Factories in the USSR

[Comrade1]

How was commodity production controlled in the USSR under and after Stalin?

[Robespierre Richard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Year_Plans_for_the_National_Economy_of_the_Soviet_ Union

A basic summary. Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#Planning

[ComradeOm]

On the shop floor or the planning methodology itself? Check out K Murphy's Revolution and Counterrevolution for the former and M Ellman's Socialist Planning for the latter

[Comrade1]

Did Stalin produce consumer goods such as soap and cloths???

[Ismail]

Did Stalin produce consumer goods such as soap and cloths???If you want an introduction to how the economy and workplaces and such were managed in the 1920's and 30's (albeit from a rather idealized and "legalistic" perspective), a good start is Volume I of the Webbs' Soviet Communism, which can be read here: http://library.du.ac.in/dspace/html/1/4394/Title.htm

To answer your question, of course consumer goods were produced. The issue was how to balance things, and obviously there were various shortages because a focus was on building up the industry of the Soviet state.

Also keep in mind not to reduce things to "Stalin," especially not stuff so blatant as soap production.

[Aurorus Ruber]

Did Stalin produce consumer goods such as soap and cloths???

Well obviously, since people were not walking around nude at the time.

[bailey_187]

yes, but it was often only the bare minimun

[ComradeOm]

Did Stalin produce consumer goods such as soap and cloths???In the USSR consumer goods were obviously produced and consumed. This was however very much restricted by economic policies that prioritised heavy industry. This was to the point that real wages and living standards, for the wider population, were deliberately reduced so as to aid the industrialisation drive. It was not until the death of Stalin that priorities shifted and production of consumer goods was significantly increased as the coercive economy was dismantled


If you want an introduction to how the economy workplaces and such were managed in the 1920's and 30's (albeit from a rather idealized and "legalistic" perspective), a good start is Volume I of the Webbs' Soviet Communism, which can be read here: http://library.du.ac.in/dspace/html/1/4394/Title.htmAfter that the reader may be interested in this unbiased material (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/) relating to the development of Soviet socialism

[Ismail]

After that the reader may be interested in this unbiased material (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/) relating to the development of Soviet socialismThis is assuming that the social-democratic Webbs were as "biased" as Stalin was. If we're going to talk about "bias," then Revolution and Counterrevolution was written by a Trotskyist. If you're going to bring up "oh, well, Murphy uses post-Soviet archives" then I could bring up Robert W. Thurston (for example) who does the same and generally reaches different conclusions, and Thurston isn't a "Stalinist."

As I said, the work suffers a bit from obvious knowledge that the situation on the ground was a bit more complicated than what the world knew in the early 1930's, but it does lay down the de jure affairs of things, from trade union work to Gosplan, from the various governmental posts, from how elections worked, etc.

Having actually read the work, it doesn't deserve the demonized reputation it has gotten since its publication.

[Comrade1]

Thanks for the links guys and if such consumer goods were made in the USSR under Stalin, how was it sold? By the state? Another question.... was the heavy industry (coal, oil, steel) exported?

[chegitz guevara]

How was commodity production controlled in the USSR under and after Stalin?

A commodity is a good or service produced for the purpose of exchange. With the exception of such produced for international trade, goods and services in the USSR were produced for use, not exchange.

[Ismail]

Thanks for the links guys and if such consumer goods were made in the USSR under Stalin, how was it sold? By the state?Yes, or by industrial or agricultural cooperatives IIRC.


Another question.... was the heavy industry (coal, oil, steel) exported?For trade, yes.


A commodity is a good or service produced for the purpose of exchange. With the exception of such produced for international trade, goods and services in the USSR were produced for use, not exchange.Except the Soviet Government still said that commodities existed, albeit under a new form.

[chegitz guevara]

Except the Soviet Government still said that commodities existed, albeit under a new form.

And we accept everything the USSR claimed?

[Ismail]

And we accept everything the USSR claimed?One would think that if the USSR stated it still had commodity production we'd believe them. Khrushchev claimed that the USSR would achieve communism by 1980, the last years of Stalin were spent claiming that the USSR was "building communism." It isn't like "we still have commodity production" is a big propaganda thing by contrast.

Stalin on commodity production in the USSR (see section 2, "Commodity Production Under Socialism"): http://www.marx2mao.com/Stalin/EPS52.html#c2

I mean of course you could dispute this. What do you think of Stalin's remarks?

A 1985 Soviet work (http://leninist.biz/en/1985/DOPE397/index.html) (after Stalin died his above-linked work was attacked as "left-deviationist") states the following: "In the socialist economy, the commodity is the product of directly socialised labour; it is manufactured in a planned way by socialist enterprises for the satisfaction of the social requirements and is channelled into consumption through planned commodity exchange."

[Comrade1]

Now if consumer goods were sold by the state and made at state owned factories, does this make sense.... if the state sells the product for more than it is worth and uses the surplus value on health care and education, is that bad?

[ComradeOm]

Having actually read the work, it doesn't deserve the demonized reputation it has gotten since its publication.It does. What with being a work of rank apologism and all. You'll get more of an insight into the workings of Soviet society from the likes of this (http://www.essential-architecture.com/STYLE/M11-Roses_for_Stalin_by_Vladimirskij.jpg) than you will the grossly inaccurate gushings of the Webbs. In more than one place it is simply offensive (the ultimate responsibility for millions of dead Ukrainians lies with, well, the wider Ukrainian population? Really?) but the rest bears little relation to reality. There is no excuse for recommending this garbage in the Learning forum, not when there are far superior works avialable


Thanks for the links guys and if such consumer goods were made in the USSR under Stalin, how was it sold? By the state?Yes. Its slightly more complex than that, but state bodies were responsible for the distribution and sale of goods. Access to these was controlled through a system of tiered stores in which the best quality produce was reserved for the more privileged sections of society. In the process the state made a profit through its 'turnover tax' on goods sold


Another question.... was the heavy industry (coal, oil, steel) exported?Depends on the period. During the Stalin years the domestic demand for these products was critical enough that little of these was exported. Timber and agricultural produce were the mainstays of the export trade. In later eras however the likes of oil and machine tools were exported in some numbers

[Ismail]

Now if consumer goods were sold by the state and made at state owned factories, does this make sense.... if the state sells the product for more than it is worth and uses the surplus value on health care and education, is that bad?The formula seemed to work like this:

More productivity by factory workers = higher wages (due to harder work), more productivity means more goods.
At the same time efforts were made to lower the costs of production, which in turn would entail the continuous lowering of prices.


In more than one place it is simply offensive (the ultimate responsibility for millions of dead Ukrainians lies with, well, the wider Ukrainian population? Really?)The Soviets emphasized that kulak sabotage was at the heart of food shortages, which was obviously an exaggeration. At the time the Webbs wrote their book they said that a famine didn't even occur, since that was the Soviet position. The Webbs were not in a position to report anything else and the Soviet officials they asked reiterated that problems were ascribable either to sabotage or to "excesses."

The book is dated, but to write it all off is immature. I don't see any real issue with the book describing the economic planning apparatuses of the USSR, for instance. It's a large, two-volume work which deals with various aspects of the Soviet state and society. I also recommended it in part because it is freely available online (though I have both volumes in binded form.)

[Kiev Communard]

A 1985 Soviet work (http://leninist.biz/en/1985/DOPE397/index.html) (after Stalin died his above-linked work was attacked as "left-deviationist") states the following: "In the socialist economy, the commodity is the product of directly socialised labour; it is manufactured in a planned way by socialist enterprises for the satisfaction of the social requirements and is channelled into consumption through planned commodity exchange."

This last definition is rather confused one. If there is no market exchange and the "directly socialized labor" is in existence, then why call the products "commodities"? If there is "commodity exchange" ("planned commodity exchange" is in my view a contradiction in terms, as even modern capitalist corporations do not have perfect exchange plans for their commodities), then the directly socialized labor does not really exist.

[Comrade1]

can you explain turnover tax or a link about it, and thanks for the help with the heavy industry comrade :)

[Comrade1]

wait so how did the soviet state make money of selling the consumer goods

[Aurorus Ruber]

What sort of venue did they use to sell goods and services? In the West, of course, we typically buy stuff from shops and stores owned by individual shop keepers (at least before Walmart came along). Where would someone in the Soviet Union have gone to get a haircut or buy a piece of furniture?

[Ismail]

What sort of venue did they use to sell goods and services? In the West, of course, we typically buy stuff from shops and stores owned by individual shop keepers (at least before Walmart came along). Where would someone in the Soviet Union have gone to get a haircut or buy a piece of furniture?The USSR still had haircutting places and shops to buy furniture. The latter were state-owned. As for the former I think barbers were treated as members of an enterprise, so for instance a factory or collective might have its own barber.

[Comrade1]

how did the state make profit to run healthcare and education???

[ComradeOm]

The Soviets emphasized that kulak sabotage was at the heart of food shortages, which was obviously an exaggeration. At the time the Webbs wrote their book they said that a famine didn't even occur, since that was the Soviet position. The Webbs were not in a position to report anything else and the Soviet officials they asked reiterated that problems were ascribable either to sabotage or to "excesses."And the Webbs were perfectly happy to regurgitate these propaganda lies. Its not hard to understand the terrible reputation of this book. What is harder to understand is why anyone would recommend it while knowing that it was hopelessly compromised by such relentless apologism

If you want a free work that introduces the basis of Soviet society (albeit in the late 1920s) then Brailsford's How the Soviets work (http://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/index.htm) is infinitely more useful. Not least because the author remembers that his job is to inform his readers, not merely repeat whatever a Soviet state official says


can you explain turnover tax or a link about itEssentially it was a retail tax on all consumer goods (technically all produce but rates were far lower on capital goods). Its composition could vary wildly between place, time and good, but it was typically at least ten per cent of the value of the good sold. Considerably more during the Stalinist period. Basically it was the difference between the sales price and the enterprise profit plus cost. The turnover tax was, by some distance, the single largest source of revenue for the Soviet government

That's all I can recall off the top of my head. Its covered in more detail in Nove's An Economic History of the USSR. This is the standard single-volume work on the Soviet economy and I highly recommend it


wait so how did the soviet state make money of selling the consumer goodsTurnover tax plus the profits made by state enterprises

[Arlekino]

Furniture we purchased and furniture shops. Hair cuts we did at hairdressers. All shops owned by government. Hairdresser or taxi drive gets salary and of course tips in own pocket which tips in those days was kind of illegal but most of workers dont take any notice. About factories interesting thoughts workers worked for salary but taking goods for free I mean (stealing) You can ask any Soviet worker they will say oh yes I take this from factory no matter what gods (steal, food, or wood).

[Ismail]

If you want a free work that introduces the basis of Soviet society (albeit in the late 1920s) then Brailsford's How the Soviets work (http://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/index.htm) is infinitely more useful. Not least because the author remembers that his job is to inform his readers, not merely repeat whatever a Soviet state official saysFor what it's worth, the Webbs did cite various English, German and French authors of the time on various aspects of local and national governance. Brailsford gets a (brief) mention in the book amongst other authors. The Webbs weren't as lucky when it came to the Ukrainian famine, which was still a recent event when they wrote their work.

[Comrade1]

ok so basically the soviet government made profit by putting a tax on consumer goods. And how did the government compensate all workers wages?

[Red_Struggle]

Ok, getting off topic here, but I want to clear things up about the Webbs' claims on the Ukrainian famine. Their book was written in 1935 when actual information about this incident was just starting to bud, disregarding right wing claims that it was a genocide famine. Although their explaintation for the famine is pretty far off, it would be incorrect to write off the entire book as simply "apologism." To counter these claims, I am going to cite a few sources before moving back to the original topic:

"For two years farming was dislocated, not, as often claimed, by Moscow's enforcement of collectivization but by the fact that local people eager to be first at the promised tractors, organized collective farms three times as fast as the plan called for, setting up large-scale farming without machines even without bookkeepers. In 1932-33 the whole land went hungry; all food everywhere was rigidly rationed. (It has been often called a famine which killed millions of people, but I visited the hungriest parts of the country and while I found a wide-spread suffering, I did not find, either in individual villages or in the total Soviet census, evidence of the serious depopulation which famine implies.)"
Strong, Anna L. The Soviets Expected It. New York, New York: The Dial press, 1941, p. 69

"...contrary to wild stories told by Ukrainian Nationalist exiles about "Russians" eating plentifully while deliberately starving "millions" of Ukrainians to death, the New Republic notes that while bread prices in Ukraine were falling, "bread prices in Moscow have risen."...
It is a matter of some significance that Cardinal Innitzer's allegations of famine-genocide were widely promoted throughout the 1930s, not only by Hitler's chief propagandist Goebbels, but also by American Fascists as well. It will be recalled that Hearst kicked off his famine campaign with a radio broadcast based mainly on material from Cardinal Innitzer's "aid committee." In Organized Anti-Semitism in America, the 1941 book exposing Nazi groups and activities in the pre-war United States, Donald Strong notes that American fascist leader Father Coughlin used Nazi propaganda material extensively. This included Nazi charges of "atrocities by Jew Communists" and verbatim portions of a Goebbels speech referring to Innitzer's "appeal of July 1934, that millions of people were dying of hunger throughout the Soviet Union." "
Tottle, Douglas. Fraud, Famine, and Fascism. Toronto: Progress Books,1987, p. 49-51

"QUESTION: Is it true that during 1932-33 several million people were allowed to starve to death in the Ukraine and North Caucasus because they were politically hostile to the Soviets?
ANSWER: Not true. I visited several places in those regions during that period. There was a serious grain shortage in the 1932 harvest due chiefly to inefficiencies of the organizational period of the new large-scale mechanized farming among peasants unaccustomed to machines. To this was added sabotage by dispossessed kulaks, the leaving of the farms by 11 million workers who went to new industries, the cumulative effect of the world crisis in depressing the value of Soviet farm exports, and a drought in five basic grain regions in 1931. The harvest of 1932 was better than that of 1931 but was not all gathered; on account of overoptimistic promises from rural districts, Moscow discovered the actual situation only in December when a considerable amount of grain was under snow."
Strong, Anna Louise. “Searching Out the Soviets.” New Republic: August 7, 1935, p. 356

From the same source: "Opposing the tendency of many Communists to blame the peasants, Stalin said: "We Communists are to blame"--for not foreseeing and preventing the difficulties. Several organizational measures were at once put into action to meet the immediate emergency and prevent its reoccurrence. Firm pressure on defaulting farms to make good the contracts they had made to sell 1/4 their crop to the state in return for machines the state had given them (the means of production contributed by the state was more than all the peasants' previous means) was combined with appeals to loyal, efficient farms to increase their deliveries voluntarily. Saboteurs who destroyed grain or buried it in the earth were punished. The resultant grain reserves in state hands were rationed to bring the country through the shortage with a minimum loss of productive efficiency. The whole country went on a decreased diet, which affected most seriously those farms that had failed to harvest their grain. Even these, however, were given state food and seed loans for sowing.
Simultaneously, a nationwide campaign was launched to organize the farms efficiently; 20,000 of the country's best experts in all fields were sent as permanent organizers to the rural districts. The campaign was fully successful and resulted in a 1933 grain crop nearly 10 million tons larger than was ever gathered from the same territory before."


Now to get back on topic, here are some citations pertaining to factory management and the economy:

"The new class of state managers, or "red directors" of factories, who have replaced the former capitalist owners, are mostly Communists and former workers. But by the very nature of their position they must look at industrial life from a rather different angle from that of the workers. Although they make no personal profit out of the
enterprises which they manage, they are supposed to turn in a profit for the state."
Chamberlin, William Henry. Soviet Russia. Boston: Little, Brown,
1930, p. 174

"The liberties enjoyed by workers in Russia, whether or not in unions (less than 10 percent are outside), go far beyond those of workers inmother countries, not only in their participation in controlling working conditions and wages, but in the privileges they get as a class. The eight-hour day is universal in practice, alone of all countries in the
world, with a six-hour day in dangerous occupations like mining. Reduction of the eight-hour day to seven hours is already planned for all industries. Every worker gets a two-week vacation with pay, while office workers and workers in dangerous trades, get a month. No worker can be dismissed from his job without the consent of his union. His
rent, his admission to places of entertainment or education, his transportation- -all these he gets at lower prices than others. When unemployed he gets a small allowance from his union, free rent, free transportation, and free admission to places of entertainment and instruction. Education and medical aid are free to all workers--or for small fees--extensive services being especially organized for and by them."
Baldwin, Roger. Liberty Under the Soviets, New York: Vanguard
Press, 1928, p. 29-30

"The income of the individual citizen was increased by 370% in the last eight years--with only irrelevant income taxes and reasonable social security contributions imposed upon them--while it dropped almost everywhere else in the world."
Ludwig, Emil, Stalin. New York, New York: G. P. Putnam's sons, 1942, p. 129

[Comrade1]

Ok but what I want to know is how the state can make a profit to support the state run healthcare and education and benefits for all people:confused:

[Comrade1]

Also I understand that the USSR used the oil and coal in produced but i dont understand what it did with all of its steel :confused: and why does it say here consumer goods were neglected by Stalin... http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Stalin.htm

[Red_Struggle]

Also I understand that the USSR used the oil and coal in produced but i dont understand what it did with all of its steel :confused: and why does it say here consumer goods were neglected by Stalin... http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Stalin.htm

Industrialization was necessary in order to build up the infastructure and the means of production in order to set the material base for the production of better consumer goods, although they were still neglected in favor of industrialization.

Basically, the USSR needed industrialization in order to build up its defences, factories, and manufacturing capabilities. Without this, better consumer goods were out of question.

[Robespierre Richard]

Also I understand that the USSR used the oil and coal in produced but i dont understand what it did with all of its steel :confused: and why does it say here consumer goods were neglected by Stalin... http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Stalin.htm

Steel is used of construction of buildings such as factories and logistics (railroads, railroad cars, ships, automobiles), which are necessary to achieve a large volume of production. Investment in primary and secondary industries however did mean decreased investment in light industry which meant a decreased amount of those goods as the population grew.

[Comrade1]

ok so I understand and thanks everyone, just one question lol (sorry) how did the government make money? tax on consumer goods?

[Comrade1]

Also, did the soviet people pay for food or was it government provided? between 1928-1953

[Ismail]

Tax on consumer goods and profit from state-owned enterprises, mostly.

And yes workers paid for food throughout the whole history of the USSR, although Bill Bland once noted the following experiment:

JP: This is backtracking a bit, but I think that you visited the Soviet Union before the war?

WB: I went on holiday, in 1937.

JP: I think that when you were there they were trying the experiment of making bread free in the shops?

WB: They took the view at that time that communism was something to be introduced by instalments, not over night, not all at once in every field but gradually so that once production in a particular commodity became sufficient so this particular article could be communised, and at that time in Moscow I was informed that bread was now free. You could go into a shop and help yourself. Nothing else as far as I know, bread, yes.

JP: And they didn't have people cleaning out the bakeries and taking all the bread?

WB: It worked. After all, you don't, in most parts of the country, pay for your water by the gallon, it doesn't mean you turn your tap on deliberately just to get something for nothing. People don't, and I think its only a small step to changing peoples attitudes to realise that there is no point in taking more than you want.