Do you believe in ghosts?

[ComradeMan]

Do you believe that something paranormal might exist?

If so why?

If not why not?

[Bud Struggle]

Not particularly. But to think there is just the material is closing yourself to a lot of curiosity about what the universe actually contains.

[ComradeMan]

Not particularly. But to think there is just the material is closing yourself to a lot of curiosity about what the universe actually contains.

Go on....?

[Fulanito de Tal]

Not at all. In general, I tend to believe in concepts that have empirical evidence as support.

[Quail]

No, I don't believe in anything that has no basis in logic/reality. Why would I?

[ComradeMan]

No, I don't believe in anything that has no basis in logic/reality. Why would I?

So what is it that people all over the world, since time began, have been "seeing"?

[Octavian]

As most people know ghosts appear in places that someone has died. By this logic hospitals should be fucking spook factories.

[¿Que?]

I live by myself, and today I woke up to the smell of something burning. I thought I left a cigarette lit, but it turned out to be the heater. Somehow, and I still don't know how, it turned on in the middle of the night while I was sleeping. There are only two possible explanations, 1) I turned it on in my sleep (lord knows why) and 2) Secret ninjas came into my room while I was sleeping and turned it on.

Oh yeah, that or ghosts, but I don't believe in ghosts.

EDIT: Here are some songs I posted about it:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2080148#post2080148

[PhoenixAsh]

As most people know ghosts appear in places that someone has died. By this logic hospitals should be fucking spook factories.


They are....have 't you seen all the white coats floating around? ;)



No...but seriously. I have no idea. I believe in energy and energy can change. ever felt a chill fall over a room full of people? Ever felt somebodies anger push you back?

I think the same goes for traumatic events. They can change the energy or feel of a place. Even if somebody does not know about such events taking place.

I however do not believe in physical manifestations of dead people in immages....or that it is possible to converse with the "otherside".

[Robespierre Richard]

No, why would there be ghosts? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[GPDP]

I used to be a big believer in them years ago. I immersed myself into the subject by going to websites, checking books out, watching countless videos and images, etc.

Then I started to actually think instead of letting dubious evidence get the best of me.

Ghosts are excellent proof of the brimming potential for imagination the human mind possesses, but have no real material basis in reality otherwise.

[Che a chara]

I'm sure there has been atheists who have experienced some sort of paranormal/unexplained activity. What would this be in evidence of ?

I haven't had any such experience, but I'm sure the majority of us sometimes have observed some sort of 'sixth-sense' experience.

But then watching such tripe like Most Haunted and Ghost Hunters which makes a complete mockery of believing in ghosts would make a lot of skeptical/undecided folks non-believers.

no, but i'm open minded.

[Decolonize The Left]

No.

Ghosts, like fairies, spirits, gods, etc... are all anthropomorphisms. Humans cannot understand phenomena and so give natural material happenings human characteristics - such as a "will." It results from language and the ability to attribute a subject to a non-human thing. This isn't to say that crazy shit doesn't happen - it does. But it is to say that there aren't any weird metaphysical/spiritual beings out there doing stuff to us.

- August

[Sadena Meti]

People see lots of shit that isn't there. Like the face on Mars. Life the outlines of a face in a shadow. Faces faces faces, words words words. We see and hear things because our brains are great pattern recognition machines. They will see patterns that are not there. It is called Apophenia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

[PhoenixAsh]

Thats all nice and well...but it does not offer a viable explanation for the cuttlery drawer always getting stuck and one sock of a pair always disappearing.... So that proves...beyond a shadow of a doubt that there at least are sock mosters/demons and there is a goddess of cuttlery. :)

There really is no other possibility...

[Ele'ill]

All of the ghostly encounters are explainable. Although it is fun to go into creepy places with friends.

[Sadena Meti]

All of the ghostly encounters are explainable. Although it is fun to go into creepy places with friends.

All ghostly encounters CAN be explainable. That doesn't mean that with the evidence available they ARE explainable.

[Che a chara]

Keep in mind the paranormal industry is big business, so it would be in the interest of capitalism to preserve the interest and belief in ghosts via false research, distorted findings and using fictitious experiences which would contribute in the selling of merchandise, ghost-hunting, entertainment purposes etc. The gullible and an emotionally unstable person looking for answers of why he/she lost a loved one can be easily exploited and manipulated in this situation.

Religion also benefits from maintaining this belief.

[GPDP]

Ever notice how whenever they have those shows on TV about ghosts and spirits and shit, they almost never bring in skeptics?

Hell, the fact that just about all the people brought in to talk about the paranormal have few to no actual scientific credentials (usually authors peddling their fucking books) should be cause for concern that you might be getting scammed, for lack of a better word.

[Bud Struggle]

Why should we limit the universe to the things our senses (developed by evolutiuon to hunt for food and mates) have to offer?

Other dimentions, why not? Other universes intersection with ours, why not? Other planes of existance, why not? Essences instead of existances, why not? Other beings existing in the same temporal spacial sphere, why not?

Ghosts as whoo, whoo, whoo? Probably not. But ghosts as part of a physics that we don't have a clue about? Why not?

[Kuppo Shakur]

I've had some pretty strange experiences, but nothing that I would call evidence.

[Revolution starts with U]

Im all for the "why not." I marked no but open minded.
I don't thnk there are ghosts. I don't think there has been any credible evidence of ghosts. And i think people have excellent imaginations, and as said above, anthropomorphization.
But hey.... you can't disprove a negative.
My stance is, until we have some credible evidence of metaphysical entities.... why shoudl I give a fuck?

[Bud Struggle]

What makes us think we have any ability at all to measure or understand the universe? That's just hubris.

What makes us that that things like logic have any specific meaning in the laws of the universe. Even our feeble at understanding subparticle physics teach us that the rules we use to live ou daily lives have no meaning when it comes to what the fabric of the universe really looks like. And what are the rules that make up the particles that the sub atomic particles are made of. And forces come from where? We haven't a clue.

We've been looking at the make up of the universe for what? 50, 100 years. We really know nothing.

[Tablo]

Not unless you count the specter of communism. Seriously though, belief in things like ghosts is an immediate sign to me that someone may be an idiot.

[hatzel]

http://www.catsuka.com/interf/icons3/laban01.jpg

...that's proof enough for me, I'll be voting 'yes' for sure! :)

[Bud Struggle]

Seriously though, belief in things like ghosts is an immediate sign to me that someone may be an idiot.

Yea, if you take the common Hollywood definition of the word ghosts. But why couldn't there be other beings in the universe that simply have differnt laws of time and space physics?

And who's to say there aren't points of intersection?

[Tim Finnegan]

I'm willing to believe that there may be some as-yet-undiscovered natural phenomenon or phenomena behind the various "sightings" of ghosts, but I'm not particularly inclined to attribute it to any of the established supernatural narratives.

[a rebel]

I remember as a child, my family rented out the first 2 floors of an old mansion. The house was built in 1870, and I remember everyone talking about something scary they've seen. My sister claimed to see flashing lights out of her window at night, my brother always heard footsteps in the hallway, my mother refused to go down into the basement because she said she saw a ghost there once, and my father said he would see shadows moving across the living room and into the kitchen.

I also remember seeing shadows walking in sync with footsteps going up and down the stairs. I was 6 at the time, scariest thing i have, and probably ever will see

[Tablo]

Yea, if you take the common Hollywood definition of the word ghosts. But why couldn't there be other beings in the universe that simply have differnt laws of time and space physics?

And who's to say there aren't points of intersection?
You have a point. I can't believe in them until they can be proven, but I can't totally discount the possibility.

[The Man]

I hate those TV shows about ghosts that have dialogue exactly like this:

Oh no! My camera just shut off.. It had to be the work of a Ghost!

OMG DID YOU SEE THAT?!

Dude.. Did you hear that?

[Narrator: Obviously, you can see a ghost right here]

[Tablo]

I hate those TV shows about ghosts that have dialogue exactly like this:

Oh no! My camera just shut off.. It had to be the work of a Ghost!

OMG DID YOU SEE THAT?!

Dude.. Did you hear that?

[Narrator: Obviously, you can see a ghost right here]
Those shows are such a disappointment every time.

[Zav]

I do not believe in the paranormal. There has never been found one shred of evidence to prove the existence of ghosts, UFOs, bigfoot, Nessie, etcetera. However, more is discovered about the universe every day, and what many perceive as ghosts, while they may be shadows, pranks, or one's imagination, may prove to be tangible beings, though I highly doubt it.

[ComradeMan]

To be fair, I don't think Roman Catholic Exorcists or people who have "seen" ghosts or strange things usually believe in those programmes like Ghost Hunters etc....:rolleyes:

[Tim Finnegan]

I do not believe in the paranormal. There has never been found one shred of evidence to prove the existence of ghosts, UFOs, bigfoot, Nessie, etcetera. However, more is discovered about the universe every day, and what many perceive as ghosts, while they may be shadows, pranks, or one's imagination, may prove to be tangible beings, though I highly doubt it.
You're confusing "UFOs" with "flying saucers", or some other assumption of extraterrestrial activity. Most UFO sightings are, in themselves, entirely legitimate, they just happen to be of something conventional that the witness was, for whatever reason, unable to identify.

Which may sound like a semantic, quibble but it goes back to my earlier point: one can dismiss a given explanation without denying the incident which it is intended to explain. If many "UFO" sightings turn out to be entirely natural phenomena, what's to say that the same may not be true of some of those allegedly supernatural or extraterrestrial-related occurrences that cannot yet be explained?

[Bud Struggle]

To be fair, I don't think Roman Catholic Exorcists or people who have "seen" ghosts or strange things usually believe in those programmes like Ghost Hunters etc....:rolleyes:

I think Roman Catholic Exorcists are the best science had to offer at the particular time they were invented. Much like what chemotheropary is today. Poison to kill a illness that is less than will kill the host body--but great enough to kill the cancer. It's barbaric--but it's the best we can do today. In 100 years they will be looking on chemo like we look on leaches.

It relative.

[Tim Finnegan]

I think Roman Catholic Exorcists are the best science had to offer at the particular time they were invented. Much like what chemotheropary is today.
They really weren't. The concept of mental illness has existed in Western Eurasia since the Classical period, and the Church, with its significant intellectual legacy from that period, was well aware of it, to the extent that they often acted upon it (albeit with rather less understanding or consistency than in the Islamic world). They just preferred to keep a little bit of shamanism running for ideological reasons.

[Jose Gracchus]

No, there are no such things as ghosts in any plain English sense of that word's definition. There might be unexplained things people think they witnessed. But that doesn't mean they were ghosts.

[PhoenixAsh]

Much like what chemotheropary is today. Poison to kill a illness that is less than will kill the host body--but great enough to kill the cancer. It's barbaric--but it's the best we can do today. In 100 years they will be looking on chemo like we look on leaches.

It relative.


This is so true.

[SacRedMan]

If we want to see something, we see it, even if others see it in a different way and actually isn't what you want to see.

[Princess Luna]

No, when you die your body rots and thats it, no mystical paradise, no eternal punishment, and no floating around the world as a ghost.

[Sadena Meti]

Animism could be seen as primitive ghost origins. The belief that things had spirits, for example, a river or a woods. It was a strange thing with a will of its own, so it had to be treated as such. Prayers and offerings given before crossing a dark forest. Otherwise the "spirit" would "get you."

[Jimmie Higgins]

So what is it that people all over the world, since time began, have been "seeing"?

I voted other. I've seen "ghosts" as a kid but I doubt they exist. Eyes and the brain play lots of tricks on people - especially in low-light or influenced by suggestion.

[SacRedMan]

No, when you die your body rots and thats it, no mystical paradise, no eternal punishment, and no floating around the world as a ghost.

But what happends with your conscious? Or do we remain unconscious?

Part 1:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5857536286040180959#

Part 2:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7827751287619768799#

[Sadena Meti]

But what happens with your conscious? Or do we remain unconscious?

Electrical impulses = energy. Energy = heat. Laws of thermodynamics = heat dissipates into entropy.

[SacRedMan]

[QUOTE=SacRedMan;2082018]But what happens with your conscious? Or do we remain unconscious?

Electrical impulses = energy. Energy = heat. Laws of thermodynamics = heat dissipates into entropy.

Click on the links and watch the video's. :thumbup1:

[Sadena Meti]

Click on the links and watch the video's. :thumbup1:

I am not watching a two hour movie unless there is some good sex and violence.

[SacRedMan]

I am not watching a two hour movie unless there is some good sex and violence.

:crying::laugh:

[Sadena Meti]

Besides the second movie is broken.

[SacRedMan]

Besides the second movie is broken.

Huh?:confused:

[Comrade J]

When I was about 8 or 9, I woke up in the middle of the night with really cold feet, and looked down and saw a faint spectre of a woman sitting on the end of my bed. I dived out of bed and ran into the bathroom and slept in the bath with a towel over me.

Do I believe in ghosts? Fuck no. At the time I did, when I was a child, but now I can reason that I probably hallucinated it. It's far more likely that the human brain can perceive things that are not there (which we know for a fact it can) than the 'soul' or whatever of some dead person wandering around. Perhaps it is some sort of temporal lobe activation, which is known to produce 'religious experience' like when people see the Virgin Mary and that kinda shit.

[Sadena Meti]

Huh?:confused:
Works now, but the first time I clicked on it, hoping it would be shorter it said this movie is currently unavailable. Seriously, do you expect us to watch 4 hours of movies to prove some point?

[Sadena Meti]

Perhaps it is some sort of temporal lobe activation, which is known to produce 'religious experience' like when people see the Virgin Mary and that kinda shit.

I had one (or more) of these years ago in a different phase in my life and they were INTENSE and REALISTIC. Doesn't change the fact they were all in my head.

[SacRedMan]

I had one (or more) of these years ago in a different phase in my life and they were INTENSE and REALISTIC. Doesn't chance the fact they were all in my head.

Will you tell about it? how was it? What did you feel?

[Sadena Meti]

Will you tell about it? how was it? What did you feel?

First you have to take into account that between 2000 and 2004 I was PROFOUNDLY religious.

Now I'm trying to remember these chronologically. The first was at Holy Hill, a basilica and monastery in the middle of the Wisconsin countryside. It was my place of retreat, it took half an hour to drive there from my house. It was at the time my church of choice. It is a beautiful place, both the structures and its setting in the middle of nature.

There was a statue there of St. Michael of Archangel, who I had a major thing for. One could say I was obsessed with Michael. Anyway, every time I came to Holy Hill (usually on weekdays because I didn't like the crowds), I would stop by this statue and pray the Chaplet of St. Michael, about a 10 to 15 minute prayer with beads.

http://www.sadena.com/Photography-Artwork/thumbnails/Michael%20Statue%201.jpg

During my prayer, a feeling began to come over me. The feeling of something approaching. It got nearer and nearer and stronger and stronger. Soon it overwhelmed my awareness. It was so powerful, so NEAR! An inch away was the most powerful being I could imagine. My heart was pounding, I was hyperventilating. It was a feeling which I will never be able to put in to words. In a panic attack, you feel like you are dying. In this attack, I felt like I was living. He was so NEAR! I fled the statue and ran back to my car, locked the doors, and just sat there freaking out. Eventually it passed.

It never happened again. At the time I interpreted the event as Michael showing himself to me. And my experience fit what his name means: "He who is like unto God."

Now I view it as a temporal lobe tremor.

There were two other events, not nearly as powerful. In one I saw two angels and in the other I felt a fraction of all of the suffering of the world. But I'm all typed out and not going to give narratives of those now.

[SacRedMan]

My heart was pounding, I was hyperventilating.

Scientists believe that the stress and the pressure are the reasons why you see something abnormal. Increase in blood pressure, they claim.

[PhoenixAsh]

Well...I for one sincerely hope there is such an entity as a succubus.

I can really opt for a beautiful illusion to cater my self esteem and physical discomfort and provide me with some blissful unawareness of my own lack of being able to cope with the harsh reality of it all...right about...now.

Unfortunately...have not found one. I did meet some girls who do qualify to the criteria partially...but unfortunately I did manage to survive the encounters and have to continue to live with the consequences.

Now...relevant for the debate....


Succubi and Incubi for one were explanations why people have wet dreams or why people act in their dreams.

[Sadena Meti]

It never happened again. At the time I interpreted the event as Michael showing himself to me. And my experience fit what his name means: "He who is like unto God."

Now I view it as a temporal lobe tremor.

There were two other events, not nearly as powerful. In one I saw two angels and in the other I felt a fraction of all of the suffering of the world. But I'm all typed out and not going to give narratives of those now.

I'm in the mood to write about the other two. The other two were not temporal lobe tremors (probably). The first was a hallucination and the second was a rogue panic attack.

The first, I was at mass at the Basilica of St. Josaphat (I prefer Basilicas and Cathedrals to common churches), praying after Communion, and I saw, I swear I saw clear as day two "men" standing on either side of the altar. But they weren't really men, there was something lion-like about them. They just stood their exuding amazing strength. This went on for a while and then it ended. At the time I believed I had just seen two angels. I now believe I had a hallucination centered in the temporal lobes of my brain.

The second time I was at the same Basilica and I was praying after Communion, and I was meditating on the suffering of the world and how great it must be. Suddenly a feeling came over me. A horrible feeling. The worst feeling imaginable. Suffering, Hopelessness, Death. It felt like I was dying. I prayed for it to stop and it did. At the time I thought I had been allowed to feel just a fraction of the global suffering of the world. Now I believe it was a panic attack centered in the R-Complex of my brain.

And that's the story.

[Rafiq]

So what is it that people all over the world, since time began, have been "seeing"?

I would suppose things that they didn't understand, or actually see closely.

[Sadena Meti]

I would suppose things that they didn't understand, or actually see closely.

There is something all over the world that effects all people and what they see and explains everything.

The Human Brain.

[Ele'ill]

Why do we see ghosts of loved ones and pets but not dinosaurs? (and insects, primates, squirrels etc..)

This was a joke post btw.

[Sadena Meti]

This was a joke post btw.
My mind was already getting geared up to reply.

[Ballyfornia]

But what happends with your conscious? Or do we remain unconscious?

From Skipping ahead in part 1. It seems that the guy is doing a trick called cold reading which is a trick used by mentalists illusionists and con artists. Derren Brown(awesome) tackles this in an episode of his show.

I can't post a link(need to have 25 posts) but youtube "Derren Brown Investigates - The Man Who Contacts The Dead - Cold Reading part 1" watch all the parts of it!

[Ballyfornia]

There is also a condition called sleep paralysis a thing my brother used to have. Its caused when you're half asleep half awake and then you hallucinate. This is also known as old hag syndrome. this is supposed to count for a lot of ghost sightings and alien abductions.

youtube: Science of SP Pt 1: Don't Move!

[sokpupet]

Around the age of 9 on a very dark night I awoke to the feeling someone was staring at me. I turned my head toward the window and could make out the vaguest outline of a man in a trench coat and hat appropriate to the time my grandfather would have lived. I froze for a second and then pulled the covers over my head. My grown child is a medium. I think we all have the "gift" but life teaches us to ignore or discount it. I don't rule anything out as I believe we are still in the learning curve much like the era of moving from a flat earth to round.

[GPDP]

Around the age of 9 on a very dark night I awoke to the feeling someone was staring at me. I turned my head toward the window and could make out the vaguest outline of a man in a trench coat and hat appropriate to the time my grandfather would have lived. I froze for a second and then pulled the covers over my head. My grown child is a medium. I think we all have the "gift" but life teaches us to ignore or discount it. I don't rule anything out as I believe we are still in the learning curve much like the era of moving from a flat earth to round.


There is also a condition called sleep paralysis a thing my brother used to have. Its caused when you're half asleep half awake and then you hallucinate. This is also known as old hag syndrome. this is supposed to count for a lot of ghost sightings and alien abductions.

youtube: Science of SP Pt 1: Don't Move!

There ya go.

[Dr Mindbender]

My wife sometimes forces us to watch those clairvoyant shows on satellite tv where mediums supposedly listen to messages from the dead.

At the end they get testimonials from the audience (sometimes sceptics) when they talk about personal information being revealed that only their loved ones would have known. Most of it is pretty hard to dismiss, even from a sceptic's point of view.

Whether or not that is the same thing as 'ghosts' i do not know.

[sokpupet]

There ya go.

I am familiar with that condition so maybe or maybe not. I feel I was quite awake when it happened. I waited until I thought I could and ran to my parent's room. I had never before or since that experience sought the comfort of my parents for a "bad dream".

[altnet]

I do not buy into the idea of the existence of supernatural apparitions in the slightest.

[sokpupet]

This is more the basis of my beliefs:
*not going off topic but giving some basis for my belief in being able to see/know "ghosts".
There is a hierarchy of vibration in the Universe. The highest, fastest vibration is Love or God/Source-- that which divided itself into all of Creation. If we were to experience the full high vibration of The Creator it would literally overload our molecular and Spiritual circuits and blow us apart. The Creator insures that Source energy is slowed down one step at a time to a frequency that our physical plane metabolism can withstand. It's part of the job of Spirit and Nature Beings to make higher energies usable for Humanity and our chakras (subtle energy centers in our body) do this for us on the individual level. We can attune and prepare our minds and bodies to function as high-volume conduits or conductors for these extremely healing and restorative energies by training as Energy Healers. You can also use objects like crystals, pendulums, and our Mesa Creative Arts Tools for Transformation and Healing to bring through these frequencies.

Here's what the energy frequency hierarchy looks like. At the Top are Spiritual Energies:

Love/God/Source is the highest vibration in the Universe.
Love slowed down yields thought:
Thought slowed down yields feelings:
Feelings slowed down yields magnetism:
Now come the Physical Energies:

Magnetism is the fastest vibration of physical energy.
Magnetism slowed down yields electricity:
Electricity slowed down yields light:
Light slowed down yields heat:
Heat slowed down yields sound:
Sound slowed down yields matter.
Some say God sang all of the Souls into existence with our own individual “creation song”. The greatest difference between light, sound, and matter is frequency, the speed of vibration. There is also a difference between them in consciousness, as the “knowing”, awareness, and overall Spiritual purpose of each is specific.

Most of us are able to feel all of the energies in the Physical range. Some people have learned/remembered how to feel the Spiritual ones. Just because the Human eye cannot see ultraviolet light or Human ear cannot hear a dog whistle, does that mean that those energies do not exist? Just because no meter has been invented yet to detect the Life Force that makes protoplasm “alive”, does that mean it isn’t there? What about experiments that show that a body loses a tiny amount of weight when the Soul leaves at death? There are reports that some monks have already found ways to live on the Prana (Life Force) present in the air without partaking of food, water, or sleep for months at a time. More @ Mesa Creative Arts

[Klaatu]

Ghosts may be, if they exist, visiting extraterrestrials, or perhaps time-travelers from some future time zone, visiting us (in their past.)

The purpose of each may be to study us (the way we would want to study our own Civil War, in depth, by being there.) :confused:

[DrStrangelove]

No. Like gods and other such supernatural claims, no evidence has been presented to support the case for their existence.

[Ballyfornia]

My wife sometimes forces us to watch those clairvoyant shows on satellite tv where mediums supposedly listen to messages from the dead.

At the end they get testimonials from the audience (sometimes sceptics) when they talk about personal information being revealed that only their loved ones would have known. Most of it is pretty hard to dismiss, even from a sceptic's point of view.

Whether or not that is the same thing as 'ghosts' i do not know.

Thats the cold reading i was talking about above.

[L.A.P.]

I'm a Materialist so no.

[Hexen]

Judging by most of the comments on this thread, perhaps this symbol should replace the RevLeft logo on the top left hand corner of this forum.

http://images.wikia.com/whitewolf/images/4/46/Faction-Technocracy.png

Ghosts are reality deviants that have no place in our Technocratic reality model.

[Ele'ill]

Ghosts may be, if they exist, visiting extraterrestrials, or perhaps time-travelers from some future time zone, visiting us (in their past.)

The purpose of each may be to study us (the way we would want to study our own Civil War, in depth, by being there.) :confused:

Yeah, it's possible I guess- they could be sending people back, perhaps prisoner gen-pop candidates from their current time, to investigate situations or other people.

[Sadena Meti]

My father is a psychologist, and he had a friend who was a parapsychologist. This guy had the most amazing slide show, which I saw twice as a child. Amazing stuff. Ghosts, lights, shadows, things like that. He's dead now. I wish I could see that slide show again, scanned into hi-resolution computer images, and analyze them one by one, dissecting each picture. Sadly he's dead, and his collection is gone.

[Klaatu]

I was thinking about the ghost question...

Is it possible that we can NOT record the existence of ghosts with machines (cameras, sound recorders, etc) simply for the same reason that we cannot use these machines to record the beauty of a painting or mountain vista, or the feeling brought on by great music? Sure, we CAN record the image or sound of a scene or music, but can we record the feeling it invokes? No. That is entirely subjective, in and of itself. That is to say that, a ghost is not a thing that can be recorded by a machine, it can only be experienced by an alert conscious mind (much the same way that a great song can evoke a sense of rhythm and enjoyment for the listener - something a machine cannot do; it has no emotion!)

To illustrate my point, rent and watch the 1963 film "The Haunting," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Haunting_%281963_film%29) and the 1961 film "The Mask." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mask_%281961_film%29) These films try to get the point across that ghostliness is an experience of the mind and emotion. One "sees and hears" ghosts; they are not imaginary (made-up or fake) they are real in the sense that they are "feelings and sensations" which are experienced by the observer, and then only by those overtly sensitive to the paranormal. But a machine cannot capture this. It is incapable.

Again, a feeling or emotion is not a thing that be captured on film or tape; the researchers using these machines in an attempt to record paranormal activity may be wasting their time. :confused:

[Kenco Smooth]

I was thinking about the ghost question...

Is it possible that we can NOT record the existence of ghosts with machines (cameras, sound recorders, etc) simply for the same reason that we cannot use these machines to record the beauty of a painting or mountain vista, or the feeling brought on by great music? Sure, we CAN record the image or sound of a scene or music, but can we record the feeling it invokes? No. That is entirely subjective, in and of itself. That is to say that, a ghost is not a thing that can be recorded by a machine, it can only be experienced by an alert conscious mind (much the same way that a great song can evoke a sense of rhythm and enjoyment for the listener - something a machine cannot do; it has no emotion!)

To illustrate my point, rent and watch the 1960 film "The Haunting," and the 1961 film "The Mask." These films try to get the point across that ghostliness is an experience of the mind and emotion. One "sees and hears" ghosts; they are not imaginary (made-up or fake) they are real in the sense that they are "feelings and sensations" which are experienced by the observer, and then only by those overtly sensitive to the paranormal. But a machine cannot capture this. It is incapable.

Again, a feeling or emotion is not a thing that be captured on film or tape; the researchers using these machines in an attempt to record paranormal activity may be wasting their time. :confused:

Are you arguing there is some kind of objective sense of beauty external to the human mind? I presume not.

Anyway, we need not use machines to measure for the supernatural. It's quite clear from the extensive participant research within parapsychology that there is no remotely serious argument for a link between experiencing something as supernatural and a genuine, related cause that was beyond natural explanations.

[Klaatu]

Are you arguing there is some kind of objective sense of beauty external to the human mind? I presume not.


Well not exactly. I am arguing that we cannot measure subjectivity or paranormal experiences with machines or instruments.

It's hard to explain, but if you watch the recommended movies, you get a sense of what I am saying.

[graffic]

I've never seen one but i've heard some convincing stories. Sure there is a lot of shit out there but there is also a lot of genuine stories of people seeing or experiencing things out of the ordinary. What made me believe in ghosts was hearing a couple i know who are very rational/non-religious people who would never tell anything weird unless it was true told a very convincing story of them staying in a house where a family had died in a flood. Ironically the family who died in the flood was the same as their family (mother, father, and daughter and similar ages), and all three of them experienced paranormal things on the same night. The child claimed to see a wet child by her bed. The mother felt something standing over her at night and the father got up in the middle of the night to see his dog barking so he let the dog outside and the dog ran up to a dark figure that walked away (apparently it was a remote location and the garden was a dead end with no exit). This was from very rational people who i know would never lie or explain an anecdote unless it was worth saying. And of course there are countless other stories of houses being haunted

[Viet Minh]

Uri Geller was one of the entertainers who pretended to have real psychic powers, so another magician used hidden cameras and set him up to expose how he did everything. Another great show was 'breaking the magicians code' although the guy is what they in the business would call a scab! :D

[bailey_187]

i say no but i still get a little scared when i been thinking about it when on my own at night. if it wasnt 4pm here i wouldnt be reading this topic

i always been scared of this shit, even though i can rationalise in my head that its probably not true

i remember when i was like aged between 8 until 11 i refused go into a bathroom around midnight time because id heard a version of that candyman/bloody mary thing lol

im not even a easily scared person by most things either tbh, its weird. i got no problem sleeping with my door unlocked (bad idea tbh, but i do forgot sometimes to lock it and cba getting up), window open or getting a bus/walking around at 4am in a bad or really quiet area of london. But thinking about ghosts and paranormal shit just scares the shit out of me :confused:

[Viet Minh]

i say no but i still get a little scared when i been thinking about it when on my own at night. if it wasnt 4pm here i wouldnt be reading this topic

i always been scared of this shit, even though i can rationalise in my head that its probably not true

i remember when i was like aged between 8 until 11 i refused go into a bathroom around midnight time because id heard a version of that candyman/bloody mary thing lol

im not even a easily scared person by most things either tbh, its weird. i got no problem sleeping with my door unlocked (bad idea tbh, but i do forgot sometimes to lock it and cba getting up), window open or getting a bus/walking around at 4am in a bad or really quiet area of london. But thinking about ghosts and paranormal shit just scares the shit out of me :confused:

Do you know if you say Comrademan three times he appears in the thread? :D

[tradeunionsupporter]

No there are no Ghosts.

[hatzel]

No there are no Ghosts.Thanks for the insight, bro...:sneaky:

[Rooster]

I'd be pretty bummed out if I died and came back as ghost.

[Klaatu]

I'd be pretty bummed out if I died and came back as ghost.


I think that would be fun. As a ghost, I would scare the bejeses out of George Bush and his gangster friends. :D

[Johnny Kerosene]

While I don't believe that they exist I most certainly wish that they did, because that would be cool as fuck.

[tracher999]

i believe in ghosts zombies vampires i like all that shit
the only gost i never believe in is god if he exist
than is it a fucking ashole:D

[smk]

No, I don't believe in anything that has no basis in logic/reality. Why would I?

Because the chances that the human brain can comprehend how the universe works are pretty small.

That being said, I don't believe in ghosts because I've never seen one. However if I did see one, but didn't have any empirical explanation, I might still believe in ghosts.

[Metacomet]

I have never had a "ghost" experience. I have never seen a Yeti, or aliens, or anything like that. (Though sometimes I wish I would to shake things up a bit! :D)

However, I do believe in them. I think that there is just so much.............energy and matter floating around that who knows what form it could take. Just because we can't see it with these almost worthless eyes, or sense it with our equally poor senses, and understand it fully, doesn't mean I don't think that it isn't there. They can take the form of whatever, and be called whatever Seelie, Angels, spirits, fairies, ghosts, whatever. I sometimes feel different when I'm in the woods, or when I'm in what feels like a "special" place. Maybe it is still being watched, or maybe it isn't and it's my frontal lobe doing something. I don't know. But I prefer to believe the former.

I also 100% agree with the poster who mentioned "energy" I strongly believe that exists as well. Places can have an energy, rooms, buildings, groups, everything seems to have its own.


Maybe all this can be scientifically explained in some rational matter. But for me, I believe it.

[Comrade J]

I also 100% agree with the poster who mentioned "energy" I strongly believe that exists as well. Places can have an energy, rooms, buildings, groups, everything seems to have its own.

"Energy" is such a misused term thrown around in bullshit new-age religion circles to explain simple emotion and perception that people experience. The feeling you get in a room comes from the experience and understanding that you have built up through your life about places.

People who grew up in an old-fashioned, antique-filled house will more likely feel at home in a similar old building and sense a "good energy", whilst those who haven't might find it somewhat creepy. Same for people who spent a lot of time in hospital as a kid, I have a friend who was very ill as a child and he feels really freaked out and spooked whenever he's in a clinical white environment, which most people would find fairly neutral. It's not an "energy" in the room, it's simply your cognitive self interpreting your surroundings based on experience, beliefs and knowledge in order to determine safety, acceptable social behaviour and so on - something we have naturally evolved.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy#Temporal_Lobe_Epilepsy.2C_N eurotheology_and_Paranormal_Experience) explains very briefly some of the research that Neuroscientists have conducted regarding the temporal lobe and its ability to create religious or paranormal visions or perceptions.

I can't remember if I have already posted in this thread or not, but when I was a child I believed in ghosts and 'saw' a ghost sitting on my bed one night. Obviously at the time I was terrified, but looking back it was clearly a hallucination - I had just woken up for a start, plus it's a billion times more probable that I hallucinated it (which is empirically proven to be very much possible amongst all humans) than it being the spectre of a dead person chilling out in my house.

[El Chuncho]

"I answer that I am prepared to consider evidence and accept it if it satisfies me." - M.R. James.

[Kenco Smooth]

I have never had a "ghost" experience. I have never seen a Yeti, or aliens, or anything like that. (Though sometimes I wish I would to shake things up a bit! :D)

However, I do believe in them. I think that there is just so much.............energy and matter floating around that who knows what form it could take. Just because we can't see it with these almost worthless eyes, or sense it with our equally poor senses, and understand it fully, doesn't mean I don't think that it isn't there. They can take the form of whatever, and be called whatever Seelie, Angels, spirits, fairies, ghosts, whatever. I sometimes feel different when I'm in the woods, or when I'm in what feels like a "special" place. Maybe it is still being watched, or maybe it isn't and it's my frontal lobe doing something. I don't know. But I prefer to believe the former.

I also 100% agree with the poster who mentioned "energy" I strongly believe that exists as well. Places can have an energy, rooms, buildings, groups, everything seems to have its own.


Maybe all this can be scientifically explained in some rational matter. But for me, I believe it.

This post seems to boil down to "if it is even vaguely feasible that a thing can happen and I like this thing I will believe it" which is an absurd approach to an understanding of the world.

[TheLeftStar]

No, I don't believe in ghosts at all!