Stop the War Coalition - antisemitic?

[The Idler]

Is Stop the War Coalition antisemitic? (http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/stop-the-war-holocaust-denier-atzmon-and-anti-semite-hart-unite/)
They seem to be having an event with Gilad Atzmon and Alan Hart and its been posted on Stormfront.

[caramelpence]

Is Stop the War Coalition antisemitic? (http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/stop-the-war-holocaust-denier-atzmon-and-anti-semite-hart-unite/)
They seem to be having an event with Gilad Atzmon and Alan Hart and its been posted on Stormfront.

In Germany and the Netherlands, there have been cases of neo-Nazis, Strasserists, and Third-Positionists of various kinds turning up to anti-Zionist demonstrations, with leftists often rejecting them in order to stop them hijacking a progressive struggle to spread their hate. So no, the fact that people on Stormfront have publicized this does not mean that StWC is anti-semitic.

Fuck off, you sad sectarian shit, and come back when you have something interesting to say.

[Olentzero]

While I agree with the sentiment behind caramelpence's post - really, Idler, we get it; you don't like the International Socialists, now go find something else to do - there is valid grounds for criticizing StW for giving space to Gilad Atzmon. Last July, Socialist Worker published an interview with him that provoked a small storm of controversy; once the editorship realized Atzmon's attitudes towards socialists and Holocaust deniers they pulled the article and published the ensuing debate (http://socialistworker.org/search/node/atzmon).

If the Coalition is aware of Atzmon's highly controversial views, then they're making a tremendous mistake. If not, however, it should be brought up and thoroughly discussed before this event takes place. I honestly feel he's got no place in an event like this, but that's up to the Coalition to decide.

[The Idler]

Its shameful that ad hominem and dismissive attacks are mixed into the response to serious criticism.

[Yazman]

In Germany and the Netherlands, there have been cases of neo-Nazis, Strasserists, and Third-Positionists of various kinds turning up to anti-Zionist demonstrations, with leftists often rejecting them in order to stop them hijacking a progressive struggle to spread their hate. So no, the fact that people on Stormfront have publicized this does not mean that StWC is anti-semitic.

Fuck off, you sad sectarian shit, and come back when you have something interesting to say.

He isn't the one in the wrong here.

Do not flame or insult other users, especially not in the Learning forum. If I see you do it one more time, its your ass.

User has been warned for this post.

[progressive_lefty]

Is Stop the War Coalition antisemitic? (http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/stop-the-war-holocaust-denier-atzmon-and-anti-semite-hart-unite/)
They seem to be having an event with Gilad Atzmon and Alan Hart and its been posted on Stormfront.

It's hard to approach issues like this, because many on this forum are familiar with the term 'anti-semitic' has been used against leftwing critics of the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. And also, the left would never ever give a platform for racists and nazis that try to act in the name of Palestinians against 'Zionazis/ZOG' or whatever other stupid name they use. Their criticism of Israel is based solely on Hitler or neo-nazi talk.

But, like the other posters have noted - the 'Stop the War' coalition definetly seem to be making a mistake in having a Holocaust Denier speak.

[El Chuncho]

Calling people against Israeli occupation anti-semitic is absurd, as Palestinians are a Western-Semitic group. The most annoying thing is when you see the media talking about anti-semitic Muslims! Absurd! :rolleyes:

[Olentzero]

You know, I went and actually looked at the link Idler provided, and followed up on a few other links from there to try to get to the bottom of this. On this page (http://greensengage.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/palestine-solidarity/), which seems to provide a deeper analysis of what's going on, I found this:
There is no mention of this event on Stop The War Coalition’s main site. However, at least one Berkshire Stop The War Coalition member is circulating details, and it is entirely continuous with StWC’s well-documented (http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/walk-away/) record (http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2006/11/14/anti-war-and-dubious-connections/) of anti-Israel activism (http://greensengage.wordpress.com/2009/02/15/workers-liberty-on-understatement-in-the-guardian/) shading – or willingly leaping (http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2011/02/02/lindsey-german-do-you-remember-what-you-said-about-hamas/) – into anti-Jewish activism (http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=1627), including the “We are all Hizbullah (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/aug/08/weareallhizbullahnowreall)” and “from the river to the sea (http://hurryupharry.org/2009/05/14/stoppers-4-troof/)” sloganeering, the jihadi (http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2007/11/25/more_hosting_of_fascists.php)leaders (http://greensengage.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/caroline-lucas-another-platform-too-far/). It frequently seems that StWC is attempting to start a war, rather than stop one.In other words, there's no solid proof that StWC is in any way even remotely involved with the event, let alone organizing or promoting it. Instead all we get is guilt by association from someone else with an axe to grind turning into a baseless accusation. I won't willfully cross the line caramelpence got infracted for upthread, but I will say that my opinion of Idler's rumormongering could easily be expressed in similar terms.

[IndependentCitizen]

Fuck off, you sad sectarian shit, and come back when you have something interesting to say.

LOL.

That is all.

[Wanted Man]

Is Stop the War Coalition antisemitic? (http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/stop-the-war-holocaust-denier-atzmon-and-anti-semite-hart-unite/)
They seem to be having an event with Gilad Atzmon and Alan Hart and its been posted on Stormfront.

They don't "seem to be having" anything.

[bailey_187]

Calling people against Israeli occupation anti-semitic is absurd, as Palestinians are a Western-Semitic group. The most annoying thing is when you see the media talking about anti-semitic Muslims! Absurd! :rolleyes:

Semantics. You know what anti-semitism means when it is used, even if not fully correct technicaly.

[El Chuncho]

Semantics. You know what anti-semitism means when it is used, even if not fully correct technicaly.

Using ''Semitics'' to refer to only Jews is a problem in itself. :rolleyes: I have no problem with people calling anti-Jews ''anti-Semites'', just when they call Arabic people ''anti-Semites''.

[Hit The North]

Moved to Politics.

[9]

Calling people against Israeli occupation anti-semitic is absurd, as Palestinians are a Western-Semitic group. The most annoying thing is when you see the media talking about anti-semitic Muslims! Absurd! :rolleyes:
Using ''Semitics'' to refer to only Jews is a problem in itself. :rolleyes: I have no problem with people calling anti-Jews ''anti-Semites'', just when they call Arabic people ''anti-Semites''.

I don't want to derail the thread, but if you're going to go around saying things to make anti-Zionists look ridiculous, you should at least inquire about receiving some degree of monetary compensation from the state of Israel for your efforts on its behalf.

[graymouser]

It looks like the answer is no. The linked articles talk about one person on a single local Stop the War Coalition mailing list sent out an announcement about the event. It's attempting to use the most tenuous possible connection to slander a national coalition. I don't think that has any relevance. Flaming aside I don't think there is any merit to calling StWC "anti-semitic" at all.

[El Chuncho]

I don't want to derail the thread, but if you're going to go around saying things to make anti-Zionists look ridiculous, you should at least inquire about receiving some degree of monetary compensation from the state of Israel for your efforts on its behalf.

Wow, 9! I am astounded that you didn't really read the points in my post! ;) How is it ridiculous to think it absurd that people claim that Arabic Semites can be anti-Semitic. You can't, you are just being hyper-sensitive over a really small issue. :rolleyes:

I am not going to fall for your flame-bait, 9. Sorry. ;)

[ZeroNowhere]

Calling people against Israeli occupation anti-semitic is absurd, as Palestinians are a Western-Semitic group. The most annoying thing is when you see the media talking about anti-semitic Muslims! Absurd! :rolleyes:
Even worse, the term 'tit-mouse' is often used to refer to a bird. How strange.

[El Chuncho]

Even worse, the term 'tit-mouse' is often used to refer to a bird. How strange.


Not a good analogy at all. Arabs are Semites, and the claim that Arabs are ''anti-Semitic'' for being against Israeli expansionism has been used to prop up support for Israel for decades. If you cannot see the ridiculousness of calling Semites ''anti-Semites'' just for being against one group which is mostly European now anyway, then I feel sorry for you. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I am not going to be part of your hyper-sensitive, pro-nonsense flame war, Zero and 9, you can attack my post all you want and derail civil discussion, but I'll not reply to more of your nonsense. The fact is that Arabs cannot be anti-Semites unless they were self-hating too.

Saying that Arabs are ''anti-Semites'' paints a picture that they are not true Semites, whereas the Jews are. It is pretty racist, actually. If Arabs being ''anti-Jewish'' are anti-Semitic, then ''anti-Islamic'' Jews should be classed as anti-Semites too. Simple as that.

[Sam_b]

Another thoroughly dishonest post by the Idler, who indeed is a one-trick pony to criticising anything he appears to believe is SWP-oriented or an SWP 'front'.

As usual, for his so-called 'serious criticism', it amounts to posting one link and not doing anything to justify or back-up his position.

[The Idler]

I was wrong in the original post, this event has nothing to do with Stop the War Coalition, sorry. Feel free to do what you will, mods.

[Olentzero]

Big of you, Idler, and I mean that sincerely.

[Hit The North]

I was wrong in the original post, this event has nothing to do with Stop the War Coalition, sorry. Feel free to do what you will, mods.

Thread closed.