New York Allows Same-Sex Prisoners Conjugal Visits

[tachosomoza]

Another victory out of the Northeast!

aolnews.com/2011/04/25/new-york-allows-same-sex-conjugal-visits-in-state-prisons/


New York inmates who are in same-sex marriages or civil unions are being allowed conjugal visits with their spouses or partners.

The state officially announced the change in policy last week, making New York one of the few states to grant the private visits for gay and lesbian inmates in legally recognized same-sex partnerships. Although the policy will directly affect a relatively small number of people, advocates for same-sex marriage say it's an important step toward full equality for gay and lesbian couples.

Add in the www, etc. before the address.

[Dunk]

Now the only thing left to do is to smash the goddamned prisons.

[Sword and Shield]

Another victory out of the Northeast!

aolnews.com/2011/04/25/new-york-allows-same-sex-conjugal-visits-in-state-prisons/



Add in the www, etc. before the address.

California got there first. :P

[Zav]

Another victory out of the Northeast!

aolnews.com/2011/04/25/new-york-allows-same-sex-conjugal-visits-in-state-prisons/



Add in the www, etc. before the address.
One step closer to the Revolution.

[Sir Comradical]

Now the only thing left to do is to smash the goddamned prisons.

Or we can be more practical and turn them into factories.

[lines]

Now the only thing left to do is to smash the goddamned prisons.

How do you propose dealing with criminals?

[tachosomoza]

Or we can be more practical and turn them into factories.

So essentially we will be turning them back into prisons...

[Sir Comradical]

So essentially we will be turning them back into prisons...

Enlighten me.

[tachosomoza]

Enlighten me.

Haven't you noticed that most prisons are already used for the production of goods? They pay prisoners cents an hour for their work. As a matter of fact, companies often have employment contracts with jails and prisons. If you turn a prison into a factory, you'd essentially be keeping it true to the original purpose, which is the production of goods and services for the bougies at a pittance. The only thing different with a prison is that all of this is done under the banner of "correction through work".

[Sir Comradical]

Haven't you noticed that most prisons are already used for the production of goods? They pay prisoners cents an hour for their work. As a matter of fact, companies often have employment contracts with jails and prisons. If you turn a prison into a factory, you'd essentially be keeping it true to the original purpose, which is the production of goods and services for the bougies at a pittance. The only thing different with a prison is that all of this is done under the banner of "correction through work".

So exploitation stems from the means of production and not the social relations? If you think that then that's cool.

[tachosomoza]

So exploitation stems from the means of production and not the social relations? If you think that then that's cool.

My theory is that it's a mix of both, but mainly the means of production.

[Sir Comradical]

My theory is that it's a mix of both, but mainly the means of production.

How did you reach that conclusion?

[Tim Finnegan]

How did you reach that conclusion?
Heavy drinking and a knock on the head, one presumes.

[Sir Comradical]

Heavy drinking and a knock on the head, one presumes.

Perhaps tachosomoza is a primitivist.

[Dunk]

How do you propose dealing with criminals?

Free them?

[Dunk]

Or we can be more practical and turn them into factories.

I don't know if you've ever been inside a prison, but that would basically involve demolishing the building to build a new one which could facilitate the production of something of use. They are not something which could easily be re-purposed. I've spent a lot of time in a supermax, and I can tell you the only use they can serve is in the imprisonment of human beings. You want a factory? Knock that fucker down and propose to your local council to build one.

[tachosomoza]

I don't know if you've ever been inside a prison, but that would basically involve demolishing the building to build a new one which could facilitate the production of something of use. I've spent a lot of time in a supermax, and I can tell you the only use the only use they can serve is in the imprisonment of human beings. You want a factory? Knock that fucker down and propose to your local council to build one.

I've done bids in low security federal camps, and those are more suited for country clubs or universities than for factories. There weren't even any whole perimeter fences.

[Tim Finnegan]

Free them?
That doesn't strike me as, y'know, not being a horrible idea?

[Dunk]

That doesn't strike me as, y'know, not being a horrible idea?

I don't not quite know what you're not trying to say. :D

Do you think prisoners should be freed during a possible revolution or don't you?

I think the overwhelming majority of prisoners should be freed and put to work, as all people should work. Meaningful work and shared democratic control with their fellow workers, not transfer from a slave life to gulag shit for the tens of millions of incarcerated criminals around the world so people can keep an eye on them. If local councils decide that special consideration must be taken for rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, whatever - that's their prerogative. But I'm going to be the worker that stands up and argues for the liberation of the overwhelming majority of these slaves.

[Dunk]

I've done bids in low security federal camps, and those are more suited for country clubs or universities than for factories. There weren't even any whole perimeter fences.

I'm sure such a thing will be decided on a case by case basis. Though I don't think the white collar prison country clubs could be considered remotely typical.

[tachosomoza]

I don't not quite know what you're not trying to say. :D

Do you think prisoners should be freed during a possible revolution or don't you?

I think the overwhelming majority of prisoners should be freed and put to work, as all people should work. Meaningful work and shared democratic control with their fellow workers, not transfer from a slave life to gulag shit for the tens of millions of incarcerated criminals around the world so people can keep an eye on them. If local councils decide that special consideration must be taken for rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, whatever - that's their prerogative. But I'm going to be the worker that stands up and argues for the liberation of the overwhelming majority of these slaves.


You know that a lot of prisoners are sociopathic individuals who have been conditioned by the adverse conditions in which they grew up and live life to do anything they can to take advantage of the system for their benefit, right? For most of them, refusal to work was the reason they came to prison in the first place. They don't care about democratic control, etc. They'll monopolize the whole shindig. You don't agree with them or do what they say, they'll hurt you, just like the fascist gangs.

[tachosomoza]

I'm sure such a thing will be decided on a case by case basis. Though I don't think the white collar prison country clubs could be considered remotely typical.

There is no such thing as a "typical" prison.

[Dunk]

You know that a lot of prisoners are sociopathic individuals who have been conditioned by the adverse conditions in which they grew up and live life to do anything they can to take advantage of the system for their benefit, right? For most of them, refusal to work was the reason they came to prison in the first place. They don't care about democratic control, etc. They'll monopolize the whole shindig. You don't agree with them or do what they say, they'll hurt you, just like the fascist gangs.

Prisons are filled with the poor; prisoners are often coerced to labor for next to nothing - but I'm sure their crimes have nothing to do with class? Refusal to work? Because I'm sure there's enough meaningful and sustainable work out there for them, right? Young Billy could have been President instead of slinging rocks? I'm sure all these non-violent criminals in prison fucking deserve imprisonment, do they?

Free slaves, and fuck anyone who suggests otherwise. Prisons aren't filled with fascists, they're maintained by proto-fascists.

[Dunk]

There is no such thing as a "typical" prison.

I don't know exactly what you're suggesting. I'm telling you the majority of prisons aren't fucking country clubs, and you come back at me with "every prison is unique"?

[tachosomoza]

Prisons are filled with the poor, they're coerced to labor for next to nothing, but I'm sure their crimes have nothing to do with class? Refusal to work? Because I'm sure there's enough meaningful and sustainable work out there for them, right? Young Billy could have been President instead of slinging rocks? I'm sure all these non-violent criminals in prison fucking deserve imprisonment, do they?

Free slaves, and fuck anyone who suggests otherwise. Prisons aren't filled with fascists, they're maintained by proto-fascists.

I agree with the some first part of your argument, but my point is that the vast majority of prisoners chose illegalism as a career, much as I did. I had job opportunities, but I chose to live outside the system because I couldn't in all good conscience kneel to a system that enslaved some of my ancestors (my dad's black) and committed genocide against others (my mom's part Apache). I'm as antifa as they come, hell, I've been locked up for the cause before. I've sat at rec and chow and heard these guys talking, they put on a false front of respectability and play the poor victim/wronged minority, but they made up their minds to become thieves/con artists. Most of them seek employment just so that they may screw over the employer. There's nothing wrong with it, but I just don't want you having the impression that criminals are entirely victims of circumstance.

[Dunk]

I agree with the some first part of your argument, but my point is that the vast majority of prisoners chose illegalism as a career, much as I did. I had job opportunities, but I chose to live outside the system because I couldn't in all good conscience kneel to a system that enslaved some of my ancestors (my dad's black) and committed genocide against others (my mom's part Apache). I'm as antifa as they come, hell, I've been locked up for the cause before. I've sat at rec and chow and heard these guys talking, they put on a false front of respectability and play the poor victim/wronged minority, but they made up their minds to become thieves/con artists. Most of them seek employment just so that they may screw over the employer. There's nothing wrong with it, but I just don't want you having the impression that criminals are entirely victims of circumstance.

I've just been struck with the irony of being a former prison guard arguing with a former prisoner for the liberation of prisoners.

I'm sorry I got heated in my previous posts. It was uncalled for.

The entire concept of theft or conning in a society in which the means of production are commonly owned and controlled by workers, where the needs of everyone are met seems like a stretch to me. The environment which drives people to take the path of illegality to satisfy their needs and ambitions would be removed and radically changed. Such an environment would put severe limitations on not only what constitutes a crime, but also removes rational motives for many current crimes.

If there are people that remain a threat in such a society, their communities can determine what must be done.

[tachosomoza]

No offense taken. But, know that greed and other antisocial tendencies will always be present in the human race. Psychopaths DO exist. I agree that those who display extreme instances of it should be punished appropriately by members of the community rather than by a fascist gov.