Happy Easter- Buona Pasqua!

[ComradeMan]

Happy Easter to all at RevLeft.


MkrAqsgLAV8

[Sadena Meti]

Light a candle for the pagan goddess Ēostre.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Ostara_by_Johannes_Gehrts.jpg/405px-Ostara_by_Johannes_Gehrts.jpg

[hatzel]

Just to get multi-faith about it:

http://www.ashersarlin.com/cartoons/passover.gif

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

i got given an easter egg early. it didn't taste so great and probably cost about 10 quid, what a rip off.

[ComradeMan]

Well, I did wish Happy Easter to ALL- so even if you are not a believer in Easter- have a good holiday/festival all the same!

[GallowsBird]

Light a candle for the pagan goddess Ēostre.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Ostara_by_Johannes_Gehrts.jpg/405px-Ostara_by_Johannes_Gehrts.jpg



Yes, indeed. I'm glad someone has mentioned the lady herself.

Incidentally, "Ēostre" is the Northumbrian form of the name as most Old English dialects would spell it as Ēastre. The Northumbrian form however has become the most commonly known Old English form of the name as it was the one recorded by the great historian and scientist (as well as monk, obviously) Bede (pronounced "BEH-DEH" not "BEED") in his writings (he was a Northumbrian from Jarrow). Ôstarâ is the Old High German form.

Some Christians have tried to claim that Bede was lying (which he has no reason to do as he was a Christian Monk) and that this wasn't a goddess but such a view is highly unlikely. Her name probably comes from "East" and refers to the morning sun.

[Bud Struggle]

Well, I did wish Happy Easter to ALL- so even if you are not a believer in Easter- have a good holiday/festival all the same!

Happt Easter to you, too and a blessed Passover also.

[Rooster]

Happy Zombie Jesus Day!

[Dragovich]

I thought it's still early for Easter? :confused:

Isn't it Good Friday today or at least it's still is where I'm living in.

[Astarte]

"Ēostre" sounds a lot like my name sake, which was based on Ishtar ... even Easter eggs come from the Babylonian new years festival ... on the Vernal Equinox they would parade a large faberge egg through the Ishtar gates before the King would ceremonially be married to most likely some priestess playing the role of Ishtar - this was the "Sacred Marriage", symbolizing the union between Ishtar and Dumuzi the shepherd God who was rescued from the underworld by Ishtar - this was the purpose of her descent and ascent to and from the underworld (death/resurrection) a well known Sumero-Babylonian myth. So, the couple are associated with the theme of death and resurrection. It is more a Vernal Equinox/new year holiday; Easter, especially in terms of the symbolism involved.

[Sadena Meti]

"Ēostre" sounds a lot like my name sake, which was based on Ishtar ... even Easter eggs come from the Babylonian new years festival
Ēostre has the power to change herself into a rabbit and lay eggs. Eggs were for fertility, rabbits were for shagging.

[El Chuncho]

Some Christians have tried to claim that Bede was lying (which he has no reason to do as he was a Christian Monk) and that this wasn't a goddess but such a view is highly unlikely. Her name probably comes from "East" and refers to the morning sun.

If my memory serves, didn't Jacob Grimm find continental evidence for ''Easter'' too?

As for the connection between Easter, Eostre, Eastre and Astarte/Ishtar? That is etymologically unlikely, and either based on Neo-Pagan beliefs or a coincidence. I have found no real evidence that Babylonians ever used ''Easter eggs'', however, the Indo-Aryan Zoroastrians did, in their celebration of Nowrooz. But the egg symbolizing ''new life'' is universal, so Easter eggs were likely a European tradition anyway (and it means that the Babylonians may have had painted eggs, though there are no good sources that state this).

Anyway, Happy Easter to all you Germanic heathens, Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists (in it for the culture!) who celebrate it! And have a nice day to all you hard-line Atheists who don't!

[Sadena Meti]

Anyway, Happy Easter to all you Germanic heathens, Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists (in it for the culture!) who celebrate it! And have a nice day to all you hard-line Atheists who don't!

Fuck culture, I'm in it for the candy. Get me some Peeps and Cadbury Eggs! Oh, and those chocolate covered peanut butter eggs too. And a chocolate bunny for good measure so I can dismember it cruelly with my teeth!

[El Chuncho]

Ah, I have never had, nor seen, those chocolate-covered peanut butter eggs. I have the depressing feeling that they are only available outside the UK. :crying:

[Sadena Meti]

Ah, I have never had, nor seen, those chocolate-covered peanut butter eggs. I have the depressing feeling that they are only available outside the UK. :crying:
They're like two Reeses peanut butter cups put together. And it's that sugary peanut butter.

[Rooster]

Ah, I have never had, nor seen, those chocolate-covered peanut butter eggs. I have the depressing feeling that they are only available outside the UK. :crying:

You can get them in the UK. They're awesome.

[Astarte]

If my memory serves, didn't Jacob Grimm find continental evidence for ''Easter'' too?

As for the connection between Easter, Eostre, Eastre and Astarte/Ishtar? That is etymologically unlikely, and either based on Neo-Pagan beliefs or a coincidence. I have found no real evidence that Babylonians ever used ''Easter eggs'', however, the Indo-Aryan Zoroastrians did, in their celebration of Nowrooz. But the egg symbolizing ''new life'' is universal, so Easter eggs were likely a European tradition anyway (and it means that the Babylonians may have had painted eggs, though there are no good sources that state this).

Anyway, Happy Easter to all you Germanic heathens, Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists (in it for the culture!) who celebrate it! And have a nice day to all you hard-line Atheists who don't!

It is an established fact of the study of the ancient Near East that a large egg played a center role on the Sacred Marriage/ Vernal Equinox new years festival. It was brought in to the city from a boat on the Euphrates and then paraded through the city and under the gates of Ishtar. The etymological link between Eostre/Astarte/Ishtar is pretty clear and obvious. Astarte was the Phoenician adaption of Ishtar... as Aphrodite was the Greek adaption of Astarte.

[Zhu Bailan]

The german leftists celebrate Easter since 50 years with a great and anti-war and anti-nuke-rally (http://www.alster-blog.de/politik/demonstration/ostermarsch-2011/) about three days similar to the british Aldermaston Marches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldermaston_Marches).

[StoneFrog]

Ah, I have never had, nor seen, those chocolate-covered peanut butter eggs. I have the depressing feeling that they are only available outside the UK. :crying:

Yeah North Americans seem to have a fetish for peanut butter and chocolate things. I've had one while i was in Canada, not so nice imo but other people go crazy for them. In England i don't see so much of the peanut butter things.

[Le Libérer]

Hum... help me out the word Easter and Passover is the same here. How would you say Passover in proper french?

Anyway, Bonne Pâque, y'all!

[hatzel]

How would you say Passover in proper french?La pâque juive. No kidding. Absolute scandal. Fuck 'em! :cursing:

[El Chuncho]

It is an established fact of the study of the ancient Near East that a large egg played a center role on the Sacred Marriage/ Vernal Equinox new years festival. It was brought in to the city from a boat on the Euphrates and then paraded through the city and under the gates of Ishtar.

So where is your legitimate source? It certainly is not an establish fact as no Assyriology I have known has mention this fact. Even so, I said that it is likely that eggs played an important part of at least one ceremony dedicated to a god or goddess of Babylon.

And which sacred marriage are we talking about? Certainly not one connected to Ishtar, unless you mean her love for the doomed Tammuz?

But you mean Innana, I think, who is the Sumerian counterpart of the Akkadian Ishtar, though their stories do differ considerable, and their names are not related; Inanna is a contraction of ''Nin anna'' (Sumerian ''Nin'', ''heavens'', and ''An'', ''queen''). Her lover, and parallel to Tammuz, was Dumuzid, her lover. Kings were given to her as lovers in place of Dumuzid, in what people call a ''sacred marriage'', however, Inanna was not the goddess of marriage, only love in the form of extramarital affairs (which is why some believe that sacred prostitution was performed in her honour).


The etymological link between Eostre/Astarte/Ishtar is pretty clear and obvious. Astarte was the Phoenician adaption of Ishtar... as Aphrodite was the Greek adaption of Astarte.

Sorry, you are wrong. The word Eostre/Eastre/Easter comes from Proto-Germanic ''austro'' (ultimately from Proto-I-E ''(h)ausos''), ''shining'', whereas ''Ishtar'' comes from Akkadian and is a cognate of ''Astarte'', a Greek transliteration of ''Athtart'' (Ugarit) or '''shtrt'', which may mean ''she which comes at the dusk''. Though some believe that Aphrodite (which might really be from aphros ''foam'' and deatai, ''shines'') is a borrowing from Semitic, and the Greeks connected her to Astarte, but the names are not cognates nor is the goddess a borrowing from Semitic. It is just New Age, Neo-Pagan nonsense. You might as well claim that the Hindu Ishta-Deva is from the name of the goddess, however the name derives from Sanskrit ''ishta'', ''favoured'', and ''deva'', ''deity'', and merely denotes the favourite deity of the worshiper.

[Le Libérer]

La pâque juive. No kidding. Absolute scandal. Fuck 'em! :cursing:

Ah so the Christians stole the word from the Jews?

[hatzel]

Ah so the Christians stole the word from the Jews?Mais oui! I mean, the â in pâque used to be written -as-. So that P-S-Q...quite similar to that other three-consonant root we know so well, P-S-CH :)

[Agent Ducky]

Fuck culture, I'm in it for the candy. Get me some Peeps and Cadbury Eggs! Oh, and those chocolate covered peanut butter eggs too. And a chocolate bunny for good measure so I can dismember it cruelly with my teeth!

Yeah! CANDY! NOM! :D

That's the best reason for everything.

[Le Libérer]

Mais oui! I mean, the â in pâque used to be written -as-. So that P-S-Q...quite similar to that other three-consonant root we know so well, P-S-CH :)

Those bastards! They are always stealing our stuff. First our holidays, then making it where we cant get into our heaven without their Savior.

Whats next ffs?!?!? ;)

[Sadena Meti]

Another Ēostre picture, this one complete with colored eggs.
http://celebrationgoddess.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/eostre.jpg

[Sadena Meti]

And one with a bunny!!!
http://axismundi.spheresoflight.com.au/content/images/ostara3.jpg

[SacRedMan]

Happy Easter!!

Gelukkig Pasen!!

Joyeuses Pâques!!

Yesterday we cought a wild bunny wich my cat was hunting on, and it had wounds, but now it's all okay :P coincidental 3 days before Easter O_o

[Astarte]

And which sacred marriage are we talking about? Certainly not one connected to Ishtar, unless you mean her love for the doomed Tammuz?

the Sumero-Babylonian New Years festival/ This sacred marriage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieros_gamos#Ancient_Near_East,
see day 10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akitu



But you mean Innana, I think, who is the Sumerian counterpart of the Akkadian Ishtar, though their stories do differ considerable, and their names are not related; Inanna is a contraction of ''Nin anna'' (Sumerian ''Nin'', ''heavens'', and ''An'', ''queen'').

Inanna-Ishtar are not just Sumerian and Akkadian counterparts but were actually reconciled by the state and religious powers of the Akkadian Empire under Sargon and his daughter Enheduanna who he appointed as High Priestess of the Moon god Sin. The idea was to end cultural and religious difference between the Akkadians and the native Sumerians, the reconciliation of Inanna/Ishtar served this purpose.

"The Sumerian poem, The Descent of Innana, which some have claimed Enheduanna had a hand in translating, has the Sumerian goddess descend from the heavens to the underworld to visit her recently-widowed sister Ereshkigal. That the poem presents Inanna-as-Ishtar, Queen of Heaven, rather than a localized deity, reveals the underlying shift in importance from Inanna pre-Enheduanna to Inanna after her priestess had influenced the understanding of this deity. So closely were Inanna and Ishtar interwoven that the poem was famously known as The Descent of Ishtar until the 20th century when archaeological finds unearthed the works in praise of the Sumerian goddess Inanna. Whether Enheduanna actually did translate The Descent of Inanna is unimportant in that her work in shaping the understanding of the goddess (and, by extension, the other gods) would have influenced whoever did bring the Sumerian story of Inanna into Akkadian. In this way, Sargon melded the culture of the conquered with his own, crafting from the two a strong, united Empire. According to historian D. Brendan Nagle, “So successful was Enheduanna in smoothing over the differences between north and south that the king of Sumer continued to appoint his daughter to the position of high priestess of Ur and Uruk long after Sargon’s dynasty disappeared” ( 9)."
http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/190/


Her lover, and parallel to Tammuz, was Dumuzid, her lover. Kings were given to her as lovers in place of Dumuzid, in what people call a ''sacred marriage'', however, Inanna was not the goddess of marriage, only love in the form of extramarital affairs (which is why some believe that sacred prostitution was performed in her honour).

I never said Inanna was the goddess of marriage. She is the goddess of "duality", love and war, the marsh lands (wet/dry), which is why the reed is her symbol, as well as the knot. I am also pretty sure I made this point here, in my original post:


before the King would ceremonially be married to most likely some priestess playing the role of Ishtar - this was the "Sacred Marriage", symbolizing the union between Ishtar and Dumuzi




Sorry, you are wrong. The word Eostre/Eastre/Easter comes from Proto-Germanic ''austro'' (ultimately from Proto-I-E ''(h)ausos''), ''shining'', whereas ''Ishtar'' comes from Akkadian and is a cognate of ''Astarte'', a Greek transliteration of ''Athtart'' (Ugarit) or '''shtrt'', which may mean ''she which comes at the dusk''. Though some believe that Aphrodite (which might really be from aphros ''foam'' and deatai, ''shines'') is a borrowing from Semitic, and the Greeks connected her to Astarte, but the names are not cognates nor is the goddess a borrowing from Semitic. It is just New Age, Neo-Pagan nonsense. You might as well claim that the Hindu Ishta-Deva is from the name of the goddess, however the name derives from Sanskrit ''ishta'', ''favoured'', and ''deva'', ''deity'', and merely denotes the favourite deity of the worshiper.

As far as whatever this is, I found it more denigrating and humiliating than useful. Perhaps I am wrong as to the connection between Eostre and Astarte, can I ask you if you have a source for the "austro" connection?

As far as the big fabrege egg they lead under the Ishtar gate I remember seeing a stone carving of the new years festival and seeing an egg being carried - I will find that piece, also I believe I read it in "Ancient Iraq" by Roux, or one of my ancient mesopotamian history professors definitely said it ... i see from a google search the ishtar/easter connection appears to be co-opted by new-age PB's, thats too bad.

[El Chuncho]

the Sumero-Babylonian New Years festival/ This sacred marriage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieros_gamos#Ancient_Near_East,
see day 10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akitu



From your links:

''Sacred prostitution was common in the Ancient Near East[1] as a form of "Sacred Marriage" or hieros gamos between the king of a Sumerian city-state and the High Priestess of Inanna, the Sumerian goddess of sexual love, fertility, and warfare. Along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers there were many shrines and temples dedicated to Inanna. The temple of Eanna, meaning "house of heaven"[2] in Uruk[3] was the greatest of these. The temple housed priestesses of the goddess. The high priestess would choose for her bed a young man who represented the shepherd Dumuzid, consort of Inanna, in a hieros gamos or sacred marriage, celebrated during the annual Akitu (New Year) ceremony, at the spring Equinox.''

''Her name translates from the Akkadian as `high priestess of An’, the god of the sky or heaven, though the name `An’ could also refer to the moon god Nannar as in the translation, `en-priestess, wife of the god Nannar’ or to the Queen of Heaven, Inanna, a goddes Enheduanna helped `create’.''

''Among these religious appointees the most successful was Enheduanna who, through her poetry, was able to identify the different gods of the differing cultures with one another so strongly that the gentler and more localized Sumerian goddess Inanna came to be identified with the much more violent, volatile and universal Akkadian goddess Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven.''

Note that I mentioned Inanna as a Sumerian goddess with the sacred marriage. I am not sure why you are posting something which confirms my point.

Anyway, Akitu is much like Easter, but the main focus of Akitu hasn't got as much to do with Inanna or Ishtar, but Marduk's defeat of Tiamat, as Marduk was the patron of Babylon. I didn't even have to read your link about Akitu to tell you what it is about, having done extensive notes for a novel based on Nebuchadnezzar (Akkadian Nabukudurriusur).

The Sumerian Akitum may have been dedicated to Inanna, but that doesn't mean that they did any of the things you have claimed in honour of Ishtar in Babylon.



Inanna-Ishtar are not just Sumerian and Akkadian counterparts but were actually reconciled by the state and religious powers of the Akkadian Empire under Sargon and his daughter Enheduanna who he appointed as High Priestess of the Moon god Sin. The idea was to end cultural and religious difference between the Akkadians and the native Sumerians, the reconciliation of Inanna/Ishtar served this purpose.

As I have said, they equated Ishtar with Inanna. I have never said otherwise, but there is no evidence that they preformed the exact same rights for Ishtar in the Akkadian Empire. Rome did the same thing for local deities, as did the Empire of Macedon.


"The Sumerian poem, The Descent of Innana, which some have claimed Enheduanna had a hand in translating, has the Sumerian goddess descend from the heavens to the underworld to visit her recently-widowed sister Ereshkigal. That the poem presents Inanna-as-Ishtar, Queen of Heaven, rather than a localized deity, reveals the underlying shift in importance from Inanna pre-Enheduanna to Inanna after her priestess had influenced the understanding of this deity. So closely were Inanna and Ishtar interwoven that the poem was famously known as The Descent of Ishtar until the 20th century when archaeological finds unearthed the works in praise of the Sumerian goddess Inanna. Whether Enheduanna actually did translate The Descent of Inanna is unimportant in that her work in shaping the understanding of the goddess (and, by extension, the other gods) would have influenced whoever did bring the Sumerian story of Inanna into Akkadian. In this way, Sargon melded the culture of the conquered with his own, crafting from the two a strong, united Empire. According to historian D. Brendan Nagle, “So successful was Enheduanna in smoothing over the differences between north and south that the king of Sumer continued to appoint his daughter to the position of high priestess of Ur and Uruk long after Sargon’s dynasty disappeared” ( 9)."
http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/190/

Proves, my point. I would like to know how ''Easter'' can come from ''Ishtar''.


As far as whatever this is, I found it more denigrating and humiliating than useful. Perhaps I am wrong as to the connection between Eostre and Astarte, can I ask you if you have a source for the "austro" connection?

I am not trying to humiliate you at all, but one of my main areas of study is linguistics, in which I can safely say there is no connection between ''Ishtar'' and ''Easter''. I believe that all languages are connected, but Akkadian is too distant to English for the names to even be cognates.

And you have to admit that most Neo-Pagan scholars are not well-regarded in their field, and they are the ones who connect Ishtar/Easter based on an erroneous view of linguistics. They might believe what they write, but that does not mean that I do not have a right to regard it as nonsense, just as I regard the Biblical story of Genesis as nonsense when taken literally.

It is OK to be a Neo-Pagan and a universalist, but only if genuine scholarship is not flushed down the toilet to fit how they want these ancient religions to be like. A ''Wiccan'' can claim that the word ''Yule'' comes from ''Wheel'' but it doesn't make it true.

I am not against the view that Ishtar had some big egg in her celebration, it seems quite logically, I have just not seen any compelling evidence and cannot see any connection with Ishtar and Eostre in linguistic terms. It is conceivable that many elements of Mesopotamian theology entered a mythology of northern Europe, especially via Greek (which was influenced by, and influenced, Middle-Eastern religions), and the Epic of Gilgamesh contains tropes from religions the world over; though parallelism only implies a connection, which could just be because all humans are related, and thus their languages and religions would be too, rather than a borrowing.

I am not even against the belief that these goddesses are the same, as it were. I am not anti-religion and respect the belief in universalism. This means that Brahman, Woden, Jupiter, El (or YHWH), Tengri could be the same god, if you believe it, and Easter, Ishtar, Cliodhna or Rati are the same goddess. But their is no real connection between these gods based on a study of history and etymology (with the possible exception of Brahman, Woden and Jupiter, due to them being Indo-European*)

My source is Proto-Germanic and Proto-Indo-European (http://www.indo-european.nl/cgi-bin/startq.cgi?flags=endnnnl&root=leiden&basename=\data\ie\pokorny, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokorny_(1959) ), reconstructed languages by professional linguists.


As far as the big fabrege egg they lead under the Ishtar gate I remember seeing a stone carving of the new years festival and seeing an egg being carried - I will find that piece, also I believe I read it in "Ancient Iraq" by Roux, or one of my ancient mesopotamian history professors definitely said it ... i see from a google search the ishtar/easter connection appears to be co-opted by new-age PB's, thats too bad.

I would be interested in seeing it. ;)


*Though etymologically, the Germanic Tiw has a closer connection to Jupiter, and Dyaus Pita has a closer connection than Brahman too, all deriving from the Proto-Indo-European ''Dyeus phater''.

[Sadena Meti]

By the way, the best time to buy Easter candy is tomorrow. Raid the unsold stock at half price.

P.S. A good guy was killed, as they usually are (Ghandi, King, Che, X), but he stayed dead.

P.P.S. More of the Bunny!!!
http://axismundi.spheresoflight.com.au/content/images/ostara3.jpg

And an evil bunny!!!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_c_L6wtZ6XJA/SeFwLe6_RKI/AAAAAAAAAro/-PZwPnaiXRA/s400/Monty_Python_rabbit_03.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/DES/D1209%7EHoly-Grail-Killer-Rabbit-Posters.jpg

[Astarte]

I guess all I was trying to say was that Atiku was a lot like Easter and that Ishtar/Astarte "sounds" a lot like it, strangely, having never heard of Eostre (clearly my own ignorance) but knowing a thing or two of ancient Near Eastern mythology I have always just automatically equated "Ishtar to Easter" - so I just wanted to make it clear than I am no "wiccan" or "neo-pagan" - that is the only way I felt a little smeared, and I had no intention of posting nonsense but rather may be guilty of taking my own intuitions a little too seriously. :closedeyes:

I think the only major difference in the whole conversation was Ishtar/Easter and the Ishtar eggs - which I thought I solved, thinking one was clearly shown on the Warka Vase, they are just offering vessels. I will not lie, I have been out of college for a while now and have not been really keeping my intellectual inventory in the best review and tend to take my own intuitions and fancies too much for "fact". :(

[El Chuncho]

Very noble post, Astarte, and rare online. ;) Sorry for originally thinking that you were a Neo-Pagan.

I hope I can enjoy debating with you in the future.:)

[ComradeMan]

Those bastards! They are always stealing our stuff. First our holidays, then making it where we cant get into our heaven without their Savior.

Whats next ffs?!?!? ;)

Err.... Jesus just happened to be Jewish and the first Christians were a Jewish "sect"... so it's more like two traditions that diverged.

[Sadena Meti]

Err.... Jesus just happened to be Jewish and the first Christians were a Jewish "sect"... so it's more like two traditions that diverged.

The break came in 80 (or was it 70) AD