BBC interview of Nick Griffin

[L.A.P.]

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Discuss

[Tim Finnegan]

I do love watching Fat Hitler babble. I mean, he's so clearly trying, y'know? You can tell that he's watched tapes of Blair and Cameron and Clegg over and over again, tried to get the professional charm, the clarity of speech, the good natured facade, but he just can't make it work, because he's a bigoted Nazi fuckhead. And we all know, but he doesn't know we know, because he's a stupid bigoted Nazi fuckhead. And that's just funny to me.

[El Chuncho]

What is there to discuss? Nick Griffin simply has the brain-capacity of a rotten pea.

[Viet Minh]

David cameron supports the far-left, now I've heard it all! :laugh: How Fascist do you actually have to be to think cameron is a commie? :D :D :D

As for the interview, nothing new, its the same old "oh noes poor us everyone so nasty, and picks on us and tells lies!" No, Nick, thats what YOU do!

EDIT: It would be epic if Belgian antifa dressed up as fash, beat him up and told him to go back home! :D

[Invader Zim]

Actually, to the people describing Griffin as stupid you are not only wrong but by holding such an attitude you underestimate him and the BNP. Griffin is no idiot. In fact he is a clever, conniving and dangerous fascist. He has attempted, and in some cases, succeeded in remoddling the BNP steering its image away from its National Front origins and Griffins own Political Soldier past, and providing it with a facade of respectability. His party won 1.9% of the vote in the 2010 general election as opposed to 0.7% in the 2005 election, 0.2% in the 2001 election, 0.1% in the 1997 and 1992 elections and ultimately 0.0001 (or something along those lines) in 1987.

In terms of actual votes:

1987 - 553
1992 - 7,631 (Griffin becomes an activist for the BNP in 1993 and joins in 1995)
1997 - 35,832 (Griffin assumes leadership in 1999)
2001 - 47,129
2005 - 192,745
2010 - 563,743

Griffin and those others who have sought to moderate the parties image have had the rather horrifying effect of being enormously successful turning the BNP into a party which couldn't even get more than a few hundred votes in 1987 into the fifth most popular party in Britain.

So, I reiterate, it isn't wise to underestimate a resurgent BNP or the crypto-fascists like Griffin who have turned the party around.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

that reporter was abysmal, also.

[GallowsBird]

I do agree with the post above somewhat, though I do think Griffin is an idiot, he is just surrounded by idiots who'd vote for him.

I still think the UK will see a fascist party like the BNP taking power to be honest so we shouldn't underestimate them and should stop them. There are a great many perfectly good walls about after all.... one can dream.

[Dimmu]

I actually dont think that he is as stupid as some people are trying to portray him.. I mean he is getting a lot of idiots to vote for him.

Lets not underestimate the far-right movement, thats the fastest way to lose a battle.

[Rooster]

His smug grin at the end of that clip fucking annoys me.


I still think the UK will see a fascist party like the BNP taking power to be honest so we shouldn't underestimate them and should stop them. There are a great many perfectly good walls about after all.

I doubt that the BNP will get close to any kind of electoral success. They will have to conform to the rules of game just like every other party has. Besides, they're just a minority party. Even left groups get more electoral success than the BNP does.

[Manic Impressive]

He's started dyeing his hair, is it just me or does it make him look a little bit middle eastern :p

[Invader Zim]

I doubt that the BNP will get close to any kind of electoral success.

Wrong.

The BNP has elected officals at both the local and European level.


Even left groups get more electoral success than the BNP does.

In terms of British politics they do not.

The three parties with the most votes are, of course, Conservative, Labour and Lib-Dem. Following them the highest voted party was UKIP and fifth was the BNP.

Probably the most successful vaguely "leftwing" party was Green who barely got half the number of votes of the BNP despite fielding nearly as many candidates.

[Viet Minh]

The trends are worrying, but I hope they will hit a peak. I think a lot of people use them as a protest vote, its happened in France with the Front National. With the tories in power there will be a social shift to the left.

[Tim Finnegan]

I still think the UK will see a fascist party like the BNP taking power to be honest so we shouldn't underestimate them and should stop them. There are a great many perfectly good walls about after all.... one can dream.
I'd say you've got that more or less backwards, to be quite honest; the threat posed by far-right parties isn't that they themselves may assume power- they're eccentric cesspools devoid of political savy, and the lack of a powerful workers' movement means that this is not likely to change- but that they drag mainstream political discourse to the right, both in that their extremism makes "centrist" authoritarianism and racism look less dangerous by comparison, and in that it allows the centre-parties to enact authoritarian and racist policies with the excuse of cutting off extremism and responding to the declared needs of a mythical "white working class".

If Britain sees an authoritarian regime, it won't be some blackshirt army marching on London, it'll be one of the established parties- or some close derivative- instituting some "emergency" measures that it never quite gets round to undoing; a Pétain, not a Hitler.


In terms of British politics they do not.

The three parties with the most votes are, of course, Conservative, Labour and Lib-Dem. Following them the highest voted party was UKIP and fifth was the BNP.

Probably the most successful vaguely "leftwing" party was Green who barely got half the number of votes of the BNP despite fielding nearly as many candidates.
This may be some North/South dissonance: in Scotland, neither UKIP nor the BNP have a substantial presence, while the Greens have a respectable showing and even Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee (officially "SSP" and "Solidarity", but let's be honest here) are usually able to match the fash, and tend to outdo them in urban constituencies.

[Tommy4ever]

My great fear is that one of these days the BNP are probably going to get some sort of presence in Parliament. That will give them a major platform from which to project their views out to a greater auidience from a position of respectability. If they can stay in Parliament for an extended period of time then they may well start to grow into a party of some significance.

They will never take power though. I just don't see how that could be logistically possible. Winning as many as say 10 seats in Parliament, on the other hand, would be possible.

[#FF0000]

i had no idea the uaf was so hardcore

they should make t-shirts or somethign that say CLAW HAMMER BOYZ

[ComradeMan]

The fact that assholes like this can even get airtime is a damning condemnation of the ineptness of the Left, our politicians and the general shitness of the world.

[Tommy4ever]

The fact that assholes like this can even get airtime is a damning condemnation of the ineptness of the Left, our politicians and the general shitness of the world.

In the last General election the 'hard left' (basically Left of Labour, discounting the Greens and Sienn Fien) got about 1/10 of the number of votes that the BNP got.

....

....

Why are we so useless? :(

I do understand though that a large number of left wingers probably voted Labour in the hopes of keeping the Tories out. But still ... :/

[Tim Finnegan]

It helps that the limited public presence available to the radical left is currently monopolised by a pack of infantile feuding sects who place more emphasis on competition within the left-fringe than they do with linking up with the left wing of Labour (both in the sense of the party and the voter-base).

[Dimmu]

The fact that assholes like this can even get airtime is a damning condemnation of the ineptness of the Left, our politicians and the general shitness of the world.

Pretty much.. I mean instead of calling every right-winger stupid the left should focus on fighting them. Actions are more worth then words.

[GallowsBird]

Just so it should be noted I don't neccesarily think the BNP will get it but I do think a fascist one will; maybe it will be the Tories finally going all the way.

[Viet Minh]

Pretty much.. I mean instead of calling every right-winger stupid the left should focus on fighting them. Actions are more worth then words.

The big problem for us is the BNP are actually finding the odd genuine issue to pick up on here and there, even if they totally pervert it it makes them seem almost legitimate in the eyes of the uninformed voter. And if its a serious enough issue they pick up support along the way. Its a very difficult tactic to fight against because you can't automatically disagree with everything they say, for instance their opposition to the War in Afghanistan, I think they're the 'biggest' party to vocally call for withdrawing British troops.

[Tim Finnegan]

The big problem for us is the BNP are actually finding the odd genuine issue to pick up on here and there, even if they totally pervert it it makes them seem almost legitimate in the eyes of the uninformed voter. And if its a serious enough issue they pick up support along the way. Its a very difficult tactic to fight against because you can't automatically disagree with everything they say, for instance their opposition to the War in Afghanistan, I think they're the 'biggest' party to vocally call for withdrawing British troops.
What other examples are there? Most of their programs take the form of lower-middle class localism, rather than of issues of concern to the working class on a mass scale.
Even their opposition is the same that is found within anti-war conservatives, i.e. Little Englanders who take the humanitarian rationalisations of the war at face value, and, being racist sociopaths, arguing against it as such. That's an essentially petty bourgeois line with only very limited resonance among the working class, among whom anti-war sentiments are generally rooted in principle or cynicism, rather than lazy racism.

[Viet Minh]

What other examples are there? Most of their programs take the form of lower-middle class localism, rather than of issues of concern to the working class on a mass scale.
Even their opposition is the same that is found within anti-war conservatives, i.e. Little Englanders who take the humanitarian rationalisations of the war at face value, and, being racist sociopaths, arguing against it as such. That's an essentially petty bourgeois line with only very limited resonance among the working class, among whom anti-war sentiments are generally rooted in principle or cynicism, rather than lazy racism.

On the contrary I would guesstimate that the majority of their support comes from the working class, and a huge part of their propaganda lies in the fear-mongering cliche of immigrants 'taking our jobs' whilst at the same time supposedly being only here for benefits. :confused: The anti-war sentiment of the working class is largely the misappropriated tabloid idea that 'Islamic extremists' are to blame for the deaths of thousands of british soldiers, when really they should be questioning why British soldiers were there in the first place.

[A.J.]

Although mainstream bourgeois media outlets such as the BBC may feign dislike and disdain towards the BNP they're very much facilitating it's growth by allowing them any sort of platform.

For fascists it's very much a case of all publicity being good publicity.

[Tommy4ever]

There was an article related to this on the Lenin's Tomb blog:

http://leninology.blogspot.com/

It is more specifically talking about 'Blue Labour' but a large section of it discusses where the likes of the BNP get their support.

[Tim Finnegan]

On the contrary I would guesstimate that the majority of their support comes from the working class...
And you'd be wrong (http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=16518).

The idea of a fascist-leaning "white working class" is a mythology, constructed by middle-class reactionaries to give their bullshit a veneer of populist credibility. While it's certainly true that the far-right will draw some members of the working class into their wake, the ideological core of the movement and the bulk of their active support- and when they remain on the fringe, their support altogether- comes from the middle classes.

[Tommy4ever]

And you'd be wrong (http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=16518).

The idea of a fascist-leaning "white working class" is a mythology, constructed by middle-class reactionaries to give their bullshit a veneer of populist credibility. While it's certainly true that the far-right will draw some members of the working class into their wake, the ideological core of the movement and the bulk of their active support- and when they remain on the fringe, their support altogether- comes from the middle classes.

Do you think the BNP is another one of these parties consisting of an alliance of the Lumpenproletariat and the Petty-Bourgeioise?

Why is it that the Lumpenproletarian class always seems to have such a substantial presence within these far right groups? :/

[Dimmu]

And you'd be wrong (http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=16518).

The idea of a fascist-leaning "white working class" is a mythology, constructed by middle-class reactionaries to give their bullshit a veneer of populist credibility. While it's certainly true that the far-right will draw some members of the working class into their wake, the ideological core of the movement and the bulk of their active support- and when they remain on the fringe, their support altogether- comes from the middle classes.

Yep,
Its a common myth that faschist parties get their support from the working poor.

[Rooster]

Why is it that the Lumpenproletarian class always seems to have such a substantial presence within these far right groups? :/

I dislike using the term lumpen, but I do not think that many lumpenproletariats even vote. They might say they're apart of that group but I don't think they read any of the material or bother to follow them out with of the major news sources. As to why they sympathise with them? Probably because they've been away from work for so long that they are incapable of thinking along class lines, making it easier for racist ideologies and such to penetrate their thick gubbins.