How many people REALLY died

[The Man]

In the U.S. Imperialism campaign to massacre the Indians. I have heard varying ideas from 12 to 95 million. Can someone give cite a reliable source for me with the correct number?

[Per Levy]

12 to 95 million

95 million? where there even that many us citizens around that time? the number i'll post might be to low but thats what i learned back in history class: around 1 million victims.

[Red_Struggle]

I'm no expert but I can tell you right now that the 12 million estimate is bullshit. You might wanna check out Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".

Don't forget the number of indirect deaths through the unsanitary conditions still present in Indian reservations, especially Pine Ridge. It's one of the poorest areas in the U.S.

Also, fuck the BIA

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

http://books.google.ca/books?id=9iQYSQ9y60MC&printsec=frontcover&dq=American+Indian+holocaust+and+survival:+a+popul ation+history+since+1492&hl=en&ei=0rw0TYKDNMXflgfXqcWfCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=true

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Am ericas

[The Man]

95 million? where there even that many us citizens around that time? the number i'll post might be to low but thats what i learned back in history class: around 1 million victims.

The Indians weren't American Citizens..

[DrStrangelove]

I think the fact that they were systematically evicted from their homeland, discriminated against, and slaughtered to the point in which they were almost completely destroyed speaks more volumes than a number. No doubt that the 80+ million is the more accurate figure.

[agnixie]

The Indians weren't American Citizens..

The entire american continent didn't have 95 million people when it was conquered. The highest estimate for mesoamerica, the single densest region on the continent and one of the densest in the world (it compared to France, Japan or some parts of India) had estimates of 25 millions plus a few millions south of the mexican plateau. I call bullshit; the north of the continent was lightly settled enough that people still have no idea when exactly the Apache and the Navajo conquered vast swathes of Pueblo lands, and that happened after the spanish reintroduced the horse.

Boosting numbers doesn't make things look worse, it makes the people who are boosting look like they're lying. It was still millions, easily.

[Pretty Flaco]

I don't know if 95 million people even populated the entire continent back then, let alone just the Indian populations.

btw, the population of the US in 1840 was a little over 17 million, according to the 1840 census.

[Aurorus Ruber]

I don't know if 95 million people even populated the entire continent back then, let alone just the Indian populations.

The genocide took place over the course of many decades, if not centuries when you consider the beginnings of Western colonization. Tens of millions of people could have died in total even if not nearly as many were alive at any given point in time.

[Raubleaux]

The "how many Indians" debate is one that has raged for a while. Here is Charles Mann, journalist and author of a rather good recent book about the Indians:


JEFFREY BROWN: So the portrait of the Americas before Columbus came, a more sophisticated, I think you used the word busy place.

CHARLES MANN: Yes. A crowded place with lots and lots of people, and the population estimates when I was going to school were that the entire population of the Americas north of the Rio Grande was something on the order of 900,000 people and then there were a few million more people south of the Rio Grande.

And now a conservative estimate would be twenty to forty million, and I've seen estimates of up to 200 million. So if you do this kind of crude split the difference kind of thing, you end up with eighty to one hundred million, which was roughly the population of Europe at the time.

The thing is, by the time Europeans arrived in large numbers there were already many, many Indians who died from the epidemics. The diseases migrated faster than the people. People are never going to agree on this but a high end estimate of 100 million seems fair to me.

[mosfeld]

"The White Book of Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/history/capitalism/white-book-capitalism/usa/native-americans.htm)" claims that over 250 years, 160 million natives were murdered.


For over 10,000 years the native americans lived and died throughout the vast, rich continent of North America. The burgenoning United States balanced brute military force with one economic transaction after another, on one hand slaugthering entire tribes, on the other "buying" enourmous tracts of land for exploitation. With control over nearly all native american land, leaving only small plots for "reservations", the native american way of life was destroyed and the clear choice became: be assimilated into "modern" life, or rot in "irrelevance" on the reservation.

371 treaties were made by the US government with Native Americans. The United States govenment violated 370 of those treaties, to date. Over 250 years, 160 million Native Americans have been killed by the US government.

[comradecommie]

The MRN has a list on his channel.

[Dean]

15-20 Million is I think the closest estimate.

[TwoSevensClash]

I once read there was 200,000,000 natives alive in S America and N America combined before columbus came now I think theres about 80,000,00. So 120,000,000 million killed.

[Luís Henrique]

I once read there was 200,000,000 natives alive in S America and N America combined before columbus came now I think theres about 80,000,00. So 120,000,000 million killed.

Where did you get the 200 million figure?

Luís Henrique

[Rooster]

Your use of the world "imperialism" is interesting.

[Dragovich]

I thought most of the natives had been wiped out by the time the United States was formed. And it wasn't like there were that many people in let's say New York compared to the region of Mesoamerica.

[Tablo]

The figures vary. It really depends on the time frame. If you mean the total number caused over the course of history as a result of European colonization, then we are still counting people dying today.

[Sir Comradical]

I don't know the accurate figure (it's impossible to get an "accurate" figue) but you can check out a book called 'American Holocaust' by David Stannard.