Ouattara supporters murder 800 Ivorians in Duékoué

[khad]

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Your beloved "democratically elected" president of the Ivory Coast has murdered more civilians more in a couple of days than all the violence caused by the government, rebels, and NATO up to this point in Libya. This level of violence was even unheard of during the decade of civil war in the Ivory Coast.

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity. For all your liberal scaremongering about the dangers of disrupting democratic process.

Neoliberal pig scum. I piss on your Satanic democracy.

[Aesop]

:confused:

Just because most people on this forum realise that gaddafi is no way an ally to working class and is part of ruling class doesn't mean that we support leaders that happen to be elected and use repressive methods towards their populace, i just can't understand your logic.

If you feel this forum is such a disgrace to the left why bother posting on it?

[khad]

:confused:

Just because most people on this forum realise that gaddafi is no way an ally to working class and is part of ruling class doesn't mean that we support leaders that happen to be elected and use repressive methods towards their populace, i just can't understand your logic.

If you feel this forum is such a disgrace to the left why bother posting on it?
This has nothing to do with Gaddafi. It's a comment for all the Ouattara supporters on the forum, who have even claimed that that IMF banker represents the working class.

It's also a comment on how little this forum cares about sub-Saharan Africa. You can take a guess as to what the motive is.

[agnixie]

Your beloved "democratically elected" president of the Ivory Coast has murdered more civilians more in a couple of days than all the violence caused by the government, rebels, and NATO up to this point in Libya. This level of violence was even unheard of during the decade of civil war in the Ivory Coast.

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity. For all your liberal scaremongering about the dangers of disrupting democratic process.

Neoliberal pig scum. I piss on your Satanic democracy.

You sound amazingly trollish for a mod. Also it's possible to see both sides as bad in a conflict.

[Sasha]

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity. For all your liberal scaremongering about the dangers of disrupting democratic process.


well why dont you leave then? you can leave your modship on the way out...

it would suit you if you would not selectively quote other users to imply they have positions they never actually expressed, its called an strawman and is bad form.
so for good measure and the benefit of other users i will provide the full quote:

i know the former northern rebels are no sweet bunnys, not by an longs shot. what fucking african "rebel" group ever is, because lets face it, the perpetual bloody civil wars run by the warlords is one of the greatest reasons vast area's of the continent are in such an shite state that they are.
but i also know that they started their rebellion because ghabo denied the countless Ivorians from an immigrant background who toil away in slavery like conditions in the cocoa-bean plantations owned by Ghabo's cronies a political voice, the right to vote.
I know liberal democracy is shite, but A. if you promise to play by those rules you should fucking well adhere to it and B. if you cant even lay claim to an meager 50.1% percent of the popular support, especially if you deny an vast amount of the proletariat an political voice you have even less claim to the power than the other fucker. Then you are quickly leaving the shite of liberal democracy and entering the horrors of tyranny.

Ghabo decided to not step down when it turned out he lost the elections thus knowingly and intentionally provoking an resurgence of the civil war, that doesn't mean i support any atrocity on the side of Outtara, that doesnt even mean i support Ouattara coming to power. It just means A. that i called you out for supporting Ghabo to stay in power and thus provoking this renewed civilwar including all the atrocities that come with it, B. that no matter how shit the liberal representative democracy system is, its better than dragging the proletariat in bloody conflicts between two bourgeois power hungry politicians.
There is no point for workers to die in struggle if the struggle is not in their interests what so ever. You on the other hand keep cheerleading all kinds of internal warmongering by the bourgeois and the repression of outbursts of proletarian discontent and reject the selfdefense of workers against tyranical suppression. so who is here the disgusting un-leftist?

[khad]

You sound amazingly trollish for a mod. Also it's possible to see both sides as bad in a conflict.
I'm sorry to dissappoint you, they estimate that a total of about 1500 civilians were killed on both sides during the civil war that started in 2002.

Having 800-1000 killed in a couple of days is unprecedented.

[khad]

Ghabo decided to not step down when it turned out he lost the elections thus knowingly and intentionally provoking an resurgence of the civil war, that doesn't mean i support any atrocity on the side of Outtara, that doesnt even mean i support Ouattara coming to power. It just means A. that i called you out for supporting Ghabo to stay in power and thus provoking this renewed civilwar including all the atrocities that come with it, B. that no matter how shit the liberal representative democracy system is, its better than dragging the proletariat in bloody conflicts between two bourgeois power hungry politicians.
There is no point for workers to die in struggle if the struggle is not in their interests what so ever. You on the other hand keep cheerleading all kinds of internal warmongering by the bourgeois and the repression of outbursts of proletarian discontent and reject the selfdefense of workers against tyranical suppression. so who is here the disgusting un-leftist?
You. And you certainly talk big for someone who couldn't be arsed to learn enough about the Ivorian situation to even spell Gbagbo with some phonetic accuracy.

Ouattara's rebels were busy massacring hundreds even when Gbagbo was the internationally recognized leader.


Abidjan, 28 February 2003 (IRIN) - Cote d'Ivoire's main rebel group, the Mouvement patriotique de Cote d'Ivoire (MPCI), executed dozens of gendarmes (paramilitary policemen) and some of their children in the central town of Bouake in October 2002, Amnesty
International reported this week. The report was denied by the MPCI, which called it a political diversion.

Amnesty said the victims were among some 60 gendarmes and a number of civilians, including about 50 of their children, who had been detained on 6 October by the MPCI. Some of the victims were executed in a military prison while others were killed at the site of a mass grave after being made to bury their comrades, according to testimonies which Amnesty investigators
who visited Cote d'Ivoire in December obtained from survivors of the massacre.This is why no one in their right mind believes Ouattara and his claims for a peaceful transition.

You told me to get killed in a nasty message you sent me. Given the true colors of these rebels you support I could very easily say something about you and genocide, but I certainly won't stoop as low as you.

[agnixie]

I'm sorry to dissappoint you, they estimate that a total of about 1500 civilians were killed on both sides during the civil war that started in 2002.

Having 800-1000 killed in a couple of days is unprecedented.

And both sides are led by violent plutocrats, only one is a feudalist and the other is a bourgeois capitalist. Whether it's unprecedented doesn't make either side good. It just makes both sides different shades of bad.

[Aesop]

It's also a comment on how little this forum cares about sub-Saharan Africa. You can take a guess as to what the motive is.

I severely doubt that the posters on rev left has a latent hatred for those who happen to live in that region of the world

[khad]

And both sides are led by violent plutocrats, only one is a feudalist and the other is a bourgeois capitalist. Whether it's unprecedented doesn't make either side good. It just makes both sides different shades of bad.
You can stick that unwanted opinion you know where.

What you had before was low level internecine strife. What you have now is a genocide that the UN is abetting.

[bailey_187]

ITT: Khad gets angry at forum members that dont exist

[Sasha]

uhhh, again, gbagbo only won the 2002 elections because he denied Ouattara and an vast proportion of the population political participation on racist grounds.

again, atrocity's are bad mkay... while there is ample evidence for massmurder by Ghabgo's troops too i'm not going to let you drag me into an silly numbers game who's soldiers are the worst butchers and how much the political leaders are responsible for that. As its irrelevant to the whole discussion.
you came out and supported Ghabgo's refusal to hand over power peacefully and in effect (and practice btw through sending his army and young patriots on the streets) provoking an resurgence of the civil war, i called you out for that as support for bourgeois politicians that change the rules of the games they play for power to forcibly hang on to said power are an recipe for dead workers.
I never expressed support for the IMF dude, you expressed support for the guy whose clique gets fat on exploiting immigrant through slavery on the cacao-plantations.
if there is someone who needs to do some moral self reflection its you, not me

[khad]

ITT: Khad gets angry at forum members that dont exist
As you were one of many who ridiculed a thread which merely argued against French intervention in the Ivory Coast, your attempt at trolling's hardly convincing.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/french-imperialists-invade-t152557/index.html


so is Gbago the new anti-imperialist strong man we all back?

quick, post some stats about the what a wonderful place Gbagbo has made the Ivory Coast

[bailey_187]

lol yeah, reading my posts how u want to so that u have an enemy to rage against. dont worry, u can RAGEEEE at me all day, i dont mind

[khad]

uhhh, again, gbagbo only won the 2002 elections because he denied Ouattara and an vast proportion of the population political participation on racist grounds.
You forget to mention that the ruler he defeated was the head of a military junta, and that the rules for citizenship were laid out by the former president Bédié, who is now one of Ouattara's staunchest allies.


again, atrocity's are bad mkay... while there is ample evidence for massmurder by Ghabgo's troops too i'm not going to let you drag me into an silly numbers game who's soldiers are the worst butchers and how much the political leaders are responsible for that. As its irrelevant to the whole discussion.
Funny how you now desperately try to wash your hands of a position that latently excuses genocide.

Numbers do matter. When the number of people killed in a matter of days is more than half of the number killed on both sides over a span of 8 years, you are approaching genocidal levels of violence.

[Sasha]

again, lay of the strawmans please.
i never supported Ouattara going to war to grab power, i rejected your support for Ghabgo to go to war to hang on to it.
Ghabgo agreed to more or less representative elections as an means to end the civil war, wich was the right thing to do. Ghabgo decided to reject the outcome of said elections because they didn't suit him wich was the wrong thing to do.
you openly supported the wrong, i called you out on it. don't try to get out of that by trowing strawmans at me.

[khad]

again, lay of the strawmans please.
i never supported Ouattara going to war to grab power, i rejected your support for Ghabgo to go to war to hang on to it.
Ghabgo agreed to more or less representative elections as an means to end the civil war, wich was the right thing to do. Ghabgo decided to reject the outcome of said elections because they didn't suit him wich was the wrong thing to do.
you openly supported the wrong, i called you out on it. don't try to get out of that by trowing strawmans at me.
Any sane leader would have rejected the election results. Especially since the government's requests to investigate voter intimidation and fraud by the rebels were categorically denied. Especially since everyone knew what the warlords of the North were promising to do. Those warlords were the same people who started the civil war in 2002 because they didn't like the fact that their little junta was out of power.

Entire nations will not be held hostage under threats of genocide [which by all evidence were made good]

[Chimurenga.]

Ghabgo agreed to more or less representative elections as an means to end the civil war, wich was the right thing to do. Ghabgo decided to reject the outcome of said elections because they didn't suit him wich was the wrong thing to do.

Hey everybody.

Some white guy from the Netherlands thinks that he knows what is best for Cote d'Ivoire. Where have I heard this before?

[Princess Luna]

Hey everybody.

Some white guy from the Netherlands thinks that he knows what is best for Cote d'Ivoire. Where have I heard this before?
Do you live in Cote d'Ivoire? no? then stfu.........

[agnixie]

You can stick that unwanted opinion you know where.

What you had before was low level internecine strife. What you have now is a genocide that the UN is abetting.

I have a kettle to present you.

Also, could we stop using the word genocide at every sauce. It's mass killings, on both sides, but a thousand people is not a genocide unless you're dealing with a rather small group of people. It's political killings. It's horrible. And you're playing a numbers game to justify one side over the other.

[Sasha]

Hey everybody.

Some white guy from the Netherlands thinks that he knows what is best for Cote d'Ivoire. Where have I heard this before?

dont know, i'm jewish aswell, maybe you can make some sweeping statements about judeo-zionist complots too?

[Tim Finnegan]

Neoliberal pig scum. I piss on your Satanic democracy.
That should be on a t-shirt.

[Chimurenga.]

Do you live in Cote d'Ivoire? no? then stfu.........

I'm not the one pretending that I know what's best for a third world country that I've never been to and don't know the ins and out's of their history and politics. White liberals do this all the time.

However, what I do advocate is the unconditional defeat of French imperialism, the UN forces, and Ouattara's murderous reactionary forces. I'm, you know, taking a principled anti-imperialist stance.

By the way, do you contribute anything to this forum other than your idiotic trolling? If I recall correctly, no one really pays much attention to you here.

[khad]

I have a kettle to present you.

Also, could we stop using the word genocide at every sauce. It's mass killings, on both sides, but a thousand people is not a genocide unless you're dealing with a rather small group of people. It's political killings. It's horrible. And you're playing a numbers game to justify one side over the other.

Actually, the international definition of genocide you liberals love so much is rather loose:


"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
I'd say that massacring 1000 people in one town in the space of 1 day counts on the systemic level of violence that qualifies genocide.

[Per Levy]

By the way, do you contribute anything to this forum other than your idiotic trolling? If I recall correctly, no one really pays much attention to you here.

so this:


Originally Posted by proletarianrevolution
Hey everybody.
Some white guy from the Netherlands thinks that he knows what is best for Cote d'Ivoire. Where have I heard this before?is not trolling then? did it contribute anything usefull to the discussion?

[Dimentio]

As for Ouattara and Gbagbo, both are probably scumbags. The main issue which Gbagbo is supporting himself on is to deprive Ivorians of Burkinese and Nigerien ancestry of political rights, whereas Ouattara is positioning himself as their champion.

In five years, Ouattara will probably sit in his bunker too, and some new warlord will take over.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I'd actually like to know what these people mean when they say they "don't support Gbagbo against Ouattara". Whenever someone hints that they're supporting a force that's fighting against the imperialists, they then scramble along with claims of us adhering to "my enemy's enemy is my friend", when in fact this isn't so.

The support of forces against known imperialists does not, by any means, equate with liking who you're supporting. I'm quite positive Mao didn't like Lin Sen when he [Mao] and his forces fought alongside with him against the Japanese imperialists. The point was to support the leading revolutionary force against imperialism. Which, at that time, it was National govt. of China - fierce opponents to the likes of Mao and those that were loyal to him.

This is exactly the same thing. Gbagbo and those loyal to him are that very force leading the fight against French imperialism. So to say you're against imperialism, but also against Gbagbo and those loyal to him, then you're stating contradictions here. You're pretty much just putting your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing is happening in Ivory Coast, which is a chicken shit move for people who like to call themselves "communists".

[Tim Finnegan]

This is exactly the same thing. Gbagbo and those loyal to him are that very force leading the fight against French imperialism. So to say you're against imperialism, but also against Gbagbo and those loyal to him, then you're stating contradictions here.
Politics doesn't have to be reduced to a dichotomy.

[Per Levy]

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity.

sure, supporting brutal rightwing dictators is a superb act of humanity and shows your leftist nature.


Neoliberal pig scum. I piss on your Satanic democracy.

yeah lets piss on democrazy but please dont piss on brutal antileft dictators who will by no means do anything to improve worker conditions and neither will they improve the situation of the poor.


You can stick that unwanted opinion you know where.

just saying this a great line to read for any new member on this forum...

[Dimentio]

I wouldn't call Gbagbo anti-imperialistic. He seems perfectly content running an exploited hellhole as long as he is the guy running it. Ouattara is probably identical.

[khad]

sure, supporting brutal rightwing dictators is a superb act of humanity and shows your leftist nature.
On the objective political scale, an IMF banker promising shock therapy for the Ivory Coast is far, far to the right of a half-ass shitty social democrat who has been maintaining nationalized industries and refusing to play ball with AFRICOM.


yeah lets piss on democrazy but please dont piss on brutal antileft dictators who will by no means do anything to improve worker conditions and neither will they improve the situation of the poor.
An IMF banker promising shock therapy and backed by genocidal warlord militias isn't an antileft dictator?

He's already shown the people liberation...by burning them alive.

[Per Levy]

You're pretty much just putting your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing is happening in Ivory Coast, which is a chicken shit move for people who like to call themselves "communists".

there is a lot happening in the ivory coast always has, the problem is that both sides are not leftist, not revolutionary, not for the workers nor for the poor and both sides are pretty allright with french imperialism as long as both can fill their pockets with the peoples money. i just wonder what the people of the ivory coast think of "communists" who support people that opressed them for years.

[khad]

there is a lot happening in the ivory coast always has, the problem is that both sides are not leftist, not revolutionary, not for the workers nor for the poor and both sides are pretty allright with french imperialism as long as both can fill their pockets with the peoples money. i just wonder what the people of the ivory coast think of "communists" who support people that opressed them for years.
The ones lying in that ditch in Duékoué, they don't think about anything at all.

I love how all you liberals just treat this latest massacre as just another episode of political violence, as if that's just the normal state of affairs for a black African nation.

They estimate about 1200-1500 civilians were killed in 8 years of civil war in the Ivory Coast. And you're not concerned that Ouattara's guys finished off more than 800 in a single day?

[agnixie]

The ones lying in that ditch in Duékoué, they don't think about anything at all.
This of course applies to the victims of both sides, wouldn't you?



I love how all you liberals just treat this latest massacre as just another episode of political violence, as if that's just the normal state of affairs for a black African nation.

Nice strawman - this has been the basic state of affairs for 8 years in Ivory Coast, that's why it's called a civil war. It was also, for a while, the normal state of affairs in Ireland, in the Balkans, in the Caucasus, etc. This is also not the standard state of affairs in much of Africa, except in places where imperialism fucked things worse than usual, and much of the time, neither side is actually anti-imperialist.



They estimate about 1200-1500 civilians were killed in 8 years of civil war in the Ivory Coast. And you're not concerned that Ouattara's guys finished off more than 800 in a single day?
Yes, we're concerned by not supporting Ouattara, we're also concerned by not using it to score political points with a reactionary feudalist.

[chegitz guevara]

Khad has, by his well reasoned arguments, convinced me I should back a feudal slave holding warlord.

[khad]

Khad has, by his well reasoned arguments, convinced me I should back a feudal slave holding warlord.
You already threatened to shoot a kid in the head on these forums. I guess e-thugs like their real thugs.

[Princess Luna]

I'm not the one pretending that I know what's best for a third world country that I've never been to and don't know the ins and out's of their history and politics. White liberals do this all the time.

However, what I do advocate is the unconditional defeat of French imperialism, the UN forces, and Ouattara's murderous reactionary forces. I'm, you know, taking a principled anti-imperialist stance.

By the way, do you contribute anything to this forum other than your idiotic trolling? If I recall correctly, no one really pays much attention to you here.
Actually most people here are saying both sides are scum and not worthy of support,however you and a handful of others are defending Gbagbo so its you who is claiming to know what is best for Côte d'Ivoire.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

As far as war crimes are concerned, it seems that both sides are guilty of ethnically fueled and bloody violence.
(http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/15/c-te-d-ivoire-crimes-against-humanity-gbagbo-forces)
Gbagbo forces seem to be targeting Muslims, migrant workers, people from North Ivory Coast and anyone brave enough to protest his rule (Heck, Migrant Africans were being lynched by Gbago's forces!). Ouattara's forces seem to have targeted any ethnicity or area which was pro-Gbagbo. Supporting either group sounds like a waste of time, neither seems particularly socialist, leftwing or progressive, and both show an unnerving willingness to shed tons of blood to maintain or instate their rule.


The fact that Pat Robertson came out speaking on Gbagbo's should also be worrying. This is especially true because it seems that there is a North/South ethnic divide between Christian tribes and Muslim tribes. Why would a Christian Theocrat like Robertson support Gbagbo? Here is what we find out-apparently, the American Christian Right has close associations with Mr Gbagbo, among other Christian leaders in Africa who are eager to help Americans "save" the Muslims and Animists.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/christian-right-in-us-backs-gbagbo-20110408-1d7po.html
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/4464/pat_robertson_gaga_for_gbagbo/



Khad-after your criticism of the rebels in Libya for discriminating against African migrants, why are you not criticizing Gbagbo's forces for their massacres of African migrants? (http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/31/c-te-d-ivoire-west-african-immigrants-massacred) You don't have to be pro-Ouattara to criticize Gbagbo for that, do you?

[RadioRaheem84]

Pat Robertson = zero credibility.

How about the countless liberal pundits like Fareed Zackaria who openly support the rebels against Gaddafi?

[khad]

Khad-after your criticism of the rebels in Libya for discriminating against African migrants, why are you not criticizing Gbagbo's forces for their massacres of African migrants? (http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/31/c-te-d-ivoire-west-african-immigrants-massacred) You don't have to be pro-Ouattara to criticize Gbagbo for that, do you?
I present to you Henri Konan Bédié:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Konan_B%C3%A9di%C3%A9


. He also said that the nationalistic concept of Ivorité (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ivorit%C3%A9&action=edit&redlink=1), which was promoted during his presidency, was an attempt to bolster "cultural identity" and not a means of political exclusion. According to critics of Ivorité, it was divisive, xenophobic, and intended to eliminate political competition from Ouattara—who was claimed to be the son of Burkinabé parents—but Bédié rejected this criticismYes, President Bédié was the originator of the nativist concept of Ivoirité, and guess what he's doing now? He's working hand in hand with Alessane Ouattara.

http://www.tdg.ch/depeches/monde/election-ivoirienne-alliance-contre-nature-bedie-ouattara-camp-gbagbo

Forgive me for being skeptical that this neoliberal IMF banker is going to be the savior of ethnic relations in the Ivory Coast, when he is partnered with the biggest xenophobic nationalist in Ivorian politics.

[agnixie]

Forgive me for being skeptical that this neoliberal IMF banker is going to be the savior of ethnic relations in the Ivory Coast, when he is partnered with the biggest xenophobic nationalist in Ivorian politics.

Why do you insist on this snowflake nonsense like you're the only one not to support Ouattara? Is this because it's your only line of argumentation or something?

So basically both sides are using nativist bullshit.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Khad-did I claim to be supporting Ouattara or Bedle? I'm saying Gbagbo himself has participated in violence against foreigners. What does that have to do with what I posted, I don't see where I ever endorsed Ouattara or said he was a good alternative.

RadioRaheem-thats kind of the point, why would a Christian fundamentalist with only a few wingnut supporters back Gbagbo? More importantly, why would Gbagbo see Robertson as an ally? People like Inhofe and Robertson are the worst of the Christian right, yet seem to actually have personal ties to the Gbagbo government.

[chegitz guevara]

You already threatened to shoot a kid in the head on these forums. I guess e-thugs like their real thugs.

What the fuck are you talking about, troll?

[khad]

What the fuck are you talking about, troll?
One of the forum's low points, I'll readily admit:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/flamewar-after-death-t138826/index.html

[chegitz guevara]

That doesn't say what you claim it says, you lying troll.

[khad]

That doesn't say what you claim it says, you lying troll.
Really? I think your e-thuggery proudly on display says a lot more.

[chegitz guevara]

It only shows that your reading comprehension skills are below the level of a kindergartners, troll.

1) I never threatened to do anything, despite your lies.
2) You completely ignore the context, where Sankara, who was soon banned, said that another person who had been shot through the head was just a wannabe victim. All I did was say then someone should shoot him in the head, and none of us will call him a victim.

I'm sorry you are so incredibly incompetent you cannot understand that, despite the fact that it was spelled out several times. Of course, the reality is, you didn't care what the truth was. You just seized on an opportunity to put an infraction on one of the multitude of people who don't agree with you because you can't handle disagreement by any means except insulting people and abusing your authority.

[khad]

It only shows that your reading comprehension skills are below the level of a kindergartners, troll.

1) I never threatened to do anything, despite your lies.
2) You completely ignore the context, where Sankara, who was soon banned, said that another person who had been shot through the head was just a wannabe victim. All I did was say then someone should shoot him in the head, and none of us will call him a victim.

I'm sorry you are so incredibly incompetent you cannot understand that, despite the fact that it was spelled out several times. Of course, the reality is, you didn't care what the truth was. You just seized on an opportunity to put an infraction on one of the multitude of people who don't agree with you.

He never said that. He was merely referring to atheists as a group claiming to have more objective oppression compared to black people is wrong. His choice of words could have been better to avoid this ambiguity (he was not specifically referring to the guy in question but "atheists" collectively), but you were definitely out of line for saying he should be murdered.


I'm sorry you are so incredibly incompetent you cannot understand that, despite the fact that it was spelled out several times. Of course, the reality is, you didn't care what the truth was. You just seized on an opportunity to put an infraction on one of the multitude of people who don't agree with you because you can't handle disagreement by any means except insulting people and abusing your authority.
Look on your profile. It shows approximately ZERO infractions, not even expired ones. I merely told you to knock it off with the death threats; no infraction was issued.

What other lies will you cook up next time?

[chegitz guevara]

Warning, infraction, whatever. It's all the same shit to me.

[Robespierre Richard]

I think it's interesting how bullshit AFP/France24/BBC's reporting over this has been. Like how many times has it been reported that the Independent Electoral Commission's results were from the hotel Ouatara used as his campaign headquarters at the time.

Pretty good roundup right here


WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA IS REFUSING TO ALSO STRESS OR MENTION:


- The report sheet of the majority of members of the Electoral Commission in the north of the country admitted that the elections were highly flawed in that area.

- They also refused to mention that results were cancelled in virtually all of France where Gbagbo's party had a resounding majority. Yet, the president of the EC paid a blind eye on what happened in the north since he knew certain international media and countries will back his action.

- The international media is mentioning that the President of the Constitutional Council is pro Gbagbo but fails to admit that the President of the Electoral Commission as well as its Permanent Secretary and Spokesman are all pro Ouatara. What an unnecessary hype.

- The international media focuses on the tearing of results sheet by a pro'-Gbagbo member of the EC. without investigating what provoked such actions. The action of the EC member was uncivil though.

- The international media fails to emphasize that the election results had not been harmonised before the spokesman rushing to make inflammatory declarations.

- The international media fails to equally reiterate that the results were released in a hotel hide out rather than from the Electoral Commission’s office and without other members of the Electoral Commission. They also fail to mention that this hotel was candidate Alasane Ouatara's base.

- The international media fails to mention that in several areas in the North, Ouatara is said to have had more votes than all of the registered voters in the polling centres concerned. That can only happen in Cameroon under Paul Biya.

- The international media fails to mention that it is this same Alasane Ouatara who has been acused of being behind the rebellion in Cote D Ivoire that killed several people. The rebellion then divided the country into two there by creating a country (North of Ivory Coast) within a country , that is Ivory Coast itselt. Ouatara has always refused this acusation though. However this video of one of the rebel commanders who Ouatara is said to have trained and sponsored is clear testimony..

-The international media has carefully avoided what other election observers like the AU and other independent monitors said about the elections. They prefer to hinge on what EU, French and UN team are claiming.

The international media with the exception of BBC failed to relay or analyse an ultimatum given by French President and Foreign Minister to the EC of Cote Ivoire. It read “the election results MUST be published today” that was Wednesday December 01, 2010. Who are they to give ultimatums to a sovereign nation and what was the reason behind such an irritating statement?

-The international community represented by some powerful capitalists and imperialist bodies, think they can use the so called International Tribunal at The Hague to threaten nationalist African leaders. The headline of Le Nouveau Reveil of December 03, 201, a pro Ouatara newspaper even confirms this.

http://agendia.jigsy.com/entries/africa/2010-elections-in-cote-d-ivoire-what-most-media-do-not-tell-you

[Crux]

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Your beloved "democratically elected" president of the Ivory Coast has murdered more civilians more in a couple of days than all the violence caused by the government, rebels, and NATO up to this point in Libya. This level of violence was even unheard of during the decade of civil war in the Ivory Coast.

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity. For all your liberal scaremongering about the dangers of disrupting democratic process.

Neoliberal pig scum. I piss on your Satanic democracy.
Oh no my beloved democratcally elected president in the Ivory Coast has made a massacre! And you are pissing on satanic democracy! err...What?
How did a troll like you become a moderator? It's despicable to see you troll serious issues and your holier-than-thou attitude is absolutely hilarious. I am sorry, I won't engage in this thread any further, I don't feel like feeding a troll.

[Reznov]

It's also a comment on how little this forum cares about sub-Saharan Africa. You can take a guess as to what the motive is.

Probably because almost every single person on this forum is most likely an American, European or Latin American and are more familiar with events going on in their regions and languages they understand.

I myself was unaware of this happening until your post. Not because I care nothing for sub-Saharan Africa, but just because its not where I am from to be able to keep up on everything happening all over the world at once.

[Reznov]

Oh no my beloved democratcally elected president in the Ivory Coast has made a massacre! And you are pissing on satanic democracy! err...What?
How did a troll like you become a moderator? It's despicable to see you troll serious issues and your holier-than-thou attitude is absolutely hilarious. I am sorry, I won't engage in this thread any further, I don't feel like feeding a troll.

Couldn't have put it any better. RevLeft really needs new Moderators.

[Chimurenga.]

Couldn't have put it any better. RevLeft really needs new Moderators.

At least posters like khad (and a few others) are consistent in their politics which is more than you could say for most of this site.

[Chimurenga.]

Actually most people here are saying both sides are scum and not worthy of support,however you and a handful of others are defending Gbagbo so its you who is claiming to know what is best for Côte d'Ivoire.

Go back and actually read my post of what I advocate, for Christ's sake. When have I extended support specifically for Gbagbo?

Do you know how to read? I'm not really sure that you do.

[chegitz guevara]

As if that matters if you're consistently wrong.

[Crux]

yes, your beloved elected president has made a massacre
Yes, as I said you are hilarious. What are you doing on a politics site? You're a comedian. Unwittingly.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The brutal slaughter of 800 civilians is an inexcusable, egregious violation of human rights, but the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of Syrian civilians needs some stipulation (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2054260&postcount=19)

A lot of stipulation is also needed when speaking about Pul-e-Charkhi prison and the "human rights" that were respected there against thousands, all of whom were undoubtedly enemies of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (and the same in regards to the "human rights" that were respected in Tadmor military prison in Syria, which again most likely never inflicted a miscarriage of justice against a non-jihadist with their summary executions or anything like that.)

But yeah, anyway. Victory to the people's choice, Ouattara! May the wind be at his back as he crushes his enemies!

[black magick hustla]

this is horrible. i don't see how is this about stepping up the cred of one muirderer of the toiling class against the other. capitalism is fucking decomposing in subsaharan africa and that place is essentially what rosa described as barbarism. anyhow, bored kids in the internet "supporting" one side over the other is meaningless. i think its more important to understand what is happening there than talking whether quantifying how much each despot is responsable for how many deaths

[chegitz guevara]

I think it's interesting how bullshit AFP/France24/BBC's reporting over this has been. Like how many times has it been reported that the Independent Electoral Commission's results were from the hotel Ouatara used as his campaign headquarters at the time.

Pretty good roundup right here

http://agendia.jigsy.com/entries/africa/2010-elections-in-cote-d-ivoire-what-most-media-do-not-tell-you

This is the first post with useful information in this thread. On the basis of this blog entry, I've done some more investigation and discussed with other comrades. I'm not saying I've come to a conclusion yet, but this post has certainly made me strongly question previous understandings.

[Luís Henrique]

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity.

And khad is a global moderator in this disgrace to the left and humanity. What does that say about khad?

Luís Henrique

[chegitz guevara]

This forum is a disgrace to the left and humanity.

You should quit it then.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I'd actually like to know what these people mean when they say they "don't support Gbagbo against Ouattara". Whenever someone hints that they're supporting a force that's fighting against the imperialists, they then scramble along with claims of us adhering to "my enemy's enemy is my friend", when in fact this isn't so.

It means that we don't buy into the dominant ideology's false dichotomy. It is the same to say that we didn't "support Obama against McCain" in 2008. If neither side of the conflict represents the interests of the masses, the last thing we need to do is choose between the "lesser of two evils." That will not help the situation, nor will your internet posturing have any real world consequences in the Ivory Coast. The fact that you are unwilling to come out against both Outtara and Gbagbo goes to show that you are trapped within the confines of bourgeois ideology's binary paradigm which crudely reduces everything to black and white, good and evil, cops and robbers. To actually improve the situation it will be necessary to make a total break from this false dichotomy.


The support of forces against known imperialists does not, by any means, equate with liking who you're supporting. I'm quite positive Mao didn't like Lin Sen when he [Mao] and his forces fought alongside with him against the Japanese imperialists. The point was to support the leading revolutionary force against imperialism. Which, at that time, it was National govt. of China - fierce opponents to the likes of Mao and those that were loyal to him.

This is exactly the same thing. Gbagbo and those loyal to him are that very force leading the fight against French imperialism. So to say you're against imperialism, but also against Gbagbo and those loyal to him, then you're stating contradictions here. You're pretty much just putting your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing is happening in Ivory Coast, which is a chicken shit move for people who like to call themselves "communists".

To say you're for Gbagbo and against imperialism is the more obvious contradiction. Nevermind his support from the neoliberal French "Socialist" Party and Pat Robertson; those loyal to Gbagbo in the Ivory Coast are neoliberals as well:


The Gbagbo regime strengthened the grip of US transnationals on Ivorian cocoa and won approval from the World Bank and IMF for application of their principles. Certainly Gbagbo initiated, for example, a policy of free supplies for primary schools and the elimination of school fees, but his regime was also active in the area of oligarchic accumulation of capital, in a climate of growing poverty. Should we close our eyes to this indecent enrichment, at the expense of the public treasury and the people, or the scandals of underhand dealings in the coffee-cocoa sector? Acts which even exasperated the regime’s number two, the president of the National Assembly, Mamadou Koulibaly — an unconditional supporter of economic neoliberalism who had been Gbagbo’s economic advisor and represented his Front Populaire Ivoirien (FPI) in the transitional government led by Robert Guéi.
===> Ivory Coast: Two oligarchic factions tear the country apart (http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article2036)

Of course, you have come out supporting the two stages theory here before, so it is not surprising that you would support a capitalist clinging to power in a "semi-feudal" country. But in supporting this crackpot theory you are trivializing the intelligence of third world workers and their capacity to establish an alternative to the current economic system.