OI Sport Thread: Kick off!!!

[ComradeMan]

If it's okay can we sticky this thread to discuss sport?
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To start:-

Any thoughts about the Champions League?

[Thirsty Crow]

I had high hopes for Spurs...:unsure:
Oh well, just have to sit back and relax while Barcelona thrashes yet again :D

[Che a chara]

If it's okay can we sticky this thread to discuss sport?

I want to have your babies :D
__________________________________________________ _______________



To start:-

Any thoughts about the Champions League?

Can't look any further than a Barca and ManUre final, with Barca edging it.

also, good weekend for sport -- the El Clasico tomorrow night, McCloskey .vs. Khan boxing match on Saturday night too, the start of the Snooker World Championship, FA Cup Semis (including Man Utd .vs. Man City), Arsenal .vs. Liverpool, Aberdeen .vs. Celtic, Leinster .vs. Ulster rugby ---- ALL ON TV :D

[ComradeMan]

I had high hopes for Spurs...:unsure:
Oh well, just have to sit back and relax while Barcelona thrashes yet again :D

Well I was thinking about this.

Inter were really poor and lost it in the second-half of the first leg. Tottenham were never really going to do it against Real after the first leg- short of a miracle.

This leaves Manchester United v Schalke- I think Manchester United are the obvious favourites here. Barcelona-Real. Hmmm... I wouldn't like to call this one but I think Real will go through, not Barca which will leave them facing a relatively relaxed Manchester United in the final after two HUGE games against Barca. The rivalry between Barca and Real is enormous and so the semi-finals will be like a final for those two teams and so their fans might hope that whoever wins doesn't play their best game in the semi only to lose in the final.

As for the final itself, you have to favour either Real or Barca over Manchester United- but finals are strange things and Manchester United are a lucky and resilient team- who can forget Bayern all those years ago?

[hatzel]

I'd might as well just contradict everybody else...I think Schalke are going to go all the way :laugh:

...although I'm not being entirely serious, if it actually happens, you all owe me a drink or something for my prophesy...

[Thug Lessons]

SpOrT's

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm really excited to see who Holmgren will hire to coach the Browns this year... that is, if there's a season. Stupid millionaires complaining they don't make enough money.
But I think we really have a chance; the defense has really improved. And all we need on the offense is a good reciever or two.
I figured you weirdos would only talk about soccer, so someone had to bring up some real football. :D

[Havet]

Not to try and turn the thread down, but if we keep sticking specific theme threads, eventually RC will become obsolete, which is kind of a shame. I'd rather see a cooking thread than a sports thread, simply because cooking takes much more space in RC than sports :)

[ComradeMan]

I'd might as well just contradict everybody else...I think Schalke are going to go all the way :laugh:

...although I'm not being entirely serious, if it actually happens, you all owe me a drink or something for my prophesy...

The last "kosher" prophet was Isaiah! In a cup competition never say never but I can't see Schalke winning over two legs against Manchester United....

It's the Real-Barca thing that I can't decide.... although I tend to think Real will do it...

[Manic Impressive]

Man Utd are old and they've played a lot of games, their legs could go at the final hurdle.
Go On Schalke!!!!

[Thirsty Crow]

It's the Real-Barca thing that I can't decide.... although I tend to think Real will do it...
Probably because of the sheer force of shame compelling them to want revenge :D
It's a tough call. As far as I'm aware, there are 4 matches of these combatants within the next month (I think they're playing their legaue match tommorrow...which I will not be able to watch, of course, courtesy of Croatian national television :cursing:) so there could be some genuine twists and turns. All in all, if Real does not win in Madrid by at least 2 goals of advantage, I'm fairly sure that Barcelona will proceed to the finals. The King's Cup, it seems to me, will go to Real.

[ComradeMan]

Probably because of the sheer force of shame compelling them to want revenge :D
It's a tough call. As far as I'm aware, there are 4 matches of these combatants within the next month (I think they're playing their legaue match tommorrow...which I will not be able to watch, of course, courtesy of Croatian national television :cursing:) so there could be some genuine twists and turns. All in all, if Real does not win in Madrid by at least 2 goals of advantage, I'm fairly sure that Barcelona will proceed to the finals. The King's Cup, it seems to me, will go to Real.

Well, I am going to go for Real (not because of any loyalty or being a fan)- I just think they have the edge and if you can cancel Messi you can cancel Barca and I think Real have the players to do that.

[hatzel]

Man Utd are old and they've played a lot of games, their legs could go at the final hurdle.
Go On Schalke!!!!

You're not praying that the mighty Ryan Giggs will take another CL winners medal, then? :lol: I can't believe that he's actually still the heart of one of the top teams in Europe whenever he's on the pitch. A true sign of quality, that kind of talent doesn't fade with age...

[Ele'ill]

Oppose.

[Che a chara]

NFL v Premier League: Socialism v Capitalism in sport format

15 Apr, 2011 guest England, Europe, Latest, Politics & Society, Premier League

http://www.just-football.com/soccer-blog/wp-content/themes/majalah/timthumb.php?src=wp-content/uploads/2011/04/nfl-draft1.jpg&h=260&w=600&zc=1

by Roger Domeneghetti

Whisper it (just so you don’t upset Sarah Palin and her Tea Party chums) but there’s a small corner of good ol’ America that’s looks a bit, well; socialist and that would be the NFL.

With the ‘S’ word being so divisive over the other side of the pond, the debate about the NFL rears its ugly head every six months or so with right wing political pundits desperate to protect the sport’s good name (let’s face it, nothing could be more American than Gridiron) and their opponents (sneeringly derided as ‘liberals’) predictably taking the opposite viewpoint.

Certainly at first glance American football couldn’t be more socialist, particularly when compared to the Premier League, which by contrast is rampantly capitalist.

In general terms socialism is defined as a political or economic system, based on the belief that all people are equal and so should share in the wealth of the country equally. In short it is based on co-operation whereas capitalism advocates competition – companies succeed or fail dependent on the quality of the product they produce and the price they can sell it at.

NFL v Premier League

OK, the NFL and the Premier League aren’t true economies; they’re businesses which exist within and draw upon much larger economies but that aside the metaphor holds up pretty well.

The business practices of the NFL introduced by Commissioner Pete Rozelle in the Sixties clearly contradict the tenets of free market capitalism. After his persuasion, the clubs’ owners agreed to split TV revenue equally, something enshrined by a bill passed through congress (I think the Daily Mail would refer to that as the ‘nanny state meddling’).

The draft system was also introduced, which sees the worst performing teams getting to choose the best young players ahead of the following season and in 1994 when it seemed that those measures weren’t enough to guarantee equality and competition, the league introduced a strictly-enforced salary cap with harsh penalties for any breach.

By introducing these rules, the NFL has created an environment of both greater on-field competition than in the Premier League and one in which franchises are financially far healthier than English clubs. In the 18 seasons from the start of the Premier League in 1992/93 only four clubs have won the title and just six of the 14 teams to have contested an FA Cup final have lifted the trophy. By contrast in the same period the NFL has seen 21 of its 32 teams appear in the Super Bowl with 12 of them running out winners.

Despite being the wealthiest football league in the world, clubs at all levels of the Premier League regularly post losses. Earlier this year, Manchester United’s parent company announced a loss of £109m and Newcastle recently announced a £33.5m loss for 2009/10 (down from £37.7m the season before). Even Arsenal, arguably the most financially well-run Premier League club, posted a loss of £2.5m between May and November 2010.

Again, by contrast, in August last year figures for the previous season revealed just two of the NFL’s 32 teams made a loss – Detroit Lions (who lost $2.9m) and the Miami Dolphins (who lost $7.7m) and the average value of a franchise was $1.02bn. Golly, maybe there’s something to be said for this socialism thing after all.

However, it’s only fair to acknowledge that the Premier League does a couple of socialist things itself. The league does collectively negotiate over TV revenue and while it’s not evenly distributed this is a much more equitable process than in say, La Liga, where the clubs sell rights individually and, predictably, Real Madrid and Barcelona hoover up most of the available cash. Furthermore, the Premier League gives handouts in the form of parachute payments to relegated teams – £16m for the first two seasons after the drop and £8m for the two after that. Blimey, that’s almost like a welfare state and income support, although this in itself creates a competitive imbalance within the Championship.

Across the pond cracks are appearing in the socialist utopia of NFL where a dispute between the teams and players is in danger of scrambling the golden egg. NFL owners are complaining that the salary floor and ceiling (based on the players receiving no less than 56% of revenue and no more than 60%) is too high. This led, ironically, to last season being uncapped and next season possibly starting with a player lock-out.

Perhaps the NFL bosses should take a look at football where UEFA recommend a wage-to-turnover ration of 70%. Of course, English clubs aren’t going to let a bunch of foreigners tell them what to do and regularly go over this. Last season Newcastle posted a ratio of 90.6% (up from 82.6% the previous season) and according to their 2009 accounts, Burnley had an arse-clenching wage-to-turnover ratio of 119.9%.

With Premier League clubs creaking under the weight of huge debts and the NFL in danger of messing up a system that has worked so well for so long, there are surely lessons to be learned on both sides of the Atlantic. As that great sports fan, Vladimir Lenin once said: “you’re only as strong as your weakest link”.

Roger Domeneghetti is a contributor to Just Football and editor of the blog Who ate all the goals (http://whoateallthegoals.blogspot.com/).

English Premier League, Football and Finance, Politics and Society, USA

LINK: http://www.just-football.com/2011/04/nfl-v-premier-league-socialism-v-capitalism-in-sport-format/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Just-football+%28Just-Football%29

[Manic Impressive]

You're not praying that the mighty Ryan Giggs will take another CL winners medal, then? :lol: I can't believe that he's actually still the heart of one of the top teams in Europe whenever he's on the pitch. A true sign of quality, that kind of talent doesn't fade with age...
I hate Man Utd and I always root for the under dogs but yeah ryan giggs is pretty amazing. I'm not saying that you lose your quality as you get older just lose a bit of pace and fitness and playing so many games takes it's toll physically the older you get.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

In talking about the NFL's "socialist" system you need to keep in mind there's another element in the equation, in my opinion. The value of many teams have gone up because of publicly financed stadiums, which is done chiefly by the NFL realizing if there is never a team in Los Angeles they can threaten any city to finance a stadium or be the mayor that saw the team die.

Anyway, NBA playoffs, not much to be excited about for us Golden State fans. I more or less am rooting against certain teams as opposed to supporting any team. Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, Heat...if none of these come out on top it's cool with me.

Baseball is underway again, another long slog in Oakland until September. In Texas all these motherfuckers are all of a sudden baseball fans, and it's plain for true fans to see their limited knowledge of the game. Starting 9-3 doesn't mean jack shit in baseball, with 150 games to go.

[Revolution starts with U]

I hope the Heat get embarrassed.

[hatzel]

All this talk of crazy American sports going on and I'm like wtf? :confused:

[Revolution starts with U]

That's okay. All this talk of soccer and I'm going "....why?"

[hatzel]

At least more than one country plays our sports...who do you guys play the in 'World' Series? :confused:

[Che a chara]

That's okay. All this talk of soccer and I'm going "....why?"

I like NFL and CFB, hence my username, but I think it's an affront to label it football. How much percentage of the game is the ball played by the foot compared to football ?


At least more than one country plays our sports...who do you guys play the in 'World' Series? :confused:

And the Packers were proclaimed 'world champions' in February :lol: :confused:

I think that might be a bit of the 'American exceptionalism/supremacy' mentality in play, i've no other explanation

[Revolution starts with U]

Hey, there are Canadien teams in MLB

[Che a chara]

Hey, there are Canadien teams in MLB

The North American Series ? ..... Cuba I hear also has an excellent baseball culture.

[Che a chara]

RE: Football/soccer....

It's the same in Ireland too though, especially in the 26 counties and those who frequent the GAA, that Gaelic Football is called football, and football is also called soccer too a lot of the time, as well as on Irish TV.

Gaelic Football, like American Football, is played predominantly with the ball in hand.

[ComradeMan]

At least more than one country plays our sports...who do you guys play the in 'World' Series? :confused:


To be fair to the US members here wasn't it originally called the "New World Series"? I also heard some story about it being named after a newspaper that sponsored the event that was called The World or something- but it appears to be a metropolitan legend.

[Revolution starts with U]

According to Wikipedia; it was dishonestly called the World Series, even though MLB at the time, and still does, express a desire to include teams from more countries... or at least claims to want as such.
Football makes no such pretenses, at least expressly. You may find comentators anouncing the "world champions" or t-shirts saying the same. But the NFL calls it the Super Bowl for just such a reason, except a brief agreement during the merger.

[Manic Impressive]

a much more appropriate name for American football would be American Rugby. I reckon that's why they adopted the name as the full name of rugby is rugby football and it's just the same except it's made easier by allowing forward passes, wearing helmets and of course who could forget the spandex grrrr.
But I reckon it should be renamed mostlycarrysometimeskickball I think that's much better.

[ComradeMan]

a much more appropriate name for American football would be American Rugby. I reckon that's why they adopted the name as the full name of rugby is rugby football and it's just the same except it's made easier by allowing forward passes, wearing helmets and of course who could forget the spandex grrrr.
But I reckon it should be renamed mostlycarrysometimeskickball I think that's much better.

The problem is that rugby is played in the US and the US have a rugby team. It seems to pre-date American football/Gridiron and the US are actually the current undefeated Olympic Gold Medal champions - last played as an Olympic sport in 1924.

[Revolution starts with U]

I denounce the anglo-nationalist attempts to give the name football exclusively to soccer (because it uses the foot on the ball the most) as reactionary! It is nothing less than trying to strip the common man from his historical creativity!

While it is widely assumed that the word "football" (or "foot ball") references the action of the foot kicking a ball, there is a historical explanation, which is that football originally referred to a variety of games in medieval Europe, which were played on foot.[2] These games were usually played by peasants, as opposed to the horse-riding sports (such as polo) often played by aristocrats
And the earliest known versions of football in Europe (mind you they are not the earliest, just the earliest that we know the way the game was played absolutely) more resemble rugby than modern soccer.

[hatzel]

mostlycarrysometimeskickball

Now that is a catchy name for a sport! Almost as catchy as that other great American sport, standaroundintighttrousersswingingabatataballthenr unningaroundincirclesbeforeslidingaroundinsandorso methingball :) (All one word, despite it being broken up by the wordlimit thing...)

[ComradeMan]

Episkuros (ἐπίσκυρος) or perhaps Phaninda (φαινίνδα) seems to have been the predecessor of football played in ancient Greece- this game may have been adapted by the Romans and became harpastum from the Greek ἁρπαστόν. This/these game(s) seem to have been similar to rugby or "Calcio Fiorentino" (Florentine football).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg

[Revolution starts with U]

Exactly. So we can safely stop trying to say soccer is the only legitimate football, and all others have to change their names.
And again, the earliest european football-ish type games that we actually know how they were played, resembled rugby more than soccer as well. One game would have a whole town vs another whole town (no limit on number of players for each side) attempting to move an item, usually a ball, to a specific part of the other's town, usually a church.
Sounds like a wicked awesome game, to be honest :D

[hatzel]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg)
And even back then, as we can see, those Mediterranean players were more concerned with tricks, ball juggling and the like, than they were with the fundamentals :lol:

[Manic Impressive]

I denounce the anglo-nationalist attempts to give the name football exclusively to soccer (because it uses the foot on the ball the most) as reactionary! It is nothing less than trying to strip the common man from his historical creativity!

And the earliest known versions of football in Europe (mind you they are not the earliest, just the earliest that we know the way the game was played absolutely) more resemble rugby than modern soccer.
I denounce the cultural imperialism of the Americans trying to destroy the rest of the worlds* proletarian sports heritage.

*(except Ireland, Canada and Australia)

[ComradeMan]

And even back then, as we can see, those Mediterranean players were more concerned with tricks, ball juggling and the like, than they were with the fundamentals :lol:

Ha!

We've got style! ;) :cool:

On the other hand, Calcio Fiorentino is a particularly violent and hard game... so.

But- it seems that the Romans may have brought some version of this game to Britannia and thus..... yet another thing the Romans did for YOU!!! LOL!!!

On a different note- I am really looking forward to the Copa América in July and I have a feeling Uruguay will do something special.

[Manic Impressive]

But- it seems that the Romans may have brought some version of this game to Britannia and thus..... yet another thing the Romans did for YOU!!! LOL!!!

You're such a nationalist :rolleyes:

on an unrelated note it was a Scot who taught the Brazilians modern football :lol:

[Sasha]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ancient_Greek_Football_Player.jpg

i would think that if modern football would be played in the nude the cliche of "straight women and gays dont like sports" would be shatterd fast. :D
i have quite some female and queer friends who where very dissapointed when the ban on taking your shirt of after an goal came into effect, on the other hand they happily tag along to MMA matches for the eye candy.

[Revolution starts with U]

I denounce the cultural imperialism of the Americans trying to destroy the rest of the worlds* proletarian sports heritage.

*(except Ireland, Canada and Australia)
You're going to have to prove your charge, not just state it. We're not trying to get you to stop calling it football. We just merely call a different game of football. If anybody is culturally imperialist, it is european soccer fans ;)


Ha!

We've got style! ;) :cool:

On the other hand, Calcio Fiorentino is a particularly violent and hard game... so.

But- it seems that the Romans may have brought some version of this game to Britannia and thus..... yet another thing the Romans did for YOU!!! LOL!!!

On a different note- I am really looking forward to the Copa América in July and I have a feeling Uruguay will do something special.
Anything you can do to make the Romans look better :rolleyes:
We're well aware of the historical impact of the Romans. We don't need some self-proclaimed leftist jumping in at any chance he can get to remind us how much better Romans (and therefore Italians, therefore himself) are than the rest of the world :laugh:

[Jazzratt]

While I understand that restriction isn't strictly a punishment I don't want to use the stickies to make OI into a poor man's version of the main board. I'm sorry but I think I'll close this thread, I won't trash it though so if someone wants to argue that it should be there I can later open and stick it.

If you do want to argue it though please do so via PMs rather than clogging the board with it. Cheers.