[Dutch-German] Council Communism - What Is It?

[Jose Gracchus]

I want people who really know what they're talking about. I don't mean random yahoos who call themselves "councilists" or "council communists" [though if you wish to differentiate them and describe them, be my guest as well], but the actual council communists and councilists, the ones who came out of the Dutch-German Left.

Who were they? Out of what struggles did they emerge? What were their organizations? What were their main lines on organization and historical outcomes? What was their perception of other organizations and currents? Links to sources and works would be great.

[Devrim]

I want people who really know what they're talking about. I don't mean random yahoos who call themselves "councilists" or "council communists" [though if you wish to differentiate them and describe them, be my guest as well], but the actual council communists and councilists, the ones who came out of the Dutch-German Left.

I don't think that you will have much success. None of the organisations that had their roots in the Dutch-German left survive today. The last of them was the Dutch group Daad en Gedacht. An obituary of one of their leading militant Cajo Brendel can be found here (http://en.internationalism.org/icconline/2007/cajo-brendel-1915-2007).

Devrim

[Jose Gracchus]

I meant the historical organizations, not extant ones.

[Devrim]

I meant the historical organizations, not extant ones.

Ah, I miss understood you. I thought you meant you wanted 'the actual council communists and councilists' to comment, not people to comment on them. I will try to answer then.


Who were they?

Basically the left-wing, and majority of the KAPD who were expelled from the party in early 1920. Internationally they found some support in some similar groups, the biggest of whom would have been in Holland, England, and Bulgaria.


Out of what struggles did they emerge?

We could look at it historically and trace it back to the Dutch mass strike of 1903, and the struggle against Kautsky in the SPD, but essentially I think we have to say the German Revolution.


What were their organizations?

In Germany in the 1920s the KAPD and the AAUD, which latter split into two factions the other called the AAUD-E.


What were their main lines on organization and historical outcomes?

The KAPD was for a vanguard party, and the AAUD was its factory organisation. The later split from the AAUD believed that 'the revolution was not a party affair'. All of their organisations declined with the end of the German revolution though small groups survived in the Netherlands until the 1980s.


What was their perception of other organizations and currents?

The KAPD was a sympathising section of the Comintern until it was expelled.


Links to sources and works would be great.

For a detailed historically treatment in English there is the book by the ICC, which unfortunately isn't available on line*, and a book by Gilles Dauvé and Denis Authier, which is: http://libcom.org/library/communist-left-germany-1918-1921.

If you want contemporary texts probably the two most important were
'World Revolution and Communist Tactics' http://libcom.org/library/world-revolution-communist-tactics-pannekoek and 'An Open Letter to Comrade Lenin' http://libcom.org/library/open-letter-to-comrade-lenin-gorter

The libcom library contains a whole host of articles.

Devrim

*A version of this text published by the author after he left the ICC is available online. Apparently it has a couple of very minor changes to the original, but unfortunately the English version doesn't appear to have been proof read very well. It can be found here: http://libcom.org/files/dutchleft.pdf

[black magick hustla]

I want people who really know what they're talking about. I don't mean random yahoos who call themselves "councilists" or "council communists" [though if you wish to differentiate them and describe them, be my guest as well], but the actual council communists and councilists, the ones who came out of the Dutch-German Left.

Who were they? Out of what struggles did they emerge? What were their organizations? What were their main lines on organization and historical outcomes? What was their perception of other organizations and currents? Links to sources and works would be great.
Becareful with the word "councilist". Some people get offended by it. It generally is seemed like an insult. The ICC uses it as a term to describe "deformed council communist ideas" rather than real
"council communism". For example, in one of its polemics, the ICC called Internationalist Perspectives "councilist". To be honest I dont see any worth in that type of political insults (the maoists and trotskyists are really good at coining up stupid terms like that too), it makes you seem like a weirdo and funny.

[Devrim]

Becareful with the word "councilist". Some people get offended by it. It generally is seemed like an insult. The ICC uses it as a term to describe "deformed council communist ideas" rather than real
"council communism". For example, in one of its polemics, the ICC called Internationalist Perspectives "councilist". To be honest I dont see any worth in that type of political insults (the maoists and trotskyists are really good at coining up stupid terms like that too), it makes you seem like a weirdo and funny.

I don't think anybody else uses it like this except the ICC. I don't think it is an insult either. It is just a term the ICC uses to distinguish between two different periods. Perhaps, like many of the ICC's other terms it is not very useful, but that is another question.

Devrim

[black magick hustla]

ive never read or heard anybody ever call themselves "councilist" except like individuals posting in a message board. every time someone raises the term against a group the group claims "we are not councilist!!!!".

[Savage]

I think Maldoror is right, in the same ICC articles where they defend Lenin against 'Leninism', it is also argued that the later schools of 'councilism' were false continuations of Pannekoek, Ruhle etc.

[Arilou Lalee'lay]

For some reason I feel like I should have something to add to this thread...

I just call myself a council communist for lack of a better word. Right now I'm interested mainly in culture and alienation type stuff, not hammering out the perfect political system. But on this forum most people are interested in political and economic systems, so I made the camp I'm (tentatively) in obvious.

I disagree with some of the stuff most council communists agreed on, but haven't given it enough serious thought to even bother arguing with an orthodox council communist. I'll probably change my user name eventually.

I used councilist because it's shorter than the alternatives, and as strategic re-branding.

[Jose Gracchus]

Hey, my remarks about "council communism" were not a barb or witch hunt. Its just there are a lot of proponents of a kind of vague communism based on workers' councils [RedStar2000, Castoriadis, even folks like Chomsky], but that's not what "council communism" as a politics.

[Arilou Lalee'lay]

I know, I just like to talk about myself :) As for the original question, the other posters are probably more knowledgeable than me, and I enjoyed reading their responses.

[Zanthorus]

Reading around on the Marxists Internet Archive I came across this text by Marcel van der Linden (The guy who wrote the book summarising the debates on the nature of the Soviet Union, 'Western Marxism and the Soviet Union') 'On Council Communism (http://www.marxists.org/subject/left-wing/2004/council-communism.htm)'. It is a fairly short overview but it seems correct on most points.