French imperialists invade the Ivory Coast

[The Vegan Marxist]

http://www.plenglish.com/images/stories/Fotos/2011/abril/01/costa-de-marfil-combates_abiyan.jpg

France Authorizes its Military to Intervene in Ivorian Conflict

Addis Ababa, Apr 4 (Prensa Latina) After getting the green light from Paris, French forces under the aegis of the United Nations fired at incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo’s forces on Monday, thus bringing the international community efforts to oust the entrenched leader to an unprecedented escalation.

According to press reports, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon had requested France’s military participation.

The action took place as Gbagbo’s militias are entrenching in Abidjan and forces of the internationally president elect Alassane Ouattara are readying to assault the Ivorian economic capital.

Ouattara was declared the official winner of the November elections by the Electoral Council, but Gbagbo claimed victory and has refused to cede government after 10 years in power.

The spokesman for the U.N. Department of Peacekeeping Operations Nick Birnback told reporters that Gbagbo’s forces had consistently been using heavy weapons against peacekeepers in recent days.

He says today’s action was taken according to the mandate the U.N. Mission in Cote D’Ivoire, most of it made up of French military, has from the U.N. Security Council.

French troops took control of the airport, allowing it to reopen as the United Nations evacuated around 200 of its employees from Abidjan.

After sending in an extra 300 soldiers to help take control of the airport, France now has 1,400 troops in its former colony, according to reports picked up in this capital.

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is urging Ouattara to investigate the massacre of at least 800 people in the western town of Duekoue.

Ouattara insists his followers had nothing to do with the killings, rather accusing the retreating forces loyal to Gbagbo of causing the atrocities. Meanwhile, fighting continued in Abidjan, the country’s main city and former capital, and there is word of clashes near the presidential palace.

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=277690&Itemid=1

[The Vegan Marxist]

To understand who Ouattara - the "official president" of Ivory Coast who the West back - is, then here's when Wikipedia comes in handy:


Alassane Dramane Ouattara (French pronunciation: [alasan wataʁa], Arabic pronunciation: [الحسّآن وطرة]; born 1 January 1942) is an Ivorian politician who was the unelected Prime Minister of Côte d'Ivoire from November 1990 to December 1993 appointed to the post by the late President Félix Houphouët-Boigny.[1][2][3][4] A technocrat, Ouattara trained as an economist and worked for the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO). He is currently the President of the Rally of the Republicans (RDR), a party which has its support base in the north of the country, and was a candidate in the 2010 presidential election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alassane_Ouattara

[The Vegan Marxist]

It's also pretty clear that the intentions behind Ouattara and his forces were to inevitably take out President Gbagbo for good. Here's an article that speaks very loud and very clear of said intention (the article is from "President" Ouattara's home page, which is only available in French):

http://www.lafrique.com/afrique/articles/gbagbo-mort-ou-vif/

[Sasha]

hey, new pet project? care to reply to an request about your last?
http://www.revleft.com/vb/tvm-please-source-t152528/index.html

[bailey_187]

so is Gbago the new anti-imperialist strong man we all back?

quick, post some stats about the what a wonderful place Gbagbo has made the Ivory Coast

[Hammilton]

lol I don't know that preventing the slaughter of civillians is an imperialist action. Gbago lost a fair election and then made war on civilians. Hardly a man of the people.

[The Vegan Marxist]

@Psycho: Addressed, now don't turn this thread into another irrelevant debate again. You could've easily sent me a PM.

[The Vegan Marxist]

so is Gbago the new anti-imperialist strong man we all back?

quick, post some stats about the what a wonderful place Gbagbo has made the Ivory Coast

I don't think anyone's saying that. Are you stating we shouldn't support the Ivory Coast's independence from French imperialism? What kind of fucking ML are you?

[Le Socialiste]

From what I understand, neither side upholds the needs and interests of the people. It proves, yet again, that the entire "democratic" process of election cycles/campaigns is a farce. The masses don't need parties. The masses don't need the governmental state. The masses, if they are to understand their truly revolutionary potential, must recognize that class unity, solidarity, and action are the gateways towards their eventual emancipation. The answer lies not in one's party loyalties, but in one's loyalty to the movement and struggle for freedom.

What's more, the imperialist interests actively seek to undermine and undo any possible movement that demands an alternative to the people's continuous exploitation. In this case, it is France (who, mind you, already had a military presence in the country prior to the recent unrest - they've only recently just flown in more soldiers). The French presence in this African nation amounts to what some would call neo-colonialism/imperialism. The governing bodies in France, beholden to the interests and greed of the French bourgeoisie, will take the side of whichever group that supports its interests and influence in the Ivory Coast. What we are witnessing is the destruction and turmoil wrought by two warring factions of the Ivory Coast's ruling-class; and, as is always the case, the workers will suffer for it. This is a conflict amongst two separate sets of exploitation - and France chose the one that is willing to make the most of it.

We shouldn't be surprised by this development; if anything, we should recognize it for what it is: a newly revived scramble for influence in the Third World. History is cyclical, and once again the powers-that-be are becoming less and less concerned with "humanitarian" posturing and more actively asserting their economic/geopolitical interests.

[bailey_187]

I don't think anyone's saying that. Are you stating we shouldn't support the Ivory Coast's independence from French imperialism? What kind of fucking ML are you?

I didnt say that, nor should anything i said in the past give u reason to beleive that.

You, however, have a tendency to support dictator's who use the rhetoric of "indepedence" and "sovereignty".

So was the Ivory Coast indepedent under Laurent Gbagbo?

[The Vegan Marxist]

We can be idealists all we want and wish that a socialist organization takes over the Ivory Coast, but this isn't going to happen for the current moment. We must stay practical about this and support who is presently against the French imperialists. Which is, right now, those loyal to President Gbagbo.

Or do leftists now support imperialism if the imperialists are out to overthrow someone we don't particularly agree with? I guess many leftists today are turning into little Gilbert Achcar's.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I didnt say that, nor should anything i said in the past give u reason to beleive that.

You, however, have a tendency to support dictator's who use the rhetoric of "indepedence" and "sovereignty".

So was the Ivory Coast indepedent under Laurent Gbagbo?

From French imperialism, yes. And that's fucking irrelevant either way. In your world view, if a country had some kind of relation with the imperialists, then when the imperialists invade, it doesn't matter, because to you "more imperialism = less imperialism", rather than "less imperialism > more imperialism". What we now know is that the French have invaded and are in the process of helping that IMF stooge Ouattara come to power and overthrow (and more than likely assassinate) President Gbagbo.

[Le Socialiste]

So was the Ivory Coast indepedent under Laurent Gbagbo?


I'm inclined to say it wasn't. The current upheaval is, I would argue, the result of two separate and divergent factions of the ruling-class. Each are vying for the support and approval of the imperialist powers (or, in this case, France). Make no mistake, both seek the suppression and exploitation of labor and the unequitable accumulation of wealth/capital. The workers have no allies in this fight, save for their own inherent strength in numbers. As is too often the case, however, the people are being pitted against one another for the sake of either Gbago or Ouattara and the capitalistic interests they represent. It's the warring of the ruling-class that pits worker against worker; it's the ever-present narrative of the class struggle within history. So long as the people/workers remain blind to the chains that keep them divided, they will remain subservient and susceptible to the coercive will of their oppressors. :(

But then, you weren't asking me...

[Le Socialiste]

From French imperialism, yes. And that's fucking irrelevant either way. In your world view, if a country had some kind of relation with the imperialists, then when the imperialists invade, it doesn't matter, because to you "more imperialism = less imperialism", rather than "less imperialism > more imperialism". What we now know is that the French have invaded and are in the process of helping that IMF stooge Ouattara come to power and overthrow (and more than likely assassinate) President Gbagbo.

Why must we support either side, here? Either way, the people of Côte d'Ivoire lose. Gbago doesn't have the masses' interests at heart, neither does the IMF's strongman. The workers, the people themselves, have no friends in this fight.

And France had troops on the ground in the Ivory Coast before the initial stages of unrest. They've already had a presence there...

[bailey_187]

TVM, no one supports the invasion. If i have to state that i do on this forum, fine, thought it wasnt needed.

You dont always need to cheerlead for someone though. It is possible to oppose an invasion of a country without starting use weird formalities such as calling Gbagbo president with a capital P, as iff that really means anything to us.

[The Vegan Marxist]

TVM, no one supports the invasion. If i have to state that i do on this forum, fine, thought it wasnt needed.

You dont always need to cheerlead for someone though. It is possible to oppose an invasion of a country without starting use weird formalities such as calling Gbagbo president with a capital P, as iff that really means anything to us.

I always capitalize the P, even if I don't believe him to be the actual President, like Ouattara. But how I write is irrelevant.

And this isn't a means of "cheerleading", but rather understanding that, for the current moment, it's either Gbagbo or Ouattara. As practical anti-imperialists, we then side with Gbagbo's forces against Ouattara's (who are being aided by the French).

[Gorilla]

So was the Ivory Coast indepedent under Laurent Gbagbo?

There are only a few countries in sub-Saharan Africa that ever attained meaningful independence. Angola is an example - all it took was enormous oil reserves and a continuous state of war from the 1960's through 2002. But that's really a side issue. French troops, both the ones stationed there and in all former French colonies as a matter of routine and the new ones that have been sent in for this operation, should get the fuck out regardless.


And this isn't a means of "cheerleading", but rather understanding that, for the current moment, it's either Gbagbo or Ouattara. As practical anti-imperialists, we then side with Gbagbo's forces against Ouattara's (who are being aided by the French).

Gbagbo or Ouattara may be a practical matter in Cote d'Ivoire but it is not practical at all for people writing on the internet from imperialist countries. Taking "sides" in a situation like this is secondarily wrong because both sides are oppressive bourgeois etc. but primarily is wrong because it has nothing to do with anything.

[psgchisolm]

IMQ_1vTXQvw

[psgchisolm]

4 April 2011 – United Nations peacekeepers in Côte d’Ivoire, supported by French forces, carried out a military operation today to prevent the use of heavy weapons against civilians in Abidjan after Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon instructed them to take “all necessary measures” to defend themselves and protect innocent lives amid the worsening crisis in the West African nation.
The security situation has deteriorated “dramatically” over the past days, Mr. Ban said in a statement, with fighting having escalated between forces loyal to the democratically-elected and UN-certified president, Alassane Ouattara, and those forces remaining loyal to the former leader, Laurent Gbagbo.

“This is a direct consequence of Mr. Gbagbo’s refusal to relinquish power and allow a peaceful transition to President Ouattara,” he stated. “The country has been plunged into violence with a heavy toll on the civilian population.”

In the past few days, forces loyal to Mr. Gbagbo have intensified and escalated their use of heavy weapons such as mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and heavy machine guns against the civilian population in Abidjan, the country’s commercial capital.

These forces have also targeted the headquarters of the UN Operation in Côte d’Ivoire (UNOCI) at Sebroko Hotel with heavy-calibre sniper fire, as well as mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. Four peacekeepers have been wounded in these attacks.

Forces loyal to Mr. Gbagbo have also attacked UNOCI patrols dispatched to protect civilians and convoys transporting wounded in Abidjan, resulting in several more wounded peacekeepers.

Consequently, Mr. Ban instructed the 8,000-strong UNOCI to take “necessary measures” to prevent the use of heavy weapons against civilians, with the support of French forces and in line with previous Security Council resolutions. The mission undertook a military operation to this effect around 5 p.m. local time today.

“Let me emphasize that UNOCI is not a party to the conflict,” Mr. Ban stated. “In line with its Security Council mandate, the mission has taken this action in self defence and to protect civilians.”

The post-electoral crisis that began following the November presidential run-off has resulted in the deaths of at least 500 people and the displacement of up to 1 million, many of whom have fled to neighbouring countries. There have also been reports of massacres and other forms of brutality and human rights violations against civilians amid the turmoil.

Ivan Simonovic, Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights, who arrived in Abidjan yesterday, has expressed deep concern over the worsening human rights situation.

During his visit, Mr. Simonovic will have meetings with the Ivorian authorities, political leaders and civil society. He will also hold talks with the representatives of the international community, the UN system and the diplomatic corps, as well as go on field visits.

The Assistant Secretary-General will also take the opportunity to remind all parties to the Ivorian conflict of their individual and collective responsibility to ensure that international human rights law and humanitarian law are respected. He will urge them to immediately take necessary measures to protect civilians, especially women and children, and put an end to all human rights abuses.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37997&Cr=ivoire&Cr1=

I guess UN peacekeepers are imperialist as well hmm?

[bailey_187]

a quick look at the the wiki page of Ivory coast's economy shows that this isnt a country being invaded by imperialists to plunder, but rather imperialists intervening in one of their neo-colonies to prevent instability.

"Foreign direct investment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_direct_investment) (FDI) plays a key role in the Ivorian economy, accounting for between 40% and 45% of total capital in Ivorian firms. France is overwhelmingly the most important foreign investor. In recent years, French investment has accounted for about one-quarter of the total capital in Ivorian enterprises, and between 55% and 60% of the total stock of foreign investment capital." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_C%C3%B4te_d%27Ivoire

Gbagbo isnt a threat to French imperialism, its the potential civil war that is an indirect threat to french business interests. Civil war looks likley (i guess it has already started), ans civil war is always bad for business, even if neither parties are "anti-imperialist" or communist.

France already owns large foreign assets there, and exports plenty of capital there. They are making sure civil war does not damage this.

Is that me saying France should be there to "keep peace", as im sure TVM will have read that as? No. France should not invade.

Stop seeing the world in this black and white "east vs west", "imp vs anti-imp" view all the time. It does not apply here. France is protecting its all ready exisiting economic interests in one of its neo-colonies, that is threatend by the instability a fight between two bourgeois factions may bring.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

this isnt a country being invaded by imperialists to plunder, but rather imperialists intervening in one of their neo-colonies to prevent instability.


What a relief! France is just doing in Cote d'Ivoire what it's doing in Lybia: backing the putative winner in order to protect its investments - including, incidentally, a huge market for its armaments; using its army (the second largest abroad after the US) as a protection racket for whoever comes next, etc. Not to mention the substantial kickbacks from sales and investments that end up in the pockets of the French oligarchs.

[RedScare]

Why do we have to pick a side? Just condemn them both and be done with it. It's not like we have any influence over the situation...

[bailey_187]

What a relief! France is just doing in Cote d'Ivoire what it's doing in Lybia: backing the putative winner in order to protect its investments - including, incidentally, a huge market for its armaments; using its army (the second largest abroad after the US) as a protection racket for whoever comes next, etc. Not to mention the substantial kickbacks from sales and investments that end up in the pockets of the French oligarchs.

fuck off with trying to misrepresent my argument u dickhead. its not a releif, no where did i say that. it was an argument against TVM's idea that somehow we need to support Gbagbo against imperialism.

Do u disagree with my argument? Or u just trying to make me look like some dickhead

[bailey_187]

Why do we have to pick a side? Just condemn them both and be done with it. It's not like we have any influence over the situation...

We dont. But picking a side in this situation makes no sense anyway.

Ivory Coast is France's neo-colony. Two factions of the bourgeosie in Ivory Coast are about to fight it out. France doesnt want its economic interests disrupted. Choosing a side to cheer here would make no sense.

[No_Leaders]

Why does vegan insist on picking one side over another. What if this Gbagbo Were Hitler and these civilians were the the yugoslav communists fighting back against axis occupation. Would you side with hitler because the yugoslav resistance was getting aid from the west, the imperialists?

[Rusty Shackleford]

i honestly dont have a clue about the difference between ouattara and gdagbo. all i know is that one is not giving up presidency, majority of world supports opposition, post-civil war society. new civil war. french acting cavalier and spearheading UN operations there.

[Le Socialiste]

i honestly dont have a clue about the difference between ouattara and gdagbo.


There is none.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Here's the PSL's statement on the current situation in Ivory Coast:


Imperialist hands off Ivory Coast!
APRIL 5, 2011

Hard on the heels of the so-called “humanitarian intervention” in Libya, European imperialists are again making a mockery of African sovereignty, this time in the Ivory Coast. On April 4 French forces spearheaded an attack on the residence of Laurent Gbagbo, head of one of two factions, each of which claims leadership of the nation.

Using the thin veneer of “protecting” civilians, the French, backed by United Nations “peacekeepers,” have also attacked various strong points held by Gbagbo’s loyalists, targeting in particular artillery and other heavy weaponry. This has been accompanied by the stationing of 1,500 French troops in Ivory Coast.

Under this pressure, a cease-fire was declared as of April 5, with France dictating terms to Gbagbo, demanding his surrender, departure and recognition of his opponent Alassane Outtara.

The political crisis in the Ivory Coast began earlier this year when presidential elections delivered a disputed result. On one side is the incumbent President Gbagbo, who ruled over the rump Ivory Coast government during the civil war in the early part of the decade. On the other is Outtara, a former prime minister and International Monetary Fund economist whose strongest base of support is in the former “rebel” zone in the north of the country.

While there are many complex issues involved, at base the conflict between the two camps centers on a scramble to control the country’s economic resources. Under the government of Felix Houphouët-Boigny, Ivory Coast was the poster-child for capitalist development in Africa, with large profits flowing from cocoa, of which Ivory Coast is the world’s largest producer. Houphouët-Boigny was adept at using patronage to play the elites of various ethnic and religious groups against each other. After his death in 1993, there has been competition among these formerly loosely united factions over control of the Ivorian state, and thus its resources.

Gbagbo represents a more “nationalistic” bourgeoisie. He and his supporters resent French neo-colonial meddling, and seek a more independent path of capitalist development. Gbagbo has used anti-French sentiment as a prop to his regime. He gets significant support from the Young Patriots, a populist anti-French militia, which is based mostly in Abidjan, the country’s largest city.

Outtara has emerged as the favorite of Western imperialists. As prime minister in the early 1990s, Outtara helped oversee the imposition of IMF “structural adjustment” policies on the Ivory Coast. The full-throated support from France and the United States is a clear signal that Western imperialist powers view Outtara as much more amenable to their continued neo-colonial control over this economically strategic West African nation.

Forces loyal to both sides have been clashing recently, mostly in the west of the country. Outtara’s forces have consistently claimed imminent victory for the past several days. Victory has, however, been far from certain as Gbagbo has marshaled his forces, and so France, with the United Nations in tow, forcefully intervened Monday.

Their claims to be protecting citizens are utterly cynical. What do air attacks on the presidential residence have to do with a “humanitarian protection” mission? Who can believe that President Sarkozy is truly concerned with the well being of the Ivorian masses? This is the same Sarkozy who launched a vicious, racist campaign against the oppressed Roma people, who advocates fascist-style policing methods amongst France’s immigrant communities, and who has launched a brutal assault on the living standards of the French working class.

In reality, this is another in a long line of tawdry episodes by French neo-colonialists in their former colonies. This is a clear message to the rulers of France’s former colonies: Do not forget, in the final analysis your policies are determined not in your national capitals but in the Élysée Palace.

With French troops patrolling the streets and skies over Abidjan, any agreement ending the conflict is a total sham. This intervention is nothing more than an attempt by French imperialists, with moral support from the United States, to reassert their total control over the continent of Africa—first in Libya, now in Ivory Coast. The new war drive in Africa must be strenuously opposed by progressives and revolutionaries the world over.

French/U.N. troops out of Ivory Coast!
Imperialist hands OFF Ivory Coast!

http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/imperialist-out-ivory-coast.html

[The Vegan Marxist]

Why does vegan insist on picking one side over another. What if this Gbagbo Were Hitler and these civilians were the the yugoslav communists fighting back against axis occupation. Would you side with hitler because the yugoslav resistance was getting aid from the west, the imperialists?

Nazi Germany was an imperialist nation themselves! And they played a role that placed the US in a very unprofitable position. Thus why the US joined forces with the Allies to eliminate the Nazi threat. There is, by no means, a correlation between what is going on in Ivory Coast today to what happened during WWII.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Pat Robertson came out on Gbagbo's behalf because he's a Christian who broadcasts Pat Robertson's TV show in his country.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201104040016


We've previously detailed (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101240004) how Pat Robertson and his CBN News operation have sided with Ivory Coast leader Laurent Gbagbo, who has refused to leave office following an election that international observers agree he lost. Robertson denied Gbagbo was an "evil thug" and declared of him: "He's a Christian, he's a nice person, and he's run a fairly clean operation in the Ivory Coast."
Since then, conditions in the Ivory Coast have deteriorated. We've noted (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201103090008) that pro-Gbagbo forces have been accused of attacking a peaceful demonstration, killing seven women. Additionally, Human Rights Watch has stated (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hrw.org%2Fnode%2F97358) that the "three-month campaign of organized violence by security forces under the control of Laurent Gbagbo and militias that support him gives every indication of amounting to crimes against humanity." (It also noted human rights violations by supporters of the internationally acknowledged winner of the election, Alassane Ouattara, a Muslim.) More than 100,000 citizens have reportedly fled (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cafonline.org%2FDefault.asp x%3Fpage%3D20030) the country to escape the violence.
CBN did run one article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbn.com%2Fcbnnews%2Fworld%2 F2011%2FMarch%2FIvory-Coast-Violence-Escalates-as-Gbagbo-Digs-In%2F) in March on the escalating violence, but Robertson appears not to have spoken about the Ivory Coast since his January defense of Gbagbo.
Why are CBN and Robertson supporting Gbagbo, and why have they failed to denounce the violence he's being accused of? One possibility: Gbagbo's wife made it possible for CBN to broadcast its evangelical programming in the Ivory Coast, including a localized version of its flagship program The 700 Club.
An undated article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbnafrica.com%2Foutreach%2F civilwarblitz.asp) on the CBN Africa website details a visit to CBN's Virginia headquarters by Gbagbo's wife, Simone (misspelled in the article), who "wanted CBN to provide Christian TV programs for her country" and "would guarantee that the programs would air on national television." The page goes on to tout how a dusk-to-dawn curfew in the country means that "everyone is at home watching TV." From the article:

It all started a little more than a year ago when the First Lady of Ivory Coast visited The Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) in Virginia Beach, Virginia on a special mission. Mrs. Somone Gbagbo, the wife of Ivory Coast President Laurent Gbagbo, wanted CBN to provide Christian TV programs for her country. In return she would guarantee that the programs would air on national television. To respond to the immediate need, episodes of The 700 Club were regularly dubbed into French and shipped for broadcast. The goal, however, was to have an African program that would be tailored for the region with French African hosts. Within a few months, Raymond Kauffee from Cameroon and Macy Domingo from Ivory Coast began hosting Le Club 700 that now airs in French speaking countries throughout the region.
With strong support from pastors of various denominations in Ivory Coast, CBN began to make preparation for an evangelistic media campaign that would take place during the Christmas holidays. What no one expected though, was that the country would erupt into civil war. Fortunately, so far, French troops have managed to keep rebels from entering the capital of Abijan. CBN WorldReach Director Peter Darg writes from the capital; "Daytime in Abidjan seems fairly normal, apart from open bed pickup trucks with cannons mounted on the back driven around town by soldiers who look desperately anxious to shoot at something. French paratroopers are also cruising around in APC's, but nobody seems to know what they are doing or where they are going. With a complete curfew from sun down to sun up, everybody is trying to race around to get to work, school or shopping and mostly creating massive traffic tie ups. After dark, everyone is at home watching TV, so the blitz (media campaign) timing is perfect in this regard (imagine what the USA TV networks would give to force everyone in the country to be in their homes every night watching the TV or face being shot)".
The Ivory Coast media campaign began December 22 and aired in prime time on national TV channel RTI through December 29. In addition to drama, animation and documentary programs, CBN has produced a one-hour special hosted by Kauffee and Domingo that aired on Christmas Day. CBN is also providing a series of 20 half-hour radio programs for the FM station in Abijan, Radio Frequence Vie. These radio programs are based on Pat Robertson's best selling book and TV series Answers. The same package of programs will also be shown in Burkina Faso, Benin, Mali and Senegal. Volunteers will man phones and handle mail response for what is expected to be a massive regional response to the programming.
How important is the timing of this outreach? TV Host Macy Domingo explains: "Now we have a Christian President and the First Lady has even testified about her faith on TV. This has changed the mentality of people because they used to think Christianity was just for poor people. But now they see it's even for high profile people." Macy went on to say that this new openness has created an opportunity for the Gospel, especially now as they are looking for answers and hoping for peace.
Meanwhile, Robertson's CBN has continued its support of Gbagbo with an April 1 article (http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbn.com%2Fcbnnews%2Fworld%2 F2011%2FApril%2FIvory-Coast-Rebels-Attack-Gbagbos-Palace%2F) that includes a friendly interview with Gbagbo's daughter, Marie Singleton, who lives in Maryland. CBN senior reporter George Thomas focused much of the conversation on the Christian faith of Gbagbo's family, making such statements as, "I know that your mom and your dad, the president, President Gbagbo and Mrs. Simone Gbabgo, are strong Christians. You are also a person of faith."
Thomas didn't mention the fact that, as even the CBN article to which the interview is attached noted, "Gbagbo lost last November's presidential election according to his country's election commission and international observers, but has stubbornly refused to step down." And he made no mention at all of the growing accusations of human rights violations by the Gbagbo regime and its supporters.
The apparent centrality of Gbagbo and his wife to CBN's interests in the Ivory Coast is relevant to CBN's reporting on the situation. Obviously, they should do a better job of making that clear.



He's probably a pretty run of the mill nationalist bourgeois if he is relying on folks like Pat Robertson to back him up. Of course, Liberia's murderous Charles Taylor (not to be confused with the eminent canadian philosopher) had connections to Mr Robertson so it should be no surprise (Charles Taylor, of course, also friends with Muammar Gaddafi)

[No_Leaders]

Nazi Germany was an imperialist nation themselves! And they played a role that placed the US in a very unprofitable position. Thus why the US joined forces with the Allies to eliminate the Nazi threat. There is, by no means, a correlation between what is going on in Ivory Coast today to what happened during WWII.

Well yes i know WW2 has nothing to do with this i'm just kind of baffled. I'm not trying to attack you sorry if i came off that way comrade. I'm just curious as to why you feel it's important to support one side over the other. I can understand the idea that the French are acting in an imperialist manner, so why would we support the people the capitalists are fighting to empower correct? But why would we want to support someone who's also killing his own people and an authoritarian hack simply because he's targeted by the imperialist aggressors? Too each his own of course, but I just don't see the point in taking sides in these matters when no one in these conflicts are fighting for the workers. I will admit I think sometimes it is easy to see something unfolding in the world and we tend to take an opinion and take a stand of one side vs the other.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Well yes i know WW2 has nothing to do with this i'm just kind of baffled. I'm not trying to attack you sorry if i came off that way comrade. I'm just curious as to why you feel it's important to support one side over the other. I can understand the idea that the French are acting in an imperialist manner, so why would we support the people the capitalists are fighting to empower correct? But why would we want to support someone who's also killing his own people and an authoritarian hack simply because he's targeted by the imperialist aggressors? Too each his own of course, but I just don't see the point in taking sides in these matters when no one in these conflicts are fighting for the workers. I will admit I think sometimes it is easy to see something unfolding in the world and we tend to take an opinion and take a stand of one side vs the other.

What you're asserting is that Gbagbo has been "massacring" his "people". Though, this turns into another Libya-like subject. What I mean by this is that we're equating people as the whole country, and not putting it into context of who we're actually talking about. Obviously he's not "massacring" the people that support him, who are fighting Ouattara's forces and the imperialists. Is there any account, a legitimate, substantiated account of Gbagbo ordering the deaths of innocent people? Were the ones his forces killed "innocent" or were they armed? If armed, then why make it out as if Gbagbo is "massacring" his people when, in fact, him and those loyal to him are at war with those against him, which now involve the French imperialists?

The point is to show that, whether or not these people are capitalist hacks, the independence, or maybe even the slight independence of a nation from imperialism is a battle against capitalism. It's to ensure that, if any internal conflict was to take place, those resisting do so without the "help" of imperialists, because we know if the imperialists come in to "help" the revolution will be hijacked and the end result won't come in our favor.

Thus why, whether you say it outright or not, if you're opposing imperialism and those fighting alongside them, then you're supporting the other side - the side fighting against imperialism. You're hoping they win and not the imperialists. Support doesn't have to equate with liking who you're supporting. This isn't some "my enemy's enemy is my friend" ordeal. This is about supporting those who stand in the front lines of anti-imperialist struggle. Which, when it comes to Ivory Coast, it's Gbagbo's forces.

During the Chinese war against imperialist Japan, Mao and those loyal to him knew what was needed first - independence! Thus why they joined forces with the Chinese bourgeois state to defend China's sovereignty away from Japanese imperialism. Did Mao and his people like who they were supporting, who they fought alongside with? No, but that wasn't the point. The point was to ensure imperialism didn't get in the way. And to do this, they had realize the current primary antagonism, and that was to ensure China's independence.

This is what's needing to be realized in Ivory Coast. You don't have to like Gbagbo. I don't either. I think Ivory Coast needs a much better leader than him, but idealism can only go so far. We have to remain practical about this and stick to reality. And reality tells us that, it's currently either Gbagbo or Ouattara. Gbagbo represents a capitalist bourgeois state with anti-western internal relations. Whereas Ouattara represents another capitalist bourgeois state, but only this time is representing, not just the western mentality, but also the private corporations and organizations, such as the International Monetary Fund. So, again, whether you like it or not, we do have a limited choice here.

Where I stand is with Gbagbo and those fighting alongside him against Ouattara's forces and the French imperialists. The end result in my favor is the protection of what remains independent from French rule. Whereas, on the contrary, the end result is much worse and will only increase harm to the working class of Ivory Coast. So yes, I am going to make a choice between the two, because that's what anti-imperialists are supposed to do. As I'm an anti-imperialist, my position stands as to where it always is on situations like this - with national liberation.

[CynicalIdealist]

*facepalm*

[The Vegan Marxist]

*facepalm*

Very objective of you, I must say. :rolleyes:

[Hammilton]

Were the ones his forces killed "innocent" or were they armed?

Before he lost, Gbago was indeed killing unarmed civilians. Whether they were just caught in the crossfire is a little less clear, but Gbago has lost now.

This was a guy who came in saying he would be an end to the strongman became one and he lost the vote. plain and simple.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Whether they were just caught in the crossfire is a little less clear

Then I believe this needs to be understood a bit more clearer before people start throwing around claims where ever they like. The UN recently lashed out at Ouattara because they received reports that it was his forces killing innocent civilians. I remember reading a report recently where it stated that Gbagbo's forces came charging in, protecting civilians that were being shot at by Ouattara's forces, and it wasn't written through any media controlled by Gbagbo either.

So, with these conflicting reports, as I said, it needs to be understood a bit better before we start throwing around empty claims.

[bailey_187]

lol, long live the "slightly more indepedent" nation of the Ivory Coast!
long live the very slightly anti-imperialist Gbagbo!

[Sickle-A]

I guess UN peacekeepers are imperialist as well hmm?

Yes.

[The Vegan Marxist]

lol, long live the "slightly more indepedent" nation of the Ivory Coast!
long live the very slightly anti-imperialist Gbagbo!

http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4943878/OBVIOUS-TROLL-IS-OBVIOUS.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=GreenTroll

[t.shonku]

What the hell is going on !

First the french bombed Libya and now attack Ivory coast , it seems like the French have caught a Africa Syndrome just like USA has a Middle Eastern Syndrome . Anyways I hope the brave African people beats back the French invaders just like the Algerian and Vietnamese beat them back 60 years ago. Defeat of French forces will result in rise of left movement in France.


We are with you our African brothers !

[Robespierre Richard]

Ouattara: Employed by the IMF to implement austerity, privatized government assets for sale to French corporations.
Gbagbo: Nationalized healthcare, education, French banks, and part of the cocoa industry. Ended all IMF programs and refused to pay the foreign debt.”
http://exiledonline.com/wn-blog-day-17-the-swampy-smell-of-econ/

Yeah, what a fucking monster. We can only hope that Ouattara's massacre-prone rebels (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12951990) win and he is overthrown. Anyone who's being "anti-imperialist" over this and saying that it's wrong to not oppose interventions is just deluded and making themselves irrelevant.

[khad]

Ouattara has joined hands with the former president Bédié, another IMF banker type.

If you remember, Bédié was the fucker who started the nativist Ivorité nonsense, so any claim that Ouattara is representing the disenfranchised workers of the north (and not just serving his opportunistic neoliberal power grab) should be met with healthy skepticism.

He also promises "shock treatment" for the Ivory Coast and its economy.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Ouattara: Employed by the IMF to implement austerity, privatized government assets for sale to French corporations.
Gbagbo: Nationalized healthcare, education, French banks, and part of the cocoa industry. Ended all IMF programs and refused to pay the foreign debt.”
http://exiledonline.com/wn-blog-day-17-the-swampy-smell-of-econ/

Yeah, what a fucking monster. We can only hope that Ouattara's massacre-prone rebels (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12951990) win and he is overthrown. Anyone who's being "anti-imperialist" over this and saying that it's wrong to not oppose interventions is just deluded and making themselves irrelevant.

Was your last sentence sarcasm? Because if not, I'd recommend getting checked for bipolar disorder. lol

[Robespierre Richard]

Was your last sentence sarcasm? Because if not, I'd recommend getting checked for bipolar disorder. lol

http://www.animated-gif.net/wp-content/uploads/191/sarcasm-detector.gif

[Rjevan]

Seems like it's over for now:

Laurent Gbagbo whose refusal to step down as president of Ivory Coast has plunged the country into violence, has been detained in Abidjan by opposition forces.

News of his capture came after a column of more than 30 French armoured vehicles closed in on his residence in the city.

A spokesman for Alassane Ouattara, who won last year's presidential election, told the Guardian: "It's true. Gbagbo has been taken to the Golf hotel by republican forces. Our forces went to the residence this morning and took him out."

Another Ouattara adviser, Mamado Touré, confirmed that Gbagbo was with his family at the hotel.

Other news sources have reported that Gbagbo was handed over to the French by his own "presidential guard".

Although the precise details of the capture remain unclear, both the French ministry of defence and "diplomatic sources" are maintaining that it was Ouattara's forces who captured Gbagbo. Earlier, however, France's ambassador to Ivory Coast said Gbagbo had been detained by French special forces.
[...]
France, the former colonial power in Ivory Coast which has more than 1,600 troops in the country, has taken a lead role in efforts to persuade Gbagbo to relinquish power, infuriating his supporters who accuse Paris of neo-colonialism.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/11/laurent-gbagbo-detained-ivory-coast

Another puppet successfully installed. But hey, it's clearly a victory of the forces of democracy and freedom in the humanitarian struggle against bloodthirsty dictators! At least we don't have to worry anymore about Gbagbo plunging his country into violence. Now it's time for imperialist-sanctioned democratically elected mass murder.

[chegitz guevara]

Gbagbo was done for regardless of the French intervention. The Outtara forces had already conquered the whole country except for the main city.

[agnixie]

Seems like it's over for now:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/11/laurent-gbagbo-detained-ivory-coast

Another puppet successfully installed. But hey, it's clearly a victory of the forces of democracy and freedom in the humanitarian struggle against bloodthirsty dictators! At least we don't have to worry anymore about Gbagbo plunging his country into violence. Now it's time for imperialist-sanctioned democratically elected mass murder.

Either way, unless there was a revolution, the only winner was going to be Françafrique.

Gbagbo was a virtual puppet, too. The cohabitation only ended in '04.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Either way, unless there was a revolution, the only winner was going to be Françafrique.

Gbagbo was a virtual puppet, too. The cohabitation only ended in '04.

That's way too simplistic for my liking. You make it out as if one is in equal relation of suffering to the working class to the other. Those presiding in Ivory Coast will now, more than likely, suffer more than ever, because everything that was nationalized in Ivory Coast will go through privatization, the economy will more than likely be run through French private corporations, etc. etc. Like it or not, under realistic terms, the working class were under better conditions through Gbagbo than they will be through Ouattara.

[agnixie]

That's way too simplistic for my liking. You make it out as if one is in equal relation of suffering to the working class to the other. Those presiding in Ivory Coast will now, more than likely, suffer more than ever, because everything that was nationalized in Ivory Coast will go through privatization, the economy will more than likely be run through French private corporations, etc. etc. Like it or not, under realistic terms, the working class were under better conditions through Gbagbo than they will be through Ouattara.

So instead of Gbagbo lining his pockets with the toil of wage (and no so wage) slaves, Ouattara and his french friends are going to be the ones.

I am constantly in awe of the mental gymnastics required to make a feudal plantocrat seem like the better option than an IMF banker, as opposed to both options being equally bad and equally imperialist friendly.

The working class didn't win with Gbagbo, except if the right to be oppressed by locals instead of foreigners is to be considered a victory.

[Chimurenga.]

So instead of Gbagbo lining his pockets with the toil of wage (and no so wage) slaves, Ouattara and his french friends are going to be the ones.

I am constantly in awe of the mental gymnastics required to make a feudal plantocrat seem like the better option than an IMF banker, as opposed to both options being equally bad and equally imperialist friendly.

The working class didn't win with Gbagbo, except if the right to be oppressed by locals instead of foreigners is to be considered a victory.

So do you plan on sitting on the fence until someone comes to power who fits your approval?

Such a rudimentary way to look at things.

"Hurr none of them are like working class leaders so therefore durr I dont really like have an opinion besides both like suck."

If you don't understand the difference between a somewhat "corrupt" (evidence of which remains to be seen) social democrat and a blatant IMF economist, I have to wonder why you are even on this messageboard.

You anarchists....

[agnixie]

So do you plan on sitting on the fence until someone comes to power who fits your approval?

Such a rudimentary way to look at things.

"Hurr none of them are like working class leaders so therefore durr I dont really like have an opinion besides both like suck."

A) I'm not sitting on the fence, that's your first mistake
B) Unlike certain groups, I'm not a left-messianic, I'm an anarchist, I don't wait for "someone" to come to power. Second mistake.
C) The rudimentary way to view things is "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." The more nuanced and historically savvy view is "the enemy of my enemy will potentially still shoot me in the back." Nuance which you're obviously not making. And here is mistake 3.

I have a clear opinion. They both deserve to end their life with their back against a fucking wall.

EDIT - And if we stick to leaders, there are other Ivorian leaders than these two, many of them actual people who give a fuck about workers. Sadly neither happens to have the benefits of force of arms.

[Chimurenga.]

A) I'm not sitting on the fence, that's your first mistake

Ya. You totally are.


B) Unlike certain groups, I'm not a left-messianic, I'm an anarchist, I don't wait for "someone" to come to power. Second mistake.

This is no mistake, you really live in a dream world.


C) The rudimentary way to view things is "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." The more nuanced and historically savvy view is "the enemy of my enemy will potentially still shoot me in the back." Nuance which you're obviously not making. And here is mistake 3.

More simplicity coming from you. Of course you would ignore the present contradictions in Cote d'Ivoire but hey, while you were too busy fence riding, the reactionary IMF puppet is coming to claim his throne. You know what that means? All the nationalization, the social services, and the cancellation of the debts will go with Gbagbo. But, wait, you care about "the working class"?

Yeah fucking right.

It's open season in Cote d'Ivoire now.

[agnixie]

It's open season in Cote d'Ivoire now.

It was already open season. A reactionary is still a reactionary, and a feudal overlord is still a feudal overlord, strings or not.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Both options are shitty, just because someone says one of them is shitty doesn't mean they have to support the other one

[The Vegan Marxist]

I don't care if a country is invaded by an imperialist power, because both are iron-fisted bad men! Who cares if the working class will now suffer more? I believe in communism (with the exception of ensuring the safety of Ivory Coast working class, that is).

Fixed. :thumbup1:

[Aspiring Humanist]

Fixed. :thumbup1:

First of all I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth. Second of all, you really think the working people would suffer more under some western puppet than Gbagbo? His supporters just killed 800 civilians. Gbagbo is no hero to the working class, nor is he resisting imperialism. He just wants to stay in power.

[The Vegan Marxist]

First of all I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth. Second of all, you really think the working people would suffer more under some western puppet than Gbagbo? His supporters just killed 800 civilians. Gbagbo is no hero to the working class, nor is he resisting imperialism. He just wants to stay in power.

That was actually Ouattara, not Gbagbo:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/ouattara-supporters-murder-t152773/index.html?t=152773

[Aspiring Humanist]

That was actually Ouattara, not Gbagbo:

Well thats embarrassing. I admit defeat

[DaringMehring]

Just because Ouattara and Gbagbo are both bad, does not mean we should be indifferent to French imperialism. To hell with the invasion of Ivory Coast! Get the thugs of French capitalism out of there!

Just like in Libya, the rebels are increasingly CIA-controlled, while Gaddafi is also terrible. BUT of course communists still oppose NATO/US intervention. The USA isn't going to make things better in that country.

Of course, the ones who can really affect this struggle are the French communists. At least, the great French Party Lutte Ouvriere has written a good article about it http://www.lutte-ouvriere-journal.org/?act=artl&num=2227&id=22

"French imperialism defends neither peace nor civilian populations. If that was the case, why would it have waited so for a long time, while everybody knew that Gbagbo supporters were perpetuating assassinations and acts of violence against populations suspected of being favourable to Ouattara?"

"In fact Sarkozy, faithful to the long tradition of the colonizers, intervened to protect the interests of the financial and industrial groups which established themselves in Ivory Coast."

...

"French Troops, out of the Ivory Coast!"