The next one will be worse

[RGacky3]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/financial-system-riskier-_n_851122.html

Its kind of like a guy got knocked out, and as he's comming back the assualter is walking back with a baseball back.

The economy is'nt really recovering properly, and its gonna crash again, next time is gonna be beyond the great depression. The response to the last crash was a joke.

[SacRedMan]

That will be our revolution or maybe time for a New World Order.

[RGacky3]

If your not building for a revolutoin now, if your not trying to organize and agitate and fight capitalism now, nothings gonna happen when Capitalism collapses, except lots and lots of suffering.

[Bud Struggle]

Well the Fascists are doing a good job of building their Revolution, too. There is no sure outcome to a Revolution. :)

[Sadena Meti]

It seems the right wing always organizes better than the left wing, sadly.

[csquared]

How do we go about organizing? Tell me what to do and I'll do it

[Sadena Meti]

Just try to organize some small left wing rally and you'll see what it's like. Say, an anti-war demonstration. Then compare it to what the Tea Party pulls off.

The left doesn't march in columns, the left doesn't fill stadiums, the left doesn't goosestep (OK, they do in North Korea, but that doesn't change my main point).

The left mills around. The left locks their banners in the car. The left show up late because they didn't account for traffic.

The left also typically doesn't have the money of the right.

[RGacky3]

It seems the right wing always organizes better than the left wing, sadly.

In the US at least, they also have millions apon millions of more money.



How do we go about organizing? Tell me what to do and I'll do it


Join a Union, get active in the union, organize, join community action groups, and so on.

Wisconsin only happened because the unions and grass roots organizations were already strong there.

[csquared]

I'm only 17 there is only so much I can do..I can't join a union, and most of my friends in school do not care about this stuff

[Revolution starts with U]

Just try to organize some small left wing rally and you'll see what it's like. Say, an anti-war demonstration. Then compare it to what the Tea Party pulls off.
John Stewart's rally, the protests in WI, and OH were all bigger than anything the Tea Party has put together. Don't mistake more coverage for more people. Granted, that's not hardcore leftist. But it's far more lefty than the opposition.


The left doesn't march in columns, the left doesn't fill stadiums, the left doesn't goosestep (OK, they do in North Korea, but that doesn't change my main point).
North Korea is a monarchy. It's not leftist.


The left mills around. The left locks their banners in the car. The left show up late because they didn't account for traffic.
That's just trolling. Are you Bud Struggle's ghost account?

[Rooster]

I'm only 17 there is only so much I can do..I can't join a union, and most of my friends in school do not care about this stuff

You could join a youth wing of some socialist party or something. The main thing to do is to agitate by spreading our propaganda.

[csquared]

You could join a youth wing of some socialist party or something. The main thing to do is to agitate by spreading our propaganda.

oh, i spread the propaganda alright

[Arlekino]

Trouble with issues of agitation right wingers don't want to know about socialist ideas. I try all the time and is going to basket my ideas. Even most of don't want know about Politics. Sad but reality is hard job

[Bud Struggle]

I was in the IWW and we protest songs. That was a start.:thumbup1:

[eric922]

Well the Fascists are doing a good job of building their Revolution, too. There is no sure outcome to a Revolution. :)
While you might have a valid point, the fact that you have smile face beside that comment worries me.

[Bud Struggle]

While you might have a valid point, the fact that you have smile face beside that comment worries me.

All I'm saying is don't be too sure of yourself. I'm no Fascist.

[Sadena Meti]

The left mills around. The left locks their banners in the car. The left show up late because they didn't account for traffic.
That's just trolling. Are you Bud Struggle's ghost account?

No this is my experience from half a dozen protests in Milwaukee and Madison.

[Revolution starts with U]

And yet with all the keys being leftin the car, they still seemed to get ahigher turnout than any rally the tea party has ever put together....

[Sadena Meti]

And yet with all the keys being leftin the car, they still seemed to get ahigher turnout than any rally the tea party has ever put together....

Not really. The best turnout was 2000, but that was for the anti-Nazi rally. Usually the turn out has been 10-50.

[Proukunin]

Im starting an organization if anyone is interested in getting active. Youth of Revolutionary Socialists. I have a group here and you can read up on how to join and help in the fight against capitalism. Ik it's a small group but with the help of a couple people we may be able to get it rolling.

That was a response to csquared and anyone who's interested.

[Zapatas Guns]

The economic conditions are fairly ripe. The problem is that the American people still live in invisible cages. Many are still chasing the nonexistent "American Dream". People genuinely believe that if they just work their 9-5 hard enough and get by that everything will be okay.

The economy is not recovering properly?

I would say it is not recovering at all. There are no new jobs. Wages have remained stagnant. People cannot afford health care or gas to put into their cars to get to work. I suppose if you are a banker, finance capitalist, or some asshole on Wall Street things are turning around a little bit but most normal people are hurting. Seems to me capitalism is still in crisis.

[Roman_von_Ungern]

It seems the right wing always organizes better than the left wing, sadly.

That's because the ideology incorporates discipline. ;)

[Revolution starts with U]

Their flight further heightened the drama that has surrounded the Wisconsin statehouse this week. On Wednesday there were an estimated 30,000 peacefully rallying in front of the state capitol building, and on Thursday an estimated 25,000 turned ou
^ From Huffinton Post. Free Republic says the same.

The drama in Wisconsin unfolded in a jam-packed Capitol. Madison police and the State Department of Administration estimated the crowd at 25,000 protesters, the largest number ye
Yahoo news says 25k as well

[Le Socialiste]

John Stewart's rally, the protests in WI, and OH were all bigger than anything the Tea Party has put together. Don't mistake more coverage for more people. Granted, that's not hardcore leftist. But it's far more lefty than the opposition.

Yeah, except Stewart's rally wasn't even remotely leftist. I know you already acknowledge this, but he made his opinion clear regarding serious leftist opposition:



There was also an ugly element to the rally, a deliberate attempt in particular to blackguard and delegitimize any left-wing opposition to the policies of the ruling class. On a number of occasions, Stewart lumped together left-wing opponents of Obama with the extreme right, declaring, “Why would you work with Marxists actively subverting our constitution? Or racists and homophobes who see no one’s humanity but their own?”
The attempt to equate socialists with racists and homophobes is a deliberate attempt to render illegitimate any argument that the political system is dictated by the interests of the corporate and financial elite—a sentiment in fact shared by millions of people.


That's a little disconcerting, if only because I enjoy Jon Stewart's comedy. But the reality is, the man's a diehard liberal/Democrat. He may take a few swipes at them every now and then, but his sympathies are clear.

...

But that isn't the reason for this thread, is it. We're talking about the impending collapse of the U.S. (and possibly global) economy. This isn't surprising at all; the last crisis - and the efforts to contain it while maintaining the same financial deficiencies - has only served to further exacerbate capitalism's inherent instability and cyclical self-destructiveness. The question is, what will come of it? The left really shot itself in the foot (both figuratively and literally) during the Great Depression, while Fascism spread like a cancer throughout Europe and beyond. The left has to organize itself, or else it will endure similar disappointments.

[RGacky3]

I would say it is not recovering at all. There are no new jobs. Wages have remained stagnant. People cannot afford health care or gas to put into their cars to get to work. I suppose if you are a banker, finance capitalist, or some asshole on Wall Street things are turning around a little bit but most normal people are hurting. Seems to me capitalism is still in crisis.

People look to the Stock markets going up as a sign that its recovering, saying that the jobs will come next.

The problem is, if you flood the economy with a stimulus, and costs plummet (lay offs, and so on) of coarse stocks will go up in the short term.

Its like having a hamburger joint and selling 2 of your 3 fryers and sacking 2 chefs and taking a million dollar loan, on paper your profits that quarter are gonna go through the roof, but it does'nt mean your company is doing better.

[RGacky3]

Yeah Jon Steward its a great comedian, but he's basically Obama, a guy who desperately wants to be in the center.

[Bud Struggle]

Yeah Jon Steward its a great comedian, but he's basically Obama, a guy who desperately wants to be in the center.

Because that is where the votes/ratings are. That is where America is.

[Tim Finnegan]

Well the Fascists are doing a good job of building their Revolution, too.
What a profoundly stupid collection of words.

[Dumb]

Because that is where the votes/ratings are. That is where America is.

Nope, that's where America's media and political establishment are located - well, if you mean "center" in American terms, which is mainstream conservative by international standards.

If you look at opinion polling, there's generally a majority in favour of a higher minimum wage, higher taxes on the rich (even a majority of Republicans favour this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-shows-americans-oppose-entitlement-cuts-to-deal-with-debt-problem/2011/04/19/AFoiAH9D_story_1.html)), a public option to provide universal health care, stronger environmental regulation, stronger financial regulation, extended unemployment benefits, along with broad opposition to cutting in Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid, to nuclear power, and education cuts. A March Pew Research poll even found a plurality supporting military spending cuts.

Granted, you can find polling showing that most Americans think of themselves as "conservative" or "conservative-leaning," opposing more government regulation, opposing higher taxes, supporting spending cuts, etc. & so forth. However, notice that the more concrete the questions get, the more liberal the responses get.

Bottom line: poll after poll shows that at the concrete level, most Americans reject right-wing Republican politics, and aren't so wild about centrist notions of "shared sacrifice." If the people wrote a budget, it would lean left.

[Revolution starts with U]

Inb4 Bud Struggle says "it's your fault cuz you're lazy."

[Bud Struggle]

Nope, that's where America's media and political establishment are located - well, if you mean "center" in American terms, which is mainstream conservative by international standards.

If you look at opinion polling, there's generally a majority in favour of a higher minimum wage, higher taxes on the rich (even a majority of Republicans favour this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-shows-americans-oppose-entitlement-cuts-to-deal-with-debt-problem/2011/04/19/AFoiAH9D_story_1.html)), a public option to provide universal health care, stronger environmental regulation, stronger financial regulation, extended unemployment benefits, along with broad opposition to cutting in Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid, to nuclear power, and education cuts. A March Pew Research poll even found a plurality supporting military spending cuts.

Granted, you can find polling showing that most Americans think of themselves as "conservative" or "conservative-leaning," opposing more government regulation, opposing higher taxes, supporting spending cuts, etc. & so forth. However, notice that the more concrete the questions get, the more liberal the responses get.

Bottom line: poll after poll shows that at the concrete level, most Americans reject right-wing Republican politics, and aren't so wild about centrist notions of "shared sacrifice." If the people wrote a budget, it would lean left.

No bottom line is that you can find polls saying just about anything. How you word the poll, who takes the poll, where you take the poll, what was in the news today. And none of that really matters at all.

The only poll that matters is when people go out and vote. Nothing else matters even in the slightest. And the Tea Party was a big hit last time around. That was the poll that "mattered."


What a profoundly stupid collection of words.If you don't think they are out there and are a threat--good for you. I actually don't, but then again I don't think Communists/'Socialists are much of a thread to American Democracy either. This is all hot air.

[Revolution starts with U]

What's my prize? Do I get a cookie now?! :tt1:

You're right that polls are inconclusive. But not irrelevant. What can be derived from just about every public opinion poll (show me one that doesn't show this) is that the more specific the questions get, the more left the answers get.

[Bud Struggle]

What's my prize? Do I get a cookie now?! :tt1:

You're right that polls are inconclusive. But not irrelevant. What can be derived from just about every public opinion poll (show me one that doesn't show this) is that the more specific the questions get, the more left the answers get.

Bacause none of them are actually balanced. "Do you want poor to starve?" NO! then you are a Communist!

Anyway it doesn't matter--the country isn't run on polls--and the Conservatives seem to have the edge these days. Good for them. And when the Liberals have the edge, good for them.

Personally I really don't care all that much.

[Dumb]

No bottom line is that you can find polls saying just about anything. How you word the poll, who takes the poll, where you take the poll, what was in the news today. And none of that really matters at all.

The only poll that matters is when people go out and vote. Nothing else matters even in the slightest. And the Tea Party was a big hit last time around. That was the poll that "mattered."

Most people don't even vote on issues - it's just a matter of "Republicans are in office and things suck, so I'll vote for Obama; now Obama's in office and things still suck, so I'll vote Republican."

More to the point, you're running the risk of confusing electoral results with public opinion without accounting for the effect of institutional factors. My point is that polls show public support amongst the average U.S. citizen for a left-leaning agenda is there - what's not there is the leadership to pursue such an agenda, and that has everything to do with institutional, constitutional, and media factors. But I've already seen from previous experience that you discount all these.

[Revolution starts with U]

Really, you're wasting your finger muscles responding to him

[Dumb]

Really, you're wasting your finger muscles responding to him

I'm not kidding when I say I honestly have nothing better to do.

[Tim Finnegan]

If you don't think they are out there and are a threat--good for you. I actually don't, but then again I don't think Communists/'Socialists are much of a thread to American Democracy either. This is all hot air.

What a profoundly stupid collection of words.
5char

[Bud Struggle]

Most people don't even vote on issues - it's just a matter of "Republicans are in office and things suck, so I'll vote for Obama; now Obama's in office and things still suck, so I'll vote Republican."

More to the point, you're running the risk of confusing electoral results with public opinion without accounting for the effect of institutional factors. My point is that polls show public support amongst the average U.S. citizen for a left-leaning agenda is there - what's not there is the leadership to pursue such an agenda, and that has everything to do with institutional, constitutional, and media factors. But I've already seen from previous experience that you discount all these.

I'm a realist. I discount everything except for results. I really don't care what the excuses people use to explin why they fail--if they do, then they just do. I've been around plenty of successful people and plenty of unsuccessful people over the years and the bottom line is that some get what they want and some don't. Somepeople just make it happen, ut most don't--and if the majority of people in America can't find a way to be successful or to get the government they want, then that's just the way things are. Besides, they still have it pretty good compared to most people in this world.

The people that get what they want aren't the ones that take a poll when Vanity Fair calls them onthe phone--they are the ones that make what they want happen. And good for them.

[Tim Finnegan]

I'm a realist. I discount everything except for results.
What a wonderful blend of pretension and stupidity. I want to print it out and pin it on my wall, it's that close to perfect.

[Bud Struggle]

What a wonderful blend of pretension and stupidity. I want to print it out and pin it on my wall, it's that close to perfect.

OK you are doing an attitude thing. We may chat when you are sober. Later :D

[Ele'ill]

I'm a realist.

lol, no.


I discount everything except for results. I really don't care what the excuses people use to explin why they fail--if they do, then they just do. I've been around plenty of successful people and plenty of unsuccessful people over the years and the bottom line is that some get what they want and some don't. Somepeople just make it happen, ut most don't--and if the majority of people in America can't find a way to be successful or to get the government they want, then that's just the way things are. Besides, they still have it pretty good compared to most people in this world.

I don't know if this is some broken metaphor regarding polls but I tend to think it's an excuse for a broken and exploitive system that aggressively attacks the working class.

[Dumb]

I'm a realist. I discount everything except for results. I really don't care what the excuses people use to explin why they fail--if they do, then they just do. I've been around plenty of successful people and plenty of unsuccessful people over the years and the bottom line is that some get what they want and some don't. Somepeople just make it happen, ut most don't--and if the majority of people in America can't find a way to be successful or to get the government they want, then that's just the way things are. Besides, they still have it pretty good compared to most people in this world.

The people that get what they want aren't the ones that take a poll when Vanity Fair calls them onthe phone--they are the ones that make what they want happen. And good for them.

Then I'm guessing you probably aren't a Marxist. :lol:

[Revolution starts with U]

]
I'm a realist. I discount everything except for results. I really don't care what the excuses slaves use to explin why they fail--if they do, then they just do. I've been around plenty of owners and plenty of slaves over the years and the bottom line is that the ruling class get what they want and the rest of you don't. Some people put in work and get lucky, others are born with a silver spoon in their mouths, but most are the dregs, and the serfs--and if the majority of people in history can't find a way to be successful or to get the government they want, then that's just the way things are. Besides, the slaves still have it pretty good compared to most people in this world.

The people that get what they want aren't the ones that take a poll when Vanity Fair calls them onthe phone--they are the ones that make what they want happen. They'll kill you for a leg up. And good for them.

This is all true :sleep: