Why is it so easy for people?

[The Man]

I have a friend (Well, Former Friend now), who recently converted to Nazism. I asked him why he would ever do that. He told me that the Swastika looked cool, and the salute was cool also. I just called him a disgusting pig, and walked away.

Why is it so easy for people to go to White Nationalism in an instant just because "Sieg Heiling" looks cool? Or the Swastika looks cool?

It's outrageous.

[Paulappaul]

Patriotism, Nationalism, Racism, appeals to those basic instincts and desires. They don't require any internal thought, any outward action, any sympathy or kindness, only blind obedience. It makes total sense why Facism is a popular movement, and why today even in light of so much awareness of its danger, it is pursued by so many.

The simple course of action against it, is not fighting it, but fighting Capitalism itself.

[The Douche]

He's probably not really interested in national socialism.

He probably wants to sound edgey and shocking, so he's a "nazi". You've never encountered kids who play a little command and conquer, watch "enemy at the gates", and decide they are "communists"? The site soviet-empire.com is full of such people.

Most of these kids get over it, but they should be encouraged to do so.

[The Man]

He's probably not really interested in national socialism.

He probably wants to sound edgey and shocking, so he's a "nazi". You've never encountered kids who play a little command and conquer, watch "enemy at the gates", and decide they are "communists"? The site soviet-empire.com is full of such people.

Most of these kids get over it, but they should be encouraged to do so.

That website makes me puke.

[CommunistsUnite]

Patriotism, Nationalism, Racism, appeals to those basic instincts and desires. They don't require any internal thought, any outward action, any sympathy or kindness, only blind obedience. It makes total sense why Facism is a popular movement, and why today even in light of so much awareness of its danger, it is pursued by so many.

The simple course of action against it, is not fighting it, but fighting Capitalism itself.

I've never heard of Facism, but I don't see any proper Fascists romping the streets of my neighborhood. There are plenty of neo-Nazis, although none of them know jack about Hitler or National Socialism, and I have seen quite a few of them paying homage to the :reda: symbol. I just laugh as I walk by them.

[Sosa]

How old is your former friend?

[MarxSchmarx]

Although I think your friend is, as other posters noticed, most likely just a juvenile fool, there is a real question about why these insane world views attract working people.

Basically they are mirroring society's racism.

Here's why.

One thing to consider is the confirmation bias, which basically states that we tend to exaggerate "evidence" that fits in with our social indoctrination.

For example, if one sees say a person with a yarmlke haggling at a flea market, even if they know better, they might think to themselves "well that figures". By contrast, they tend not to notice the same person giving money to a homeless begger later on, but if they see a Catholic nun doing so they remember the instance of the nun.

One pernicious consequence of this is that we tend to assume that people's accomplishments and failures are a result of something "innate" about them. Thus there is something "innate" about an Irish person getting arrested for driving while drunk or a black athlete winning a gold medal. It need not extend to race, but given how deeply racial assumptions permeate social consciousness throughout the world, it's quite common for people to assume that the high standard of living among White Australians compared to aboriginals, say, has more to do with the "innate superiority" of the white race as opposed to the "innate inferiority" of the aboriginals. This, instead of focusing on the fact that, you know, white settlers brought with them the what trickled down to them after 4000 years of agricultural civilization, confiscated aboriginal land and slaughtered them with guns and germs. But never mind all that, there is something "genetic" about why the suburbs of Sydney have their green lawns and 4000 square foot houses while aboriginals live in places accessible only by bush planes.

Unfortunately the only thing "innate" and potentially "genetic" about these white supremecist conclusions is the intellectual laziness of the white supremacists and their unwillingness to move on past their primal urges to submit to the confirmation bias.

Indeed it is for reasons such as these that very often the struggle against white supremacy is a struggle against cultural attitudes and social assumptions. Changing individual behavior and opinions alone without changing the prevailing understanding of race, for example, is going to leave a segment of the population always finding some solace and reinforcement in the confirmation bias.

[DuracellBunny97]

He could have just become a Hindu Fascist, then he gets the swastika and the Roman Salute. But in all seriousness, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, is this guy seriously interested in politics? Was he a leftist before this transformation, or totally indifferent?

[Sir Comradical]

He's probably not really interested in national socialism.

He probably wants to sound edgey and shocking, so he's a "nazi". You've never encountered kids who play a little command and conquer, watch "enemy at the gates", and decide they are "communists"? The site soviet-empire.com is full of such people.

Most of these kids get over it, but they should be encouraged to do so.

I was that kid aged 12. :blushing:

[dernier combat]

I was that kid aged 12. :blushing:
I was that kid at age 14. That was just two years ago. Thankfully, my "politics" are far more well-founded today.

[CommunistsUnite]

Actually, it is more edgy to be a communist. Nazis had shock value for a little bit, but the neo-Nazi clowns just made them a laughing stock. The National Socialist Movement is the real Anti-Fa in my opinion.

[hatzel]

Actually, it is more edgy to be a communist.

And why exactly does it matter? Unless you're just here to be edgy, in which case you should probably just give up now. Just go and buy some slogan t-shirt or something instead, that's plenty edgy...:rolleyes:

[PhoenixAsh]

@CU

I get what you are trying to say...but my advice...never say it like that again.

[#FF0000]

And why exactly does it matter? Unless you're just here to be edgy, in which case you should probably just give up now. Just go and buy some slogan t-shirt or something instead, that's plenty edgy...:rolleyes:

i think he's jus' sayin

Most Fascist groups in the US are hella good at playing up the centrism thing, and it works sometimes because some people are kinda dumb.

[Magón]

Because as it's already been stated, it's a lot easier to join a mindless, say a few things here, give a salute there, organization than it is with others like on the Left.

If you're only acting like a Communist, and have no actual motive for communism besides what you see on TV, Internet, etc. which isn't even real Communist thought or just playing around, then when you come across an actual Communist, you're going to get shown for your true colors which is someone who doesn't know anything about Communism.

For Fascists, Neo-Nazis, etc. it's a lot easier to say you're one of them because you're just saying flat out mindless shit that even among serious Fascists, Neo-Nazis, etc., you can get away with it, and more than likely won't get caught for not actually being one of them if you're just agreeing with them all the time.

[El Chuncho]

I have a friend (Well, Former Friend now), who recently converted to Nazism. I asked him why he would ever do that. He told me that the Swastika looked cool, and the salute was cool also. I just called him a disgusting pig, and walked away.

He's an idiot, I hope you never have to see his stupid face again!


Why is it so easy for people to go to White Nationalism in an instant just because "Sieg Heiling" looks cool? Or the Swastika looks cool?

Because they are mindless idiots, like all Neo-Nazis. And I have always thought sieg heiling looked ridiculous...my interests in ancient Indic texts and philosophy, and Old English heathenism make me have affection for the REAL swastika and not the Nazi one.


It's outrageous.

Darn tootin'!

[Sixiang]

My brother-in-law grew up in a small town and there were plenty of punk neo-nazis in his high school. He wasn't one of them and never really understood it. These kids knew absolutely nothing about Hitler or the history of Nazi Germany. They purely were appealed by the image of the swastika and so forth. It was just a cool, edgy thing to do. Honestly, it was just an excuse for them to have a group to be a part of and to get drugs.

[Lunatic Concept]

Its weird how often you used to see swastikas drawn on school desks quite often. Of course I would always black them out and draw a hammer and sickle ;)
Man how things have changed.

[RedScare]

You've never encountered kids who play a little command and conquer, watch "enemy at the gates", and decide they are "communists"? The site soviet-empire.com is full of such people.

Most of these kids get over it, but they should be encouraged to do so.
I was like that at the age of 15. :blushing:

[Rafiq]

He's probably just being a jackass.

[a rebel]

Patriotism, Nationalism, Racism, appeals to those basic instincts and desires. They don't require any internal thought, any outward action, any sympathy or kindness, only blind obedience. It makes total sense why Facism is a popular movement, and why today even in light of so much awareness of its danger, it is pursued by so many.

The simple course of action against it, is not fighting it, but fighting Capitalism itself.

You have to realize that most kids are idiots, who do things to fit in or pretend they are cool, Fascists like to spread that "zieg heil " roman salute shit around to attract angry idiots (skin heads) to do the things they aren't willing to do. If you think about it all movements with any ideas are boiled down into selling points like this. Hell, the reason I found this site is because I wanted a Che Guevara t-shirt,turns out there is a lot more to leftism than that. So I studied up, and here I am

[MarxSchmarx]

Originally Posted by CommunistsUnite http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2065411#post2065411)
Actually, it is more edgy to be a communist. And why exactly does it matter?

For a ton of reasons. First, our movement is in desperate need of young, new blood. Being perceived as edgy attracts a lot more people than being perceived as glorified stamp collectors hairsplitting over this or that Lenin quote or pensioners whining about their measly government checks. Arguably the punk music scene has done immensely more to reinvigorate anarchism than just about any other medium, and certainly a lot more than the decidedly non-edgy white professors in the American northeast. Second, cultural cohesion is important to sustain a movement. The internationale and the red flag are great and all, but why can't we be perceived as expressing our principles through the vanguard of culture in 2011 as well? The class struggle serves to teach us how to be more effective and more confident of our strengths as a class. But being "edgy" is one virtue in the global north, with its deeply entrenched bourgeois propaganda, does encourage people to take the sort of risks necessary to engage in day-to-day manifestations of the class struggle. These struggles flare up from time to time, but the other 80% of the time it is all most people can do to continue working at their jobs and where the class struggle is an abstraction. Being able to inspire people even during the humdrum moments of daily life is key to keep the flames alive.

There's also something more fundamental about it. Our movement is really about a rebirth and creating a new society. So we have to be perceived, on some level, as willing to embrace a new order, even if some of us in our personal lives might in fact be quite set in our ways. Indeed:



Young people ought to try different things. But they should try to find something in common with the majority—remember that. I wish you progress. Zhou Enlai, when asked about his opinion of American hippies.

[Agent Ducky]

It is stupid. It's just like going "Hey, my favorite color is red. Calling people 'comrade' is fun. I'm going to be a communist!"

[Chambered Word]

Maybe you should talk to him about how 'cool' it is that the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, a large number of leftists and dissidents and started a world war that killed another something-million people. Yes, it could be a phase, but how do you know? Fascism is known to succeed in attracting disenfranchised and alienated young people to use as its foot soldiers.

[Rafiq]

It is stupid. It's just like going "Hey, my favorite color is red. Calling people 'comrade' is fun. I'm going to be a communist!"


I have friends who are like that, sometimes they suggest we dress up as Stalin on spirit days, ect.

[Dimentio]

Because as it's already been stated, it's a lot easier to join a mindless, say a few things here, give a salute there, organization than it is with others like on the Left.

If you're only acting like a Communist, and have no actual motive for communism besides what you see on TV, Internet, etc. which isn't even real Communist thought or just playing around, then when you come across an actual Communist, you're going to get shown for your true colors which is someone who doesn't know anything about Communism.

For Fascists, Neo-Nazis, etc. it's a lot easier to say you're one of them because you're just saying flat out mindless shit that even among serious Fascists, Neo-Nazis, etc., you can get away with it, and more than likely won't get caught for not actually being one of them if you're just agreeing with them all the time.

Sadly... no.

In most organised Communist groupings (not by size mind you, but numbers, like all those single-digit membership parties), you get away if you appear douche-baggy, could sneer at other Communists for not being a part of your party, and do what the Party Line says.

[Maphisto86]

Totalitarianism seems to have great PR to make goose stepping morons look cool. It strikes me as being part "mob mentality". As for Nazism or similar racialist forms of fascism it is tempting for people to take part in because in doing so they are automatically viewed as "superior" to whole races or nationalities on account of what race they were born in; "the blood". Radical racist black groups like factions of the "Nation of Islam" are similar. Not only is it a religious bigotry but also bestows a sense of power of being a certain race too. You do not have to change anything about yourself or be proud of individual achievements as you are already born into a "superior" race.

[Red_Xan]

National "Socialism" helps one race or country of people get the best at the cost of enslaving anyone labeled "undesirable," and more "mentally-delicate" people are fascinated by the "culture" or "danger" of such groups.

[Manic Impressive]

Is your friend Trevor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJoa9v9tzFg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJoa9v9tzFg)

[Agent Ducky]

I have friends who are like that, sometimes they suggest we dress up as Stalin on spirit days, ect.

O_o. I had this online "Communist party" on a game forum, and that's the reason most people join me...

[Magón]

Sadly... no.

In most organised Communist groupings (not by size mind you, but numbers, like all those single-digit membership parties), you get away if you appear douche-baggy, could sneer at other Communists for not being a part of your party, and do what the Party Line says.

I think it's a lot easier to spot a real non-Communist, in person, than on the internet. I've known/met countless people over the years in person, who've said they're Communists, and yet when asking them some of the basics of whatever ideology it is, they fail to actually state what the answer is; instead giving off something else, or changing the subject.

But I understand what you're saying, and agree. But again, most of those single-digit parties are made up of fake commies, so coming across a real commie group would just make them only Communist in title, than action, etc.