Brigote Rosse (Red Brigade)

[L.A.P.]

Well hey guys, I'm incredibly high right now so bear with me if this comes off as a bit incoherent. But I just wanted to know why no one has ever mentioned the Italian Red Brigade before? I went from a thread on Christopher Hitchens to some how coming across a Wikipedia page about this group the next second out of no where. Excuse my romanticized language here but, those dues seemed like some real bad ass motherfuckers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Red_brigades_logo.png

Discuss.

[bcbm]

turning mass struggle into military struggle is not badass

recommended reading:

strike one to educate one hundred
armed struggle in italy 1977-78
memoirs of an italian terrorist

[StalinFanboy]

I think the one thing anarchies and stalinists will always have in common is a boner for violence

[bcbm]

http://www.ateneonline-aol.it/img/annidipiombo.jpg

77 hipster communism was cooler than it is today

[Os Cangaceiros]

This is what I wrote about them in college (yes, they were discussed in a class I had in college):

*Red Brigades
- Kidnapped and murdered Aldo Moro, Christian Dem, former prime and foreign minister in brazen, bloody attack.
- Moro is kidnapped in March, murdered in May of 1978.

*Repurcussions of Moro affair
- Pushed Leftist parties towards the center.
- Rise of neo-fascist, far right groups; railroad bombing in Bologna by neo-fascist group kills over 80 people.

*It's also worth noting that the Red Brigades had a certain amount of popular support; more, for example, than the RAF. Some leaders in Northern Italian cities (where support for "Brigate Rosse" tended to be strongest) were linked to the group.

there you have it, Red Brigade cliff notes, lolz

[L.A.P.]

I wasn't being serious, I thought you would get that but sorry if I came off as actually being that immature. I read a little more about them and I it seemed like they we would be classified as a terrorist group by anyone's definition. I didn't realized they were the type of group that would mindlessly kill a civilian and justify it as "for the greater good" type shit. I was just being humorous while still trying to ask an honest question.

[milk]

strike one to educate one hundred

Indeed. Worth getting.

[bcbm]

the red brigades killed or maimed a lot of civilians- politicians, managers, etc

[L.A.P.]

- Kidnapped and murdered Aldo Moro, Christian Dem, former prime and foreign minister in brazen, bloody attack.

It did actually seem a bit fucked up to kill a christian democratic politician just to break up a little friendship between the christian democratic party and the italian communist party, like was that even necessary to feel the need to murder someone over that, regardless of how much of a "class enemy" he/she was? This group actually seems like it was made up of over dramatic preteens with guns.

[Sasha]

A. You shouldn't underestimate the huge/substantial proletarian support they had at times
B. They where probably infiltrated to the highest level by gladio/the secret service.

I think these two statements go to the fundaments of the story of the BR.

[bcbm]

i think it has more to do with the logic that dominates terrorist groups and pushes them towards increasingly spectacular action than preteen drama...

[L.A.P.]

i think it has more to do with the logic that dominates terrorist groups and pushes them towards increasingly spectacular action than preteen drama...

Due to being high right now, I'm not having the most logical analysis on things right now.

[Gorilla]

Henry Kissinger's best footsoldiers.

[human strike]

Was it the Red Brigade or another group that had a thing about shooting people in the leg?

[bcbm]

Was it the Red Brigade or another group that had a thing about shooting people in the leg?

it was pretty common among the armed groups in the years of lead i think

[No_Leaders]

Ah the Red Brigade, i've actually been meaning to read a book about them right now called "Memoirs of an Italian Terrorist" which i bought but never got around to reading due to so many other books i have.

[bcbm]

Ah the Red Brigade, i've actually been meaning to read a book about them right now called "Memoirs of an Italian Terrorist" which i bought but never got around to reading due to so many other books i have.

its an interesting book, i think it strips a lot of the romanticism from armed struggle

[Queercommie Girl]

I think the one thing anarchies and stalinists will always have in common is a boner for violence

Not all "violence" are equal though. I still much prefer the "red terror" of socialists than the imperialist "white terror" of the likes of Caesar and Genghis Khan that some fools here like to brag about.

Warfare, like all things, has a class basis too.

Spartacus brutally crucified reactionary Roman imperialist soldiers, just like Roman legionnaires brutally crucified rebelling slaves. Are the two the same kind of thing? Certainly not.

[mosfeld]

My grandmother, when she lived in Italy, helped the Red Brigade guerrillas out by letting them hide/sleep in her basement and by giving them food. True story.

[Thirsty Crow]

Not all "violence" are equal though. I still much prefer the "red terror" of socialists than the imperialist "white terror" of the likes of Caesar and Genghis Khan that some fools here like to brag about.

Warfare, like all things, has a class basis too.

Spartacus brutally crucified reactionary Roman imperialist soldiers, just like Roman legionnaires brutally crucified rebelling slaves. Are the two the same kind of thing? Certainly not.
All of this is true. However, the thing is that you didn't mention the social and political situation in which measures such as "red terror" have historically been necessary. Suffice it to say, the Red Brigades didn't operate as part of that kind of social and political situation. They effectively abandoned class struggle in favour of adventurism, IMO. And that backfired.

[Gorilla]

My grandmother, when she lived in Italy, helped the Red Brigade guerrillas out by letting them hide/sleep in her basement and by giving them food. True story.

Was that before or after Moro got killed?

[Ravachol]

the red brigades killed or maimed a lot of civilians- politicians, managers, etc

Regardless of what you think about the BR (personally, I think any form of vanguardist urban guerilla is a dead end) appealing to the rethoric of 'civilians' isn't really something we wanna do here, it blurs class-lines and casts all of the State's subjects in the same mold. This reminds me of a discussion I had with cmoney in some other thread on here:



But you're talking about the full on murder of non-combatants. That's not realistic, nor is it something we should promote.




While I agree with the positions you espoused in earlier posts, I disagree with the underlying logic of this one. The combatant category reduces war to the mere military dimension. War is not simply a military affair, it is, if anything, the heighest expression of the Friend/Foe paradigm and the full dedication of resources to a conflict with said foe. Social war is thus war stretched throughout the social terrain and it's battle-mechanics do not stop at gunpowder and molotov cocktails. The law, the policeman, the surveillance apparatus all come into play as the many arms of leviathan engaged in war against those who would seek to escape it's grip and so the bureaucrats enforcing some new 'anti-terrorism' law are as actively engaged in the social war as the marching regiments on the streets. There is no such thing as a combatant, only partisans in a struggle. This does not mean "you're either with us or against us", far from it. It only means that we cannot view 'war' as the limited terrain of armed conflict and should thus not consider all others as 'neutral'.


The Red Brigades are the typical product of the poverty of vanguardism and spectacular action. Essentially, they're the condensation of what 'Activism' is about, they reduce struggle to the actions of specialists in violence, seperating subject (the proletariat) and actor (the vanguard). Not so much because they were a minority (they had thousands of active participants and an even bigger support network) but because their type of struggle cannot be easily reproduced by non-specialists and as the spiral of guerilla/counter-guerilla deepens it becomes even more difficult. Apart from that, one cannot simply blow up a social relationship, it's a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of Capital.

And then there's the whole Gladio/P2 debacle with the second generation of the BR and them being infiltrated and what not.

[JustMovement]

Let me first say this: I admire the red brigades for their courage and daring. They put their lives on the line for an ideal. Also, the situation in Italy was very complex at the time, the secret services, who are thought to have been dominated by the far right at the time, were shitting themselves that the PCI (italian com party) would be elected, and had arm caches and a coup already planned for this eventuality (part of project gladio). Throw in the P2 masonic lodge (only in Italy), the Catholic church, the mafia, and you get a lot of smoke and mirrors. The traditional narrative is that the BR were infiltrated and manipulated to some extent by the powers that be (CIA among others) to kill the Italian Head of the Government Aldo Moro, who was showing signs of opening to the PCI. Regardless of what really happened, the execution of Moro profoundly shook the country, and lost a lot of support for the communist Left. The BR also killed and maimed a lot of people in the "name of communism" e.g when they shot the father and son who owned a jewlery store, hardly the heights of capitalist industry. The father died and the son, who really had fuck all to do with it, is wheelchair bound for life now. What they ended up doing is playing right into the strategy of tension of the Italian secret services, and distracted people from the broader struggle of occupation and striking.

[Queercommie Girl]

All of this is true. However, the thing is that you didn't mention the social and political situation in which measures such as "red terror" have historically been necessary. Suffice it to say, the Red Brigades didn't operate as part of that kind of social and political situation. They effectively abandoned class struggle in favour of adventurism, IMO. And that backfired.

You might have a point to some extent, but Species Being, who I was responding to, essentially dismissed the Red Brigade simply on the grounds that they were "violent", without any further elaboration.

[JustMovement]

Also, as seen in the image above, the BR played right into that image of radical-chic, middle class, revolutionaries in skinny jeans and ray bans

[Ravachol]

Also, as seen in the image above, the BR played right into that image of radical-chic, middle class, revolutionaries in skinny jeans and ray bans

Now, let's not insult anyone on here.

[mosfeld]

Was that before or after Moro got killed?

Not exactly sure.

[L.A.P.]

Also, as seen in the image above, the BR played right into that image of radical-chic, middle class, revolutionaries in skinny jeans and ray bans

It does seem like their logo is a bit flashy and stylish, and whenever I read about them the writer gives off this impression that they were a bunch of kids whom embodied glamorized revolution. Of course this could all be incorrect, but it seems like they're being depicted as more of a bonnie and clyde type of publicity "outlaws" than actual revolutionaries.

[Gorilla]

Alright, I have nothing good to say about the BR but I am glad to see this graffiti being painted:

http://static.blogo.it/crimeblog/NuoveBrigateRosse.jpg

[Tim Finnegan]

The Brigote Rosse were a pack of unhelpful cretins; Wolfie Smith with a gun and a death-wish, nothing to admire.

[Ravachol]

The Brigote Rosse were a pack of unhelpful cretins; Wolfie Smith with a gun and a death-wish, nothing to admire.

As said before, writing them off as a minority 'pack of gun-toting ray-ban wearing skinny-jeans students' is really off. The BR had a fairly big mass-base and actually emerged from worker's struggles inside the factories. Sure, that doesn't change the fact that vanguardism and urban guerilla in general lead nowhere but their character was way different from, say, the Cellules Communistes Combattantes (CCC).

Strike One to Educate One Hundred (http://www.urbanguerilla.org/brigaterosse/) offers some nice reading material.

[Gorilla]

The BR had a fairly big mass-base and actually emerged from worker's struggles inside the factories.

And then they pissed it all away and helped Gladio fuck up Italy even worse.

[Kowalsky]

Let me first say this: I admire the red brigades for their courage and daring. They put their lives on the line for an ideal. Also, the situation in Italy was very complex at the time, the secret services, who are thought to have been dominated by the far right at the time, were shitting themselves that the PCI (italian com party) would be elected, and had arm caches and a coup already planned for this eventuality (part of project gladio). Throw in the P2 masonic lodge (only in Italy), the Catholic church, the mafia, and you get a lot of smoke and mirrors. The traditional narrative is that the BR were infiltrated and manipulated to some extent by the powers that be (CIA among others) to kill the Italian Head of the Government Aldo Moro, who was showing signs of opening to the PCI. Regardless of what really happened, the execution of Moro profoundly shook the country, and lost a lot of support for the communist Left. The BR also killed and maimed a lot of people in the "name of communism" e.g when they shot the father and son who owned a jewlery store, hardly the heights of capitalist industry. The father died and the son, who really had fuck all to do with it, is wheelchair bound for life now. What they ended up doing is playing right into the strategy of tension of the Italian secret services, and distracted people from the broader struggle of occupation and striking.

in truth, when Moro was kidnapped, the historical compromise between the Communist Party and the Christian Democrats was at a dead end. In the very days just before the kidnapping the PCI's Secretary had the last talks about the formation of the new goverment, he pointed out a rose of nome who (even though not being communists) could be acceptable for the communists. Moro rejected all the names.
nonetheless, there's a very widespread myth that Red Brigades kidnapped (or were led to kidnap) Moro to break the historical compromise. the real consequence of the execution of Moro, was that the PCI instead of breaking up with the Christian Democrats as would have been natural after the failure of the talks for the new government, kept on a line of "national solidarity". the definitive break with the Christian Democrats came only two years after

anyway, that the Red Brigades were higly infiltrated is not questionable, it is evident that they had freedom as long as they did not hit the wrong person, in fact they were easily took over by the police after the kidnapping of NATO's general Dozier

[Kowalsky]

The BR had a fairly big mass-base and actually emerged from worker's struggles inside the factories.

that's right if said about the "first period" of the BR (grossly, '70-'74).
since they started killing people and "hitting the heart of the state" instead of staying linked the the reality of the factories, they gradually lost popular support.
they completely lost any kind of support after the murder of Guido Rossa, a member of CGIL, the trade union linked to the PCI