2,000 + Marines Sent to Libya – Obama Lied Again

[The Vegan Marxist]

8WaXEtjxKwU

[Queercommie Girl]

Obama has told more lies than truths in his whole life, IMO.

[Threetune]

Obama has told more lies than truths in his whole life, IMO.

Oh ye, and what about the Trot cheerleaders?

[Queercommie Girl]

Oh ye, and what about the Trot cheerleaders?

Are you a sectarianist or something?

You might not be a Trot, (nor am I actually in a formal sense) but any genuine socialist can see that Trotskyists generally are still better and more honest than someone like Obama.

Obama is even worse than Ed Milliband and is completely in pursuit of neo-liberal capitalist policies at home and imperialist policies abroad.

[Threetune]

Are you a sectarianist or something?

You might not be a Trot, (nor am I actually in a formal sense) but any genuine socialist can see that Trotskyists generally are still better and more honest than someone like Obama.

Obama is even worse than Ed Milliband and is completely in pursuit of neo-liberal capitalist policies at home and imperialist policies abroad.

Maybe, but the “better and more honest” Trotskyites have been cheerleading the advanced "rebel" troops from the start.

[communard71]

More Marines for the slaughter in another Imperialist mission, F Obama and his bull. It actually makes me nauseous. :cursing:

[mosfeld]

Are the reactionary social-chauvinists on this forum who supported the "no-fly zone" going to continue their cheerleading for imperialism now?

[Threetune]

More Marines for the slaughter in another Imperialist mission, F Obama and his bull. It actually makes me nauseous. :cursing:

"nauseous"? Is it enough to make you a revolutionary communist?

[Threetune]

Are the reactionary social-chauvinists on this forum who supported the "no-fly zone" going to continue their cheerleading for imperialism now?

Fucking right they are!

[manic expression]

I bet the imperialists are singing the Marines' hymn:

From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli, we fight our country's battles in the air, on land, and sea.

Maybe some of the "left" can join in with them.


Obama has told more lies than truths in his whole life, IMO.
At this point the man is practically a walking, talking lie.

[communard71]

"nauseous"? Is it enough to make you a revolutionary communist?
Like go underground and start buliding bombs? Not yet. Continue to fight in every other way. Yes.

[Red_Struggle]

I'm gonna include this in my English assignment essay. My conservative professor is gonna love this :)

[Threetune]

I'm gonna include this in my English assignment essay. My conservative professor is gonna love this :)



Never forget the diversionary, confusing reactionary role that the ‘left’ liberal sand Trotskyites played in propagandising for the scum “rebel” vanguard of this imperialist blitz and invasion.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Actually for once im going to have to take a different side on this.

there were originally 400 marines stationed off the coast of libya with amphibious assault ships, and 2,000 more marines are just going to be shipped there as well. there hasnt been any major ground commitment besides the CIA and various special forces groups.

so, 2400 mariens arent actually in Libya YET. they are just preparing to do so.

[Threetune]

Actually for once im going to have to take a different side on this.

there were originally 400 marines stationed off the coast of libya with amphibious assault ships, and 2,000 more marines are just going to be shipped there as well. there hasnt been any major ground commitment besides the CIA and various special forces groups.

so, 2400 mariens arent actually in Libya YET. they are just preparing to do so.


Oh, they might be planning to deliver humanitarian aid.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Oh, they might be planning to deliver humanitarian aid.
:laugh: If humanitarian aid means one shot, one kill

[Metacomet]

Oh, they might be planning to deliver humanitarian aid.


Why not do it with a bunch of nuns and doctors.

I love the notion of "But the armed services are REALLY humanitarian organizations first and foremost!"

[Impulse97]

Maybe, but the “better and more honest” Trotskyites have been cheerleading the advanced "rebel" troops from the start.

I beg to differ. I advocated no such thing. Your generalizations are not based on fact and therefore should be ignored by anyone with half a brain.

[Threetune]

I beg to differ. I advocated no such thing. Your generalizations are not based on fact and therefore should be ignored by anyone with half a brain.

Then you argue with this.

Support Libyan revolution, Oppose imperialist aggression!

“To oppose – that is, demonstrate against, and make a serious effort to prevent – the limited military action against Qaddafi, is to tell the rebels in Benghazi “you’re on your own.”
What socialist would want to send out such a message? Only one not deserving the name.
”http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/03/20 (http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/03/20)

Fucking reactionary morons.

[Dimentio]

Never forget the diversionary, confusing reactionary role that the ‘left’ liberal sand Trotskyites played in propagandising for the scum “rebel” vanguard of this imperialist blitz and invasion.


Uhh. Whatever you or the Trotskyists are saying doesn't matter so very much. It isn't like you are authorities for the public.

[TC]

The title of this thread implies that there will be 2000 marines in Libya...and people seem to assume that these are 2000 "boots on the ground."

I oppose the intervention/no-fly zone, the bombings, and the "transitional council" - but this is not an invasion force. They are deployed off the coast of Libya. So it is too early to say "Obama lied."

And if you think about it, if they were going to invade, it wouldn't be with 2000 soldiers, it would be in the mid tens of thousands at minimal.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Never forget the diversionary, confusing reactionary role that the ‘left’ liberal sand Trotskyites played in propagandising for the scum “rebel” vanguard of this imperialist blitz and invasion.


I've found that St. John's Wort is very good for calming down. Its a natural anti-depressant and doesn't have the same side effects as Prozac or whatever other stuff they put people on.Its non-prescription and you can get it at your local convenience store

Worker's Liberty, the group you quoted, is a pro-Zionist fringe outfit and is not typical of the Trotskyist movement. Most Trots dislike them.

[El Chuncho]

Obama has told more lies than truths in his whole life, IMO.

Yep, a true capitalist politician, only marginally better than the USA republicans.

[Threetune]

I've found that St. John's Wort is very good for calming down. Its a natural anti-depressant and doesn't have the same side effects as Prozac or whatever other stuff they put people on.Its non-prescription and you can get it at your local convenience store

Worker's Liberty, the group you quoted, is a pro-Zionist fringe outfit and is not typical of the Trotskyist movement. Most Trots dislike them.

Then you can calmly explain the majority Trotskyist positions for us if you’re feel up to it.

[Rafiq]

Why are we surprised? I knew he would lie from the very begginging.

Historical events always take place when we don't expect them to. Everyone was thinking Iran would become another Iraq, but surprisingly, it was Libya.

[PhoenixAsh]

....so...this thread managed to detriorate within three posts into a secrtarian jib-fest.

Goody. :rolleyes:

This is worrying news. It shows they are planning and preparing for something wider. THese people may not be on the ground yet, but they will be. Its like the 8000 military advisors in Vietnam....first they were just there for advisory and training purposes only...and we all know how that ended up.

[Fulanito de Tal]

This is worrying news. It shows they are planning and preparing for something wider. THese people may not be on the ground yet, but they will be. Its like the 8000 military advisors in Vietnam....first they were just there for advisory and training purposes only...and we all know how that ended up.

I agree. We are sold wars through foot-in-the-door techniques. Little by little the conflict increases until we realize that we were duped into another war.

[Amphictyonis]

Oh, they might be planning to deliver humanitarian aid.

I hear they've been putting food rations in the bombs.

[Ocean Seal]

This is why I despise and I mean absolute despise liberals. I truly hate them more than I hate conservatives. I swear, liberals are the worst. They'll buy anything so long as its under the frilly cover of humanitarianism. They will support any occupation however abhorrent so long as its brought forth by one of them. I have a soch teacher in my school who repeatedly trumpets everything that Obama does as the greatest action ever taken.

Invasion of Libya. Well Qaddafi would have killed hundreds of thousands in Benghazi had he gotten there... Then I asked why the fuck they had to bomb Tripoli. She came up with the absurd excuse that we were bombing strong military points and that we hadn't killed any civilians. Really because last time I checked missiles weren't smart enough to differentiate between civilian and military populations. Americans always say this crap. Well the missiles only kill terrorists because they're terrorist seeking missiles you know like heat seeking but better. I told her about the stories that Gates made up about how Qaddafi was killing people and moving the bodies to the bombing sites and how ridiculous a story the imperialists can come up with when they have to deal with the dead. She replied with well we haven't killed that many... I said give NATO time and perhaps they'll bring it up to 7 figures like Iraq.

I absolutely hate how liberals can support bombing a place to hell in the name of human rights. At least the conservatives say well we're bombing the crap out of them because America is the greatest and we'll we honestly just don't give a fuck about those people and we like oil. There we said it. With liberals you have the its the right thing to do crap. America has a duty to intervene because we're a superpower.

Bush: Tax cuts for the rich; War In Iraq & Afghanistan; crappy economy; huge budget deficit
Obama:Bailout for the rich; War in Libya; crappy economy; huge budget deficit and high unemployment

Vote Democrat guise they ''rreee like the only viable <<ist party in the US right!!!!
Fuck everyone who tells me that there is a difference between the two parties.

[El Chuncho]

This is why I despise and I mean absolute despise liberals. I truly hate them more than I hate conservatives.
:blink:

Liberals do suck, but in some ways they are atleast on the right track. They have one foot forward, but conservative have one foot backwards.





I swear, liberals are the worst. They'll buy anything so long as its under the frilly cover of humanitarianism. They will support any occupation however abhorrent so long as its brought forth by one of them. I have a soch teacher in my school who repeatedly trumpets everything that Obama does as the greatest action ever taken.

Yes that is bad, but I would hardly say Obama and his Liberals are worse than Bush and his fascists...sorry ''conservatives''.




I absolutely hate how liberals can support bombing a place to hell in the name of human rights. At least the conservatives say well we're bombing the crap out of them because America is the greatest and we'll we honestly just don't give a fuck about those people and we like oil.

Which conservative have you been listening to? Most claim that their wars are to preserve democracy and human lives. They say the same thing, in other words,








Fuck everyone who tells me that there is a difference between the two parties.

But you think there is a different, or you wouldn't hate one (liberals) more than the other (conservatism).

Yes, I hate both, but the liberals are marginally better than the conservatives.

[Amphictyonis]

but the liberals are marginally better than the conservatives.

Do 'conservatives' have the ability to co-op the anti war and pro labor movement? What the Democrats essentially do is get the stamp of approval from the "left" for the very same polices the "right" would enact. Obama should be the wake up call for most people who think Democrats are better than Republicans. The Democrats are better at marginalizing the left while the Republicans seem better at creating a broader leftist resistance to conservative policies (ironically the same conservative policies Democrats enact into law). It's all a bad joke at this point. A big bad sad joke.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Then you can calmly explain the majority Trotskyist positions for us if you’re feel up to it.

Vehement opposition to the no fly zone , the bombings, and US/NATO aid to the rebels.

Opposition to Qaddaffi.

Support for the revolution against Qaddaffi and working class elements within it.

This is dialectical thinking.

[ckaihatsu]

Then you argue with this.

Support Libyan revolution, Oppose imperialist aggression!

“To oppose – that is, demonstrate against, and make a serious effort to prevent – the limited military action against Qaddafi, is to tell the rebels in Benghazi “you’re on your own.”
What socialist would want to send out such a message? Only one not deserving the name.
”http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/03/20 (http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/03/20)

Fucking reactionary morons.


Here's the part right after the part you posted, to put it back into context. The whole article is below, from Google's web cache.





There is of course no reason to trust the armies of the West, or their Arab allies, to bring democracy to Libya or anywhere else. There is no guarantee that Western intervention will even succeed in its short-term aim of halting Qaddafi’s advance.

The force which is advancing democracy across the Middle East is the mass movement, above all the workers’ movement. In Egypt a new, independent trade union federation has been formed in the midst of a wave of militant strikes.

This is the agency to which socialists look to transform the Middle East.





Libya: no illusions in West but “anti-intervention” opposition is abandoning rebels

Submitted on 20 March, 2011 - 09:11 Libya Solidarity 3/198, 23 March 2011
Author: Clive Bradley

On 17 March, after much procrastination, the United Nations agreed to military action against Libya’s dictator Muammar Qaddafi, whose murderous forces were advancing on the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

The Stop the War Coalition immediately issued a statement condemning “a new war”, and “escalating armed intervention in Libya”. Socialist Worker headlined “No to intervention in Libya! Victory to Arab revolutions!” Much other left-wing commentary has focused on opposing intervention.

But the rebel forces in Benghazi greeted the UN decision with jubilation. Benghazi is a city where Qaddafi has, in the past, conducted the mass public execution of oppositionists. They knew what they could expect if Qaddafi triumphed. And it seemed likely that Qaddafi was on the verge of defeating the revolution, or at least inflicting terrible slaughter.

To oppose – that is, demonstrate against, and make a serious effort to prevent – the limited military action against Qaddafi, is to tell the rebels in Benghazi “you’re on your own.”

What socialist would want to send out such a message? Only one not deserving the name.

There is of course no reason to trust the armies of the West, or their Arab allies, to bring democracy to Libya or anywhere else. There is no guarantee that Western intervention will even succeed in its short-term aim of halting Qaddafi’s advance.

The force which is advancing democracy across the Middle East is the mass movement, above all the workers’ movement. In Egypt a new, independent trade union federation has been formed in the midst of a wave of militant strikes.

This is the agency to which socialists look to transform the Middle East.

But neither such workers’ movements nor the labour movement internationally have a military force of our own to come to the aid of Benghazi. We can build our own forms of solidarity with the popular movement in Libya. We can be vigilant against whatever political steps the Western powers take (including, for example, any attempt to rehabilitate Qaddafi, which they may think is the best, most "stable" option).

But what issue of principle should make us demonstrate against the one thing which might prevent untold slaughter, prevent Qaddafi’s immediate bloody victory, and therefore a crushing defeat for the wave of revolutions?

It is not good enough for socialists to point out that Cameron, et al, are no friends of the Libyan people. Indeed they are not. But what do you propose to do, instead, then, to prevent Qaddafi crushing his enemies? Socialists either address this real, life-and-death question or they are irrelevant poseurs.

It’s not good enough to argue that the West has supported dictators in the past and will do so again. Of course it will. But how able the West is to impose its agenda on the Middle East in future depends on the self-confidence of the mass movement. A terrible defeat in Libya might sap that self-confidence much more than a temporary acceptance of Western assistance.

We need to develop a strong solidarity campaign which is independent of Western (or Arab) governments. We need, in particular, to help the new Egyptian workers’ movement to continue to grow and develop, which could have an immense, positive effect on the whole region.

Instead, some socialists have responded to this crisis by putting their hostility to America above the lives of the Libyan rebels.

And this is a shameful disgrace.

[Rakhmetov]

Let them. All this shit is going to boomerang like a motherfucker! Then they call it "terrorism" when it should be called REVENGE. :(

[Rakhmetov]

The title of this thread implies that there will be 2000 marines in Libya...and people seem to assume that these are 2000 "boots on the ground."

I oppose the intervention/no-fly zone, the bombings, and the "transitional council" - but this is not an invasion force. They are deployed off the coast of Libya. So it is too early to say "Obama lied."

And if you think about it, if they were going to invade, it wouldn't be with 2000 soldiers, it would be in the mid tens of thousands at minimal.


It is an auxillary force to supplement the Lybian rebels and to contain the struggle--- to make sure it does not take a leftist turn. Open your eyes!!!

[Threetune]

Vehement opposition to the no fly zone , the bombings, and US/NATO aid to the rebels.

This is simply pacifism as espoused by the Quakers and the ‘Stop the War Coalition’.


Opposition to Qaddaffi.

This is pure opportunism aping, exactly the anti-Qaddaffi sentiment of the capitalist press.


Support for the revolution against Qaddaffi and working class elements within it..

This is the same position that NATO takes, so why support “working class elements” which are working with NATO? As with working class “elements” anywhere, who join the reactionary side in anti-imperialist wars, and there are plenty of them, they have to be broken away from the reactionary ‘rebel’ leadership if they are to have any prospect of a socialist future. But because your main agenda, like imperialism, is “Support for the revolution (coup) against Qaddaffi”, you want the “working class elements” to stay “within it”.
Why do you not agitate for workers everywhere, especially in the imperialist states, to break with their reactionary leaders and work for the defeat of this and all imperialist war plans.


This is dialectical thinking.

You should try revolutionary communist thinking instead.

[Threetune]

Here's the part right after the part you posted, to put it back into context. The whole article is below, from Google's web cache.

From Socialis Appeal:

"There is of course no reason to trust the armies of the West, or their Arab allies, to bring democracy to Libya or anywhere else. There is no guarantee that Western intervention will even succeed in its short-term aim of halting Qaddafi’s advance.

The force which is advancing democracy across the Middle East is the mass movement, above all the workers’ movement. In Egypt a new, independent trade union federation has been formed in the midst of a wave of militant strikes.



This is the agency to which socialists look to transform the Middle East."

The whole article is a sly attempt to cover the fact that in Libya the working class ‘as a class’, is not “advancing democracy” independently of the capitalists. It is split between two bourgeois nationalist camps and the rebel camp is inviting imperialist support to help establish a more firm capitalist dictatorship than currently exists.

[El Chuncho]

Do 'conservatives' have the ability to co-op the anti war and pro labor movement?

You are banned but to indulge my Stalinist ego I will reply anyway...


What the Democrats essentially do is get the stamp of approval from the "left" for the very same polices the "right" would enact.

That may be partly true, but you have to admit that they are at least a tad more left than the conservatives, or would rather follow George W. Bush than Obama? I would follow neither, but I would take liberalism, with some left ideals, over conservatism, with no left ideals, any day.


Obama should be the wake up call for most people who think Democrats are better than Republicans.

Not really, Obama is marginally more competent and a better leader than Bush.


The Democrats are better at marginalizing the left while the Republicans seem better at creating a broader leftist resistance to conservative policies (ironically the same conservative policies Democrats enact into law). It's all a bad joke at this point. A big bad sad joke.

Do you know what I think is a bad joke? Anyone who would take the conservatives over the centrists? What next, are fascists better than conservatives? No, sorry, there are levels of acceptable and conservatives are just under far-rightists.

[ckaihatsu]

The whole article is a sly attempt to cover the fact that in Libya the working class ‘as a class’, is not “advancing democracy” independently of the capitalists. It is split between two bourgeois nationalist camps and the rebel camp is inviting imperialist support to help establish a more firm capitalist dictatorship than currently exists.


From what I've been able to gather it looks like much of the actual work in Libya is done by immigrant labor, and I haven't seen any politics that speaks to the self-empowerment of the working class of Libya, of either nationals or immigrants.