an alliance with the USSR and the isolation of Germany from the west. Niekisch dreamed of a socialist Prussian empire but he critizised Hitler heavily and called him "the German doom" in one of his books.

He was imprisoned and tortured by the Nazis but later saved by the Red Army.
Paetel also vehemently critizised the NSDAP and had to go into exile where he published his theories together with various nationalist and socialist groups.

In Russia Nikolai Ustralinov, a militant nationalist who fought for the Whites in the civil war, got strongly impressed by the achievements of the Bolsheviks later and drew the conclusion that Bolshevism together with nationalism would be the best system. He was executed for counter-revolutionary activity in 1937.

Today the most important National Bolshevik movement are the Russian "Nazbol", led by Edward Limonov, an author and ex-emigrant who returned to the USSR during Gorbachev's perestroika and glasnost.

These fellows are a strange mixture of anti-Hitler fascists and disappointed socialists, the Nazbol are a youth movement and aim at disappointed youths. They are pretty confused, in the one moment they praise the achievements of fascism and in the next they walk along communist youth groups and demonstrate against "fascist Putin" and for "true democracy". They want to combine nationalism with communism and "the positive things from the right with the positive things from the left". The sad thing is that they obviously attract some genuine leftists, who see the Nazbols as the only real vanguard, since the Nazbols are very active, there's nearly no political demonstartion in Russia without surprisingly many militant Nazbols who are known for spectacular actions like occupying a city hall during one of Putin's visits, showing banners with "The Czar won't come through!".

There are also two kinds of Nazbols, the hardcore right-wing National Bolshevik Front (NBF, smaller than the NBP), built after Alexander Dugin, who founded the NBP together with Limonov left the NBP and claimed that Linonov "sold us out to the Zionists" and Limonov's National Bolshevik Party (NBP, officially banned, but still more active than ever), wannabe "leftists", who work together with Kasparov's opposition party and communist groups. But still, they are no communists, even though the Russian media presents them like that sometimes.

And to end,

Program of the NazBols

http://nbp-info.ru/new/partia/programm.html



Translated roughly (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1152792&postcount=18):

THE PROGRAM OF THE NATIONAL BOLSHEVIK PARTY (1994)

ESSENCE OF THE IDEOLOGY
1. The essence of National Bolshevism - incinerating hate for the
anti-human system of the trinity of liberalism/democracy/capitalism.
The persona of revolt, the National Bolshevik sees his mission in the
destruction of the SYSTEM to the foundation. On the ideals of
spiritual courage, social and national justice will be built a
traditional hierarchical society.

ENEMIES
2. External enemies of National Bolshevism: The Big Satan - USA
and monopolists of Europe, United in NATO and the UN. Internal
enemies: the class of "sports jackets" - boyar bureaucrats,
robber "new" Russians, the cosmopolitan intelligentsia.

GOAL
3. The global goal of National-Bolshevism is the creation of an
empire from Vladivostok to Gibraltor on the basis of Russian
civilization. The goal will be achieved in four stages:
a) thechanging of the Russian Federation into the national state of Russia
by means of revolution,
b) the annexation of the territories of the former Soviet republics that are populated by Russians,
c) A coming together around the Russian Eurasian peoples of the former USSR,
d) the creation of a gigantic continental Empire.

THE STATE
4. Upon coming to power, the NBP will conduct a revolutionary, in
its scale, reformation in Russia, will build a TOTAL STATE, the
rights of the individual will take a back seat to the rights of the
nation. Inside the country there will be established iron Russian
order, a climate of discipline, militarism, and the love of labor.

5. The Parliament of Russia will consist of two chambers: the
Chamber of Deputies (450 seats) will be elected and the legislative
chamber; the Chamber of Representatives (900 seats), will be the
non-elected consultative chamber. Representatives of the People
will be appointed to the second chamber by the Peoples'
recommendation; there will be represented professions, ages, social
and religious authorities. The head of the government will rely on
the Chamber of Representatives, receiving recommendations from it.

6. Russia will be divided into strategic districts that will be
ruled from the center. National republics and regions will be
abolished, and their "presidents" dispersed.

GEOPOLITICAL
7. We will denounce the Byelovyezhsky Treaty and, as a result, the
borders of Russia will be reviewed. We will unite all Russians in
one state. The territories broken away from our "republic" where
the Russian population is over 50% will be annexed to Russia by
means of local referendums that will be assisted by Russia (Crimea,
northern Kazakhstan, Narvsky r-n, etc.). The desire by national
minorities for separatism will by mercilessly crushed.

8. In external politics we will turn our back on the United States
and look to Asia. On the continent there is the possibility of
friendship with Germany, Iran, India, and Japan.

9. We will terminate all treaties with the West. First and
foremost, we will send the International Monetary Fund treaty to
hell. We will refuse to pay credits and arrest all foreign
investment in Russia. We will throw out the dollar under a back
leg, stop the aggressive invasion of foreign goods and their low
life mass culture, lower a protective iron curtain on our borders.
Entry into the world market economy killed the economy of Russia.
It is harmful to us. Russia has everything.

ECONOMY
10. Russian Socialism will be created, an economic system oriented
on the welfare of the majority of the population. The economy will
be built on the principle of progressive nationalization. If 5
people work at an enterprise it is able to be private, 55 - it
should be a collective, 555 - it is in the possession of the region,
5,555 - it belongs to the state. During the interim period the NBP
will establish an economic dictatorship.

11. Soldiers, people on a budget, pensioners, the entire lower paid
layer of the population will be completely exempt from paying
taxes. Housing will be gratuitously given over to the people
living there. Empty apartments will be given to the veterans of
Chechnya and Afghanistan, to families with many children and young
families. We will establish a level of salaries not lower than the
minimum needed to live, the cost of apartments and utilities will be
frozen, We will impose firmly fixed prices on the basic food
products: bread, potatoes, butter, groats, milk and meat.

12. Land will only belong to the State, that is to everyone.
Income from its leasing will go into the State Budget. The State
will encourage large specialized facilities based on Collective and
State Farms and any facility of a new type that would benefit the
people.

13. The State will have the exclusive right to export and sell raw
materials, electro-energy, precious metals, gas, oil, and arms.
Gold will be produced exclusively by the State. The arms
manufacturing industry will also belong to the State.

14. The goal of the economic reforms of the NBL will be the
creation of the full economic independence of Russia.

CULTURE, SCIENCE, FREEDOMS
15. The NBP firmly believes that culture should grow like a wild
tree. We don't intend to prune the tree. Full freedom, "Do what
you wish" will be the one rule.

16. All fundamental science that is vital to our nation will have
priority funding from the State Budget. We will create heavenly
conditions for scientists and inventors.

17. The freedom of the nation from the aggression of capitalism is
the trade off of the freedom of individualism. The NBP is for
contemporary modernization, vanguard, but we are extreme opponents
of forcibly tying us to Western values and overseas "master-
teachers."

PUNISHMENTS
18. We will try and punish those guilty of crimes against the
State, that were committed by the highest ranking government
officials from January 1, 1986.

19. We will confiscate all income and savings of those who caused
Russia economic damage by having fooled and manipulated their fellow
citizens from January 1, 1986.

20. Inside the State Security System a special section will be
formed for the return of Russian capital flowing abroad. The
thieves will be seized there and will be forced to return all that
was stolen. The heads of criminal Funds, banks, and companies will
be given over to the concern of the investors.

21. We will annihilate the criminal world. Its best
representatives will go over to the service of the nation and
State. The rest will be destroyed by military means.

22. Former bureaucrats of the CPSS right up to the level of
Secretaries of the savkomovs will be forbidden to be involved in
political and commercial operations.

THE RANKS
23. The NBP is neither a left or right wing party, but a national
party of the Russian people. Being Russian is not determined by
blood or by religious conviction. HE WHO CONSIDERS THE RUSSIAN
LANGUAGE HIS, THE HISTORY OF RUSSIA HIS HISTORY, WHO SPILLS AND IS
PREPARED TO SPILL HIS AND FOREIGN BLOOD IN THE NAME OF RUSSIA, AND
ONLY FOR RUSSIA'S SAKE, AND DOES NOT THINK OF ANOTHER NATION AS HIS
MOTHERLAND, IS RUSSIAN.

24. The NBP in its activities relies exclusively on the actively
participating minority. Above all on the socially disaffected
youth, country people, "businessmen", workers, soldiers, students,
marginals, police officers. Russia will always belong to us.

SLOGAN, GREETING, BANNER
25. The slogan is: "Russia is all - everything else is nothing!"
The greeting is: A closed fist thrown forward and then to the side
while saying: "Yes, Death!" The banner is red with a white circle
in the middle, in the circle a black hammer and sickle. The Party
symbol is the image of a hand grenade, "limonka" (little lemon -
Russian slang for hand grenade. - Mikhail)
1994

This seems to be from before their major "split" but I assume that's the bile both claim to embody. I'm also under the impression that their old banner was apparently banned and they have to use a black one instead of red. Batshit insane imo, it's a shame they manage to attract self styled "leftist" youth though. Note in the program there is no mention of workers (save the bit at the end) or class struggle- simply state fetishizing and nationalism. They've managed to harness the real issues with neo-liberalism and the "free-market" to their own ends and thus pull some youth with them.

[Queercommie Girl]

Oh! And another weird thing about the NatBols is that they have a thing about recruiting attractive young women (often with a sort of punky look, which seems to confirm what CR said about arts students) and publishing pictures of them looking pouty (http://nbp-info.ru/new/photo/girls/) as... Would you call it propaganda? Well, bait for desperate young men, at any rate. Can't say how effective it is as a tactic, but it certainly suggests that their fondness for the Bolsheviks has never quite lead them to picking up anything by Kollontai...

We Chinese nazbol women can beat those in terms of attractiveness any time...:glare:

(joke)

More seriously, I think you have a point, but you shouldn't make such generalisations about "art students". (Not that I'm an art student by any means, I don't actually know much about art, I majored in History and Philosophy of Science)

I mean it's one thing to say that it's wrong for nazbols to use such propaganda, but it's quite another to say that every woman who dresses like that must be a nazbol...

Ever studied logic? It's like a sets problem. "Nazbol using sexist propaganda" is the sub-set of "punky-looking female art students", not the other way around.

[Tim Finnegan]

We Chinese nazbol women can beat those in terms of attractiveness any time...:glare:

(joke)
Heh, well, I suppose I'll take your word on that one. Last thing we need is a tendency war about this. :laugh:


More seriously, I think you have a point, but you shouldn't make such generalisations about "art students". (Not that I'm an art student by any means, I don't actually know much about art, I majored in History and Philosophy of Science)Is there perhaps a bit of miscommunication here? I meant "arts students" in the sense of those studying subjects traditionally classed as the "liberal arts"- the humanities, social sciences, and so forth- as opposed to science, engineering, and so forth. CR's observation seemed to be suggesting that this represented a significant source of NatBol youth membership,- such students have a history of adopting, or at least producing a prominent minority which adopts vocal anti-establishment politics, whatever that may mean in a given time and place. If wonder if he'd be able to clarify?

Anyway, my suggestion was that this seemed to born out by the very "studenty", for want of a better word, appearance of the women- both in the sense of that they can possibly be assumed to represent a prominent part of the membership (although you address this below), and in the sense that they represent the sort of cultural milieu inhabited by those young men that the movement seems to be trying to attract.


I mean it's one thing to say that it's wrong for nazbols to use such propaganda, but it's quite another to say that every woman who dresses like that must be a nazbol...

Ever studied logic? It's like a sets problem. "Nazbol using sexist propaganda" is the sub-set of "punky-looking female art students", not the other way around.Fair point, but in my defence I assumed that the women in the link were themselves NatBols. The ones decked out in NatBol iconography and hanging around with flags presumably are- unless there's some Russian equivalent of Suicide Girls that likes to flirt with risqué political imagery- but I suppose it may be overly presumptuous to say that of all of them.

And, certainly, I never meant to suggest that wearing punky attire in Russia applies NatBol sympathies. I'm sure that left-wing groups like Antifa hold the sympathies of far many more Russian punks than any posturing quasi-fascists.

[Savage]

BTW, have there ever been any natbols on revleft?

[SacRedMan]

Great, another ideoligy that's going to rape the basics of Marxism-communsim.

[Commissar Rykov]

BTW, have there ever been any natbols on revleft?

Doubtful I would imagine NazBols would find more in common with fascists, Strasserists and the like.