Personally, I'm for Libyan workers but against the Transitional Council and Gaddafi

[CynicalIdealist]

Who's with me?

Fuck both sides and intervention. You'd have to be a tool to support either side here.

[Imposter Marxist]

Not taking sides is taking a side.

[Agent Ducky]

Not taking sides is taking a side.

If not taking sides is taking a side... Then a person who decides not to take sides is taking a side and therefore they are not not taking sides and therefore not taking that side and....

Wait, waht?

[StalinFanboy]

Not taking sides is taking a side.

Both Gadaffi and the rebels are on the same side - the ruling class. Not choosing to take a side between the two is certainly taking a side... that of the proletariat.

In any case, any talk of supporting "sides" for anyone outside of Libya amounts to ideological posturing.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Many of the rebels and the government fighters are being exploited. The rebel fighters themselves seem to include many of the unemployed and underemployed, but the "council" seems to be more of the same. Gaddafi soldiers themselves probably buy a lot of the crazy propaganda from the government. Who knows? Ultimately we have to go off of what the journalists are saying because we're not there.

[timofey]

"I'm for Libyan workers" = trite, meaningless phrase

What you actually mean to say is "I really hope US imperialism is successful, but I'm too afraid to admit it, cause I'll be exposed for a fraud."

Lots of people like Lenina have the courage to openly say they support US imperialism. You should try being honest.

[zimmerwald1915]

US imperialism has its tentacles in both the established state and in the National Council. It will "succeed" if either force establishes itself as the supreme power in Libya. Even if this were not true in the case of the US specifically, it would be true in the case of imperialism as a whole. Not all the big imperialist powers would have stuck all their eggs in the same basket, and some imperialism would come out ahead no matter which force established itself as supreme.

[CynicalIdealist]

"I'm for Libyan workers" = trite, meaningless phrase

What you actually mean to say is "I really hope US imperialism is successful, but I'm too afraid to admit it, cause I'll be exposed for a fraud."

Lots of people like Lenina have the courage to openly say they support US imperialism. You should try being honest.

I'm against U.S. intervention in WWI. Therefore, I side with Germany... wait no. That's not how it works.

But nice try.

[Raubleaux]

"I'm for Libyan workers" = trite, meaningless phrase

Exactly. Everybody is "for the Libyan workers." Even the capitalist bosses. Lending support to a meaningless abstraction is not hard.

[Luís Henrique]

Not choosing to take a side between the two is certainly taking a side... that of the proletariat.

This seems oversimplistic. It is perfectly possible to not take sides between Gaddafy and the rebels, and still vehemently oppose the proletariat. The isolationist right in the United States would be an example. The Russian State would be another.

Luís Henrique

[sister harb]

I am for Libyans 100%. They too have right to decide they own country. :lol:

[Artemis3]

Ultimately we have to go off of what the journalists are saying because we're not there.

There is a lot of lies coming from the media there. There are over 70 international Journalists in Tripoli and most won't even leave the Hotel "because there is no blood yet" and spend time relaxing at the pool and such. Corporate media is pathetic and only care for their own interests. And let me remind you: Al Jazeera = Qatar Emirate, Al Arabiya = Saudi Kingdom.

How do i know? Because my country sent Journalists both to Tripoli and Benghazi in the beginning of the conflict, when our multi-state news network was little know there, and suddenly not so ugly images from Tripoli were being broadcast live when everyone else was saying the city was in flames and Gaddafi had fled... Earned a not so nice reputation in the powers involved; and particularly disturbing to dare not join the anti-Gaddafi bashing and praise the noble rebels, opting instead to just show what was going on however good or bad for the parties involved.

Yes it is TeleSUR, they did it in Honduras, in Ecuador, and now Libya. CNN and others have noticed, even Al Jazeera which does have cooperation agreements with TeleSUR. Powers do not like being challenged, and there is no greater power than information to manufacture a war where there is none, or to support the side it benefits me more.

Libya is a perfect example, because it shows the truth, it wasn't the innocent pacifist movement like in Tunez; rising against an evil regime blah blah. No, the situation in Libya is much closer to a civil war, with both sides heavily armed, and both sides committing atrocities; remember the anti black African purge "Gaddafi mercenaries" conveniently named, when many were simply poor seeking emigrate to Europe.

The famous air-strike against civilians never recorded or photographed in a country where everyone has a cellphone capable of; and yet the Israelis are bored of throwing missiles and white phosphor against Palestinian civilians including women and children with nobody caring. The international community are the worst hypocrites, using "humanitarian reasons" to intervene, yet conveniently ignoring the much much worse situation in Palestine and elsewhere.

I have some more information you will not like. The quality of living in Gaddafi's Libya is way too good. Yes, anyone can get an apartment and a car, their health and education is simply the best in Africa, the fact they import workers is simply because there are more projects than people to build them. A guy can go to a car dealer to buy a 3000 dinar car, give only 100 upfront and have the rest financed for 30 years with zero interest rate (remember Islam doesn't allow interests). Everyone can go to a bank to ask for a small credit by just showing their id; mostly because everyone gets a state earning from the oil so you can never run out of money.

These people lived way too good. Weren't you surprised when not all of Libya suddenly rose against Gaddafi? That is why. And now, bombs are falling on their homes, because some bourgeois guys wanted more for them. Furthermore, the rebels have sided with the imperialists, European powers and even neighboring Emirates and Kingdoms, what with the rebels already handing the oil production to Qatar, how convenient.

Don't be naive, there was an obvious attempt to instigate a revolt in Syria, but it failed miserably. You think that was a genuine innocent people's movement? No, the imperialists are at work, trying to induce changes favorable to them.

That doesn't mean all of the movements are fake, the ones in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Yemen appear to be genuine, and there were attempts in Morocco and possibly Qatar but some are plain manipulation and media lie.

Of course its the Libyans right to choose their own government, not us, not NATO, nor the Arab League or the UN, nobody but them. If we accept NATO aids one side, then anyone is morally allowed to aid the other side; of course the exploited workers are the only ones losing here.

[Rafiq]

Really, because it appears that the working class in Libya lacks presence on either sides.

[Luís Henrique]

Really, because it appears that the working class in Libya lacks presence on either sides.

If we contort the definition enough, we reach the conclusion that there is no working class in Libya. Heck, if we really contort the definition, we can come to the conclusion that there is no working class wherever.

The point being, to whom is it interesting to shrink the working class until it doesn't exist?

Luís Henrique