All u losers who like Immortal technique and only "real hip hop"

[bailey_187]

IV-zibug8L4

this song, made by a XXL freshman cover guy and someone signed to Jay-z's label (oh no, commercial) is nicer than all that underground shit

[Rusty Shackleford]

call me a loser if you want, but hip hop isnt my style, if i do listen to it it has to be lefty or just plain awesome. that being said, i like Immortal technique quite a bit :D

[praxis1966]

If I'm a loser for liking hip hop, then I'm a loser with taste. Rap sucks swine sphincter. Objective fact.

[Pirate Utopian]

lol people who insist on calling it hiphop (because "it's a lifestyle!!!!!!!!" and rap "is something you do, blah blah blah") are boring semantic wannabe KRS-Ones.

Ironically, KRS likes alot of the new rappers. KRS likes Soulja Boy and Lil Wayne.

[Ligeia]

I like both. Commercial and underground stuff. Though I definitely prefer Kanye West over Immortal Technique (as an example).
It's not only about messages, it's also about how you transmit your messages. My opinion.
I can't listen to nice,deep and rich messages wrapped up in music for long if the music doesn't move me. But I can listen to good melodies and beats all day, even if the content isn't (that) revolutionary.

[praxis1966]

lol people who insist on calling it hiphop (because "it's a lifestyle!!!!!!!!" and rap "is something you do, blah blah blah") are boring semantic wannabe KRS-Ones.

Ironically, KRS likes alot of the new rappers. KRS likes Soulja Boy and Lil Wayne.

Meh That doesn't describe me, though. They are stylistically different even if they are akin to one another and I happen to prefer hip-hop. My initial response was just an attempt to equal bailey in ridiculousness and hyperbole.

[twenty percent tip]

fucked that you want to love whats in the package .the last genuine was public enemy

[Stand Your Ground]

I only listen to left rap/hip hop, no sexism, homophobia etc (so no Immortal Technique). It limits what I can listen to but I find myself disgusted if I hear anything I dislike.

That said: Testament >>>> Jay-Z

DlU0gXq11Hk

[Pirate Utopian]

Testament better than Jay-Z? really? :bored:

[L.A.P.]

Meh That doesn't describe me, though. They are stylistically different even if they are akin to one another and I happen to prefer hip-hop. My initial response was just an attempt to equal bailey in ridiculousness and hyperbole.

Wow, I haven't ran into anyone who thinks hip-hop and rap are two different genres since 7th grade. There are several different sub-genres and movements in hip-hop none of which have ever determined a distinction between "hip-hop" and "rap". It's a silly idea.

[Pirate Utopian]

It's not different genres, you'd have to do some serious nitpicking to seperate one from the other.

[L.A.P.]

It's not different genres, you'd have to do some serious nitpicking to seperate one from the other.

Agreed. I think what people would consider "rap" is more Southern Rap (Lil Wayne, T.I., Ludacris, UGK, etc.), Pop Rap of the 2000's (Kanye West, Drake, etc.), some of the more commercial and modern currents of Gangsta Rap (The Game, some early 50 Cent but I would consider him more Mafioso Rap). I think anyone who has a comprehensive understanding of the history of hip-hop would realize that "rap" is just another name for hip-hop not another genre.

[Pirate Utopian]

If The Game came out in the 90s, the "real hiphop heads" would've hailed him alongside Ice Cube and Dre as "real" hiphop. As if fake hiphop exists.

[gorillafuck]

The only argument that I've ever heard that makes any sense about why people should say hip hop instead of rap is that rap can include rap-rock whereas hip-hop can't. But does anyone really care when people call it rap? That's such an insignificant stupid argument.

[JustMovement]

shit its not really either/or is it? i like a bit of both: wu-tang, common (sense), nas are not really underground, but they arent kanye or little wayne (and i dont actually mind them either).

[manic expression]

Rap is just one part of hip hop...

Anyway, I listen to whoever's dope. Sometimes it's commercial sometimes it's not. J Cole is nice...but my favorites right now are Slaughterhouse, Yelawolf and Wale...not "popular" (yet) but not really underground. For the record, the idea that underground or non-famous rappers aren't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptv9WtsXc1A&feature=related) good (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P72CHigolM0) is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZCGroM3zOY&feature=related) just (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0hhwDzkglk) wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewc1hixzYPY). If it's ill it's ill.

[Pretty Flaco]

Immortal Technique can't rap and his beats are lame.

[L.A.P.]

The only hip-hop artists I've really compulsively listened to lately is Odd Future and Immortal Technique, I've stopped listening to heavy metal for a while because nothing interesting has come out at all from it, so it's mainly electronic and dubstep for me. Shit, I just realized how off topic that was.


Immortal Technique can't rap and his beats are lame.

Definitely no.

[praxis1966]

All of you guys saying that they're not different have gotta be hard of hearing or something. Saying that Pharoahe Monch and Dilated Peoples somehow fall into the same genre as E-40 and Lil Wayne is plain fucking ridiculous. That's like saying The Rolling Stones and NOFX belong in the same genre because they play uptempo and use electric guitars. Of course rap can be considered a subgenre of hip hop, but that isn't really descriptive of the current state of things insofar as it doesn't say anything about how the two have evolved into completely different milieus over time. And for what it's worth, I have had the occasion to talk with rap fans who feel the same way.

[727Goon]

lol people who insist on calling it hiphop (because "it's a lifestyle!!!!!!!!" and rap "is something you do, blah blah blah") are boring semantic wannabe KRS-Ones.

Ironically, KRS likes alot of the new rappers. KRS likes Soulja Boy and Lil Wayne.

For real, I love the people who only like old school shit and hate on Soulja Boy cause he doesnt have lyrics, ignoring the fact that the first MCs were just there to yell shit over the beat and get everyone at the party hyped, not fuckin lyrical geniuses.

[727Goon]

Rap is just one part of hip hop...

Maybe in 1988....

[727Goon]

Definitely no.

Hes got the lyrical ability of OJ the Juiceman and tries to use bigger words to sound intellectual but it's pretty hard to pretend to be smart when you think 9/11 was an inside job. And his beats are ridiculously shitty, I could produce better sounding shit on garage band blindfolded with one hand tied behind my back.

[WeAreReborn]

IV-zibug8L4

this song, made by a XXL freshman cover guy and someone signed to Jay-z's label (oh no, commercial) is nicer than all that underground shit
I get not liking Immortal Technique and saying it doesn't matter if it is underground etc. But that rapper is trash. He has no flow and his voice is shit.

[manic expression]

Maybe in 1988....
Don't act like bboys, djs, graf artists don't exist. That's hip hop. If you need more of an explanation, check out what his shirt says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq_vS86I1Ak).


For real, I love the people who only like old school shit and hate on Soulja Boy cause he doesnt have lyrics, ignoring the fact that the first MCs were just there to yell shit over the beat and get everyone at the party hyped, not fuckin lyrical geniuses.
The whole point was to develop from that. Make, create, innovate. If any emcee is saying "well my lyrics aren't good but they aren't that much worse than Kool Herc's"...they're just trying to find excuses for the fact that they're wack emcees by the standards of their time. If you like them you like them and that's cool, but don't pretend they're ill emcees cause they're not.

The thing that's really pathetic is that someone like DMX...who in his day wasn't seen as lyrical, would be seen as a dope lyricist if he came out today. Half the time it's hard to tell the difference between "rap" and "R&B". But it's because right now rappers get famous by getting 13-year olds to do their dance, not by getting respect from their peers. I don't care if a rapper is popular or not, he doesn't get my respect until he earns it.

[bailey_187]

Don't act like bboys, djs, graf artists don't exist. That's hip hop. If you need more of an explanation, check out what his shirt says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq_vS86I1Ak).

.

its nto the same tho

DJ's now just shout over mixtapes or do sets in a club, they not finding break beats no more (not saying they should btw)

they play same role as DJs in most genres now

"bboys" are now teaching break dancing in class rooms. I dont live in america but im pretty sure if i was to go to any major city there i wont see a bunch of kids with a cardboard mat spinning on theyre heads like its Style Wars out here. and tbh, the whole dance thing like lil b's cooking etc is probably more closer to "bboying" then whatever nostalgic loser is still trying to be crazy legs today

and graffiti. damn. it definetly split from hip hop now. in europe most graffiti writers dont listen to hip hop. in london u get lots of writers into Drum and Bass, Dubstep etc. IMO its more of a coincidence that modern graff started in the same place and time as hip hop did. i fucking love graffiti btw.

[Pirate Utopian]

Don't act like bboys, djs, graf artists don't exist. That's hip hop. If you need more of an explanation, check out what his shirt says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq_vS86I1Ak).
That WAS hiphop back in the 80s. Thing is, I dont, nor will I ever, breakdance. I dont like that shit, it looks impressive but it does not interest me and let's face most hiphop fans dont either.

Nobody expects rock musicians to still do the duckwalk or have their hair in a pompadour or else they're not "real rock!!!!!". Things change.

People who make the nonexistant distinction between hiphop and rap, basically put all the shit they like in hiphop and all the shit they dont like in rap.

[bailey_187]

Wow, I haven't ran into anyone who thinks hip-hop and rap are two different genres since 7th grade..

tbh this distinction CAN be made in the UK

we'v had hip hop for like 20 years+ now and theres been a very backpackery hip hop scene thats started that get sthe title of UK Hip Hop. THis includes people like Jehst, Taskforce, Rhyme Asylum (i do rate these guys). Its quite a nerdy scene though, very middle class (obv not all, Taskforce are def not). Its mor eof an closed scene and the average kid on the street wont be into it

Lots of young people were making Grime, Garage etc when this scene was growing up (theres exceptions ofc). Last few years people started to swithc to hip hop more and a new type of UK hip hop has become more popular (with the aid of youtube). This kind of hip hop though is very different from the UK Hip Hop described above, as its less about metaphors and shit and more about guns, drugs etc, so its usualy called Rap or Road Rap (road being the name used in the UK for "street" or ghetto) to make the disctinction. The most obvious example sof this are Giggs, Joe Black, K Koke(who got signed by Jay Z btw), Johnny Gunz. But lots of tracks/songs are made by gangs

ill show u the difference between UK Hip Hop and road rap

"Backpacker" UK Hip Hop
c7qkPrZHZuI
PjeBmYd_nRM
EHEpNcGErDU

Road Rap
QHltAULTj7E
UpqQxklRkHU
3r_eXX6FimA
2xO844ObVSU
sVTck7LsCL4

[bailey_187]

MuT0jzitSeE

[bailey_187]

and then theres also the genre Grime, which is kind of similar but different again

[Hiero]

I have been getting into a lot of Saigon recently. And yeah I first heard of him through the tv show Entourage.

I bought Lupe's latest album and I find it annoying.

The latest hip hop album I bought was Rass Kass' A.D.I.D.A.S (Relaced Version). It is a good album, doesn't try and be to fancy, nice progression of West Coast hip hop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNhvCmWi3VM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl_jxo0HIec

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saigon_(rapper)

http://raskass.bandcamp.com/album/a-d-i-d-a-s

[manic expression]

its nto the same tho

DJ's now just shout over mixtapes or do sets in a club, they not finding break beats no more (not saying they should btw)

they play same role as DJs in most genres now

"bboys" are now teaching break dancing in class rooms. I dont live in america but im pretty sure if i was to go to any major city there i wont see a bunch of kids with a cardboard mat spinning on theyre heads like its Style Wars out here. and tbh, the whole dance thing like lil b's cooking etc is probably more closer to "bboying" then whatever nostalgic loser is still trying to be crazy legs today

and graffiti. damn. it definetly split from hip hop now. in europe most graffiti writers dont listen to hip hop. in london u get lots of writers into Drum and Bass, Dubstep etc. IMO its more of a coincidence that modern graff started in the same place and time as hip hop did. i fucking love graffiti btw.
It's not "the same" but it's the same culture, it's the same origin and it's the same set of artforms that are collectively known as hip hop. Jazz music isn't jazz dance, but they're both jazz.

DJs definitely find breakbeats nowadays. I remember a few years back when DJ Skeme Richards first broke out this old ass song no one heard of called "You're Hip Miss Pastor" or something...it was wild. Digging is always going to be a part of DJing. Go to a bboy jam and you'll see it one way or the other.

Most bboys have nothing to do with dance schools or "classes". If anything they might use local studios for the floor but that's it. Most bboys practice and then battle in their local/national maybe international scenes. And no one does it on cardboard...you only did that if you were too broke to afford anything else. By the way, you obviously don't know anything about the scene, because it's not nostalgia, it's right now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TjAEAU1fts). Young bboys aren't dreaming of being like Crazy Legs, they're dreaming of being like the next Taisuke, the next Thesis, the next Lilou (the airflare didn't even exist when Crazy Legs was around and now it's done so much it's a basic power move). Bboys are getting paid and flown around the world to do their thing. Educate yourself before talking shit.

Most graffiti artists back when hip hop was first starting out listened more to rock than anything else. It's still a part of hip hop...the origins of graffiti, breaking, rapping and DJing are all interconnected, and I promise if there's a scene of graf artists in a city there's probably going to be the others too.


That WAS hiphop back in the 80s. Thing is, I dont, nor will I ever, breakdance. I dont like that shit, it looks impressive but it does not interest me and let's face most hiphop fans dont either.
So what? I don't, nor will I ever rap (OK, I'll admit I bust stupid freestyles for fun, but you know what I mean) or beatbox or DJ or produce. That doesn't mean it's not part of hip hop. It's 100% cool that bboying doesn't interest you, I'm not saying you have to know the difference between a cc and a kick-out to be "real hip hop"...all I'm saying is that it's part of hip hop and always will be. Respect and recognition is enough.

If you really want to get deeper into the subject, you can make a lot of parallels between the attitude, approach and expression of rap and bboying. Just like you can see parallels between jazz improvisation and tapdancing, rapping and bboying are sister artforms. That's why emcee battles and bboy battles have essentially the same dynamics and energy.

But real talk (and this isn't at you), a bunch of rap fanboys telling bboys they're "losers"...:lol: they're stepping into a world they don't know shit about. They can swing from Soulja Boy's nuts all day long, bboys are gonna hold it down and get respect...that right there is something they'll never understand.


Nobody expects rock musicians to still do the duckwalk or have their hair in a pompadour or else they're not "real rock!!!!!". Things change.
That's ironic cause the one thing bboys DON'T want is to go back to the 80's. That whole era is seen universally among bboys as the near-death of the artform. It took a long time for breaking to recover from the exploitation of the 80's, but now it's back getting play in the mainstream on its own terms.


People who make the nonexistant distinction between hiphop and rap, basically put all the shit they like in hiphop and all the shit they dont like in rap.Agreed.

[Pirate Utopian]

I'm not saying bboys are losers, it's not my thing but I see they have a skill and if they fun doing it more power to them.

But is it still "a part of hiphop" just because it was so in the beginning of hiphop? Most fans of the music don't care for breakdancing, but they like the stanky legg or Lil B's cooking dance.

As for them being all connected. Meh. I bet in any city you can find rappers they're will also be a punk band or a house DJ, does that mean that house, punk and hiphop are all connected as well? It just means they're widespread. The "four elements" have kinda gone their seperate way, they reach popularity not by working together but by specializing their own unique thing they're doing.

[Ligeia]

Young bboys aren't dreaming of being like Crazy Legs, they're dreaming of being like the next Taisuke, the next Thesis, the next Lilou (the airflare didn't even exist when Crazy Legs was around and now it's done so much it's a basic power move). Bboys are getting paid and flown around the world to do their thing.

Anybody interested in this theme can watch this documentary (http://www.revleft.com/vb/QVwkIIbpDls).

[L.A.P.]

Hes got the lyrical ability of OJ the Juiceman and tries to use bigger words to sound intellectual but it's pretty hard to pretend to be smart when you think 9/11 was an inside job. And his beats are ridiculously shitty, I could produce better sounding shit on garage band blindfolded with one hand tied behind my back.

He doesn't think 9/11 was an inside job and I wouldn't say the beats were bad just because it wasn't a shitty catchy beat with tons of overproduction and glossy sound. He definitely has far better lyrical ability than OJ the Juiceman.

[L.A.P.]

All of you guys saying that they're not different have gotta be hard of hearing or something.

No, we just understand the history and musical currents in hip-hop enough to know that this is complete bullshit.


Saying that Pharoahe Monch and Dilated Peoples somehow fall into the same genre as E-40 and Lil Wayne is plain fucking ridiculous.

-E-40 is Hyphy
-Lil Wayne is Southern Rap
-Pharoahe Monch and Dilalted Peoples are more leaning towards Alternative Hip-Hop


That's like saying The Rolling Stones and NOFX belong in the same genre because they play uptempo and use electric guitars.

The Rolling Stones came out of the British Invasion so essentially they're just plain Rock while NOFX is Skate Punk and Pop Punk. It's all different types of Rock but it's Rock. How is this statement even relevant to "rap" and "hip-hop"?



Of course rap can be considered a subgenre of hip hop, but that isn't really descriptive of the current state of things insofar as it doesn't say anything about how the two have evolved into completely different milieus over time. And for what it's worth, I have had the occasion to talk with rap fans who feel the same way.

Rap is just another name for Hip-Hop. You're basically just listing all the mainstream artists you don't like as Rap and all your favorite underground artists as Hip-Hop. This is a bullshit way of categorizing subgenres of Hip-Hop and ignorant of the history of how different currents in Hip-Hop came about.

[Pirate Utopian]

The Rolling Stones came out of the British Invasion so essentially they're just plain Rock while NOFX is Skate Punk and Pop Punk. It's all different types of Rock but it's Rock. How is this statement even relevant to "rap" and "hip-hop"?

Yeah really. It wouldve been more comparable if we, for example, said they're was no difference between gangsta rap and crunk. But we said hiphop music and rap music mean the same thing.

It's quite easy to point out the differences between crunk and gangsta rap or punk and British invasion. Try and point how making the distinction between hiphop and rap is anything more than "hiphop is stuff I like" and "rap is stuff I dont like".

[Fawkes]

Hip hop is a broad term used to refer to not only a style of music, but other things as well, just like punk. Black Flag and Souxsie and the Banshees are really different sounding bands, but they're still punk, just like John Holmstrom's cartoons can be classified as punk. Breakdancing and MCing both fall under the category of hip hop, but that doesn't mean the term is any less effective at referring to just a music style. Hip hop is, among other things, a style of music generally characterized by a certain type of vocal delivery, namely: rapping. As a result of this, "rap" is used interchangeably to refer to hip hop. When used in the context of describing musical style, the terms "rap" and "hip hop" mean the same thing. Yeah, Grandmaster Flash and Soulja Boy are really different stylistically, but they still both fall into the realm of hip hop/rap, just like Black Sabbath and Burzum are both metal bands, albeit of very different types.

[bailey_187]

how can Suger Hill Gang and Atmosphere be considered the same genre?

[praxis1966]

No, we just understand the history and musical currents in hip-hop enough to know that this is complete bullshit.

With total disregard for the current state of the art form as a way of trying to legitimize the form of the art you prefer because as rap fans the lot of you seem to think you have something to prove. Trust me, you don't. I don't care for rap, nor most of its subgenres, but that shouldn't be perceived as a threat or a personal insult (which seems to be the way you're taking it).


-E-40 is Hyphy

Hyphy being a derivative of "West Coast" style aka an archetypal "rap" style...


-Lil Wayne is Southern Rap
-Pharoahe Monch and Dilalted Peoples are more leaning towards Alternative Hip-Hop

Oh, I see. So you do draw a distinction between rap and hip hop when it suits your purposes? Interesting...


The Rolling Stones came out of the British Invasion so essentially they're just plain Rock while NOFX is Skate Punk and Pop Punk. It's all different types of Rock but it's Rock. How is this statement even relevant to "rap" and "hip-hop"?

I think you're missing the point. It's called an analogy. What I was trying to say is that The Rolling Stones are what most people would describe as pure Rock and Roll. NOFX is a punk band, regardless of their subgenre within the punk scene. Punk evolved out of Rock and Roll, just as Rap evolved out of Hip Hop... I doubt you'd find any reasonable person who'd classify the two, the Stones and NOFX that is, as members of the same genre.

For the record, the 'British Invasion' label is an arbitrary one given to bands who came from Britain during a certain era and not really descriptive of style and therefore pretty irrelevant, IMO. I mean, seriously. You'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who would compare, say, The Who and The Beatles (also technically British Invasion)... It's one of those labels that doesn't really mean anything, sorta like the so-called "Seattle sound" of the late 80s to mid 90s.

[RNL]

People who make the nonexistant distinction between hiphop and rap, basically put all the shit they like in hiphop and all the shit they dont like in rap.
Yep.

Rap is just the vocal style most associated with hiphop music, and sometimes the terms are used interchangably.

[Stand Your Ground]

Testament better than Jay-Z? really? :bored:
Yes. Testament raps about real working class struggle shit. I don't care if Jay-Z has more money, 'better' lyrics etc. Jay-Z is a sexist, homophobe who only cares about his money.

[black magick hustla]

Jay-Z is a sexist, homophobe

i think some people have a stupid and warped perception of what was hip hop about. hip hop was always "sexist" and "homophobic", some people try to find some "real" hip hop that is pure and progressive but that shit is made up and doesnt exist except in the most backpackers of the backpackers. old hip hop was also sexist as fuck. hip hop has always been about being a man, doesnt matter if it is a man smoking menthols and driving in the silver night while his comrades die in the ghetto, or a man singing about "hoes" and gold grills. the former seems more progressive because its about a poor black man but all that shit is about being a man!!!! stop trying to make hip hop like you!!!!!! stop trying to make hip hop seem progressive! its not!

[black magick hustla]

lol anybody who says bboys and graffiti artists are hip hop is a huge backpacker or lives in the 80s

[RNL]

Haha, I haven't heard the 'backpacker' slur in years.

But that is a gross simplification of hiphop music.

[manic expression]

lol anybody who says bboys and graffiti artists are hip hop is a huge backpacker or lives in the 80s
Why wouldn't they be hip hop? Cause you like jerking more? :laugh: Fanboy.

[black magick hustla]

Why wouldn't they be hip hop? Cause you like jerking more? :laugh: Fanboy.
because bboys and graffiti diverged already from hip hop? where have you been living this last two decades?

[black magick hustla]

its funny how white people expect hip hop to be progressive but they dont make the same comments about pop music or rock music

[RNL]

What's with the wild generalisations?

[manic expression]

I dunno who told you that but bboys and graf never diverged from hip hop. You don't have to run with Rocafella and Young Money to be a part of hip hop. You don't have to get into the Top 40 alongside Lady Gaga. You don't have to interrupt some singer's acceptance speech. You just have to hold it down. That's hip hop.

[L.A.P.]

With total disregard for the current state of the art form as a way of trying to legitimize the form of the art you prefer because as rap fans the lot of you seem to think you have something to prove.

What? The current state of hip-hop music is not that there is "rap" and "hip-hop", I can tell you that much. You could go really in depth about the current state of hip-hop but no where would you find a distinction between the two.


Trust me, you don't. I don't care for rap, nor most of its subgenres, but that shouldn't be perceived as a threat or a personal insult (which seems to be the way you're taking it).

What is "rap" to you anyways?



Hyphy being a derivative of "West Coast" style aka an archetypal "rap" style...

Hyphy is influenced by west coast hip-hop and Electro and in all my reading of hip-hop I've never heard of west coast hip-hop being an archetype for "rap" just being an archetype for gangsta rap. Not to mention regional subgenres are bullshit a lot of times because The Pharcyde and N.W.A. have huge stylistic differences yet come form the same region.


Oh, I see. So you do draw a distinction between rap and hip hop when it suits your purposes? Interesting...

You have honestly forgotten what you are talking about. I'm not making any distinction between hip-hop and rap, i'm just telling the correct subgenres that these artists are under unlike saying "Lil Wayne and E-40 are rap and Pharaohe Monch and Dilated Peoples are hip-hop hurr durr". You probably got confused when I said Gangsta Rap and Alternative Hip-Hop, so I'll say Gangsta Hip-Hop/Rap and Alternative Hip-Hop/Rap so you wont get as easily confused next time.




I think you're missing the point. It's called an analogy.

I think you're missing my point, I'm saying it's a shitty and inconsistent analogy.


just as Rap evolved out of Hip Hop...

I would honestly like for you to give my descriptive history on the time period when rap started to derive from hip-hop because it never happened.



I doubt you'd find any reasonable person who'd classify the two, the Stones and NOFX that is, as members of the same genre.

I think there are plenty of reasonable people who would consider both of the bands Rock but not the same subgenres.


For the record, the 'British Invasion' label is an arbitrary one given to bands who came from Britain during a certain era and not really descriptive of style and therefore pretty irrelevant, IMO.

The British Invasion was different from other musical currents because unlike other musical currents its bands weren't stylistically unified so you are right about that part. However, it's probably more relevant than any other musical current in history despite the fact that there wasn't a distinct style.


I mean, seriously. You'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who would compare, say, The Who and The Beatles (also technically British Invasion)...[/QUOTE]

Agreed.


It's one of those labels that doesn't really mean anything,

It still means something.


sorta like the so-called "Seattle sound" of the late 80s to mid 90s.

The difference is that Grunge did have a distinct style that all the bands somewhat shared so I wouldn't really compare it to the British Invasion.

[Delenda Carthago]

hip hop is nothing else but a way of making music. is the way of dj making music using records. all that other bs came when some jackals smelled money in it. its not a way of life, its not 4 or 5(including...heart!lol)elements or whatever.just a way to make music.not even a music genre.

[Pirate Utopian]

Yes. Testament raps about real working class struggle shit. I don't care if Jay-Z has more money, 'better' lyrics etc. Jay-Z is a sexist, homophobe who only cares about his money.

By that reasoning fucking TVM should be better than Biggie, and TVM is horrible. Like really horrible. Seriously read his blog.

xx1994xx, let it go man, discussion going nowhere.

maldoror is spot on.

[WeAreReborn]

i think some people have a stupid and warped perception of what was hip hop about. hip hop was always "sexist" and "homophobic", some people try to find some "real" hip hop that is pure and progressive but that shit is made up and doesnt exist except in the most backpackers of the backpackers. old hip hop was also sexist as fuck. hip hop has always been about being a man, doesnt matter if it is a man smoking menthols and driving in the silver night while his comrades die in the ghetto, or a man singing about "hoes" and gold grills. the former seems more progressive because its about a poor black man but all that shit is about being a man!!!! stop trying to make hip hop like you!!!!!! stop trying to make hip hop seem progressive! its not!
So then why not try to avoid such hateful and ignorant music? There is good hip hop that isn't sexist or homophobic why ignore it? No one is claiming it is innately progressive but some hip hop artists are. That is a fact. That is all we are claiming.

[Stand Your Ground]

i think some people have a stupid and warped perception of what was hip hop about. hip hop was always "sexist" and "homophobic", some people try to find some "real" hip hop that is pure and progressive but that shit is made up and doesnt exist except in the most backpackers of the backpackers. old hip hop was also sexist as fuck. hip hop has always been about being a man, doesnt matter if it is a man smoking menthols and driving in the silver night while his comrades die in the ghetto, or a man singing about "hoes" and gold grills. the former seems more progressive because its about a poor black man but all that shit is about being a man!!!! stop trying to make hip hop like you!!!!!! stop trying to make hip hop seem progressive! its not!
Hip hop is music. One person saying a sexist line doesn't make every rapper a sexist. If that was true, some could call metal Nazi music because there's Nazi bands. The musician who makes the music makes what it's about. One musician cannot characterize the whole genre. And not all rap is sexist:

S6uyIujFLJQ

[☭The Revolution☭]

Stop hating on each other.

[Decolonize The Left]

There is a simple solution to this problem, a simple question:
UbDFS6cg1AI

If you can kick it, then you're cool. If not, then go listen to some hip hop until you can.

- August

[Pretty Flaco]

christ, revleft is sectarian even when it comes to fucking classifying music.

[Delenda Carthago]

5PsnxDQvQpw

I wonder why this guy isnt on revleft!

[Vendetta]

5PsnxDQvQpw

I wonder why this guy isnt on revleft!

Jon Lajoie is the shit. I like 2 better though.

Anyway, this thread sucks.

[bailey_187]

. And not all rap is sexist:

S6uyIujFLJQ

But this is fucking awful

[Stand Your Ground]

But this is fucking awful
Why? What's wrong with it?

[manic expression]

I wish a motherfucker would...tell me that I ain't hip hop...

-3Xveon2pug

:cool:

[bailey_187]

shit voice, shit flow, shit beat, poor charisma

theres just nothing to it but the different than usual subject matter.

[bailey_187]

I wish a motherfucker would...tell me that I ain't hip hop...

-3Xveon2pug

:cool:

i like yelwolf, not feeling this track though

[manic expression]

;) Yeah maybe some don't love it but to me the rock sample thing is dope. Producers are doing it more and more these days...

Ucs1d7YykFk

You can call me R Kelly now...UR IN TROUBLE! :laugh: Ill. Slaughterhouse is ridiculous.

I want to see other people's picks for best up-and-coming emcees.

[Pretty Flaco]

8UFIYGkROII

[Pirate Utopian]

I like Soulja Boy. His last mixtape, Juice, wasnt all that special but 1UP was great.

[L.A.P.]

I like Soulja Boy. His last mixtape, Juice, wasnt all that special but 1UP was great.

I'm sorry, but this is why I will never take your criticisms of Immortal Technique seriously.

[Tablo]

Not a big fan of Immortal Technique for the sexism and homophobia mainly. I don't have any issues with his sound, but I haven't really listened to enough hip-hop to tell the difference between what is good and what is bad.

[L.A.P.]

Not a big fan of Immortal Technique for the sexism and homophobia mainly.

I wouldn't call him a sexist but you have a valid point about the homophobic remarks, he doesn't do it anymore and you just have to understand that he was young and still had that typical macho young man attitude and doesn't actually hate gays. However, the homophobic remarks are still not justified.

[bailey_187]

immortal technique is for nerds

try sticking that on at a party, u will kill it quick

when lil b gets put on tho, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pirate Utopian]

I love Based God. Did you hear about his new albumtitle "I'm Gay". He actually got deaththreats over that.

Young L, also from The Pack, has IMO released the best mixtape this year so far, called Domo Kun.
o_2iOBpCpR0


I'm sorry, but this is why I will never take your criticisms of Immortal Technique seriously.

Okay... Here's a download link before you completely dismiss 1UP though, really give it a chance:
http://www.mediafire.com/?p4oggxqv4yffhj4

[Vendetta]

immortal technique is for nerds

try sticking that on at a party, u will kill it quick

false

[NoOneIsIllegal]

jtUWyildbik

[NoOneIsIllegal]

CBnbosEgZxc

[L.A.P.]

Okay... Here's a download link before you completely dismiss 1UP though, really give it a chance:
http://www.mediafire.com/?p4oggxqv4yffhj4

I was actually speaking in regards to Soulja Boy, I've never heard of 1UP until now.

[Pirate Utopian]

1UP is a mixtape by Soulja Boy.

[I.O.T.M]

It's all about the grime scene anyway. Have your silly arguments about hip-hop. :tt2:

[L.A.P.]

1UP is a mixtape by Soulja Boy.

I just heard most of the mixtape right now, I have to say it's quite the piece of shit.

wI8_oIqWTos

Yeah it's shit, I'm sorry.

[El Chuncho]

Everyone knows that this is the finest rap record ever produced:

rog8ou-ZepE

Word to your mother! ;)

[bailey_187]

It's all about the grime scene anyway. Have your silly arguments about hip-hop. :tt2:

grimes dead bro

[thriller]

IV-zibug8L4

this song, made by a XXL freshman cover guy and someone signed to Jay-z's label (oh no, commercial) is nicer than all that underground shit

You have bad taste in music. Would you like to improve yourself? Well there are three simple steps.
1. Do not attend the artist aboves concerts.
2. Stop listening to bad music
3. Turn off your radio and television.

In the June issue of Scientific Proof America it was reported that 95% of all radio station in the US and Puerto Rico play bad music regularly.

Please take my advice.

[The Vegan Marxist]

lmfao! This coming from the OP who has an account on the Immortal Technique forum:

http://www.immortaltechnique.co.uk/User-bailey-187

Of course, as do I, but I do like listening to Immortal Technique's music. :thumbup1:

[bailey_187]

lmfao! This coming from the OP who has an account on the Immortal Technique forum:

http://www.immortaltechnique.co.uk/User-bailey-187

Of course, as do I, but I do like listening to Immortal Technique's music. :thumbup1:

i never said i didnt like IT tho, i just hate the caricature of an IT fan

[Vanguard1917]

i think some people have a stupid and warped perception of what was hip hop about.

And both fans and enemies of hip hop music take it far too seriously. Firstly, hip hop is not 'high art'. KRS One and Talib Kweli are not William Shakespeare. On the whole, hip hop music's artistic value is extremely limited. At it's best, it has some ability to observe and lyrically portray reality. But even there, there is characteristically either too much self-absorbed soul searching (e.g. Tupac) or outright political propagandising (however brilliant, as it occassionally is with Dead Prez) for it to have much merit as an art form.

Secondly, most rap music is basically escapist fantasy. The vast majority of hip hop themes simply have nothing to do with reality. Most of the time, they have no more basis in real life than sci-fi or WWE wrestling. That's why people have a tendency, in my experience at least, to grow out of most rap music as they mature. Panicky parents need to realise that. I still love a Mobb Deep classic, say, but with growing intelligence it gets harder and harder to ignore the fact of two men well into their thirties who actually think they're characters out of Scarface.

[Tomhet]

Techiques flow is total bunk and his lyrics leave alot to be desired, def. not a fan..

[L.A.P.]

i never said i didnt like IT tho, i just hate the caricature of an IT fan

Agreed. I could go on for two hours about how I hate the fans of many artists that I listen to.

[black magick hustla]

And both fans and enemies of hip hop music take it far too seriously. Firstly, hip hop is not 'high art'. KRS One and Talib Kweli are not William Shakespeare.

the adorno crowd is invading this thread quick brace for yourselves

[Pirate Utopian]

....

Who wants art? I want music to relax to or go crazy to.
"It's a party, let's play some art by Mozart. *Proceeds to do the cooking dance*"

Who listens to 30 year old rappers on Scarface shit? There's a whole wave of new rappers who are in their late teens/early-till-mid twenties; Waka Flocka, Lil B, Odd Future, etc.

[Vanguard1917]

Who wants art? I want music to relax to or go crazy to.

That's fine. Hence my point about not trying to turn hip hop into something it's not.



There's a whole wave of new rappers who are in their late teens/early-till-mid twenties; Waka Flocka, Lil B...


The point is, you reach a certain stage of mental development when you realise that listening to people go on about how they love "bustin at niggas" and "fucking" other people's "*****es" is no way to spend your free time.

No snobbery, just the way it is. You become an adult and go off music designed for kids.

[Pirate Utopian]

Not me, I'm Peter fucking Pan.

I chef, I chef, I chef, I swag, I swag, I swag.

[bailey_187]

im 19, so listening to Mac Miller talking about partying, getting drunk, girls and snapbacks is the shit for right now

i cant imagine tho compleltly stopping listening to hip hop. i guess i would listen to different types. my dad still likes the 2pac he used to listen to, and listen to the more "grown up" hip hop e.g. common, blackstar, guru. i can see myself like that one day i guess.

at my wedding tho we going to have to throw on wonton soup and get cooking to the based god then wil' out with Hard In the Paint tho

[Vanguard1917]

throw on wonton soup

And how does one reconcile their intelligence, let alone their Marxism, with enjoying lyrics like those below (from the genius who also made Wonton Soup)?



5150, my ***** fuck with me
Damn I look good, nigga swag of the century
Damn I’m iced up and the girls fuck with me
Fuck a ***** face man I’m paying for some pussy
But I’m not no pussy, ***** I’m not a rookie
Nigga I’m swagged up and I’m powered up like Tookie
Don’t gangbang but I fuck the ***** on deuces
Hollywood, sup *****! Fuck you hatin hoes
Riding, do my thang, nigga, 60 for a show
Cause I’m the golden ho
The ***** knows wassup, paying just to fuck
Fucked her in the mouth and fuck her in the butt
Damn I’m swagged up! I’m playing and I’m working
I’m doing dumb shit I would’ve never dreamed of
Scuba diving trips, nigga, selling out arenas
Hoes call my phone I told the *****: “Suck my penis”

[Octavian]

And how does one reconcile their intelligence, let alone their Marxism, with enjoying lyrics like those below (from the genius who also made Wonton Soup)?
He thinks wonton soup was serious. :rolleyes:

[Vanguard1917]

He thinks wonton soup was serious. :rolleyes:

What is it? Cutting-edge satire?

[Pirate Utopian]

Because Lil B slaps. Based music > "grown up hiphop"

[Pirate Utopian]

What is it? Cutting-edge satire?
Dancemusic

[apawllo]

What is it? Cutting-edge satire?

It's ironic in that you have no choice but to question whether or not he's mentally retarded when you listen to it. In other words, perfect music for the full-time hipster/part-time hip-hop fan.

[bailey_187]

i dno, its just fun when its thrown on at a party and everyone starts cooking

its kids music for drunk people

[the last donut of the night]

like i love immortal tech but it's true that you usually find some white kids who defend him like he was some kind of musical martyr. he's not amazing or anything. also, i don't listen to music for its politics, and anyone who does and excludes other tunes just because they don't talk about socialism is (excuse my term) a loser

[black magick hustla]

i like it becauise he hates white people but half his fanbase are white leftist nerdarios

[black magick hustla]

oddfuture is funny because all the stupid white hipsters like them but feminist hipster blogs will always back out from condemning them completely by saying they are cool but should sing about other shit. i never say i like oddfuture irl because i dont wanna be associated with that crowd