Standing Army?

[psgchisolm]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/existence-police-and-t153727/index.html?t=153727

In reference to this thread. Alot of you say you discourage people from joining the military. But yet you want to keep a standing army. So how would you get people into that standing army if you discourage them all?

[Decolonize The Left]

Well, standing army =/= imperialist army.

So it's not that "the army" (i.e. a militarized group of citizens) is bad in itself, it's what it's used for. That should be simple enough.

- August

[Sadena Meti]

Guerrilla training camps in the Ozark and Ouachita National Forests. :)

[psgchisolm]

Well, standing army =/= imperialist army.

So it's not that "the army" (i.e. a militarized group of citizens) is bad in itself, it's what it's used for. That should be simple enough.

- AugustI think I stated this in the imperialism thread.


I don't The military is the product of the politics. Used whenever it betters them. The military is just a tool. Here.
Yet hindsight said it best.


O fuck...this thread goes on to page 7. Skipping the last three pages.

I'd like to point out some major hypocracy here.

We restrict people for joining the military because its imperialism. I am not sure if the joining was the actual problem or the preceived defending of the involvement or glorification....but many users indeed seem to think joining the army is open support for imperialism.

Yet...we do not pounce the same way and allow users who defend and glorify imperialist actions by so called supposed socialist states to go unrestricted or uninfracted.

This is odd....and should be some serious food for thought.

Hungary, Prague, Tibet, Afghanistan, Eastern Bloc after the war...no matter how you look at these events and try to spin the politics into some warped excuse for counter revolutionary actions or the protection of communism all on behalve of the working class...this does not in any way shape or form reduce the imperialist nature of these military acts and the fact that military force was used to maintain control over workers.

Yet...this is accepted.

[PhoenixAsh]

No standing army. Standing armies are the tools of the government an its elite. THey are used for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to maintain the monopoly of voilence to direct against its citizens or other citizens.

Its not acceptabel for any "nation" or government to have a standing army.

[psgchisolm]

No standing army. Standing armies are the tools of the government an its elite. THey are used for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to maintain the monopoly of voilence to direct against its citizens or other citizens.

Its not acceptabel for any "nation" or government to have a standing army.


I don't The military is the product of the politics. Used whenever it betters them. The military is just a tool. I swear I called it.

[Sadena Meti]

Consider the citizen army of Switzerland. Compulsory service for a few years (2 I think) and then you take your rifle home with you.

[southernmissfan]

Keep a standing army in a post-revolutionary, communist society? Anyone who advocates that is not a communist.

[727Goon]

I dont get why leftists dont think its socialist to join the army. I'm gonna join up and fight for my nigga Obama, who's obviously a communist. I'm just spreading Obammunism and Islamofascism around the world, it's not imperialism.

[psgchisolm]

I dont get why leftists dont think its socialist to join the army. I'm gonna join up and fight for my nigga Obama, who's obviously a communist. I'm just spreading Obammunism and Islamofascism around the world, it's not imperialism.I think you mean stopping islamofascism.:cool:

[727Goon]

No dude Obamas a secret Muslim and Islamofascism is a key part of the Obammunist platform. His Islam is almost as well kept a secret as his hatred of white people.

[psgchisolm]

No dude Obamas a secret Muslim and Islamofascism is a key part of the Obammunist platform. His Islam is almost as well kept a secret as his hatred of white people.Does he also hate t3h Jews?!?!/!?!!!ONEFUCKINGONE!

[Optiow]

In a post-revolutionary communist society a standing army would be an unnescessary threat to peace and order.

But, when the revolution is actually in motion, with the bourgeois states in full assault, a standing army to defend the revolution is nescessary. it is because of this fact that I believe that socialists should join some type of militia/military/law enforcement in a bourgeois society, so that they will serve as a backbone for the proletarian army when it is formed.

Obviously socialists in the military will try their best to avoid being used by imperialism (including refusing to overseas etc.), but even serving just one or two years as a reservist in a unit near your local military base would adapt you to the rigours of military life and act as a backbone for the revolution.

[psgchisolm]

In a post-revolutionary communist society a standing army would be an unnescessary threat to peace and order.

But, when the revolution is actually in motion, with the bourgeois states in full assault, a standing army to defend the revolution is nescessary. it is because of this fact that I believe that socialists should join some type of militia so that they will serve as a backbone for the proletarian army when it is formed.
I suggest you edit the hell out of your post before someone reports you.

[southernmissfan]

In a post-revolutionary communist society a standing army would be an unnescessary threat to peace and order.

But, when the revolution is actually in motion, with the bourgeois states in full assault, a standing army to defend the revolution is nescessary. it is because of this fact that I believe that socialists should join some type of militia/military/law enforcement in a bourgeois society, so that they will serve as a backbone for the proletarian army when it is formed.

Obviously socialists in the military will try their best to avoid being used by imperialism (including refusing to overseas etc.), but even serving just one or two years as a reservist in a unit near your local military base would adapt you to the rigours of military life and act as a backbone for the revolution.

No. Just....no. This is another post that we see on here relatively often. "Hey guys, let's become a soldier or cop so when the revolution comes we'll be trained lolz!"

Do I need to explain why this is a silly idea?

[Dumb]

No. Just....no. This is another post that we see on here relatively often. "Hey guys, let's become a soldier or cop so when the revolution comes we'll be trained lolz!"

Do I need to explain why this is a silly idea?

Yes. I disagree with this idea, but it still holds a veneer of respectability in my eyes - though I know that it is wrong for me to view it so.

[southernmissfan]

Yes. I disagree with this idea, but it still holds a veneer of respectability in my eyes - though I know that it is wrong for me to view it so.

1. Your time and effort is much better spent actually trying to promote and build revolution than "training" for the hypothetical, future revolution.
2. Regardless of your intent, you will be serving as a guardian of capital and betrayer of your class.
3. The idea appeals to the same type of emotional, gun/military/war fetish that captivates the right-wing militia types as well as the "tankies" and guerilla fetishists. It has more to do with some boyhood fantasy of shooting big guns, retreating to the woods and/or "fighting in the revolution maaan" than actual rational thought.
4. There's a good chance that when you join the military or police you will get absorbed into that subculture and identify with it. So if "the revolution comes", you'll probably fighting us, thus defeating the purpose!

If you want to familiarize yourself with tactics, weapons or whatever, go ahead. It's not my desire or place to criticize one's hobby. But keep in mind, that's what it is--a hobby. At this stage in the game, there's little to any reason "first world" workers should be out in the woods playing soldier. We have plenty of more pressing things to do.

[Lt. Ferret]

when it comes to tactics and strategy, can you fight a well trained professional army during your revolution? yes is the only acceptable answer and i doubt you can say it with full honesty right now.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The question of the "standing army" is complicated precisely because of those two words. What is meant by "standing army"?

Is it in reference to the highly undemocratic officer corps with no work rights?

Is it in reference to professionalized armed forces (since training to drive a tank is different from training to be an expert sniper)?

Is it in reference to all existing military equipment and all their components and related technical expertise? [Such components come from the aviation industry, armaments and munitions industry, automobile industry, electronics industry, shipbuilding industry, telecommunications industry, and especially designated Machine-Building (and maintenance) industries.]

The slogan of "abolition of the standing army" should be scrapped, because no worker-class movement should dare turn swords into plowshares in the face of adversity.

[GallowsBird]

Actually there may be a point, as much as I am loathed to admit it, to joining an army. For instance many Irish Republicans insurgents have been in the British Army where they learnt tactics and strategy from the people they are fighting. It's like Arminius with Rome. He learnt Roman tactics and used them against the Romans as well as creating his own strategies to counter the usual Roman ones.

However it is a dangerous thing to do as this is a Capitalist military and thus they'd make you fight for Capitalist interests even if you are still a Socialist.

[Viet Minh]

when it comes to tactics and strategy, can you fight a well trained professional army during your revolution? yes is the only acceptable answer and i doubt you can say it with full honesty right now.

Me personally I'm a reformist, so I can rise above such things








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[Lt. Ferret]

I see what you did there. :cool:

[Book O'Dead]

In reference to this thread. Alot of you say you discourage people from joining the military. But yet you want to keep a standing army. So how would you get people into that standing army if you discourage them all?
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to plan on how to take over the existing military than to try to create one? Or maybe take it over and reorganize it along proletarian, anti-imperialist principles?

The vast majority of people in present-day military service is proletarian, so it behooves them to take over their units, battalions, regiments, etc., I think.