Do I have to be an atheist to be a communist?

[UltraWright]

Do I have to drop my faith to be a communist?

[The Man]

Nope. There are many Christian Communists here. It's just that a majority of us are atheists.

[L.A.P.]

Not necessarily, there are plenty of christian currents of communism and liberation theology. However, it does completely contradict the philosophical backbone of Marxism (materialism). But whatever floats your boat.

[thesadmafioso]

If you want to properly adhere to the materialist framework upon which communist thought bases itself in, then yes you do. You may choose to call yourself a communist or what have you, but without a developed understanding of this vital concept of Marxist thought you will not fit the technical description of the title in any meaningful sense.

[Terminator X]

Yes, we'll be checking IDs at the door.

[Garret]

Materialism is deeply rooted in Communist ideology. It's not mandatory to be an atheist, but it makes more sense to be one.

You should be good as long as you don't let your religion get in the way of your political beliefs, so stay secular.

[The Red Next Door]

who say you could not mix materalism and faith together.

[thesadmafioso]

Materialism is deeply rooted in Communist ideology. It's not mandatory to be an atheist, but it makes more sense to be one.

You should be good as long as you don't let your religion get in the way of your political beliefs, so stay secular.

Simply ignoring the glaring contradictions between faith in religion and materialist thought does not remove the cognitive dissidence, the issue between the two opposing world views will still remain. Does that really constitute someone being good?

[x371322]

I'd just like to add that one does not have to be a "marxist" to be a communist (though that's the norm, usually). I'm an atheist too, and find religion damaging and demeaning, but I've never seen that point of view as a prerequisite to left wing politics.

More power to ya, whatever you believe. Welcome to Rev Left. :)

[thesadmafioso]

who say you could not mix materalism and faith together.

Logic and an actual understanding of materialism say that, no individual needs to bother with saying it. A blind and baseless belief in the metaphysical nonsense of religion could not be further opposite of material thought based in the objectivity of reality.

[L.A.P.]

who say you could not mix materalism and faith together.

Logic.

[Property Is Robbery]

Do I have to drop my faith to be a communist?
May I ask you what faith you belong to?

[Le Libérer]

Dont be turned off to Communism over feeling like you need to give up your faith. When I arrived here I was still a believer, but the more I learned about materialism the more I let faith go.

Theres something very liberating to finally "get it". I feel it really is salvation not to be wrapped in a fear based mentality. And now I know when this life is over, its over. I'm dont sit around waiting for the afterlife anymore, but I do make every day count and try to have as many special moments as possible. You dont do that when you believe in an after life.

[Manic Impressive]

Do I have to drop my faith to be a communist?
No, but it helps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_communism

I think it all depends on your interpretation of your religion.

[Jimmie Higgins]

As long as you believe humans can and should work together to change and reorganize society along a more cooperative and non-exploitative way, then there is not really any contradiction if you also believe in a soul or reincarnation or an afterlife or something like that.

The concrete problems with many organized religions is that they are often used to justify the class-rule status quo: "original sin" means that human societies will always be shit; caste decides what role you are assigned; gay people are sinners; only God, not man, can change things for the better; etc.

[Pretty Flaco]

I think personal beliefs mixed with humanism is fine.

I myself am an atheist. Don't give a shit if somebody wants to believe in a god. If it butters your bread...

[Gorilla]

As the great Irish Marxist, James Connolly, wrote:


The day has passed for patching up the capitalist system; it must go. And in the work of abolishing it the Catholic and the Protestant, the Catholic and the Jew, the Catholic and the Freethinker, the Catholic and the Buddhist, the Catholic and the Mahometan will co-operate together, knowing no rivalry but the rivalry of endeavour toward an end beneficial to all. For, as we have said elsewhere, socialism is neither Protestant nor Catholic, Christian nor Freethinker, Buddhist, Mahometan, nor Jew; it is only Human. We of the socialist working class realise that as we suffer together we must work together that we may enjoy together. We reject the firebrand of capitalist warfare and offer you the olive leaf of brotherhood and justice to and for all. - "Labour, Nationality and Religion"




We do not mean that its supporters are necessarily materialists in the vulgar, and merely anti-theological, sense of the term, but that they do not base their socialism upon any interpretation of the language or meaning of scripture, nor upon the real or supposed intentions of a beneficent Deity. They as a party neither affirm or deny those things, but leave it to the individual conscience of each member to determine what beliefs on such questions they shall hold. As a political party they wisely prefer to take their stand upon the actual phenomena of social life as they can be observed in operation amongst us to-day, or as they can be traced in the recorded facts of history. - Socialism and Religion

[Dunk]

I'm going to repost most of what I originally posted in OI's subforum "Religion", since the newest members among us don't typically seem to head there for questions or topics related to it.

It's possible to be a communist based on conventional morality v. a system of ethical principles, but in my opinion, it's a tenuous position to hold in comparison to materialism because the justifications religious socialists have in being socialists inevitably regress to scripture. If, for example, a religious person objects to this and claims "But I don't justify communism with scripture", then you are ignoring what scripture might have to say and you are not very religious. If a communist does justify communism based on scripture - dandy - because you can justify just about any particular position in scripture.

I think a simultaneous belief in the supernatural and in the overthrow of capitalism for a communist society is contradictory because belief in the supernatural necessitates belief in universal positions or divine law. Beliefs or positions which transcend not only time, but also current social conditions.

More specifically, what I'm trying to say is that as communists we believe society is what we make of it together - it is the combined social product of our labor. If we didn't believe so, achieving communism would be impossible. This is why we disagree with the right wing when they claim that alternative societies are impossible for whatever reasons they cook up; Divine Right, human nature, economic calculation problem. Belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being(s) is a contradiction to the challenge that society is what we make of it, because if such supernatural forces exist, society is not what we make of it, it is what it or they make of it.

In closing, I want to say religious communists are my comrades, and that even though I consider belief in the supernatural to be contradictory with materialism - they seem to get by just fine. I also consider any suggestion by self-proclaimed communists that religious people should be marginalized in a socialist or communist society as anathema to human liberation.

[JerryBiscoTrey]

Well is there a specific tendency of Communism that your interested in subscribing to? If your an Anarchist then yes you could keep your faith and be a Communist. However, if your a Marxist-Leninist you may find difficulty balancing your faith with your political ideology

[psgchisolm]

No. Although I'm not a communist.;) But as long as you don't mix religion with politics you are good. There is actually a group of us here as you can see by my tendency. Join the group. Unless you aren't christian, then well err..awkward you can't join.:blushing:

[Princess Luna]

Many people say yes, but they are idiots

[mllanders]

Only to the extent that you want your own personal to be political.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

"The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties – this knowledge, this feeling … that is the core of the true religious sentiment." -Albert Einstein

[MarxSchmarx]

Why is materialism so integral to being a communist? There is nothing about the social ownership of the means of production and the equality and brotherhood of man that requires non-belief in god. In fact belief in the divine in most world traditions commands precisely that.

Most theists in the movement that worry about these kinds of things anyway seem to adapt a sort of methodological materialism and aren't really on a quest to prove God's existince or some such anyway. But still, I just don't see how even logically there is a contradiction between being a theist and a communist.

[WeAreReborn]

No you don't have to be an atheist. Once the revolution comes around though organized religion would be eliminated but personal religion could remain with no problem. I personally am a communist but I'm not an atheist. We can't know if there is or isn't a God is basically my ideology. Anyways, welcome to Revleft comrade! :)

[lines]

Investigate "liberation theology" also you can be religious and a communist, there are many different communist thinkers with a variety of opinions on things.

[Le Libérer]

Investigate "liberation theology" also you can be religious and a communist, there are many different communist thinkers with a variety of opinions on things.

Thats where I was when I arrived here, liberation theology. And putting many of the practices into use, can bring forth a socialist end.

But theres that nasty Catholic Church that rears its ugly head to squash real liberation. You have to move past and away from the Church to evolve.

[hatzel]

But theres that nasty Catholic Church that rears its ugly head to squash real liberation. You have to move past and away from the Church to evolve.Oh, you're such a Tolstoyan sometimes! As he so eloquently said, '[t]he significance of the Gospel is hidden from believers by the Church, from unbelievers by Science.' :) If the OP happens to be a Christian (I'm going out on a limb here with an assumption), then I would heartily suggest reading Tolstoy, even if just for his critique of the institution of the Church. You can do that right here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Kingdom_of_God_Is_Within_You), and even here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/To_The_Working_People), here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Slavery_of_Our_Times) or here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Church_and_State). Even if you're not a Christian, they're well worth the read, I can assure you!

[zpull]

My journey into the left began with a Bible, a cigarette and a cussing crippled pastor wearing a Che T-Shirt. I find it very hard to believe that after reading the red words, one would still be a right wing capitalist. That said, Christianity has nothing to do with the red words, it is all about finding anything biblical and abusing the heck out of it to morally justify selfishness.

I'm not a Christian but I am Deist.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Not at all.

And, really, guys, managing to maintain a material-analysis while being religious isn't really hard. People can do two things at once, my faith colors my view of as Fly Pan Dulce said, the mystical and impenetrable. My Marxian materialism covers the processes that rule things that are observable and quantifiable. It's not difficult, nor is there a central conflict between the two.

[Dimmu]

Like i wrote in other threads.. There should be no problem with personal belifes aslong as you believe that all of us are equal no matter what "god" we pray too..

But organized religion has no place in a communistic society, because it divides and enslaves people.

[1Minute2Midnight]

As long as you don't support scientology, amirite?

[thesadmafioso]

Bit of a side note to the main discussion, but Pope Pius XII excommunicated all communists from the Catholic church in 1949. So I'm not entirely sure that one can be both a catholic and a communist, but regardless it does show a bit of hostility between the two camps in a very tangible political sense.

[Astarte]

Do I have to drop my faith to be a communist?

No.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

No you don't have to. But if you stick around the left long enough you will come over to the dark side *Evil laugh*.
That's what happened to me at least. I considered myself a socialist and a Christian. Then I read some socialist literature and then the Bible...Saw it in a totally different light.

[Dr Mindbender]

I think it depends what you mean by 'Christian'.

I've become increasingly convinced there is 2 types of christianity. There is biblical christianity then there is benevolent christianity.

A biblical christian who one who takes old testament scripture literally. They believe that gays are hellbound, even the old testament doctirne that blacks are 'inferior' due to being 'fencesitters' during the day before days. Basically they are ignorant right wing d-bags. Probably not very Jesus-like either. Benevolent christians on the other hand, concentrate purely on the teachings of the Gospels rather than the 5000 year old book that has been translated out of context through the years. They believe in turning ones cheek, being their brothers keeper. I'd go as far as to say as being socialist. If i was you i'd look at 'liberation theology'.

My favourite verse.

Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Luke 18:24-25

[Granite Comrade]

I am actually a practicing Buddhist and haven't really seen any conflict....in fact the idea of letting go of materialism has actually increased my political beliefs....also, as a Buddhist, I have no need for the concept of god, revering Buddha as only a man and his teachings only as they apply and work for me......

I don't know if that helps with your own personal faith issues but I can see how Christianity truly conflicts with the idea of communism.....

[SacRedMan]

Do I have to drop my faith to be a communist?

If you don't predic or put Christian ideals in your theories or opinions, it's good.