Fate and the evolution of the universe

[hatzel]

This might sound crazy, but...was it inevitable that the Earth would emerge as a planet capable of sustaining intelligent life? I'm just thinking about the current nature of the solar system, where it's all working like clockwork. We can work out exactly when this or that planet or moon which be in this or that (relative) position, and, with perfect knowledge, we could presumably also work out the effect the gravitational field of one entity on another, for example, Saturn's moons on its rings.

This then made me think that this was just a simplified version of that big ol' dust cloud at the beginning of the Solar System, for instance. Presumably, with perfect knowledge (and I know this is a totally hypothetical situation), we could have calculated the exact trajectory of each little particle or whatever, and, had we known the exact trajectory of every single particle, and the exact mass and make up, if we had a bagillion years to sit over a calculator, could we not have calculated at this point that some of these particles (even, an exact number that we could have calculated somehow) would come together to form the Sun, and then that there would be others that would form planets, moons and asteroids of this or that exact size, which would themselves have a gravitational pull of...whatever, and we could work out if they would be large enough to retain their molten core, magnetosphere, atmosphere, what this atmosphere would consist of, whether there would be enough stability on the planet for intelligent life to evolve?

I'm not explaining myself well here, so I'm not going to go onto the 'and was it inevitable that the Solar System would come into being from our galaxy, and that that galaxy would inevitably come into being from...whatever else, and so on and so forth?', as I can't even say the simplest thing. So the basic question was this, and you can figure it out yourself: according to the laws of physics, was it inevitable at the very synthesis of the universe that (assuming there was no external influence, for instance from other forms of intelligent life) that the universe would evolve into its current form? Ignoring the fact that it would be impossible for us to ever calculate this ourselves...and when I say 'in its current form', I don't include us. I just mean the geological stuff, and that this planet would be suitable enough, and with enough stability, for intelligent life to develop on it. Not that it was fated that I would end up sitting typing this on RevLeft :tt2:

[Luisrah]

I think so. It works a bit like a domino I suppose.

For example. On one corner of the galaxy it is possible that a star exploded, nad you already knew how the explosion would occur, since on one part of the star there is more fuel than on the other. So you know that one part of the start will blow and travel in that certain direction.
In that direction is a formed solar system, and through calculations you know that bit of star will hit a cold planet. You also calculate than on hitting the cold planet, it will warm it up to x degrees, put the planet on a time of lots of volcanic eruptions, and through those volcanic eruptions, gas from the inside of the planet will come out (because you already know what components the planet has) and you also know that the size of the planet+the bit of star that will aggregate will be enough to hold those gases.

You make more calculations and arrive to the conclusion that the planet will cooldown a bit, and will be in a temperature of y degrees, just enough to support life. When it cools, the water in the atmosphere will rain, and life will come out. You also know it will stay in those conditions for around 5 billion years, just about enough to giver birth to life and intelligent lifeforms.
Since there is no free will in any of the things that lead to that, I suppose it's possible to calculate all that.

But that's theoretically, because in practice, no one's really going to do it.

For example, if you hit a glass with a rock on a exact point, it is possible to calculate exactly how the glass will shatter. If you take into account the size, weight and force the rock hits the glass, if you take into account where the glass is more fragile, it's position, size and weight, etc etc etc
In theory it's possible, but in pratice you would take ages to make all the calculations, and you would always be missing something that was affecting the situation.

I hope I made myself clear.

[Q]

Such determinism had some echo in the 19th century physics. That is, until Heisenberg came with his uncertainty principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle) that bursted that bubble.

[Sadena Meti]

Try Stephen Hawking A Brief History of Time, eBook:
http://www.sadena.com/Books-Texts/Stephen%20Hawking%20-%20A%20Brief%20History%20Of%20Time.pdf

Also here are audio-books of a Brief History of Time and The Universe in a Nutshell, his newer work.

http://www.sadena.com/Books-Texts/Stephen%20Hawking%20-%20A%20Brief%20History%20of%20Time/

http://www.sadena.com/Books-Texts/Stephen%20Hawking%20-%20Universe%20in%20a%20Nutshell/

If anyone ever stumbles on a PDF of The Universe in a Nutshell please send it to me as it will complete my collection. I own hardcovers of both of these books as well

Also, please thank me for this post. My reputation took a major beating today in another thread. Undeservedly.

[hatzel]

Such determinism had some echo in the 19th century physics. That is, until Heisenberg came with his uncertainty principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle) that bursted that bubble.

Hmm...makes sense to me :) Then perhaps we should consider how far back we can go back with the development of intelligent life being effectively inevitable. Though we can't drag it back to the synthesis of the universe or anything, but...maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it could presumably have been stated with a very high degree of certainty, as soon as the Earth came into being, that it would be a suitable place for the development of life, given its size, distance from the Sun...atmospherical make up? I assume that last one could be known already as soon as the planet came into being, or at least when the atmosphere had formed. I'm now thinking about the (incredibly hypothetical) future situation where we could identify a relatively young planet on which there is, at time of discovery no intelligent life, yet which may be suitable for the subsequent evolution of life. Not that I really think we'd be able to observe it over billions of years to actually see intelligent life evolving, but it's an interesting thought experiment, and could at least give vital information about the early development of a life-worthy planet. I don't know why I care, though. I blame the BBC documentary, The Wonders of the Solar System, which was reshown recently. Great documentary, if you've not seen it, watch it. I don't know, maybe it's just really simplistic for actual scientists, but for idiots like me, it was fascinating :)