valdek
19th April 2011, 09:20
I'm not so sure whether I should post this in the Palestine section, but I thought considering this is the 'learning section' it may be appropriate.
I've been doing quite well in destroying her propaganda but I need a bit of assistance in rebutting one of her points..
Namely, she says:
"As for the expulsion of Arabs from Israel, approximately 400 000 Arabs were encouraged by their governments to move out of the country so that after Israel was defeated in the 1948-49 war, they would be able to move back in to the “conquered territories”. By contrast, over 800 000 Jews were evicted from Arab countries such as Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Jordan, often with little more than the clothes on their backs and the words “do not return” on their passports. This is another case of the moral equivalence that you apply to the conflict: that the Palestinians have a higher moral standing than the Israelis. In the same vein, neither do the aforementioned countries allow Jews to return to their “homelands”."
"This leads to the next point about rockets and other acts of warfare that the Palestinians hide behind as “freedom fighting”. The distinction here between freedom fighters and terrorists is that freedom fighters target only military installations. Terrorists target both civilian and military alike with little impunity. In addition to this, Palestinian militants use human shields to launch their rockets by firing them from hospitals, schools and storing their weapons under mosques. Many of these “freedom fighters” have killed innocent families and children.
You want proof: Samir Kuntar killed an Israeli family including a four year old child by bashing its head with a rifle. Similarly the killers of an Israeli family in the town of Itamar stabbed a month old baby to death. When Samir Kuntar returned to Lebanon he was treated as a hero, and awarded the state's highest honour. For what? The fact that he murdered an innocent family. Similarly, Palestinian militants recently fired an anti - tank missile at a school bus fatally wounding an Israeli child. In the Sbarro pizza bombing, 15 Israelis, mostly children and an Australian, were killed in 2001. Don't say that these are aimed at the Israeli military machine because that is a lie. Similarly, 8600 rockets have been fired at Sderot and surrounding areas since 2001, DESPITE Israel's offering of a cease fire. In fact, up until the IDF's Cast Lead operation in 2009, a state of ceasefire still existed yet as many as 20 rockets were falling on Sderot, a civilian town, each day causing incalculable psychological harm on its citizens. The inaccuracy of their weapons is no excuse. Palestinian terrorists have targeted schools, hospitals and recently now, school buses. These missiles can be targeted yet Palestinians chose to fire them on Israeli towns and not military installations. The fact that they fire their rockets from schools, hospitals and mosques displays extreme cowardice and extreme breaches of human rights. This is classified as using human shields which is illegal under the UN Charter of Human Rights. In fact, any firing of weapons at the civilian population of a country constitutes an act of war against which the country is entitled to defend itself. This is also the case with Gilad Shalit's capture. The kidnapping of a soldier constitutes an act of war. What the Palestinians will not tell you is that Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah have all effectively declared war on Israel. By denying the fact that Israel has a right to defend itself you are rejecting most humanitarian codes and supporting terrorism in its most cowardly and abhorrent form."
"The condemnations of the UN Human Rights Council are one of the biggest jokes to leave that institution. The Council is comprised of rabidly anti – Israel countries and the constant stream of anti – Israel hate espoused by that organisation is disproportionate to condemnation of any other country on earth. The Goldstone Report (now discredited by the author himself) was aimed at identifying only Israeli war crimes committed in the 2009 war. No mention was made of the above factors including Hamas' persistent rocket strikes which classify as human rights violations even by your standards. If this does not put into perspective the scale of racism that exists in the organisation, then nothing will.
In regards to the “pre – 1967 borders” debate, the following must be said. Resolution 242 stated that the region should be based on “secure and recognised boundaries”. It is clear that these boundaries are neither secure nor recognised. The entire Arab bloc voted against resolution 181 declaring in independent state of Israel. This is not recognition. It is also a proven military fact that pre – 1967 boundaries were not “secure” either. Furthermore, there was no obligation on Israel to withdraw from the so called “occupied territories” before peace occurred. As such, Israel withdrew from the Sinai after the 1979 peace deal with Egypt (the Egyptian signatory was later assassinated for this) an voluntarily withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005 in the hope that this would bring peace. Instead, Israel has now been subjected to violent suicide bombings and rocket attacks, hardly a peaceful gesture. The resolution neither claims that Israeli settlements are illegal nor calls for their uprooting. This resolution was the basis for some semblance of stability between 1967 and 1972. The Palestinians have consistently rejected Israeli offers of peace and have violated agreements such as the Oslo Accords of 1993. Palestinian school children are subjected to violent invocations of jihad by Palestinian TV programs, a direct contravention of the terms. They have used suicide bombers against Israel, also in contravention of the terms. Yasser Arafat himself stated “Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Seas to the Jordan River. We are not concerned with what took place in June 1967 [the Six Day War] or in eliminating the consequences of the June war. The Palestinian revolution's basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”. This is clearly not a desire to create peace.
In conclusion, your arguments are based largely on the concept of moral equivalence, that is that the Palestinians are more moral than Israel, yet you ignore key facts that prove otherwise. You ignore the terrorist attacks that take place on a daily basis in Israel, you ignore the rockets that are still falling on the civilian population of Gaza, you ignore the deprivation of basic human rights to citizens by countries such as Iran and reject the fact that Hamas and Hezbollah have in their charters the destruction of the “Zionist entity”."
Anyone care to rebut these? I will be forever indebted to you (I'm already working on rebutting them myself, but some help would be really useful). :D
I'd also love it if I could get some solid sources on where Israel has prevented food, water, medical and other humanitarian supplies from entering Gaza.
Thanks guys
I've been doing quite well in destroying her propaganda but I need a bit of assistance in rebutting one of her points..
Namely, she says:
"As for the expulsion of Arabs from Israel, approximately 400 000 Arabs were encouraged by their governments to move out of the country so that after Israel was defeated in the 1948-49 war, they would be able to move back in to the “conquered territories”. By contrast, over 800 000 Jews were evicted from Arab countries such as Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Jordan, often with little more than the clothes on their backs and the words “do not return” on their passports. This is another case of the moral equivalence that you apply to the conflict: that the Palestinians have a higher moral standing than the Israelis. In the same vein, neither do the aforementioned countries allow Jews to return to their “homelands”."
"This leads to the next point about rockets and other acts of warfare that the Palestinians hide behind as “freedom fighting”. The distinction here between freedom fighters and terrorists is that freedom fighters target only military installations. Terrorists target both civilian and military alike with little impunity. In addition to this, Palestinian militants use human shields to launch their rockets by firing them from hospitals, schools and storing their weapons under mosques. Many of these “freedom fighters” have killed innocent families and children.
You want proof: Samir Kuntar killed an Israeli family including a four year old child by bashing its head with a rifle. Similarly the killers of an Israeli family in the town of Itamar stabbed a month old baby to death. When Samir Kuntar returned to Lebanon he was treated as a hero, and awarded the state's highest honour. For what? The fact that he murdered an innocent family. Similarly, Palestinian militants recently fired an anti - tank missile at a school bus fatally wounding an Israeli child. In the Sbarro pizza bombing, 15 Israelis, mostly children and an Australian, were killed in 2001. Don't say that these are aimed at the Israeli military machine because that is a lie. Similarly, 8600 rockets have been fired at Sderot and surrounding areas since 2001, DESPITE Israel's offering of a cease fire. In fact, up until the IDF's Cast Lead operation in 2009, a state of ceasefire still existed yet as many as 20 rockets were falling on Sderot, a civilian town, each day causing incalculable psychological harm on its citizens. The inaccuracy of their weapons is no excuse. Palestinian terrorists have targeted schools, hospitals and recently now, school buses. These missiles can be targeted yet Palestinians chose to fire them on Israeli towns and not military installations. The fact that they fire their rockets from schools, hospitals and mosques displays extreme cowardice and extreme breaches of human rights. This is classified as using human shields which is illegal under the UN Charter of Human Rights. In fact, any firing of weapons at the civilian population of a country constitutes an act of war against which the country is entitled to defend itself. This is also the case with Gilad Shalit's capture. The kidnapping of a soldier constitutes an act of war. What the Palestinians will not tell you is that Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah have all effectively declared war on Israel. By denying the fact that Israel has a right to defend itself you are rejecting most humanitarian codes and supporting terrorism in its most cowardly and abhorrent form."
"The condemnations of the UN Human Rights Council are one of the biggest jokes to leave that institution. The Council is comprised of rabidly anti – Israel countries and the constant stream of anti – Israel hate espoused by that organisation is disproportionate to condemnation of any other country on earth. The Goldstone Report (now discredited by the author himself) was aimed at identifying only Israeli war crimes committed in the 2009 war. No mention was made of the above factors including Hamas' persistent rocket strikes which classify as human rights violations even by your standards. If this does not put into perspective the scale of racism that exists in the organisation, then nothing will.
In regards to the “pre – 1967 borders” debate, the following must be said. Resolution 242 stated that the region should be based on “secure and recognised boundaries”. It is clear that these boundaries are neither secure nor recognised. The entire Arab bloc voted against resolution 181 declaring in independent state of Israel. This is not recognition. It is also a proven military fact that pre – 1967 boundaries were not “secure” either. Furthermore, there was no obligation on Israel to withdraw from the so called “occupied territories” before peace occurred. As such, Israel withdrew from the Sinai after the 1979 peace deal with Egypt (the Egyptian signatory was later assassinated for this) an voluntarily withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005 in the hope that this would bring peace. Instead, Israel has now been subjected to violent suicide bombings and rocket attacks, hardly a peaceful gesture. The resolution neither claims that Israeli settlements are illegal nor calls for their uprooting. This resolution was the basis for some semblance of stability between 1967 and 1972. The Palestinians have consistently rejected Israeli offers of peace and have violated agreements such as the Oslo Accords of 1993. Palestinian school children are subjected to violent invocations of jihad by Palestinian TV programs, a direct contravention of the terms. They have used suicide bombers against Israel, also in contravention of the terms. Yasser Arafat himself stated “Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Seas to the Jordan River. We are not concerned with what took place in June 1967 [the Six Day War] or in eliminating the consequences of the June war. The Palestinian revolution's basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it”. This is clearly not a desire to create peace.
In conclusion, your arguments are based largely on the concept of moral equivalence, that is that the Palestinians are more moral than Israel, yet you ignore key facts that prove otherwise. You ignore the terrorist attacks that take place on a daily basis in Israel, you ignore the rockets that are still falling on the civilian population of Gaza, you ignore the deprivation of basic human rights to citizens by countries such as Iran and reject the fact that Hamas and Hezbollah have in their charters the destruction of the “Zionist entity”."
Anyone care to rebut these? I will be forever indebted to you (I'm already working on rebutting them myself, but some help would be really useful). :D
I'd also love it if I could get some solid sources on where Israel has prevented food, water, medical and other humanitarian supplies from entering Gaza.
Thanks guys