new kids on the black bloc

[bcbm]

NEW KIDS ON THE BLACK BLOC (http://www.viceland.com/wp/2011/04/new-kids-on-the-black-bloc/)

http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/100_0209-1-635x423.jpg (http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/100_0209-1.jpg)
Last month, at the riots surrounding the TUC protest on March 26th (http://www.viceland.com/wp/2011/03/the-riots-having-fun-smashing-shit-up/), I was surprised to keep bumping into groups of masked-up teenagers. I’ve known lots of the old anarchist guys who’ve been fighting the police for decades, but this was something different. Seeing young members of the black bloc at protests in Europe is very common, but in England it’s totally new.
I went to meet some of the new kids on the black bloc as well as some of the old guard, to find out why anarchism in the UK is getting an adolescent kick up the arse.

http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dsc_0134-635x421.jpg (http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dsc_0134.jpg)
Andy is 16, he spends his life dossing around his mates’ flats and he rolls a mean skunk spliff. Michelle is 17 and she lives with her mum and is studying for her A-Levels.
Hello Andy and Michelle. What made you get into anarchism and the black bloc? Isn’t politics all a bit BORING for teenagers?
Andy: I’d never been on a demo in my life till I started going to some of the schoolkids protests last year. We just went for a laugh really, and cos we’d heard it might kick off with the old bill. We saw a few of the gangs from round our way hanging about Trafalgar Square, but when we saw the black bloc arrive, all masked up in their hoodies we thought, “Fucking hell! Now THAT’s what you call a gang!” Especially when we saw them giving it back to the cops when they were charged. You don’t even see football hooligans that up for it.
So it was the student protests in 2010 that politicised you?
Yeah, if you’d spoken to me a year ago I wouldn’t have had a fucking clue about politics or anarchy or any of that, but after we spoke to a few of the black bloc lot we sussed they were sound and not student mugs. Me and a couple of my mates went along to meet up with them at the start of the next protest they were turning up to so we didn’t miss any of the action. We got to know each other and it all started from there I suppose.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dsc_0184-635x421.jpg (http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dsc_0184.jpg)
How about you Michelle?
Michelle: My experience is pretty similar to Andy’s really, I also knew a few black bloc anarchists from the student and schoolkids protests. They seemed nice folk and dedicated to what they were doing. I suppose what really did it for me was when I went to the Climate Camp at the G20 and the cops attacked it. It was terrifying. And a lot of the black bloc folk I knew – in fact I’m not sure they called themselves the black bloc then – were there fighting back, which gave a lot of other folk some strength and probably saved someone there from being killed.
That was a bad day for the cops.
When you see something like that it really makes you realise, “Yeah, it really IS a ‘them and us’ situation now”. Seeing the way the cops just went mental, attacking folk, and then killed Ian Tomlinson, turned a lot of people towards the black bloc in the same way I’ve read the events on Bloody Sunday turned a lot of folk towards the IRA. So you could say they’ve only got themselves to blame when people get angry and want to attack the cops on other demos. It’s us getting our own back.
http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dsc_0202-635x421.jpg (http://www.viceland.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dsc_0202.jpg)
Obviously you’re too young to vote, but what made you turn your backs on mainstream politics and take to the streets?
Andy: All I can remember of politics is Tony fuckin’ Blair. He’s meant to be Labour; the party of the working class. Now we’ve got two posh ****s in power and I can’t see any difference. They’re all lying, corrupt bastards who are out for themselves. How are they going to speak for me? That Clegg only lives a few miles from where I’m from, but it may as well be on the other side of the world for all he knows about how we live. If you ask me the only thing that gets the attentions of politicians is the sound of smashing shop windows and police sirens.


continued:
http://www.viceland.com/wp/2011/04/new-kids-on-the-black-bloc/2/

[Devrim]

Pretty much every protest and demo these days seems to end up in a riot.

When I lived in London in the late 80s there were (at least) weekly battles between the police and thousands on workers. Half of these 'riots' nowadays are things that probably we wouldn't have even noticed back in those days, let alone the media. A lot has been made about the riot on the students demo, but the impression that I get from afar is that it was pretty small scale. A sense of perspective is needed.

Devrim

[Rooster]

We just went for a laugh really, and cos we’d heard it might kick off with the old bill. We saw a few of the gangs from round our way hanging about Trafalgar Square, but when we saw the black bloc arrive, all masked up in their hoodies we thought, “Fucking hell! Now THAT’s what you call a gang!” Especially when we saw them giving it back to the cops when they were charged. You don’t even see football hooligans that up for it.

So... he just went to cause trouble?

[Os Cangaceiros]

When I lived in London in the late 80s there were (at least) weekly battles between the police and thousands on workers. Half of these 'riots' nowadays are things that probably we wouldn't have even noticed back in those days, let alone the media. A lot has been made about the riot on the students demo, but the impression that I get from afar is that it was pretty small scale. A sense of perspective is needed.

Devrim

I don't think there's any kind of objective measure for what is and isn't a riot. The media here in the states calls just about any demonstration involving property damage to be a "riot", including events with absolutely no political connotations (such as the Oakland raiders losing their superbowl bid, or the LA Lakers winning, LOL)

In times of great strife and conflict, of course a small-scale act of disobediance is going to be ignored. In times of relative passivity it's going to be noticed. That seems pretty simple, right? I don't really see the point of saying "WELL BACK IN MY DAY."

[Os Cangaceiros]

What is it with Vice and weird leftist stuff, anyways? I've seen them do articles about French insurrectos, Italian anarchists and now this...

[bcbm]

What is it with Vice and weird leftist stuff, anyways? I've seen them do articles about French insurrectos, Italian anarchists and now this...

theyre hipsters...

[RedSonRising]

The kid doesn't seem to politicized in terms of anti-capitalist theory and whatnot, but if there is a revolutionary culture building amidst youth like this, then good. Being able to fraternize with fellow participants in class struggle and identify the bourgeois state as the enemy is important for developing a movement.

[PhoenixAsh]

These kids do not seem to be politicised? Well...I think they are getting there. But then again. They are kids and everybody needs to remember that.

The fact that these kids are radicalizing is a good sign. They get the impression that they are up against the establishment and that it needs to be fought and that, in current society, "privileges" need to be defended and litterally and figuratively fought over.

Now that they have made that step its up to the existing radical community to help politicise them further.

[El Chuncho]

These people will not have any luck. Random acts of violence and anarchy will not win a revolution. You have to plan and organize. :rolleyes:

[Devrim]

In times of great strife and conflict, of course a small-scale act of disobediance is going to be ignored. In times of relative passivity it's going to be noticed. That seems pretty simple, right? I don't really see the point of saying "WELL BACK IN MY DAY."

My point wasn't about 'back in my day'. It was about a general understanding of the situation. These are times of, as you put it, relative passivity, and getting all excited about a few bricks being thrown doesn't really change that. My point was that what are really small actions get wrapped up in so much hyperbole.

Devrim

[bricolage]

I don't think there has been any riots, the student demos were something of note qualitatively in terms of the people involved with them, the terrain and the scope of the action, I suppose even quantitatively in relative terms to the last 10/20 years. I think they did represent a rupture of sorts, albeit a small one. Especially the first one and the last one exposed a lot of naked conflict with the state, saw a rapid radicalisation of ideas and action and saw agency seized those often marginalised by both mainstream liberalism and leftist sensibilities. I suppose the whole thing has probably been overhyped (but then what isn't these days?) but within it there was some genuine class militancy to take into account.

However the stuff on March 26 was for the vast part straight outta activism, I don't think it was really any different from previous spectaculist actions except to do with the marginally raised numbers and how journos have been jacking off over it. When I hear people talk about 'M26' as if it were some great insurrection of our times I can't help but cringe, it would better be called 'the day that lots of people walked around and some people ran around'. 30 years ago in Brixton, that was a riot. You don't plan riots.

[Futility Personified]

I think the guy being radicalised is kinda optimistic. Michelle sounds a little more into it, whereas he seems up for the conflict more than anything else.

[Rafiq]

When I lived in London in the late 80s there were (at least) weekly battles between the police and thousands on workers. Half of these 'riots' nowadays are things that probably we wouldn't have even noticed back in those days, let alone the media. A lot has been made about the riot on the students demo, but the impression that I get from afar is that it was pretty small scale. A sense of perspective is needed.

Devrim

Is there any particular reason for the weakening of class struggle nowadays?

[Savage]

I think this is a good sign, though I'd hope these people are interested in Anarchism specifically from a class struggle position, rather than some pseudo-Anarchist, life style trend, like so many people I know.

[Dimmu]

These people will not have any luck. Random acts of violence and anarchy will not win a revolution. You have to plan and organize. :rolleyes:

Look at the recent revolutions in ME, most of them have been spontaneous.

[Devrim]

Is there any particular reason for the weakening of class struggle nowadays?

I think that really Rafiq, you have to go back to the defeats of the 80s, which were massive. The following decade, the 90s were terrible years for the working class. Over the past ten years, I think that it is safe to say that there have been signs of a slow, but sure recovery. It is just keeping the extent of that recovery in perspective.

Devrim

[nuisance]

People need to get off their high horses of what correct activity and 'proper' anarchism is. What we see here is people being radicialised through their own revolutionary subjectivity, which is a hell of alot more fercious and willing to stand the test than some dick who read Marx and saw the light.
We must first come to daggers with the existent afterall, which means, for many, the will to smash out of the phyisical and social totality of capital.
Fuck anarchism! Up anarchy!

[Savage]

People need to get off their high horses of what correct activity and 'proper' anarchism is. What we see here is people being radicialised through their own revolutionary subjectivity, which is a hell of alot more fercious and willing to stand the test than some dick who read Marx and saw the light.
I don't know who in particular in this thread you are criticizing, but we have every right to question the class content of any given subject, no one was criticizing them for taking action, but rather analyzing whether these people are radical or whether they are dumb punk kids caught in a fad.

[IndependentCitizen]

These people will not have any luck. Random acts of violence and anarchy will not win a revolution. You have to plan and organize. :rolleyes:

From my understanding, anarchism relies on grass-roots organisation to succeed. The black bloc didn't just 'violently' attack random targets, they attacked symbols of wealth, oppression and the causes of the capitalists' wet-dream, a financial crisis.

If people are taking up the idea of black bloc, then they're gaining momentum, and it's just a matter of time people begin to read into political thought. Right now, people are furious, don't forget that. Black bloc gave them the opportunity to carry forward their anger.

And what violence? How can you be violent towards property? It's just justified vandalism. Every act of black bloc on the 26th was justified, and I'll defend their actions regardless if they were anarchist, or just an angry citizen, frustrated that they're not being heard. I hate to quote them, but Rage Against the Machine were right in 'calm like a bomb' through the use of that line, and riot will be the rhyme of the unheard.

[nuisance]

I don't know who in particular in this thread you are criticizing,
No one in particular and I suppose anyone who holds an ideology above an individuals own revolutionary subectivity.

but we have every right to question the class content of any given subject, no one was criticizing them for taking action,
As for class, what do you mean? The lad, Andy, speaks with a strong distaste for rich politicians, like Clegg, who can't imagine what life is like for people like him- to paraphrase his own words. Going on from this he can identify with the black bloc like a gang- the way many urban working class youth see the world and sympathisers of anarchist crew strutures.



but rather analyzing whether these people are radical or whether they are dumb punk kids caught in a fad.
Who the fuck do you think you are, or think revleft is? Some sort of vetting system for tr0o revolutionaries? The arrogance of the left is bewildering, you honestly think you are in a position to reject and quiz kids being radicalised? No wonder they're not hooking up with Communists! :lol:

[Savage]

No one in particular and I suppose anyone who holds an ideology above an individuals own revolutionary subectivity.
No one was saying that.


As for class, what do you mean? The lad, Andy, speaks with a strong distaste for rich politicians, like Clegg, who can't imagine what life is like for people like him- to paraphrase his own words. Going on from this he can identify with the black bloc like a gang- the way many urban working class youth see the world and sympathisers of anarchist crew strutures.
Analyzing the class content of someone's politics isn't about determining what class they fall under, proletarians can indeed have very reactionary politics.


Who the fuck do you think you are, or think revleft is? Some sort of vetting system for tr0o revolutionaries? The arrogance of the left is bewildering, you honestly think you are in a position to reject and quiz kids being radicalised? No wonder they're not hooking up with Communists!
You are an idiot. Theorizing about class struggle politics involves an understanding of the context of events and putting them into perspective, as Devrim said. These kids (I am a similar age to them) could well maintain a class line, but of course they should be questioned if it is a possibility that they are only interested in Anarchism as a fad, based on some puerile gang mentality.

[Delenda Carthago]

I think this is a good sign, though I'd hope these people are interested in Anarchism specifically from a class struggle position, rather than some pseudo-Anarchist, life style trend, like so many people I know.
Yes, the "we are fucking angry" banner shows that too.

[nuisance]

No one was saying that.
You did, by implementing grandoise ideas of 'class content' and the like over the sel-theory learned by these individuals, as if they are more important in their personal quest for liberation.



Analyzing the class content of someone's politics isn't about determining what class they fall under, proletarians can indeed have very reactionary politics.
You miss the point. I was not demonstrating the persons class, but rather their acknowledgment of a class system, the top of which is filled by people alien to him and his conditions.



You are an idiot.
:lol:


Theorizing about class struggle politics involves an understanding of the context of events and putting them into perspective, as Devrim said.
Only if it advances their personal position, which I'd hazard a guess at being so. But if they do not, then I have no right to moan that they do not follow my opinions. Then again, I'm anti-authoritarian.


These kids (I am a similar age to them) could well maintain a class line, but of course they should be questioned if it is a possibility that they are only interested in Anarchism as a fad, based on some puerile gang mentality.
People are most likely going to carry on if they are enjoying it, sad but true, and this is shown by many people who have burnt out or whatever. If you're not having fun then they've already won!
Again, why should you question them? It is not like you have the proven answers of social transformation.

[Delenda Carthago]

Plus, its not about the riots itself(although it has its significance what pushes young people to destroy the cities they live even if its not for a "serious cause"), but who does them,when,where, how and why. I have to disagree with my fellow Turk, the thing between the 80s riots and todays is not how many molotovs are throwned or how many banks are destroyed. Matter of fact, a single bank getting smashed in (the non-rioting 2009) London might have bigger significance that 10 burned banks in Athens.

The big thing is that back then it was mostly workers who had a plan and rioted for a more specific cause. Thats the difference.

[black magick hustla]

:cool:fucking insurrectos ruining this thread go to your woodwork and stay there

[Savage]

You did, by implementing grandoise ideas of 'class content' and the like over the sel-theory learned by these individuals, as if they are more important in their personal quest for liberation.
I was asking the question whether or not it even is a quest for liberation, I you understood it as something else then I apologize.


You miss the point. I was not demonstrating the persons class, but rather their acknowledgment of a class system, the top of which is filled by people alien to him and his conditions.It seemed as if you were implying 'Proletarian=Radical'. Still, acknowledging capitalism is one thing, attempting to overcome one's alienation from the conditions of production is another, we were questioning whether these people are actually trying to do the later.



Only if it advances their personal position, which I'd hazard a guess at being so. But if they do not, then I have no right to moan that they do not follow my opinions. Then again, I'm anti-authoritarian.This comment really doesn't have any baring on what it was replying to, as for the 'anti-authoritarian' remark, If you are implying that my politics are 'authoritarian' then you have some reading to do.



People are most likely going to carry on if they are enjoying it, sad but true, and this is shown by many people who have burnt out or whatever. If you're not having fun then they've already won!
Again, why should you question them? It is not like you have the proven answers of social transformation.The relevance of this thread is dependent on the international class struggle. I don't particularily care, if at all, about some teenagers overseas having some fun by destroying stuff, but If we can determine that events like these are genuine expressions of the class struggle then we have something to congratulate them for, If not, it's simply not something relevant to this forum.

[nuisance]

I was asking the question whether or not it even is a quest for liberation, I you understood it as something else then I apologize.
Well they spoke about anarchy, so we can only presume that their radicalism does extend past the obvious hatered of normalacy. It's best not to look to deeply into the article, it's hardly indepth.


It seemed as if you were implying 'Proletarian=Radical'. Still, acknowledging capitalism is one thing, attempting to overcome one's alienation from the conditions of production is another, we were questioning whether these people are actually trying to do the later.
Again, re-read. The interviewees spoke about being influenced by black bloccers, which means their arguements and positions. They are participating in a group that wants to suspend normalacy in immediate terms, a process in overcoming their alienation- championing themselves over the phyiscal characterisitics of the state. Again though, we do not know the future of these individuals, but if they keep enjoying it and being a vent of frustration full of potenial, then they are going to carrying on and perhaps get more involved in the things some consider more fruitful.


This comment really doesn't have any baring on what it was replying to, as for the 'anti-authoritarian' remark, If you are implying that my politics are 'authoritarian' then you have some reading to do.
Yes, it does make sense, you simply do not understand it- perhaps you have not encountered such arguements before? I have read about left-communism...do not be so smug to believe that someone who disagrees with is ignorant. The reasoning I say it is authoritarian is that because it lays out a blueprint for a future society.


The relevance of this thread is dependent on the international class struggle.
Why? What do you mean by this?


I don't particularily care, if at all, about some teenagers overseas having some fun by destroying stuff, but If we can determine that events like these are genuine expressions of the class struggle then we have something to congratulate them for, If not, it's simply not something relevant to this forum.
I think there's no denying that this is class against class action. However, even if it was action solely for the sake of it, then it would be still relevant, since the destructive urge is a finely cultivated of hierarchical society (civilisation).

[Savage]

Well they spoke about anarchy, so we can only presume that their radicalism does extend past the obvious hatered of normalacy. It's best not to look to deeply into the article, it's hardly indepth.
Speaking about Anarchy doesn't make you an Anarchist, for them it could be nothing more than a life style trend, but you're right, it's best not to look into the article...I don't know why we are still talking about it...



Again, re-read. The interviewees spoke about being influenced by black bloccers, which means their arguements and positions.Not necessarily, comments such as 'Now that's a real gang!' would suggest they don't particularly care about their arguments and positions, but I don't want to debate this.



I have read about left-communism...do not be so smug to believe that someone who disagrees with is ignorant. The reasoning I say it is authoritarian is that because it lays out a blueprint for a future society.I don't believe someone that doesn't agree with me is ignorant, you stated a fallacious assumption, which was ignorant, I have plenty of Anarchist friends. It's authoritarian because it lays out the blueprint for a future society?!? Do Anarchists not advocate class power via organs such as councils and assemblies??? Do Anarchists not advocate the abolition of commodity production, wage labor, the state???


Why? What do you mean by this?Refer to what Devrim said earlier.


I think there's no denying that this is class against class action. However, even if it was action solely for the sake of it, then it would be still relevant, since the destructive urge is a finely cultivated of hierarchical society (civilisation).I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by this, I think you may want to state this again.
I think the used by date of this thread has expired. If these people are class conscious and revolutionary, then great, If they're not, oh well.

[nuisance]

Not necessarily, comments such as 'Now that's a real gang!' would suggest they don't particularly care about their arguments and positions, but I don't want to debate this.
That was his attraction to the bloc, which coming from an age group/urban setting where gang culture is becoming increasingly prevalent. It does look impressive. Rather run with a crew of bloccers than the stereotypical lefty people have the idea of.



I don't believe someone that doesn't agree with me is ignorant, you stated a fallacious assumption, which was ignorant, I have plenty of Anarchist friends. It's authoritarian because it lays out the blueprint for a future society?!? Do Anarchists not advocate class power via organs such as councils and assemblies??? Do Anarchists not advocate the abolition of commodity production, wage labor, the state???
No, it is a difference of opinion, it is only ignorance if the position is birthed out of lack of knowledge.
In regards to anarchists and blueprints, no. Some may, however they would be authoritarian also. Anarchists propose/suggest forms of non-hierarchical social organisation but but do not desire to implement or coerce people into these. Then we have anarchists who merely want to make a complete break from the existent and swim into the murky depths of the unknown. There is no consensus.



I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by this, I think you may want to state this again.
I think the used by date of this thread has expired. If these people are class conscious and revolutionary, then great, If they're not, oh well.
My bad, typo, sorry!
I was saying that random smashing comes from alienation, created by hierarchical society. Therefore it is something to do with this board.
I agree that this has probably run its course. :)

[Savage]

That was his attraction to the bloc, which coming from an age group/urban setting where gang culture is becoming increasingly prevalent. It does look impressive. Rather run with a crew of bloccers than the stereotypical lefty people have the idea of.
Ok, fair enough.


No, it is a difference of opinion, it is only ignorance if the position is birthed out of lack of knowledge.
In regards to anarchists and blueprints, no. Some may, however they would be authoritarian also. Anarchists propose/suggest forms of non-hierarchical social organisation but but do not desire to implement or coerce people into these. Then we have anarchists who merely want to make a complete break from the existent and swim into the murky depths of the unknown. There is no consensus.
I thought your reply was birthed out of lack of knowledge, I apologize if it wasn't. Proposing non-hierarchical social organisation (without enforcing people into them) counts as a blueprint in my book, but, this is just semantics. Left Communists also propose non-hierarchical social organization, wherein the working class has unchallenged power.


My bad, typo, sorry!
I was saying that random smashing comes from alienation, created by hierarchical society. Therefore it is something to do with this board.
I agree that this has probably run its course. :)
Oh ok, yes I agree with that then, though I believe understanding the context is important.

[agnixie]

No, it is a difference of opinion, it is only ignorance if the position is birthed out of lack of knowledge.
In regards to anarchists and blueprints, no. Some may, however they would be authoritarian also. Anarchists propose/suggest forms of non-hierarchical social organisation but but do not desire to implement or coerce people into these. Then we have anarchists who merely want to make a complete break from the existent and swim into the murky depths of the unknown. There is no consensus.
Platformism says ohai and wonders what bolded bit is trying to say.

[nuisance]

Platformism says ohai and wonders what bolded bit is trying to say.
:laugh:
Considering that I'm not really a 'lifestylist', though I am not one to shy away from making my life easier, what on earth do you mean?

[agnixie]

:laugh:
Considering that I'm not really a 'lifestylist', though I am not one to shy away from making my life easier, what on earth do you mean?

I'm just moderately annoyed by the implication that having a form of blueprint (which I assume also includes minimum programs and platforms) is automatically authoritarian and non anarchist, which is only true if you're radically anti-platformism, IMHO.


EDIT - I won't hide it, I tend to kneejerkedly not trust the black bloc because half the BB types I've met were ultimately infiltrated cops, so the possibility of lifestyleists on top just makes me roll eyes. I might as well not pretend to conceal my bias behind fuzzy justifications :p

[nuisance]

BB you've met = 0 I would wager

[agnixie]

BB you've met = 0 I would wager

Unless you count cops, I can count them on the fingers of one hand. It's pretty damn common here (I mean cops posing as: it's gotten to the point of the courts slapping down one provincial police department for it)
I also don't do wagers.

And I don't do the whole "words have no meaning, everything is subjective" thing; you don't have anarchism without class consciousness, authoritarianism or not - and that's not what no consensus means.

EDIT for clarity: not that I particularly care either way, the kids at least do have consciousness. Also half was a figure of speech, it was most, thanks to blatant popo trying to show up at the most incongruous of places.

[No_Leaders]

Well they may just be teenagers but i think it's good they're getting aware of how the world really is. Even if it may seem like they're not as radical at the moment i'm sure getting more involved will open a broad horizon of different struggles and forms of oppression and they can see how all these things like sexism, racism, homophobia are all interrelated with one another and how they're all propped up by this system that teaches us to benefit from others suffering.

They'll get to that point in due time if not already. I'm sure we can all remember what radicalized us and made us more aware. My personal experience for me was just seeing things happening everyday in the world (the homeless on the streets, witnessing police brutality, etc) and of course listening to punk bands like propagandhi, crass, fifteen, and the broadways that made me really think. From there i started to read into things from karl marx, and then got into anarchism and read up all the stuff i could get my hands on. Then i started to actually get involved in activism and work with other comrades and here i am today! Point is, we all started off at some point in our lives not caring, and eventually there's things we notice that make us question. At that point we become radicals and start to realize capitalism and society for what it truly is. Kudos to these kids who are jumping right into the activism, radicalization will follow soon! :thumbup1:

[Dimmu]

Well they may just be teenagers but i think it's good they're getting aware of how the world really is. Even if it may seem like they're not as radical at the moment i'm sure getting more involved will open a broad horizon of different struggles and forms of oppression and they can see how all these things like sexism, racism, homophobia are all interrelated with one another and how they're all propped up by this system that teaches us to benefit from others suffering.

They'll get to that point in due time if not already. I'm sure we can all remember what radicalized us and made us more aware. My personal experience for me was just seeing things happening everyday in the world (the homeless on the streets, witnessing police brutality, etc) and of course listening to punk bands like propagandhi, crass, fifteen, and the broadways that made me really think. From there i started to read into things from karl marx, and then got into anarchism and read up all the stuff i could get my hands on. Then i started to actually get involved in activism and work with other comrades and here i am today! Point is, we all started off at some point in our lives not caring, and eventually there's things we notice that make us question. At that point we become radicals and start to realize capitalism and society for what it truly is. Kudos to these kids who are jumping right into the activism, radicalization will follow soon! :thumbup1:

Exactly, i dont understand why some people here unrealistically expect these teenagers to be experts in socialist history and theory, they are 16-17 for fks sake.

[bricolage]

hmmm, actually that vice article is quite interesting.