What's the story on the free masons?

[Fulanito de Tal]

Someone I know told me a story about how the free masons control everything, Then he went on to list a bunch of people that were free masons.

Has anyone else heard of this?

What is a free mason?

How much political strength do they have?

Anything else interesting about them?

[The Douche]

They are a social club based around some "secret" traditions. Many important people are masons, because it is a social club, so you can make important connections for business and socialization through it.

It was founded with some sort of goal to be a club for discussing enlightenment ideas and petite-bourgeois philosophy, but to what extent it ever was is not particularly clear, and it isn't today. It is also certainly not as a nefarious as conspiracy theorists would paint it.

My grandfather was a 33rd degree mason.

[wunderbar]

They're a "fraternal order", sort of like the Elks, only older, more secretive, and more focused on mysticism. There's a bunch of theories about what they do and how much influence and power they have, but I doubt there's much truth in them. Just another old club with a declining, aging membership.

[GPDP]

My great-grandfather was a Mexican mason, apparently. My dad still keeps a little booklet with a bunch of philosophical/religious writings by him. Some of the strangest, most unreadable shit I've ever read if you ask me.

[Thirsty Crow]

They are a social club based around some "secret" traditions. Many important people are masons, because it is a social club, so you can make important connections for business and socialization through it.

It was founded with some sort of goal to be a club for discussing enlightenment ideas and petite-bourgeois philosophy, but to what extent it ever was is not particularly clear, and it isn't today. It is also certainly not as a nefarious as conspiracy theorists would paint it.

My grandfather was a 33rd degree mason.This is true, but it covers only one aspect of the whole story (but I still do think it is the most important aspect).
Other aspects could be described as religious-mystical, based on some old procedures of the occult groups going back to at least the 17th century. That's what scares people, but it's not at all like that (sacrificing babies and invoking Satan). The recognition of this dimension drives people to conclude that they rule the world by their powerful magic (as well as the quid pro quo when concluding that their position as free masons, and not as high ranking bureaucrats of IMF, say, grants power).

In the end, I'd described them as social-cultural-religious clubs.

[Sasha]

points is that like all secret society's those with power seem to gravitate to them.
yes its true many people in powerful positions over time where free masons.
(many of the US founding fathers for example).
and yes, there have been, rare, instances where an loge got caught having an proven, unhealthy control on politics, business and other aspects of society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due) but that just proofs that in every conspiracy theory there are elements of truth, not that they are the truth

[Ballyfornia]

I believe that its capitalist's noticing that theres a problem with capitalism but not blame it on capitalism itself, But some mystical secret society!

[stella2010]

The freemason are a secret order that have existed for over a century. They made alot of wealth through the imperial struggles for resource grabs early last century. They have immense wealth but a declining membership, alo of old outdated men. My Grandfather was a freemason, he was a part of colonialism in Rhodesia and South Africa.

He probably died a freemason and was a cold prick anyway.

[Paul Cockshott]

They are a lot older than that, they originated in Scotland at least as far back as the 17th century. They appear to have had some influence on the French revolution as a passing glance at the symbolism displayed in mementos preserved in the Museum of the Revolution in Paris should convince you. They were associate with the bourgeois radicals and the anticlericalist movement in the 3rd republic, hence the hostility to them shown by the Catholic church.
At present they are what you would call a networking organisation for small businessmen and parts of the establishment.

[Dimentio]

Someone I know told me a story about how the free masons control everything, Then he went on to list a bunch of people that were free masons.

Has anyone else heard of this?

What is a free mason?

How much political strength do they have?

Anything else interesting about them?

In the Middle Ages, the Freemasons were originally a guild for Architects and Builder foremen (which had a pretty high status and guarded their secrets jealously). In the 18th century, the Freemasons guild opened up for lawyers and the bourgeoisie.

In general, they are consisting of influential members of society and are very secretive. The problem is that it could fester corruption and destroy all remnants of accountability.

[Magón]

I know a Freemason. He's kind of a bit out there in theories and the like, but according to him, the Freemasons and Illuminati battled it out already like a century ago, with the Illuminati being beaten down to a miserable little number of members, and the Freemasons as the overall champs in the "war" as he put it.

Kinda reminded me of the whole story arch in those Assassin's Creed games. One thing I hate about Freemasons (out of many): They are some of the most tight lipped and secretive mother fuckers I know about. The guy I know who's one wont even let me check out his kilt/skirt piece without joining. (Which I'd never do.)

[Euronymous]

Mostly hipsters discussing libertarian ideas in front of small coffee shops. I met a few. They still won't tell me what bands they listen to.

[Red Commissar]

They were targeted for repression at various points because regimes either felt they would present a venue of "conspiracy" or to pander to popular sentiment. Communist regimes in the eastern bloc I believe also had restrictions on Freemasonry for the former reason.

However you can find some instances where laws that were fashioned supposedly against Freemasonry were worded in such a way that would allow the state to clamp down on "secret" meetings of any kind, including certain parties- Communist ones mainly. Basically a legislation that would allow them a way to attack other groups.

You can read such an exchange here (http://marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1925/05/speech.htm) over a similar law that was being pushed by Mussolini in 1925 and the opposition the Communists had to it over the reason of "secret societies". Though the latter half goes into a shouting match that wouldn't be too out of place in our forums ;)

[Q]

According to the "Argus foundation (http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/index_en.htm)" they are a Christian secret order, so secret that the religious nature only becomes apparent in the "higher degrees", like the 18th degree of the "Prince of the Rose Croix of Herodem", etc. The site is very rich in content, even describing how the initiation rites go, etc.

I'm not entirely sure why they treasure the secrecy so much. The first grand lodge was founded in 1717 in London, but before this there is the "speculative masonry" in which honorary membership is recorded as early as 1600 in the Edinburgh Lodge. It was not like Christianity was forbidden in this country at that time.

The Netherlands has had its own order called the "Order of Freemasons under the Grand Orient of the Netherlands", which was founded in 1756. There are lodges of this order in the Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, Aruba, Suriname, South-Africa and, for some reason, Zimbabwe. It has about 6000 members and is considered to be one of the more open versions of freemasonry around.

[khad]

No, Masons don't control everything, but, yes, they were significant.

History wasn't so much written by masons as they were by anti-masons. That wave hit the US when Masons in NY successfully rigged a murder trial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morgan_%28anti-Mason%29) in their favor. The ensuing anti-Mason backlash spawned some of the earliest populist movements in the US and was actually a precursor to early abolitionist and women's politics in 19th century.

As such, anti-Masonry gets one thumb up from me.

One should also note that around this time, there was a general backlash against all secret societies in general. Other groups came under scrutiny, like the Order of Red Men, which relaunched as the "Improved Order of Red Men" in an attempt to clean up its image.

[Gorilla]

According to the "Argus foundation (http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/index_en.htm)" they are a Christian secret order, so secret that the religious nature only becomes apparent in the "higher degrees", like the 18th degree of the "Prince of the Rose Croix of Herodem", etc. The site is very rich in content, even describing how the initiation rites go, etc.

In most countries, especially in the English-speaking world where it originated, Freemasonry is open to all monotheists. The 3 basic degrees, called the Blue Lodge degrees for some reason, have a very 18th-century Deist character. A Christian religious test is used in the Masonic lodges in Scandinavia and some of Germany but that was a later addition. Some lodges in Latin-speaking countries have removed the religious test entirely and have many atheist members.

"Higher degrees," some of which are explicitly Christian or occult in nature, are a subject of controversy among Masons. The official line of the English-speaking lodges is that Master Mason (the 3rd degree) is the highest degree possible; the other ones, even if numbered higher, are only "side degrees." They remain organizationally separate. (Though again, it's different in Northern Europe and the Latin world.)


I'm not entirely sure why they treaure the secrecy so much. The first grand lodge was founded in 1717, but before this there is the "speculative masonry" in which honorary membership is recorded as early as 1600 in the Edinburgh Lodge. It was not like Christianity was forbidden in this country at that time.

Part of it is just mummery. Part of it is that freedom of association wasn't a recognized right even in England at the time. There was the case of the "Tolpuddle martyrs" where some men were hanged for being Oddfellows (a kind of low-rent cousin of the Masons.) Masons got around this less by secrecy than by quickly ingratiating themselves to the better portion of society and getting royal patronage to make things legit.

[Rooster]

My friend is a taxi driver who's a part of a taxi driver/plumber/craftsman/etc Freemason lodge. All they do is get drunk or try to get each other work or you know, certain benefits. It may have originally have been a place where you went to discuss enlightenment ideas but I think mostly today it's just a place to meet your mates and maybe try to get some cheap plumbing done in your house.

[Q]

My friend is a taxi driver who's a part of a taxi driver/plumber/craftsman/etc Freemason lodge. All they do is get drunk or try to get each other work or you know, certain benefits. It may have originally have been a place where you went to discuss enlightenment ideas but I think mostly today it's just a place to meet your mates and maybe try to get some cheap plumbing done in your house.

lol

Anyone else get this image in his mind about the "head plumber" of this lodge?:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI8O_fq2LqJ-fd9fdflpSMQhClcH2dfMeJeF3w-6g3FNavZSTi&t=1

[Gorilla]

lol

Anyone else get this image in his mind about the "head plumber" of this lodge?:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI8O_fq2LqJ-fd9fdflpSMQhClcH2dfMeJeF3w-6g3FNavZSTi&t=1

Uh oh, you know where this is heading....
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs17/150/f/2007/217/0/d/Mario_and_Stalin_Comparison_1_by_DrSVH.jpg
Uncle Joe is in the Masons!!!!!!!

[Ambiorix]

I have been around for a while,only reading though until now.. so this is officially my firts post.. I wanted to comment on this thread because its something i have been researching for quite a while..reading all these comments give me the impression that most people on here underestimate the influence that masonic lodges have on a country and its politics..Sure it isnt only the masons that have this influence there are alot more secret societies for example the club of rome, Rosicrucians, the knights of Malta, the order of the eastern star, the most influential members among these secret societies meet every year at the Bilderberg reunions..There is alot of speculation as to what their agenda might be..but thats just speculation..However one should ask himself if such secrecy has a place in democracy?

[Q]

However one should ask himself if such secrecy has a place in democracy?

One has to ask themselves whether we live in a real democracy, if a conspiracy supposedly has that much power. The Blanquist conspiracy didn't work out, mostly because it was incompatible with proletarian democracy. That is, actual democracy.

But yes, why shouldn't secret orders exist, if they so desire? Many communist parties have their underground work too (be it for completely other reasons, for example to escape state repression), so they too should be banned?

[RedSunRising]

Wasnt Bakunin a Freemason?

The ICC claimed that they were being inflirtrated by Freemasons at one point.

http://libcom.org/history/open-letter-international-communist-current

http://en.internationalism.org/node/3741

[Rafiq]

It's just a secret club for rich and powerful people. Kind of like how the popular kids in elementary school formed 'secret clubs' for them only.

[Rafiq]

Wasnt Bakunin a Freemason?

The ICC claimed that they were being inflirtrated by Freemasons at one point.

http://libcom.org/history/open-letter-international-communist-current

http://en.internationalism.org/node/3741

I didnt know the ICC where such conspiracy theorists... anyICCers explain this ?

[Zanthorus]

I didnt know the ICC where such conspiracy theorists...

Trust me, they are nowhere near as bad as the GCI/ICG.

[Rafiq]

Why?

[black magick hustla]

Wasnt Bakunin a Freemason?

http://en.internationalism.org/node/3741
this article is not about the icc but freemasonry in communist organizations which was a real thing.

[Zanthorus]

Why?

The GCI believes, among other things, that AID's is something manafactured by world governments' in order to prevent proletarians from having promiscuous sex, and to reinforce the monogamous nuclear family.

[Jose Gracchus]

:lol: That's rich.

[RedSunRising]

:lol: That's rich.

Its a bit more complex than that.

http://gci-icg.org/english/communism8.htm#aids

It makes sense to me and they are not the first people to say it. The ICC's idea that Freemason's were deliberately inflirtrating them though was pure ego stroking madness.

[Zanthorus]

Its a bit more complex than that.

It really isn't.


It makes sense to me

You might want to see a doctor about that.

[RedSunRising]

You might want to see a doctor about that.

That AIDS has a man made origin? Dont think so.

Though it was obviously meant to target Africans.

[Ambiorix]

One has to ask themselves whether we live in a real democracy, if a conspiracy supposedly has that much power. The Blanquist conspiracy didn't work out, mostly because it was incompatible with proletarian democracy. That is, actual democracy.

But yes, why shouldn't secret orders exist, if they so desire? Many communist parties have their underground work too (be it for completely other reasons, for example to escape state repression), so they too should be banned?

Q i guess you just answered your own question.. like you said there are communist parties that have their underground work for example to escape state repression but the thing is the masonic lodges arent being oppressed in fact they are made up of the biggest elite one can find.

[black magick hustla]

Wasnt Bakunin a Freemason?

The ICC claimed that they were being inflirtrated by Freemasons at one point.

http://libcom.org/history/open-letter-international-communist-current

http://en.internationalism.org/node/3741
Devrim answered the freemason question:



I would have preferred it if somebody who had been a member of the ICC at the time had answered this, but as nobody has, I will try to address it as I think that it is important that it is answered.
I asked about the ICC about this a long time before I joined. Well you would, wouldn't you? I was told that they were not actually Freemasons, but were people who were interested in esoteric things, like for example someone we both know in London.
In which case, it is either a terrible piece of translation from a French article, or an example of using 'group speak' in public. Most people must read it as a direct reference to Freemasons, like you and I did. It is pretty poor in either case.

[RedSunRising]

Devrim answered the freemason question:

Notice you didnt reply to the open letter from an ex-member.

Anyway a leading member in England of your apocalyptic cult wrote a pamphlet on Shamanism without getting expelled so there is more to it than you make it. ;)

[Ambiorix]

Anyway a leading member in England of your apocalyptic cult wrote a pamphlet on Shamanism without getting expelled so there is more to it than you make it. ;)

There where or are many members who are not christians but in fact pagans..for example the peruvian Tupac Amaru was one of them..this is not so strange because the masonic tradition is polytheism. They worship alot of sumerian gods as well.. one example would be Molech they have a statue of him in a place called Bohemian Grove..

[black magick hustla]

Notice you didnt reply to the open letter from an ex-member.

i didnt read it




Anyway a leading member in England of your apocalyptic cult wrote a pamphlet on Shamanism without getting expelled so there is more to it than you make it. ;)
1) i am not a member. 2) its a bit funny but i dont see how an interest in shamanism is bad. its an interesting thing. i mean a bunch of cavemen taking shrooms and talking to plants thats p. wild

[RedSunRising]

i didnt read it



1) i am not a member. 2) its a bit funny but i dont see how an interest in shamanism is bad. its an interesting thing. i mean a bunch of cavemen taking shrooms and talking to plants thats p. wild

As you quoted...

"I asked about the ICC about this a long time before I joined. Well you would, wouldn't you? I was told that they were not actually Freemasons, but were people who were interested in esoteric things, like for example someone we both know in London."

So that gets some people kicked out but not others?