capitalism's waning popularity

[bcbm]

http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/04/09/ir/20110409_irc506.gif

RISING debt and lost output are the common measures of the cost of the financial crisis. But a new global opinion poll shows another, perhaps more serious form of damage: falling public support for capitalism. This is most marked in the country that used to epitomise free enterprise. In 2002, 80% of Americans agreed that the world’s best bet was the free-market system. By 2010 that support had fallen to 59%, only a little above the 54% average for the 25 countries polled. Nominally Communist China is now one of the world’s strongest supporters of capitalism, at 68%, up from 66% in 2002. Brazil scores 68% too. Germany squeaks into top place with 69%.

France, one of the world’s strongest economies, continues as an anti-capitalist outlier. Only 6% of French “strongly” support the free market, down from an already puny 8% in 2002. Add those who “somewhat agree” with capitalism’s superiority and the figure is 30%, down from 42% in 2002. Turkey (another free-market success story) had the same level of support then, but it has dropped even lower, to a mere 27%. In Europe only Spain seems to buck the trend, rising from 37% in 2002 to 51% . Indians, on paper big winners from free-market reforms, appear unimpressed: support has dropped to 58% from 73%.

Capitalism’s waning fortunes are starkly visible among Americans earning below $20,000. Their support for the free market has dropped from 76% to 44% in just one year. The research was conducted by GlobeScan, a polling firm. Its chairman Doug Miller says American business is “close to losing its social contract” with average families.

http://www.economist.com/node/18527446?story_id=18527446&fsrc=rss

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I guess the Chinese doesn't realise what they have is capitalism.

[Blackscare]

I guess the Chinese doesn't realise what they have is capitalism.


What do you mean? According to this graph, only China and Germany have seen a rise in the popularity of free-market economic attitudes. It seems like the Chinese are not only aware of capitalism, but embracing it to some extent.

[Agent Ducky]

What do you mean? According to this graph, only China and Germany have seen a rise in the popularity of free-market economic attitudes. It seems like the Chinese are not only aware of capitalism, but embracing it to some extent.

Or it could be interpreted that the Chinese interpret their state capitalism system as the "communism" that it calls itself, and they look around and see USA, other nations that call themself "capitalist" and go "I want that, it's better than what we have!" Therefore they go capitalism-that-everyone-else-has is better than capitalism-that-we-have (aka 'communism)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Who knows how reliable this is. Remember that Marx's Capital became a best seller in Germany soon after the crisis began.

I do think there is some general accuracy to the decline we see in the U.S., France and Britain. It's difficult to get behind a system that leaves you unemployed and out of a home. I think the rise in free market capitalist rhetoric to hysteric heights in the U.S., and the rise of nativist and rightist groups elsewhere, are related to that.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

What do you mean? According to this graph, only China and Germany have seen a rise in the popularity of free-market economic attitudes. It seems like the Chinese are not only aware of capitalism, but embracing it to some extent.

What I mean is that the Chinese might think that what they have is "socialism" and juxtapose their living standard with somewhere like Western Europe and think, "if only we had capitalism, maybe things would be better, like in Europe" or something? This isn't the first time China has had such results in polls like this.

[Gorilla]

capitalism’s waning fortunes are starkly visible among americans earning below $20,000. Their support for the free market has dropped from 76% to 44% in just one year

Wow.

[Luís Henrique]

I guess the Chinese doesn't realise what they have is capitalism.

The question wasn't about capitalism either, it was about "free market".

Luís Henrique

[Agent Ducky]

Free market is just a nicer name for capitalism. Capitalism sounds worse than free market. My friend observed this and suggested renaming communism to "Social freedom" because it sounds good and has freedom in it. :D

[agnixie]

What I mean is that the Chinese might think that what they have is "socialism" and juxtapose their living standard with somewhere like Western Europe and think, "if only we had capitalism, maybe things would be better, like in Europe" or something? This isn't the first time China has had such results in polls like this.

Alternately, it could be a sort of nationalist "capitalism has made China more powerful" reaction. It would probably have helped if the poll asked about support for the current system.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Free market is just a nicer name for capitalism. Capitalism sounds worse than free market. My friend observed this and suggested renaming communism to "Social freedom" because it sounds good and has freedom in it. :D

Avoid the word "freedom" and use "emancipation" instead, but that's off topic.

[chegitz guevara]

Free market is just a nicer name for capitalism.

Since capitalism can be well regulated, your statement is incorrect. Social democracy is capitalism, and opposition to free market policies could simply mean more people want regulation and safety nets.

[Agent Ducky]

Since capitalism can be well regulated, your statement is incorrect. Social democracy is capitalism, and opposition to free market policies could simply mean more people want regulation and safety nets.

I realize that capitalism can take many forms, etc. and 'free market' is a form of capitalism that any capitalist system can be closer to or further from.... But in general as I've observed free market system and capitalism are used interchangeably. As in, "capitalism is the free market system, and what 'capitalist countries' have now is a mix between socialism and capitalism." as in, regulations, all the stuff that doesn't make social democracy 'free market' are parts of socialism that are mixed with capitalism.

I've seen it used/defined different ways, it all depends on that person's definition of social democracy vs. capitalism, etc... They're all just words anyways O_o.

[Agent Ducky]

Ok, I just realized my above post didn't make that much sense. What I'm trying to say is that different people seem to have different definitions of free market system and since the topic at hand is an opinion poll, people's differing definitions would apply.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Ok, I just realized my above post didn't make that much sense. What I'm trying to say is that different people seem to have different definitions of free market system and since the topic at hand is an opinion poll, people's differing definitions would apply.

Let's also not forget that we do not know if the people conducting the poll used varying translations in the different countries. It's not impossible they did not actually use the translation of "free market" in all of them.

[Agent Ducky]

Let's also not forget that we do not know if the people conducting the poll used varying translations in the different countries. It's not impossible they did not actually use the translation of "free market" in all of them.

Exactly. It could've been used interchangeably with capitalism.

[ckaihatsu]

Okay, just dug this up -- remember, "market failure" is just *theoretical* so go easy...!


= )








Market failure is a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient. That is, there exists another conceivable outcome where market participants' overall gains from that outcome would outweigh their losses (even if some participants lose under the new arrangement). Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient – that can be improved upon from the societal point-of-view.[1][2]




According to mainstream economic analysis, a market failure (relative to Pareto efficiency) can occur for three main reasons.[2]
First, agents in a market can gain market power, allowing them to block other mutually beneficial gains from trades from occurring. This can lead to inefficiency due to imperfect competition, which can take many different forms, such as monopolies,[11] monopsonies, cartels, or monopolistic competition, if the agent does not implement perfect price discrimination. In a monopoly, the market equilibrium will no longer be Pareto optimal.[11] The monopoly will use its market power to restrict output below the quantity at which the marginal social benefit is equal to the marginal social cost of the last unit produced, so as to keep prices and profits high.[11] An issue for this analysis is whether a situation of market power or monopoly is likely to persist if unaddressed by policy, or whether competitive or technological change will undermine it over time.

Second, the actions of agents can have externalities,[5][11] which are innate to the methods of production, or other conditions important to the market.[2] For example, when a firm is producing steel, it absorbs labor, capital and other inputs, it must pay for these in the appropriate markets, and these costs will be reflected in the market price for steel.[11] If the firm also pollutes the atmosphere when it makes steel, however, and if it is not forced to pay for the use of this resource, then this cost will be borne not by the firm but by society.[11] Hence, the market price for steel will fail to incorporate the full opportunity cost to society of producing.[11] In this case, the market equilibrium in the steel industry will not be optimal.[11] More steel will be produced than would occur were the firm to have to pay for all of its costs of production.[11] Consequently, the marginal social cost of the last unit produced will exceed its marginal social benefit.[11]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure

[Red_Xan]

Most in America, you have to realize, don't know that under a "free market," themselves as well as their children would be virtual serfs, as in 1875. People forget what organized labour and market regulation has done for them.

[ComradeOm]

Let's also not forget that we do not know if the people conducting the poll used varying translations in the different countries. It's not impossible they did not actually use the translation of "free market" in all of them.If so that would make the poll itself worthless. Which is why I find it hard to believe that they did conflate laissez-faire and dirigisme - anyone capable of polling across several nations is unlikely to make such an elementary and unforgivable error

Because there is a world of difference between 'capitalism' and 'free-market'. Honestly I don't see the purpose in downplaying this or assuming that most people are too stupid to tell the difference between the two

[Agent Ducky]

If so that would make the poll itself worthless. Which is why I find it hard to believe that they did conflate laissez-faire and dirigisme - anyone capable of polling across several nations is unlikely to make such an elementary and unforgivable error

Because there is a world of difference between 'capitalism' and 'free-market'. Honestly I don't see the purpose in downplaying this or assuming that most people are too stupid to tell the difference between the two

I'm just going off the quoted text. It says "people thought free-market was best bet", ... which could imply a distinguished difference between capitalism and free market... and then it said something like "these people support capitalism, and these people don't" suggesting interchangeablility of free market and capitalism... I'm just going off the language used in the original thing...

[Dimmu]

Unfortunately many of these people believe that capitalism is the only way to live, because of the right's propaganda against anything socialist.

People need to realize that there are things that they can do in order to change everything around and the recent ME protests really show that its possible.