Libyan Government Gives Weapons to the People

[The Vegan Marxist]

http://en.cubadebate.cu/files/2011/04/libia-Libya.jpg

Libyan Government Gives Weapons to the People
Apr 21, 2011

The Libyan Government started to distribute weapons among the population in anticipation of a NATO land invasion, according to a spokesman who denied reports on the capture of a western city by rebels.

According to government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim, “many cities are organizing squadrons to repeal any possible land attack” by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) after limited progress with air bombings.

“If NATO comes to Misratah or any other Libyan city, we will unleash hell over their men. We will be like a fireball, ten times worse than Iraq,” warned Ibrahim, as he told journalists that the idea is to destroy the foreign invading forces.

He said that “we are arming the population with rifles and light weapons, but not to fight the rebels,” but NATO militaries.

After Britain confirmed that it was sending 10 military trainers to Benghazi, the main insurgence bastion in eastern Libya, France and Italy followed suit and announced that they would help rebels to organize and use communication equipment.

After weeks of impasse in the war conflict, centered in Ajdabiya and Brega, in the country eastern areas, and in Mosratah, in the west, the Government of Muammar Gaddafi declared itself today in favor of a political solution and the end of NATO bombings.

Libyan Foreign Minister Abdelati Al-Obeidi said that if aggressions end, elections might be held in six months and even Gaddafi fate could be discussed, as the president son said a new Constitution is ready for a post-war Libya.

However, Ibrahim said government forces control 80 percent of Misratah, the scene of the fiercest clashes of the last few days, and said there is no “power balance” problem there because all tribes are on Gaddafi side.

Armed opponents control the port and a nearby area, according to Obrahim, while other sources reported that Misratah, the third largest in Libya, continues under heavy fire, with 50-60 people wounded daily, mostly civilians.

Regarding those figures, Tripoli authorities lamented the death of two foreign journalists and vowed to investigate what happened, though they made clear that “this is war and people on both sides are killed.”

Forces loyal to Gaddafi accused NATO of bombing civil and military areas in Tripoli, and state-run JANA news agency reported 11 people killed and another 18 wounded by air attacks against two cities south of Tripoli.

The Atlantic alliance denied having caused civil casualties and admitted incursions against a bunker in Jelat Al Ferjan region.

Ibrahim also denied that a dozen Libyan officers and soldiers, including one general, deserted the Army in the wake of the alleged taking of a city by rebels in the border with Tunisia.

http://en.cubadebate.cu/news/2011/04/21/libyan-government-gives-weapons-people/

[Return to the Source]

The crickets have officially replaced the "leftist" rebel-supporters. I don't blame them--it's pretty hard to continue to write positively about a racist, fundamentalist force hoping to implement a pro-Western puppet state after John McCain calls them "freedom fighters."

[RadioRaheem84]

If the rebellion was such a popular movement then why is Gaddafi giving guns to civilians?

[Princess Luna]

The crickets have officially replaced the "leftist" rebel-supporters. I don't blame them--it's pretty hard to continue to write positively about a racist, fundamentalist force hoping to implement a pro-Western puppet state after John McCain calls them "freedom fighters."

Nope we are still here :D

VICTORY FOR THE LIBYAN PEOPLE!
http://www.allthatsleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/libyan-rebel-flag.png


If the rebellion was such a popular movement then why is Gaddafi giving guns to civilians?
If the Red Army was such a popular movement, why did some people continue to fight for the whites? its called a civil war, of course some people still support Gaddafi but it doesn't mean the majority do.

[Sword and Shield]

VICTORY FOR THE LIBYAN PEOPLE!
DOWN WITH THE MONARCHISTS!
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110220160361/althistory/images/1/12/800px-Flag_of_Libya_svg.png

[RadioRaheem84]

Nope we are still here :D

VICTORY FOR THE LIBYAN PEOPLE!
http://www.allthatsleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/libyan-rebel-flag.png


If the Red Army was such a popular movement, why did some people continue to fight for the whites? its called a civil war, of course some people still support Gaddafi but it doesn't mean the majority do.

Is this the monarchist flag?

[Sword and Shield]

Is this the monarchist flag?

Yes it is.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Is this the monarchist flag?

Yes, it is. And before people try stating the contrary, here's another photo of the rebels showing pictures of both the flag and of former King Idris!

http://i53.tinypic.com/kdq0xu.jpg

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

i'm not one to take sides on the wars of the ruling class, but it becomes clearer everyday that we've yet again been shoe-horned into a war on the false pretext that it is a liberatory one. pro-western intervention people need to rethink their position. it is clear that nato will have more blood on its hands - this is a brush the revolutionary left doesn't want to be tarred with.

i support only libya's proletariat in this crisis. certainly not the 'rebels' and not even gadaffi. at least they are armed though.

[The Vegan Marxist]

its called a civil war, of course some people still support Gaddafi but it doesn't mean the majority do.

I would highly beg to differ!

But, let's just say that you're correct - that the rebels do have majority support. SO WHAT? They're still being aided by the imperialists - both on ground and air! All you're doing is endorsing your support towards pro-Monarchists who're being aided by both al-Qaeda and the imperialist forces. Congrats!

Oh, and since you're clearly only supporting the rebels, at least this is all that you've clarified on, because they hold majority support, then this is pure opportunism, "comrade". Now what did Lenin say about opportunists? Oh yeah, that's right!

Opportunism, and the Collapse of the Second International (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/dec/x01.htm)

[Princess Luna]

I would highly beg to differ!

But, let's just say that you're correct - that the rebels do have majority support. SO WHAT? They're still being aided by the imperialists - both on ground and air! All you're doing is endorsing your support towards pro-Monarchists who're being aided by both al-Qaeda and the imperialist forces. Congrats!

Oh, and since you're clearly only supporting the rebels, at least this is all that you've clarified on, because they hold majority support, then this is pure opportunism, "comrade". Now what did Lenin say about opportunists? Oh yeah, that's right!

Opportunism, and the Collapse of the Second International (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/dec/x01.htm)
First the whole "allied with al-Qaeda" stuff is the same laughable bullshit, that America tried to use as a excuse for supporting Mubarak in Egypt, and the rebels are not out to restore the monarchy (though there may be a few monarchists in their ranks, but before you start screaming your ass off remember there are also a few Communists in their ranks aswell) the flag was chosen because it represents Libya before Gaddafi.

[RadioRaheem84]

First the whole "allied with al-Qaeda" stuff is the same laughable bullshit, that America tried to use as a excuse for supporting Mubarak in Egypt, and the rebels are not out to restore the monarchy (though there may be a few monarchists in their ranks, but before you start screaming your ass off remember there are also a few Communists in their ranks aswell) the flag was chosen because it represents Libya before Gaddafi.

Still in fucking denial.

Flying a monarchist flag while denying any reactionary tendencies in the rebellion!

[Sir Comradical]

Nope we are still here :D

VICTORY FOR THE LIBYAN PEOPLE!
http://www.allthatsleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/libyan-rebel-flag.png

That's the flag of the monarchy. This is why the rebels are reactionaries.

[Princess Luna]

Wow, you people are idiots. various news agencies has asked rebels why they are flying the monarchy flag, and the response has been unanimous
"The flag represents Libya before Gaddafi, we don't support the return of the monarchy"

[RadioRaheem84]

Monarchist or not (I am sure a lot are though), the point still stands that the rebels are siding with NATO...................ah fuck it, I've repeated myself enough today.

Just know that you're backing a set of neo-liberal opportunist.

[Sir Comradical]

Wow, you people are idiots. various news agencies has asked rebels why they are flying the monarchy flag, and the response has been unanimous
"The flag represents Libya before Gaddafi, we don't support the return of the monarchy"

This guy disagrees.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9617/liby.jpg

[The Vegan Marxist]

First the whole "allied with al-Qaeda" stuff is the same laughable bullshit

Ummm...seriously? You do realize the rebels have already admitted that an al-Qaeda cell are fighting alongside them, right? lol

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

[gorillafuck]

Lol "Monarchists". The rebels aren't trying to institute a monarchy, they're just using that flag because it's a Libyan flag not associated with Qaddafi. I can't believe you people actually think there's a substantial faction trying to institute a monarchy.

From what I've read the rebels are mostly Islamists akin to Mujihadeen, or general anti-Qaddafi people without a greater ideology.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Lol "Monarchists". The rebels aren't trying to institute a monarchy, they're just using that flag because it's a Libyan flag not associated with Qaddafi. I can't believe you people think they're trying to institute a monarchy.

From what I've read the rebels are mostly Islamists akin to Mujihadeen, or general anti-Qaddafi people without a greater ideology.

Even if the rebels, as a whole, aren't pro-Monarchists, you can't deny that a portion of them ARE pro-Monarchists, as shown from their open support towards King Idris. You do realize that there's members of the NCLO that are akin to the ousted royal family, right? Who's to say they won't be who leads them to power?

[gorillafuck]

Even if the rebels, as a whole, aren't pro-Monarchists, you can't deny that a portion of them ARE pro-Monarchists, as shown from their open support towards King Idris.Tiny insignificant portion.


You do realize that there's members of the NCLO that are akin to the ousted royal family, right? Who's to say they won't be who leads them to power?Sure. But monarchism is so insignificant to the overall rebels that it's not worth discussing. Like I said before, they're mostly Islamists/Muhijadeen and generic anti-Qaddafi types. The talk of monarchist rebels in Libya is just stupid.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Tiny insignificant portion.


Prove that please.

[gorillafuck]

Prove that please.You have it backwards. But for what it's worth, none of the organizations in the NCLO are monarchists and there has been no admittance or proof of heavy monarchist activity as there has been with Islamists.

So yeah, show me your proof of a significant monarchist faction. Keep in mind that a picture of a rebel with a picture of the former king is not proof of a significant monarchist faction.

[The Vegan Marxist]

^That's the thing, I don't have evidence to show that the rebels have pro-Monarchists in their camp that's of either small or large proportions. But I'm not the one stating that the rebels are either or, now am I? My only statement is that there's a possibility of those within the pro-Monarchist faction to come to power, especially if it means better relations with that of the imperialists.

That's my only objection on the matter.

[The Vegan Marxist]

It's articles like these that make me hesitant on making a conclusive position on whether or not a Monarchy is being supported:


Libya's 'exiled prince' suggests monarchy's return
Apr 20 2011

Muhammad al-Senussi, the heir apparent to Libya's overthrown monarch, voiced support Wednesday for the return of a constitutional monarchy to steer his country back to democracy.

Senussi told the European Parliament he was ready to help his country but that it was up to the Libyan people to choose their destiny if rebels prevail in their battle against Muammar Gaddafi's 42-year dictatorship.

"Let me stress that it is up to the Libyan people to decide whether they go down the road of a constitutional monarchy or that of a republic," he told the 27-nation European Union assembly.

Libya's 1951 constitution, which was amended in 1963, created a constitutional monarchy with his great uncle, Idris al-Mahdi al-Senussi, as the king, who was later overthrown by Kadhafi.

"It may not have been active for 42 years but, suitably updated, it could form the basis of a new Libya," the 48-year-old prince said.

"It is my belief that there is no more solid and sensible basis than the constitution available for political transition in Libya and neither is any likely to be agreed in the near term," he added. "My own duty is clear," Senussi said.

"Whether the people want a return to a constitutional monarch or not, I will do everything I can to assist in creating a democratic state for Libyans based on a representative parliament chosen by free and fair elections."

Senussi said he has good relations with the Transitional National Council, the opposition group based in the eastern city of Benghazi.

But while he said he supports any group "working in the people's interest," he stressed that the TNC is "just that transitional."

The prince said he expects the TNC to move to Tripoli whenever Kadhafi falls, but "the existing body will need to make way for a new council made up of representatives from all over Libya, so they can have a referendum to choose the form of government they desire."

Senussi, who has lived in exile in Britain since 1988, was invited to Brussels by the parliament's European Conservatives and Reformists Group, which includes British Prime Minister David Cameron's party.

http://www.thenewage.co.za/16196-1019-53-Libya's_'exiled_prince'_suggests_monarchy's_return

[Yuppie Grinder]

Could we get statistics or interviews from people who're participating in the revolution? I don't trust American corporate news.

[gorillafuck]

^That's the thing, I don't have evidence to show that the rebels have pro-Monarchists in their camp that's of either small or large proportions. But I'm not the one stating that the rebels are either or, now am I? My only statement is that there's a possibility of those within the pro-Monarchist faction to come to power, especially if it means better relations with that of the imperialists. "All you're doing is endorsing your support towards pro-Monarchists who're being aided by both al-Qaeda and the imperialist forces. Congrats!" - TVM

[The Vegan Marxist]

"All you're doing is endorsing your support towards pro-Monarchists who're being aided by both al-Qaeda and the imperialist forces. Congrats!" - TVM

There are pro-monarchists and there are al-Qaeda. The Libyan rebels, to me, seem really disorganized and differing factions within them, due to said disorganization. I never clarified at what proportion.

[robbo203]

Monarchist or not (I am sure a lot are though), the point still stands that the rebels are siding with NATO...................ah fuck it, I've repeated myself enough today.

Just know that you're backing a set of neo-liberal opportunist.

And you presumably are backing a billionaire scumbag tyrant in the form of Gaddafi...

I keep asking the question - why does it have to be assumed that opposition to the libyan capitalist dictatorship has to entail support for western imperialism? You can oppose both, you know, and Libya itself was a minor imperialist power itself at least in terms of its overseas investment portfolio - $70 billions

[RadioRaheem84]

And you presumably are backing a billionaire scumbag tyrant in the form of Gaddafi...

I keep asking the question - why does it have to be assumed that opposition to the libyan capitalist dictatorship has to entail support for western imperialism? You can oppose both, you know, and Libya itself was a minor imperialist power itself at least in terms of its overseas investment portfolio - $70 billions

Damn, I feel like a broken record repeating myself. Instead I will let Punisa describe my position. Emphasis mine.


It' pointless to call out someone for lack of support of a genuine communist revolution. We ALL are in favor of that.
But situation is never black and white (unfortunately).

Nobody here actually supports Gadaffi when it comes to his policies or ideology - there are simply no objective reasons to do so.
When I claim I "support" Gadaffi that simply means I recognize that Libya is in the state of war and my support goes to the side of his army.
This has nothing to do with my support of the way he runs Libya and I would always welcome a communist alternative.

I am disgusted by UN and NATO and the whole situation. Every single NATO airstrike makes me support Gadaffi even more and I will not use my political viewpoints in order to hide my genuine feelings.
If UN agreement simply enforced no-fly zone (as agreed) that would almost be justifiable. But it was soon proven to be a big fat lie.

As Fidel Castro pointed out (http://en.cubadebate.cu/reflections-fidel/2011/03/29/natos-fascist-war/) this is fascist war conducted by NATO.

[robbo203]

Damn, I feel like a broken record repeating myself. Instead I will let Punisa describe my position. Emphasis mine.


Yup . So there we have it. You dont particularly like the Gaddafi's policies but when push comes to shove your support goes to the side of his army. You will support the capitalist dictatorship headed by a billionaire scumbag with reservations but you will support it nevertheless.

How does it feel to be a class traitor?

[Threetune]

It is because our world communist movement failed the planet (under pressure from imperialism etc and gave way to revisionism) that the national bourgeoisie in all its local forms religious and secular, are able to fill the gap in leadership in the anti-imperialist struggles.

The only way to resolve this is for communism to grapple will its own theoretical weaknesses and mistakes to become the better anti-imperialist force again as exampled by the Leninist tradition before being undermined by mainly farcical notions of “peaceful coexistence” with imperialism.

National liberation struggles, whether they are lead by hill fighters, militant trades unionists or army officers etc – no matter how courageous, skilful and inspiring they are, will never get the better of imperialism without the Leninist theory of the dictatorship of the proletariat.

That’s the main criticism of Gadaffi and all the other anti-imperialists, not all the sneering, carping, and demonising favoured by the Reformists, Trotskyists and Anarchists nor the pointless “Victory to Gadaffi” type posturing from some communists. We understand these events and movements better by facing up to and correcting the revisionism in our own ranks.

[Qayin]

Yeah correcting the party line thats whats going to bring us out of the internet

[Threetune]

Yeah correcting the party line thats whats going to bring us out of the internet

And your point is?

[Rakhmetov]

Gaddafi is distributing arms to the people???

Excellent ... Excellent ... Excellent!!!!!

Another Iraq/Vietnam scenario for the U.S. and its allies. :thumbup1:

[RadioRaheem84]

Yup . So there we have it. You dont particularly like the Gaddafi's policies but when push comes to shove your support goes to the side of his army. You will support the capitalist dictatorship headed by a billionaire scumbag with reservations but you will support it nevertheless.

How does it feel to be a class traitor?

If you haven't noticed, NATO is hovering over them and an independent force would not be able to keep them back.

The whole point is to support the Libyan people's fight against a possible NATO invasion.

I don't understand what other option there is in this situation?

Instead of being so fucking idealist and naive, you would be able to see the real options workers have here. Instead it's all about a "principled" stand of not supporting dictatorship.

God, the idiotic BS you can come up with nauseating.

[chegitz guevara]

The people of Iraq were armed under Hussein. It's well known that Qaddafi is supported by a section of the population. It's not as if Qaddafi is handing out arms to everyone. I'm certain that the people who are getting guns have been vetted, at least somewhat. (You like Qaddafi? ... No! *BANG* ... What about you? ... uhm, yes? ... Great, here's your AK!) ;)

However, it does undermine the point that some people have made, that he is thoroughly hated. It shows that the situation in Libya is far more complex than some want to portray it.

[Robespierre Richard]

The people of Iraq were armed under Hussein. It's well known that Qaddafi is supported by a section of the population. It's not as if Qaddafi is handing out arms to everyone. I'm certain that the people who are getting guns have been vetted, at least somewhat. (You like Qaddafi? ... No! *BANG* ... What about you? ... uhm, yes? ... Great, here's your AK!) ;)

That's probably exactly how it happens, too. :(

[RadioRaheem84]

That's probably exactly how it happens, too. :(

One would figure there would be reports about something like that happening.

Secondly, wouldn't someone just lie about supporting Gaddafi and take the gun?

Who's going to be stupid enough to say, "no I don't support him, I support the rebels, now give me the gun".

[Luís Henrique]

Gaddafi is distributing arms to the people???

More probably he is distributing civilian clothes to his soldiers.

If he would actually distribute arms to the Tripolitan populace, his rule would end in less than a week.

Whatever happened to his "peaceful march towards Benghazi"? Whatever happened to his "quit Misrata and allow the tribesmen to deal with the rebels"?

The guy is still a troll, remind it.

Luís Henrique

[black magick hustla]

the western stalinist crowd doing pr work for aging despots who would have thought

[Threetune]

More probably he is distributing civilian clothes to his soldiers.

If he would actually distribute arms to the Tripolitan populace, his rule would end in less than a week.

Whatever happened to his "peaceful march towards Benghazi"? Whatever happened to his "quit Misrata and allow the tribesmen to deal with the rebels"?

The guy is still a troll, remind it.

Luís Henrique


More guesswork and bitter bile from a disappointed ‘left’ pundit. He’s seen the film of Bengasi youth supporting Gadaffi, but still can’t find the phantom “progressive” factions among the reactionary rebs. So all we get is another bit of daft invented sneering rumour mongering “More probably he is distributing civilian clothes to his soldiers.” Pathetic, but an early indication of the problems ahead for all reactionary sentiment.

[Sword and Shield]

Whatever happened to his "peaceful march towards Benghazi"?

The unarmed marchers got violently attacked by Libyan rebels.