fuck hollywood

[Fawkes]

eh, maybe not, but either way, I've been interested in learning about some non-western storytelling traditions. Anybody have any suggestions/info on some non-western film movements? In other words, maybe some stuff that doesn't use three-act structures, a single protagonist, a protagonist/antagonist dichotomy, etc. Not only formally speaking though, also stuff that just comes from a totally different cultural perspective than that found in the U.S. I'm particularly interested in movies made either in places or by people from places that as an American I would not be immediately familiar with (i.e. stuff other than the U.S. and Western European + Russian filmmaking traditions). Movies cost a shitload to make so I wouldn't be surprised to discover that there isn't a particularly strong cinematic tradition in Ethiopa or Guatemala, but surprise me :cool:

Stuff from Europe and even the U.S. that comes from a different cultural perspective than what someone like me would be used to is definitely welcome also.

theatre and literature suggestions would be cool too, but I'm mostly looking for film stuff right now

[El Chuncho]

'Onibaba', 'Kaidan' and 'Kaidan Yuki Joro'. All based on horror folklore from Japan.

'Kaidan' (anthology) by Kobayashi Masaki (a leftist): http://stagevu.com/video/ldqjxuuhhqsa

'Onibaba' by Shindo Kaneto: http://stagevu.com/video/xblhgayvqhxi

'Kaidan Yuki Joro' (based on the story also used in Kaidan) by Tanaka Tokuzo: http://stagevu.com/video/pdsawzfbmlkr

[Arlekino]

Soviets have wonderful film collections I posted previously you can find them with English subtitles.

[El Chuncho]

Soviets have wonderful film collections I posted previously you can find them with English subtitles.

'White Sun of The Desert' (dubbed, still enjoyable): http://stagevu.com/video/wifgpivhgmhe

'At Home With Strangers' (subtitled): http://stagevu.com/video/ebjedeedpibm

[progressive_lefty]

I personally believe Hollywood has contributed a lot to Western racial stereotypes of Blacks, Asians, Arabs.. It is also shaped around the WASP, most films have a starring role featuring someone that is white, blonde and has blue eyes - and the 'superiority' of these features. I find Hollywood to be repulsive, I think a lot of racial disharmony wouldn't have existed if it weren't for so many offensive portrayals of other cultures. The saddest thing, is that it still exists today. For many ethnic minorities, they don't have much option in playing negative portrayals of their race.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

It is hard, I have to admit. Because, when first thinking about it you don't think the western storytelling tradition, as you beautifully put it, is so universal as it actually is.

I suppose something like Sans Soleil by Chris Marker would fit. Not a conventional narrative and without many characters at all.

I would also suggest Last Year at Marienbad and Slacker.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I personally believe Hollywood has contributed a lot to Western racial stereotypes of Blacks, Asians, Arabs.. It is also shaped around the WASP, most films have a starring role featuring someone that is white, blonde and has blue eyes - and the 'superiority' of these features. I find Hollywood to be repulsive, I think a lot of racial disharmony wouldn't have existed if it weren't for so many offensive portrayals of other cultures. The saddest thing, is that it still exists today. For many ethnic minorities, they don't have much option in playing negative portrayals of their race.

There were also a lot of progressive directors working within Hollywood as well though.

John Ford for example. Time magazine editor wrote that his adaptation of The Grapes of Wrath was left wing propaganda and when there was a campaign under McCarthyism against the director Mankiewicz claiming him to be a Communist sympathiser Ford spoke out against the investigator Cecil De Mille. Not the best example as he went on to support the Vietnam war but there were others, and Ford's films definitely were to a large extent sympathetic portrayals of poor people. His 1950 western Wagon master was all about solidarity and featured a band of indians working together with white people.

[Arlekino]

The down here are quite
A Railway Station for two (not political but good to see Breznevs' era working class life)
Meeting place should not be changed
17 Moments of the Spring ( good story about secret agent i(:)2nd world war)

[Tommy4ever]

Some Soviet films are truly amazing.

Check out films by the directors Tarkovsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Tarkovsky) and Eisenstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Eisenstein). They are probably two of the greatest film makers of the 20th century.

[Arlekino]

Yes they are Tommy4ever. I would highly recommend to all forum film lovers try to watch Breznevs times films, it would be easy to understand working class lives and of course corruptions which Soviets don't afraid to show in films. :):)

[Dr Mindbender]

I wouldve thought Indian film and 'Bollywood' wouldve been the obvious answer to this thread.

Most of the stuff that comes from it though seems to be romantic musicals. Not really my bag.

I have a fantastic Korean movie on dvd called 'Taegukgi: The brotherhood of War ' which is definitely worth a look if you can get it. The end had me in tears. Despite being a south korean production its not overly anti DPRK.

[brigadista]

any films by ousmane sembene

[Ocean Seal]

I personally believe Hollywood has contributed a lot to Western racial stereotypes of Blacks, Asians, Arabs.. It is also shaped around the WASP, most films have a starring role featuring someone that is white, blonde and has blue eyes - and the 'superiority' of these features. I find Hollywood to be repulsive, I think a lot of racial disharmony wouldn't have existed if it weren't for so many offensive portrayals of other cultures. The saddest thing, is that it still exists today. For many ethnic minorities, they don't have much option in playing negative portrayals of their race.

k6MlwT1lBk0

[ZeroNowhere]

In other words, maybe some stuff that doesn't use three-act structures, a single protagonist, a protagonist/antagonist dichotomy, etc. Not only formally speaking though, also stuff that just comes from a totally different cultural perspective than that found in the U.S.You may be interested in Satyajit Ray's 'Pather Panchali', an Indian film centred around an Indian village, with a juxtaposition of great portrayals of nature's beauty and a very human portrayal of the various people within it. It's the first part of a trilogy, but the first is in this case probably also the best part of it; in addition, I feel that the second film, for example, would have been a lot stronger if it were a separate film, as it approaches some things in a completely different way to the first film, though by itself it's still a good film. 'Pather Panchali' doesn't really include a protagonist as such, nor a protagonist/antagonist dichotomy; more or less all of the characters are well-rounded, and Apu only starts to evolve into something of a protagonist role in the next couple of films. If you like 'Pather Panchali', you should probably like most of Ray's other output. Of course, Ray is fairly well-known, so you may already be aware of his films.

You may also be interested in the somewhat more obscure Ritwik Ghatak, in the same vein. He did have socialist sympathies, which does show occasionally, if that helps.


Most of the stuff that comes from it though seems to be romantic musicals. Not really my bag.Oh dear, Bollywood. Yes, they seem to have become good at churning out awful, generic romances, and really I've had to watch far more than anybody should in a lifetime during my childhood in India. I'm also not sure that there's generally anything particularly 'Indian' about them other than the personnel; if you swapped the cast with a bunch of Westerners, and made them in English, you would basically have... 'High School Musical'. Huh.

[praxis1966]

He's definitely a Western European, but as a surrealist I think Luis Buñuel meets just about all the other criteria. Pretty much anything by him is good, but my favorites are La charme discret de la bourgeoisie (Eng: The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie) and Le fantôme de la liberté (Eng: The Phantom of Liberty). Both of them are completely bizarre, as one would expect, and fairly completely leftist. Further, while there's conflict in his films, there's generally not one likeable character so the protagonist/antagonist labels don't really apply.

Beyond that, as has been mentioned, East Asian cinema has a lot to offer. It's pretty damned anti-Japanese (and anti-American for that matter) and I dunno if that sort of thing bothers you, but more recently I found Guizi lai le (Eng Devils on the Doorstep, Jiang, 2002) to be pretty damned good. It deals with the Japanese occupation of China during World War II with noirish cinematography, pitch dark humor, and a healthy dose of moral ambiguity. Good shit, IMO.

[Communist]

'Onibaba' by Shindo Kaneto
"Onibaba" is awesome. The UK dvd has a commentary by Shindo, wish the US Criterion (the disc I bought) had it.
But my favorite Japanese director is definitely Kurosawa; just came off a run of watching all 30 of his films again. "Dodes'ka-den" in particular is a way underrated Kurosawa masterpiece.

[praxis1966]

But my favorite Japanese director is definitely Kurosawa; just came off a run of watching all 30 of his films again. "Dodes'ka-den" in particular is a way underrated Kurosawa masterpiece.

Word. If I could rep this post 10 times I would. Rashōmon, FTW!

[x359594]

Kevin Brownlow wrote a good history of American cinema before and during the rise of the Hollywood studio system called Behind the Mask of Innocence, and several of these "outside the system" movies still exist.

Also of tremendous interest are the "race" movie made by African-American film makers like Spencer Williams and Oscar Michaux. These movies defy the Hollywood representational codes, and it's a good way of learning just how conditioned we are by those codes that at first sight the "race" movies seem inept (or avant garde.) The same is true of the golden age of Japanese cinema, particularly the films of Mizoguchi Kenji and Ozu Yasujiro. (Incidentally, Mizoguchi's younger brother was a member of the clandestine Japan Communist Party, and Mizoguchi himself was an adviser to the Pro Kino Film Group, a leftist documentary and newsreel production team.)

Then there's the independent cinema of the 1920s and on, particularly the avant garde cinema of the 1950s and 1960s as well as documentaries by Richard Leacock and D. A. Pennebaker, Shirley Clarke, and the Meisal Brothers.

[berlitz23]

I Would Recommend these films:

Padatik
Koshikei

I know Godard might be devisive and A "Western" director anchored within a Eurocentric vantage point, yet I highly recommend his cinema. His employment of Brechtian technique and investigation into micropolitics and third world politics like
Ici Et Ailleurs are riveting exposition into the nature of First World and Third World Perspectivism.

[Philosopher Jay]

I can't go alone with Ford being very progressive. He more or less rode the political waves and made "Grapes of Wrath" when the communist red tide was sweeping the country in the Great Depression. In the 1940's and 1950's, he made mostly pro-war movies.
"The Searchers" is the most racist Western ever made and even his masterpiece, "Stagecoach" is marred by treating Native Americans as "injuns" and "blood thirsty savages" for its last 30 minutes. He was not doctrinaire and certainly felt sympathy for poor people, but generally his films are relatively conservative and often just dumb and overrated, the mess called "Liberty Valence" is a good example.

For a consistently progressive director, I would give William Wyler the prize. "Dead End," (links poverty to crime) "The Little Foxes," (capitalist corruption) "The Best Years of Our Lives," (celebrates the defeat of fascism and opposes the Cold War) and the "Children's Hour" (first sympathetic portrayal of a lesbian (or near lesbian) couple in movies) are humanistic, intelligent and progressive films.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Themroc (1973)

[brigadista]

Santa Sangre