Can the Soviet Union come back? [Archive]

SacRedMan

17th April 2011, 15:31

"Those who don't miss the soviet union, have no heart. Those who want it back, have no brain." - Vladimir Putin

"The American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was an experiment that still needs an answer." - George Bush

What do you think? Can the Soviet Union come back if we see how many young Russians come national-communist/bolsheviks? And what happends when it comes back? Or will it lay forever in the grave and let us learn from it?

Tommy4ever

17th April 2011, 15:38

The Soviet Union isn't going to come back. it's not possible. There are some movements in Russia wanting a restoration of the USSR (both left and right wing) but most are pretty small and aren't a big risk to the system.

So no, the USSR isn't going to rise from the grave.

Volcanicity

17th April 2011, 15:43

"The American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was an experiment that still needs an answer." - George Bush

Fixed.

SacRedMan

17th April 2011, 15:45

Fixed.
Sorry, thought it was like the quote in my last post. Thanks :thumbup1:

Crux

17th April 2011, 15:55

Isn't it those who don't miss the soviet union?

Also:U2FpDtqUQIo

SacRedMan

17th April 2011, 15:57

Isn't it those who don't miss the soviet union?

Oh :blushing: thanks for saying ;)

Queercommie Girl

17th April 2011, 16:09

Isn't it those who don't miss the soviet union?

Also:U2FpDtqUQIo

Being a Trotskyist, shouldn't you be somewhat offended at least by that cartoon clip which made fun of Lenin?

I thought the CWI still officially upholds Lenin as a great socialist leader?

SacRedMan

17th April 2011, 16:13

Some people think that Russia is still communist. :laugh:

Delenda Carthago

17th April 2011, 16:20

In Soviet Russia you dont write in revleft. Revleft writes on you.

IndependentCitizen

17th April 2011, 16:25

Soseloshvili

17th April 2011, 16:36

A better question - should the USSR come back?

You're talking about a state which had nothing to do with Lenin's original dream and everything to do with the remnants of a power hungry leader who justified himself with the mantra of "Socialism in One Country".

I think, more than anything, what the former USSR needs is to allow its nationalities to organize themselves into Socialist states. I doubt that the Ukraine, Chechenia and Belarus have any interest in rejoining the ranks of Russia.

So, can it come back? I suppose, it is plausible, there is a strong reminiscence of the Soviet years in the former Soviet states. Should it though? I would say no.

piet11111

17th April 2011, 16:37

pranabjyoti

17th April 2011, 16:59

Trotskyists have not banned humor contrary to popular believes.
Even that means humiliating the ideology and the leader. LONG LIVE POPULISM!

dez

17th April 2011, 17:00

if we see how many young Russians come national-communist/bolsheviks?

If a soviet union comes back, it will be as a fascist state.
Damage is done. The dominance of rightwinged ideals in eastearn europe (with few exceptions) is unquestionable.

Tommy4ever

17th April 2011, 17:28

Has anyone seen the National-Bolshevik flag btw? Some scary shit. It is a carbon copy of the Nazi flag with the Swastika replaced by a hammer and sickle. :crying:

When I first saw it I was just like: ........... fuck

SacRedMan

17th April 2011, 17:38

Agent Ducky

17th April 2011, 17:41

Um, I don't think it can come back. Logistically it doesn't seem possible, even if it's just Russia and not the other states.. And the other question is, do we want the Soviet Union back? I don't think it would be a good thing to have back, because it would be the same state capitalism thing they had before...

Obs

17th April 2011, 17:46

Even that means humiliating the ideology and the leader. LONG LIVE POPULISM!
And you still don't see at all why Marxists-Leninists are often called religious by our opponents?

Robespierre Richard

17th April 2011, 17:59

I think a better question would be, "Would you be willing to fight to restore the Soviet Union?" :thumbup1:

Kamos

17th April 2011, 18:53

It can - but not in the foreseeable future. However, the future is unpredictable, who knows, maybe one day communism will once again "rule" over the lands of Russia.

Nolan

17th April 2011, 19:36

It would require another revolution, obviously. This is a silly question. But "nazbols" will not work to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat. Most of them are third positionists but there is a strong "left" faction. There are better parties in Russia.

Can a socialist America happen?

☭The Revolution☭

17th April 2011, 19:37

I think a better question would be, "Would you be willing to fight to restore the Soviet Union?" :thumbup1:

Absolutely yes.

stella2010

17th April 2011, 19:41

As long as AK - 47 can pack heat under the trenchcoat, then yeah it can.

Make sure you wearing a suit as well comrades. It gets…COLD.

Comrade J

17th April 2011, 20:01

Of course it won't come back.

Also, there is far too much emphasis and nostalgia on the Soviet Union in leftist circles; how can you expect to appear as a modern, strong anti-Capitalist movement that attracts other pissed-off, class-aware people when you're going on about what a great guy Stalin was. Get over it.

And why would you even want the Soviet Union back? Surely you would instead want a communist society, in which the proletariat control and own the means of production. Someone point me to the bit where Marx said that a state-capitalist oligarchy using bastardised Marxist rhetoric and propaganda was the ultimate aim.

Martin Blank

17th April 2011, 21:04

Can't, won't and shouldn't. Anyone who lived through that period of history knows why.

Red Future

17th April 2011, 22:00

rokoko

17th April 2011, 22:02

yes, i wanna see ussr

Sir Comradical

17th April 2011, 22:39

Arlekino

17th April 2011, 23:02

Is pointless to think never Soviet Union come back, if we don't do nothing of course never ever come back. If you talk with older population they almost all want back Soviets, the problem lack of organisations, capitalism and kind of freedom stop it to acheave this.

Rusty Shackleford

18th April 2011, 01:06

no.

human strike

18th April 2011, 01:12

It's not that I don't think Leninists couldn't fuck it up twice given the chance, I'm just not gonna give them a chance.

Fawkes

18th April 2011, 01:14

As long as AK - 47 can pack heat under the trenchcoat, then yeah it can.

Make sure you wearing a suit as well comrades. It gets…COLD.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NURTFz-26UI/TDCwEcDDYMI/AAAAAAAABn4/hYs8B2lc1-w/s1600/double-facepalm-facepalm-stupid-idiot-facepalm-lol-ignorant-demotivational-poster-1228730103.jpg

A better question is why the hell would we want it restored? But no, it won't come back and shouldn't come back.

Optiow

18th April 2011, 02:01

I don't think it can come back, and I don't want it to come back.

Yazman

18th April 2011, 04:46

Being a Trotskyist, shouldn't you be somewhat offended at least by that cartoon clip which made fun of Lenin?

I thought the CWI still officially upholds Lenin as a great socialist leader?

I don't think its "making fun of Lenin." The way you write it makes it seem like they are making jabs at him or something. Its just a silly joke, the idea of a zombie Lenin. Its not offensive and its not casting him in a negative light.

On topic though - I don't think it either could or would come back, and I don't think it would be a good idea to bring it back either. It should remain in the past where it belongs.

Dumb

18th April 2011, 05:53

It was called the Soviet Union because it was originally a union of soviets - though those were in effect dismantled soon after Lenin's death. The soviets aren't coming back; even if Russia restores every other aspect of the post-Lenin USSR, it won't be called as such.

CynicalIdealist

18th April 2011, 06:18

I hate all questions with the word "can" in them, because we all know that strange things have happened on this planet. Of course it "can" come back.

TwoSevensClash

18th April 2011, 07:36

If you can get Belarus, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan
to agree to being under Russian control again then yes the Soviet Union can come back. I can see Belarus agreeing but I don't know enough about the others. So I say no. Also zombie Lenin only eats the brains of the bourgeoisie!

Jose Gracchus

18th April 2011, 07:52

Can't put it better than Uncle Sam. Its a fool's errand to go wishing after the past, and especially when the past at hand is the Soviet Union.

The Vegan Marxist

18th April 2011, 07:59

Can't, won't and shouldn't. Anyone who lived through that period of history knows why.

Oh yeah? Tell that to these people then:

EqEyLaEkJDE

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to bring back what they rightfully attained under the USSR.

As for the National-Bolsheviks, I wouldn't trust them whatsoever. Their ties with Nazism is openly apparent. Even those on Storm Front support them; calling for the merging of the national-socialists, communists, and the monarchists:

http://tinyurl.com/3lz5u5x

So it's pretty clear they don't want Communism, just a popular front to lead them into power, which is the communists.

As for the OP's question, I would say if the USSR did come back, it would need to immediately address all errors that were committed during the original era of the USSR - from Lenin to Gorbachev. But also keep in mind all the success that was achieved during that time and how to correctly apply it to the present conditions.

In my opinion, Socialism should come back to Russia. If that means through the symbol of the Soviet Union, then so be it. But what I stated above must be applied as well for it to be successful.

Martin Blank

18th April 2011, 08:17

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to bring back what they rightfully attained under the USSR.

You can fight for the rule of petty-bourgeois "specialists". I'll fight for workers' control and a workers' republic.

Crux

18th April 2011, 08:42

Even that means humiliating the ideology and the leader. LONG LIVE POPULISM!
Humiliation was when Stalin mummified Lenins corpse.

Queercommie Girl

18th April 2011, 16:10

The answer to the question in this thread: No objectively it is virtually impossible for the Soviet Union to be restored in any literal sense, regardless of whether or not it is desirable normatively speaking to do so.

Lenina Rosenweg

18th April 2011, 16:25

The collapse of the Soviet Union was a vast tragedy, with a massive collapse in living standards, the pauperization of millions of people, and the rule direct or indirect, by a brutal organized crime networks. Having said that though in this period it is not possible or desirable for the USSR to come back.The bureaucratic class that ruled the USSR has been radically transformed and are continuing their rule though a different set of social relations.People who are nostalgic for the fSU (including sometimes myself) should understand the reasons for its collapse.

It is possible, but not highly likely that in the next period a Russia strengthened though the rise in price of it's mineral resources may establish some sort of federation with Kazakhstan, Belarus, and other areas of the "near abroad". They may very well resurect Soviet symbolism but this will be just as capitalist as Putin's Russia is today.

The good things about the fSU were a heritage of "Great October". A recovery of the best in the revolutionary movement and tradition is important for the working class of Russia today, along with a rejection of Putinism, nationalism, and nazbolism.

Queercommie Girl

18th April 2011, 16:30

It's not that I don't think Leninists couldn't fuck it up twice given the chance, I'm just not gonna give them a chance.

Long Live Lenin!

We are prepared to use armed force to defend Leninism.

SacRedMan

18th April 2011, 16:31

The life standard of former USSR countries was decreased with 6years, something that is very extraordinary for developed countries. The use of alcohol by men was also very extraordinary increased. And Russia haves the most suicides in the whole world.

All after the USSR was collapsed!

Dragovich

19th April 2011, 14:02

No. It's not really likely.

Keep that stuff for Tom Clancy thrillers. Though I do admit that the Soviet anthem is rocking.

The Socialist Engineer

19th April 2011, 16:36

Russia doesn't even have a government, unless you can call that hiearchy of gangs and mob bosses a government, than no. The corruption in Russia isn't even something to hide anymore and the people there couldn't be anymore miserable. After the collapse of the Soviet Union the living standard of most people went up materialistically but when horrifically downward in actual happiness. I wonder which mafia has the nuclear missiles.