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samusaran253
20th April 2011, 16:45
After seeing some people, mostly Europeans, claim that all Americans are stupid because our "education system is worse than North Korea's" and making other baseless claims like that, I've decided to share my own experience with the education system of the United States. After going through America's 13 year system, let me say this, it was easy. I wish I could be one of those people who say that high school (the last 4 years of the education system; the last 6 years, if you count junior high school), but they weren't, in fact I am a much happier person now than I was in high school. By no means am I implying that the American education system is perfect, since no system is entirely perfect, but it's definitely not as bad as the liberal media makes it out to be.

No, I'm not a prodigy or anything, but I went through the education system and it worked fine. I didn't go to some fascist Orwellian high school with metal detectors, school uniforms, strict dress code, drug sniffing dogs, or police everywhere. I also didn't go to a run-down high school with gangs, violence, bullying, or anything like that. I just went to a normal American high school. Please note that I am basing this entire thread upon my personal experience, which was with a high school in a semi-rural area, and by no means represents urban (city) high schools, which are likely gang infested.

I went through the system like everyone else, did my education like everyone else, K-6, 7-8, and 9-12, and I wasn't generally a straight A student, nor did I have perfect behavior. I definitely could have been a straight A student had I applied myself more, but that was not the fault of the education system, that was a fault of my own. I am an extremely intelligent human being, and have been since I was about 13. I can code and design an entire fully functional website in less than an hour, I am informed about almost all political issues and have opinions on them, I study political ideologies and religions in my free time to further my knowledge, I know how the world works both in high school and after it, and I was always a step ahead of most of my peers, and still am today in many cases.

We teach our children and later our teenagers just fine, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Does that mean I want to lessen funding towards education? No, in fact I want to increase funding towards education. I feel as though education is very important for today's young people, but remember, high school is all about learning how to become a productive and social member of society, K-6 on the other hand is all about learning basics such as the English language, science, mathematics, and other core classes. My school district never had the best funding, and in my final year of high school it was/is crumbling now, because of lack of state funding. It has gotten so bad that they had to close down a lot of elementary schools in the area, and merge them with other elementary schools. They're even planning on merging an elementary school with my local junior high school, which many of the locals, myself included, are strongly against.

Now lets get down to the social aspect, high school has virtually no bullying, bullying is something little kids do in the K-6 system, not teenagers. No, I wasn't some popular football playing jock who had a cheerleader girlfriend, in fact, I was the opposite. I was the video game playing geek with practically no friends. Sure, I had some "friends" who I would hang out with at school and talk to online, but like most people, I only had maybe one or two real friends. But even within my own group, I was one of the people who just didn't fit in entirely, despite me being one of the two leaders of the group, and the administrator of the group's official message board. We had cliques, of course, like every high school does, there were the jocks, the emos, the stoners, the cheerleaders, the preps, the band geeks, the goths, us gamers, and all other kinds of cliques, and of course there was also individuality. But cliques are nothing like what Hollywood makes it out to be, everyone gets along with everyone else, and everyone has friends in every group, and all groups peacefully socialize with each other.

There were no gangs, but again, I've never lived in a major city, especially not a poor area of a city. We did have some drugs though, of course there was alcohol and smoking, but never on campus, and those are of course general things teenagers do to rebel (or because they get addicted). There wasn't any peer pressure though, no one ever pressured you into doing drugs, or even really asked you too. Of course, there's the occasional pot, but pretty much no one got into the hard drugs, maybe a few of the stoners did some of the hardcore stuff like meth, but no one I know (aside from one girl, but she graduated a few years before me). Now then, teen sex, sure, there was a lot of that, but most people played it safe and used condoms and/or birth control. There were a handful of pregnancies each year, but they brought that upon themselves. As for fashion, let me say that, like most guys, I'm not very adept when it comes to fashion. I would just wear whatever I felt like, and never got made fun of or singled out too much. Sure, there were the preps who always wore Hollister or the emos who generally wore darker clothing, but it certainly wasn't a fashion contest or anything like that.

I'd say the school system is pretty damn good, if not the best in the world. Sure, after high school, like most people, I missed it, and still do sometimes. I wish I could go back and be 13 again, a teenager, and start my adult/teenage life over. But all-in-all I'm glad of the person I am now, I'm not rich or overly successful yet, but I work hard and I'm getting there, since that's what America is all about, hard-work and making your own future. The school system has already vastly improved, my baby brother learned in 3rd grade what they taught me and everyone else in 5th grade. He was learning multiplication and division in like second grade. So yes, I'm glad our school system is making strides to become better, because our young people are the future of this country. Do I think we need to completely overhaul the school system? No. Do I think we need to take extreme stances like metal detectors, teachers beating students, school uniforms, strict dress codes, search and seizures every 2 hours, drug sniffing dogs, or anything like that? No. But I do think we need to fund education more. Of course, you have to remember that every high school is different, and with that, I bid adieu.

TwoSevensClash
20th April 2011, 16:58
Overhauling won't do any good because an educated population is dangerous to the ruling class. It will never be fixed. Theres a good George Carlin skit were he talks about how it will never get fixed.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
20th April 2011, 17:01
wait what

I don't understand what the point of this is? Did you get angry after reading youtube comments and feel your nationalist spirit insulted when some conservative nutjob said the education was socialist propaganda or did you feel insulted when some elitist liberal said that education was underfunded or what?

It's not our thing to support bourgeois capitalist education systems whose fundamental purpose is to churn out obedient workers for the labour market. You want to preserve this, I take it, you would "have it no other way"?

Lenina Rosenweg
20th April 2011, 17:14
I've seen the US public education system from both sides, as a student and as a teacher. I've also taught in Europe and Asia so I have some basis for comparison. The US educational is famous around the world for being "flakey" and filled with fluff. Most European high school students are doing work at least three years ahead of their US counterparts. European and East Asian students I've known who go to school in the US routinely complain about how ridiculously easy the material is.

I have known US 10th graders who know every detail of Tiger Wood's martial problems or could recite Charlie Sheen's escapades but only have a very vague idea of who Hitler was.

The US public educational system is decentralised with local control, at least on paper. There is a good deal of diversity and the level of resources available differs widely.There's a class based tracking system. Upper middle class schools have much more avalable to them than schools in poor areas and their students "perform better" on the standardised tests.

Things can be different in "liberal" areas but overall US schools are designed to teach conformity and loyalty to the system. This ethos is very deeply ingrained.

Bullying is endemic in US schools and this comes from lack of enforcement of discipline. There are some small grains of truth in what conservatives say. Overall the US educational system is in shambles and needs to be radically redesigned, from the bottom up.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
20th April 2011, 17:15
The US public educational system is decentralised with local control, at least on paper. There is a good deal of diversity and the level of resources available differs widely.There's a class based tracking system. Upper middle class schools have much more avalable to them than schools in poor areas and their students "perform better" on the standardised tests.


The local control is generally reactionary anyway, and the localised funding system is a vile disaster.

However, upon re-reading I got to:


I wish I could go back and be 13 again, a teenager, and start my adult/teenage life over. But all-in-all I'm glad of the person I am now, I'm not rich or overly successful yet, but I work hard and I'm getting there, since that's what America is all about, hard-work and making your own future. I'm fairly sure this is a troll.

Martin Blank
20th April 2011, 20:43
Obvious troll is obvious.

Optiow
20th April 2011, 21:01
Now lets get down to the social aspect, high school has virtually no bullying, bullying is something little kids do in the K-6 system, not teenagers. No, I wasn't some popular football playing jock who had a cheerleader girlfriend, in fact, I was the opposite. I was the video game playing geek with practically no friends. Sure, I had some "friends" who I would hang out with at school and talk to online, but like most people, I only had maybe one or two real friends. But even within my own group, I was one of the people who just didn't fit in entirely, despite me being one of the two leaders of the group, and the administrator of the group's official message board. We had cliques, of course, like every high school does, there were the jocks, the emos, the stoners, the cheerleaders, the preps, the band geeks, the goths, us gamers, and all other kinds of cliques, and of course there was also individuality. But cliques are nothing like what Hollywood makes it out to be, everyone gets along with everyone else, and everyone has friends in every group, and all groups peacefully socialize with each other.

There were no gangs, but again, I've never lived in a major city, especially not a poor area of a city.
The US is leading the world in the amount of bullycides in recent years. From the amount of people who committ suicide and are terrorized by bullies in the US, I would fear to send my child there.

With your gangs comment, I have the measure of you now. You have never been to a poor, ghetto school have you? You've never actually seen the rough part of the US education schools - you have only seen the nice little sanitised schools.

Before you post here again, go to a ghetto school and see what its like. Then lets see how 'factful' your views are on the 'brilliant' US education system.

eric922
21st April 2011, 05:13
No bullying? I was graduated in 2008 and I was bullied nearly every day, so don't tell me bullying doesn't happen.

MarxSchmarx
21st April 2011, 05:57
I will add that I think it is broadly true that America's education system is "fine" in the sense that it more than adequately prepares young people for the majority of new, low-paying mcjobs out there.

Die Neue Zeit
21st April 2011, 06:00
I've seen the US public education system from both sides, as a student and as a teacher. I've also taught in Europe and Asia so I have some basis for comparison. The US educational is famous around the world for being "flakey" and filled with fluff. Most European high school students are doing work at least three years ahead of their US counterparts. European and East Asian students I've known who go to school in the US routinely complain about how ridiculously easy the material is.

On that basis, I actually wonder if on average private education in the US is still "better" than public education in Europe.

Franz Fanonipants
21st April 2011, 14:53
I've taught in Europe and the US.

I by far prefer the pedagogical philiosophy of US schools to European schools, where rote memorization and memorization drills are basically the backbone of pedagogy.

Not that the US is great or anything, but I get the feeling that US schools do have an "intangible" or two working in their favor.

And I did go to a school with gangs (you don't need to be in an urban area to have them), drugs, guns, etc.

Mind, all of this shit is really about pedagogy, not class struggle or etc.

The Red Next Door
21st April 2011, 16:02
The HS i had went to and my sister go to still, is fuck up. If your kid have bad grades and don't improve them. They will kick them out of the school or put them on probation. How can you improve a kid grade, if you are just going to kick them out of school for not improving the amount of time you give them. Plus, when i was at this school, we organized to keep a teacher and programs that were important to students in tact, and they said they will, but guess what, they dismantle them, anyway.

I do not want to go into, but the Fregusion-florrisant district have a long list of sins against the working community students.

In order to keep one superdant, The district gave him a huge bonus that is more than what the teachers and employees of the district make.

Same problems at this community college i go to.

Franz Fanonipants
21st April 2011, 16:56
Honestly, the problems of America's educational system really are problems of capitalism. End thread.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
21st April 2011, 18:20
I've taught in Europe and the US.

I by far prefer the pedagogical philiosophy of US schools to European schools, where rote memorization and memorization drills are basically the backbone of pedagogy.

Not that the US is great or anything, but I get the feeling that US schools do have an "intangible" or two working in their favor.

And I did go to a school with gangs (you don't need to be in an urban area to have them), drugs, guns, etc.

Mind, all of this shit is really about pedagogy, not class struggle or etc.

I think this tend to vary a lot within both the U.S. and Europe, so it would be hard to compare two very diverse universes like that, I never experienced much of memorisation drive in school.

Scary Monster
21st April 2011, 21:08
Schools in the US are fucked up, at least in urban areas, where ive lived all my life. Just like what Red Next Door said- if you dont improve in the amount of time given to you, they just kick you out. Minorities have the worst of it. There's a community center that helps native american youth get their high school diplomas who have been kicked out of school, and there are a LOT of native american kids. The US educational system is pretty pathetic.

Omsk
21st April 2011, 21:15
Schools in the socialist countries were much,much better.No bullying,good discipline,enthusiasm and a lot of work.
Nowadays,its drugs,bullying,picking on weaker kid,fighting.

And another thing - back in Socialism,the teacher was a figure of respect.
Today,rich kids get their parents to attack the teachers if they get bad notes!

And another thing - School uniforms. Back in socialism,everyone had uniform,so the horrible rich/poor system today could not work between the students.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
21st April 2011, 21:25
And another thing - School uniforms. Back in socialism,everyone had uniform,so the horrible rich/poor system today could not work between the students.

School uniforms are not necessarily a solution to that. The British force the parents to pay as far as I understand, and the rich kids get expensive brand suits and still bully poorer students for having less fashionable uniforms bought at some average shop.

I'm only for school uniforms if they are unisex and all have skirts.

RedSonRising
21st April 2011, 21:28
They foster really horrible social hierarchies and encourage a view of history that first what one would like to believe rather than what really goes on and has gone on. Not to mention the fact that a Eurocentric emphasis on the world constantly perpetuates the ignorance of sheltered children and alienates those of color. For those with resources, its a whitewashing of reality, and for those without them, its an oppressive reinforcement of the idea that this society is not for them to succeed. Math, reading levels, language programs, all have scores and advancement rates falling behind Europe, Asia, and even parts of Latin America. The academic elites from the Middle East often embarrass some of my privileged college level peers.

You had a nice time in high school and read up in you're free time. Good for you. But that is not how one goes about analyzing the quality of institutions. Now go read up on why anyone, perhaps someone with a background different than yours, would ever think to complain to this corporate-owned 'liberal media' about our beloved schools in the red white & blue.

Franz Fanonipants
21st April 2011, 21:36
[ridiculous disgusting liberal]b-b-b-b-but charter schools can save us all[/ridiculous disgusting liberal]

The thing is, real talk, public schools are where American Leftists are needed the most.

A.J.
23rd April 2011, 12:18
School uniforms are not necessarily a solution to that. The British force the parents to pay as far as I understand, and the rich kids get expensive brand suits and still bully poorer students for having less fashionable uniforms bought at some average shop.


I think the solution to this is for schools to introduce standard issue uniforms.

L.A.P.
12th May 2011, 23:27
Uniforms? No thank you.

Ocean Seal
12th May 2011, 23:48
After seeing some people, mostly Europeans, claim that all Americans are stupid because our "education system is worse than North Korea's" and making other baseless claims like that,

I'm pretty sure that no one makes these claims :laugh:.


I've decided to share my own experience with the education system of the United States. After going through America's 13 year system, let me say this, it was easy.

The fact that school is easy is not evidence that it is good. In fact it is almost the opposite. It is easy because standards are low and that is because many schools can't raise their standards due to their poor quality. They can't expect more of students who are in environments where being a good student is near impossible.



I wish I could be one of those people who say that high school (the last 4 years of the education system; the last 6 years, if you count junior high school), but they weren't, in fact I am a much happier person now than I was in high school.

?


By no means am I implying that the American education system is perfect, since no system is entirely perfect, but it's definitely not as bad as the liberal media makes it out to be.

Okay now I see where you're coming from...



No, I'm not a prodigy or anything, but I went through the education system and it worked fine. I didn't go to some fascist Orwellian high school with metal detectors, school uniforms, strict dress code, drug sniffing dogs, or police everywhere. I also didn't go to a run-down high school with gangs, violence, bullying, or anything like that.

Hence why you shouldn't speak for the whole system.



I just went to a normal American high school.

Sadly the situation which you described above is normal for many high schools in the inner city.




Please note that I am basing this entire thread upon my personal experience, which was with a high school in a semi-rural area, and by no means represents urban (city) high schools, which are likely gang infested.

You went to a suburban high school not representative of US high schools as a whole.
You can't base such an outrageous claim on your personal case. That would be like testimony from an upper middle class family's son/ daughter saying capitalism isn't that bad. Of course its not that bad for them. It's also not that bad for Bill Gates. But for the half of the world that earns $2 a day its pretty shitty.

Kamos
13th May 2011, 12:19
I'm pretty sure that no one makes these claims :laugh:.

Many people claim "Americans are stupid", in fact. You seen any of those Youtube videos where, in quiz shows, some American thinks that Europe is a country or such? Yep, that's why this belief is actually quite widespread.

Also, "fascist Orwellian". Lol.

bailey_187
13th May 2011, 13:52
School uniforms are not necessarily a solution to that. The British force the parents to pay as far as I understand, and the rich kids get expensive brand suits and still bully poorer students for having less fashionable uniforms bought at some average shop.



its really not like that

the kids that used to be the "bullies" were usually from more working class backgrounds. These kids ran the school, they were the people that were feared.

a pair of black trousers for uniform used to cost like £7 - its kind of hard to tell the different makes. If your parents used to buy you expensive ones, who would notice? No 14/15 year old gives a shit about clothing brands that make trousers.

Bullying never happened because of class. Wearing some worn out grey trousers might get you made fun of, if u were already a bully victim, it wouldnt make you one.

I remember i lent my hoody to one of the "bullies" sister once, forgot about for abit, and one day he started wearing it, but covered in burn marks etc . Everyone knew it was my hoody (i dno if he did lol), but no one would even thought of bullying him for stealing and wearing someone elses hoody because he had no other hoody to wear.

The kids who get bullied were the emo, rock, goth etc kids, who, for the most part were from more middle class backgrounds, by the working class and "lumpen" kids wearing tracksuits

Leonid Brozhnev
13th May 2011, 14:38
I do feel sorry for the kids that have to dress in blazers and ties, the school I went to had a relatively relaxed policy on uniforms... uniform was a black jumper over a red or white polo-shirt, but you could essentially wear what you wanted over the polo-shirt. Only thing they didn't want to see was bright white trainers or Football shirts as they usually caused fights. There was certainly no bullying over uniforms. Actually, there wasn't much bullying at all... or, I may have been ignorant because I didn't get bullied myself.

MattShizzle
13th May 2011, 22:49
The US system is terrible. Especially the fact that poor neighborhoods have really bad schools while wealthy neighborhoods have much better schools (and the wealthy can afford to send their kids to even better private schools.) I also consider requiring uniforms in public schools reactionary.