Khrushchev Thaw: Kaganovich's economic thaw?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Over the course of 1953-1956, the Soviet economic regime of socialist primitive accumulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_accumulation) was being cast aside.

First it was none other than Beria who, despite his Dengist inclinations, started to dismantle the GULAG system. A broad amnesty led to the release of a million inmates and over a longer period of time various criminal laws were reviewed and relaxed. The MVD's industrial apparatus was redistributed to the various industrial ministries.

However, was it really Khrushchev, Malenkov, and Bulganin who reversed the previous depression of real wages and value of saved currency? The minimum wage may have been introduced in 1956, but in 1955 the State Committee for Labour and Wages Problems (Goskomtrud) was established, and chaired by none other than an infamous member of the Presidium of the CC CPSU, Lazar Kaganovich.

Prior to this he was the very first head of the State Committee on Material and Technical Supply (Gossnab), spun off from Gosplan to facilitate the planned allocation of capital inputs and other production supplies to state enterprises.

[Meanwhile, not much has been written about Kaganovich's role in the restructuring of the sovkhozy and kolkhozy.]

[RED DAVE]

And?

Is there something here that revolutionary marxists should ponder?

RED DAVE

[Jose Gracchus]

Got to back up RED DAVE here, what the hell does this have to do with anything?

[Die Neue Zeit]

And?

Is there something here that revolutionary marxists should ponder?

It's something for the historical record, not for sectarian bickering. Just as Yuri Gagarin was not the first person in space due to a Soviet cover-up, the "Khrushchev Thaw" may be mislabelled in more ways than one.

[genstrike]

It's something for the historical record, not for sectarian bickering. Just as Yuri Gagarin was not the first person in space, the "Khrushchev Thaw" may be mislabelled in more ways than one.

except Gagarin was the first person in space

[Die Neue Zeit]

Off-topic: Look up the story of Soviet cosmonaut Vladimir Ilyushin.

[Jose Gracchus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ilyushin

Your research skills are ass. You need to stop taking unconfirmed say-so, rumors, third-hand hearsay, and six paragraph clippings out of whatever Google Books allows you to see of a professional work as definitive documentation of anything.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I have not read any book or watched any documentary on the Soviet space program in over a decade.

[Jose Gracchus]

Then I would at least Google a claim before wandering around presenting it as fact.

[ComradeOm]

I'm going to echo the above: And?

Its no secret that most of the moves to abandon the coercive Stalinist economy were taken by dedicated Stalinist bureaucrats. It was, for example, loyal Malenkov who first suggested increasing production of consumer goods. The idea that Khrushchev suddenly arrived with a horde of 'revisionists' to dismantle Stalin's system is nothing but a myth

[RED DAVE]

I'm going to echo the above: And?

Its no secret that most of the moves to abandon the coercive Stalinist economy were taken by dedicated Stalinist bureaucrats. It was, for example, loyal Malenkov who first suggested increasing production of consumer goods. The idea that Khrushchev suddenly arrived with a horde of 'revisionists' to dismantle Stalin's system is nothing but a mythIt's a convenient myth for Stalinists and Maoists who want to preserve their demigods and blame it all on the revisionists. Fact is, the so-called revisionists were full-fledged members of the bureaucracy and dedicated to its preservation as a class. They understood that they could not continue primitive accumulation. What they didn't understand was the inherent contradictions in state capitalism.

RED DAVE

[mosfeld]

Curiosity and scholarship is not allowed? If you don't have anything good to say, then how about not saying anything? There are probably a bunch of people that want to engage with him in a discussion about this, so why do you have to act like a bunch of stupid idiots and intentionally derail this thread and his effort?

[RED DAVE]

Curiosity and scholarship is not allowed? If you don't have anything good to say, then how about not saying anything? There are probably a bunch of people that want to engage with him in a discussion about this, so why do you have to act like a bunch of stupid idiots and intentionally derail this thread and his effort?After the revolution, curiosity, imagination, love, freedom and bright colors will all be made ILLEGAL as they are bourgeois deviations.

RED DAVE

[Jose Gracchus]

Curiosity and scholarship is not allowed? If you don't have anything good to say, then how about not saying anything? There are probably a bunch of people that want to engage with him in a discussion about this, so why do you have to act like a bunch of stupid idiots and intentionally derail this thread and his effort?

ComradeOm cited specific examples. If you wish to dispute the claims, why don't you try with substance, rather than just tsk tsking the manner of those who you find politically distasteful from the safety of Miss Manners' defense for DNZ's lame prompt.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Lame prompt? I'd like to know more about Kaganovich's role in labour and social policy after Stalin's death, beyond that which is mentioned in Chapter 2 of Shocking Mother Russia: Democratization, Social Rights, and Pension Reform by Andrea Chandler (http://books.google.ca/books?id=mMZf-2yawd8C) (despite his notorious roles in the Ukraine and the 17th Party Congress in the early 30s).

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I'm going to echo the above: And?

Its no secret that most of the moves to abandon the coercive Stalinist economy were taken by dedicated Stalinist bureaucrats. It was, for example, loyal Malenkov who first suggested increasing production of consumer goods. The idea that Khrushchev suddenly arrived with a horde of 'revisionists' to dismantle Stalin's system is nothing but a myth

Indeed, it is funny that (sorry, cannot remember source) when a British diplomat visited the USSR in the Kruschev era, he described a dinner party with Malenkov, Kruschev et al, and was very condescending about Kruschev and his notorious lack of subtlety, yet was extremely complementary about Malenkov, the Stalinist apparatchik. :rolleyes:

[RED DAVE]

Off-topic: Look up the story of Soviet cosmonaut Vladimir Ilyushin.Since you brought it up:


Major General Vladimir Sergeyevich Ilyushin (Russian: Владимир Сергеевич Ильюшин) (March 31, 1927 – March 1, 2010) was a Soviet general and noted test pilot, and the son of aerospace engineer Sergei Ilyushin. He spent most of his career as a test pilot for the Sukhoi OKB. In 1961, Ilyushin was the subject of spurious rumors that he, rather than Yuri Gagarin, was the first cosmonaut in space; according to the conspiracy theory, his mission had gone badly, and the Soviet Union had covered it up.

Spaceflight rumor

Two days before Gagarin's launch on April 12, 1961, Dennis Ogden wrote in the Western Communist newspaper the Daily Worker that the Soviet Union's announcement that Ilyushin had been involved in a serious car crash was really a cover story for an April 7, 1961 orbital spaceflight gone wrong. A similarly spurious story was told by French broadcaster Eduard Bobrovsky, but his version had the launch occurring in March, resulting in Ilyushin slipping into a coma. NORAD tracking stations, however, had no record of any such launch. Later that year, U.S. News & World Report transmitted the rumor by claiming that Gagarin had never flown and was merely a stand-in for the sickened Ilyushin. The 1999 film The Cosmonaut Cover-Up takes the position that Ilyushin was the first man in space and discusses the alleged cover-up in detail. The 2009 film "Fallen Idol: The Yuri Gagarin Conspiracy" also takes the same position and further goes to talk about the US efforts to continue the lie, even citing national security to not release information under the Freedom of Information Act. The data sought was the Tern Island CIA tracking station that covered and recorded Iluyshin's failed mission.

According to Mark Wade, editor of the space history Web site Encyclopedia Astronautica, "The entire early history of the Soviet manned space program has been declassified and we have piles of memoirs of cosmonauts, engineers, etc., who participated. We know who was in the original cosmonaut team, who never flew, was dismissed, or was killed in ground tests. Ilyushin is not one of them.(FNs removed)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ilyushin

RED DAVE

[Die Neue Zeit]

Indeed, it is funny that (sorry, cannot remember source) when a British diplomat visited the USSR in the Kruschev era, he described a dinner party with Malenkov, Kruschev et al, and was very condescending about Kruschev and his notorious lack of subtlety, yet was extremely complementary about Malenkov, the Stalinist apparatchik. :rolleyes:

Was Kaganovich's reputation of yelling and barking still untouched?

[A Marxist Historian]

Certainly Kaganovich's roleas opposed to that of other apparatchiks is merely of historical interest, and in some ways is kinda historical Trivial Pursuit. But that doesn't mean it isn't interesting to those interested in Soviet history, and in my book there is nothing more interesting than Soviet history.

Kaganovich had an interesting background. He came from a dirt poor Jewish family with big revolutionary credentials, and wasn't initially the big revolutionary in his family. One of his brothers was a Trotskyist and was shot, something Kag had to go along with but some claim he was not secretly thrilled about. One reason he was so irate and super-bossy. If he had to go along with shooting his own brother, why not anybody else?

His memoirs are fascinating, much more readable than Molotov's, as Kaganovich was much blunter and up front about what he believed. Chilling in places, as when he says yes, we tortured the Trotskyists, we had to, otherwise they never would have confessed. Unfortunately not yet translated into English. He died of a heart attack when Yeltsin seized power, at the age of god knows what, the very last of the Old Guard.

What's really interesting is some of his twists and turns around the Jewish question, as he was sort of an unofficial commissar for all Jewish affairs. Stalin's court Jew more or less. Stalin liked telling mildly anti-Semitic jokes, but never did that when Kaganovich was there, as that would be rude.

Naturally Kag was thrilled about supporting Israel in 1948. He came up with a bright idea about what to do about the Palestinians. Why not deport them all to Kazakhstan, and set up a Palestinian Soviet Republic for them? Didn't fly.

It's not surprising if he came out for raising workers wages when he got the chance. After all, he like Khrushchev got his start as a dirt poor worker. In fact, K got his start as Kaganovich's protege, as Kag liked workers and hated pretty much everybody else, and thought Khr was his kind of guy. Kag didn't mind shooting troublemaking workers, but he really *liked* shooting trouble making engineers and intellectuals.

-jh-