Why did the NVA restore the grey uniform after the war?

[Red Future]

I'm not sure why it was reintroduced , didn't it have connotations of German Militarism ?or was it due to the fact that grey camouflage works better than olive drab ? curious

[Omsk]

The West German army (bund.) had US style uniforms,and for some time,the DDR had Soviet style uniforms,but soon enough,they needed new uniforms,and the NVA came back to the traditional style uniforms.
Here is a picture of how the uniform looked like: (to early 1970)
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=131395&sid=6b98fe7fd8705c1e5936709205d8faec

http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=131396

They also had a camo-type autumn version:
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=214128

-Border Guards uniform.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-85458-0003%2C_Berlin%2C_Mauerbau%2C_Kampfgruppen%2C_NVA% 2C_VP.jpg

The situation was rather complicated,the NVA had to be highly mobile and resistant,as it was the 'wall' that separated the East and West,and in the case of the war,it would be the first to feel the imperialist guns.
So it took a lot of influence from the Soviets,especially in the uniforms and tactics,but later on,it felt an urge to get out of the shadow,and to go back a little,so it took back the Wermacht like uniforms.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

NVA much more than the Bunderswher tended to continue the traditions of the Prussian and later German military, and as such, when it need its own uniforms, they were heavily based upon earlier German uniforms. Western Germany whole heartedly rejected anything associated with Nazi germany, even minor things such as uniforms were changed to avoid any similarity, the DDR was less stringent.

[thälmann]

im not a friend of the ddr, but thats not the truth. the bundeswehr gave a lot of their bases ,ships and so on names from famous fascists. the nva took the tradition of the antifascist resistance. and the thing with the prussian and more authoritarian nva is also more a western myth is think.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

im not a friend of the ddr, but thats not the truth. the bundeswehr gave a lot of their bases ,ships and so on names from famous fascists. the nva took the tradition of the antifascist resistance. and the thing with the prussian and more authoritarian nva is also more a western myth is think.

Then why the uniforms?

[PhoenixAsh]

anybody consider the fact that grey is easier to mix?

Most cloth is already to some extend grey and colored dyes are usually more work and require more ingredients than grey ones.

Making the color not only easier but also more cost effective.

[Rjevan]

Western Germany whole heartedly rejected anything associated with Nazi german
One of the best jokes I've heard lately. :lol:

As thälmann said, Bundeswehr bases were named after convinced nazi generals (like war criminal Eduard Dietl, a Freikorps member and old guard nazi praised by Hitler) and "respectable" Bundeswehr generals were former Wehrmacht generals. A closer look at the associates of leading politicians and persons involved in FRG politics in general as well as in the economy, police, intelligence, etc. and their notable resistance to de-nazification (which was a sham in the Western zones and only consistently carried out in the Soviet zone anyway) should also tell you that Western Germany was far from "whole heartedly rejecting" anything or anybody associated with nazism.

The idea behind the NVA uniforms was to emphasise the patriotism and "national character" of the military of the GDR and to distinguish themselves from the Bundeswehr. The latter was seen as a sellout tool of US imperialism and their uniforms were indeed based on US uniforms. So instead of presenting the NVA as an extended version of the Red Army it was decided to take up German military tradition.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

One of the best jokes I've heard lately. :lol:

As thälmann said, Bundeswehr bases were named after convinced nazi generals (like war criminal Eduard Dietl, a Freikorps member and old guard nazi praised by Hitler) and "respectable" Bundeswehr generals were former Wehrmacht generals. A closer look at the associates of leading politicians and persons involved in FRG politics in general as well as in the economy, police, intelligence, etc. and their notable resistance to de-nazification (which was a sham in the Western zones and only consistently carried out in the Soviet zone anyway) should also tell you that Western Germany was far from "whole heartedly rejecting" anything or anybody associated with nazism.

The idea behind the NVA uniforms was to emphasise the patriotism and "national character" of the military of the GDR and to distinguish themselves from the Bundeswehr. The latter was seen as a sellout tool of US imperialism and their uniforms were indeed based on US uniforms. So instead of presenting the NVA as an extended version of the Red Army it was decided to take up German military tradition.

^ thats more what I ment, I just didn't word it well.

[ComradeOm]

The idea behind the NVA uniforms was to emphasise the patriotism and "national character" of the military of the GDR and to distinguish themselves from the Bundeswehr. The latter was seen as a sellout tool of US imperialism and their uniforms were indeed based on US uniforms. So instead of presenting the NVA as an extended version of the Red Army it was decided to take up German military tradition.And what was this "German military tradition"?

[a rebel]

anybody consider the fact that grey is easier to mix?

Most cloth is already to some extend grey and colored dyes are usually more work and require more ingredients than grey ones.

Making the color not only easier but also more cost effective.

this guy has the right idea, you are thinking too much into it

[DDR]

And what was this "German military tradition"?

I guess Clausewitz-prusian military style and tactics.

[Omsk]

The Bundeswehr used a lot of US equipment,while the NVA used a lot of Soviet equipment,but they kept their own,traditional design of uniforms,the steel-helm was not a nazi product,sure,it was negatively popularized by the Wermacht,but the German army used it both in WW1 and in the post WW1 period.
For instance,the Bund used:

Tanks
M 41 "Walker Bulldog" from 1956-1960
M 47 "PattonI" from 1956-1960
M 48 "Patton II" until 1961

Artillery (selfp)
M 7 "Priest" from 1956-1957
M 52 from 1957-mid 60s
M 44 from 1958-???
M 55 from 1958-1964
M 109G since 1963
M 119 since 1964

They were funded by the imperialists to the measures of extreme,and their tactic were usually of aggressive nature.

The NVA also had a number of female officers in its ranks,the uniform design is also unique:
http://femalesoldiers.greyfalcon.us/picturesb/dd2.jpg

And another interesting thing:the NVA airforce website!;)

http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=de|en&u=http://home.snafu.de/veith/

[Red Future]

The Bundeswehr used a lot of US equipment,while the NVA used a lot of Soviet equipment,but they kept their own,traditional design of uniforms,the steel-helm was not a nazi product,sure,it was negatively popularized by the Wermacht,but the German army used it both in WW1 and in the post WW1 period.
For instance,the Bund used:

Tanks
M 41 "Walker Bulldog" from 1956-1960
M 47 "PattonI" from 1956-1960
M 48 "Patton II" until 1961

Artillery (selfp)
M 7 "Priest" from 1956-1957
M 52 from 1957-mid 60s
M 44 from 1958-???
M 55 from 1958-1964
M 109G since 1963
M 119 since 1964

They were funded by the imperialists to the measures of extreme,and their tactic were usually of aggressive nature.

The NVA also had a number of female officers in its ranks,the uniform design is also unique:
http://femalesoldiers.greyfalcon.us/picturesb/dd2.jpg

And another interesting thing:the NVA airforce website!;)

http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=de|en&u=http://home.snafu.de/veith/ (http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://home.snafu.de/veith/)

Very much doubt the Bundeswehr had female officers , the NVA was better in sexual equality in the military clearly

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

And what was this "German military tradition"?

The military tradition going back to Prussia, probably. The Prussian military leaders who fought Napoleon were considered national heroes in East Germany, for instance -- just as Kutuzov and Suvorov -- the Russian military leaders of the Napoleonic Wars, and Crimean War Admiral Pavel Nakhimov were considered national heroes in in the (Stalin-era and post-Stalin) Soviet Union.

(It's certainly no coincidence that East Germany was actually referred to as "Das sozialistische Vaterland" - "the Socialist Fatherland.")

The German army had adopted grey uniforms long before the Third Reich, so this thread is a bit silly, unless somebody wants to actually argue that the uniform color was permanently corrupted by the Nazi regime.

The Eastern Bloc regimes that were established in Eastern Europe always combined socialist ideology with an appeal to national traditions, since that was seen as a way of promoting patriotism and strengthening the state.

East Germany always condemned the Nazi period and did a far more thorough job of de-Nazifying itself than West Germany did during the early Cold War. But the attempts to appeal to German tradition were present, just as they were elsewhere, and certainly went beyond the trivial fact of restoring the classic grey uniform (which had a history going back to imperial Germany).

[Omsk]

Very much doubt the Bundeswehr had female officers , the NVA was better in sexual equality in the military clearly

You are right,starting in 1975, women were permitted to serve only in medical units or musical bands.Only in 2001 did 244 (or less) female officers join the Bundeswehr.
A bigger problem was the horrible treatment of the former NVA comrades and officer who merged with the Bundeswehr,they got no pension!Because they were treated as foreigners!And their western 'friends' treated them as lower caste soldiers.

*Here is a bit more information on the NVA unfiorms:

They were split into several groups:


Field Service Uniform (Felddienstuniform) - The summer field uniform for both officers and enlisted consisted of a jacket and trousers in a dark-brown (later a forest green) raindrop camouflage pattern on a stone-gray background; a field cap, service cap, or steel helmet; high black boots; and a leather belt with vertical web shoulder suspenders. In winter, a quilted stone gray padded suit without a camouflage pattern was worn over the service uniform. Later winter uniforms were also of the same camouflage pattern as the summer variant. The winter uniform also included a fur pile cap or a steel helmet, boots, knitted gray gloves, belt, and suspenders.
Service Uniform (Dienstuniform) - The summer service uniform for officers was a bloused jacket worn without a shirt, trousers, and a visored service cap. The winter service uniform featured a jacket with four large buttoned-down patch pockets, a black waist belt, the service cap, breeches, shirt, tie, and pants belt; high boots were reserved for officers and NCOs. A long, heavy, belted greatcoat was also part of the winter uniform.

14.08.1961, Erection of the Berlin Wall. GDR borderguards and members of a Combat Group of the Working Class at the border of the Berlin sector.
Semi-Dress/Walking-Out Uniform (Ausgangsuniform) - With a few details, the semi-dress uniform was the same for all ranks and was worn for walking-out purposes (i.e. off-duty and off-post). It consisted of a single-breasted tunic without belt, a silver-gray shirt with dark-gray tie, the service cap, long trousers, and black low-quarter shoes. Officers also wore the tunic with a white shirt. During periods of warm weather, there was the option of omitting the tunic, and furthermore omitting the tie. For a time, a double-breasted jacket was optional for officers and warrant officers.

Another GDR stamp celebrating 25 years of the NVA.
Parade Uniform (Paradeuniform) - The parade uniform for officers was the semi-dress/walking-out tunic with all authorized orders, awards and decorations attached, breeches and riding boots, steel helmet, white shirt, dark-gray necktie, and a ceremonial dagger worn on the left side and fastened to a silver-gray parade belt. Officers in guards of honor carried sabers. In winter, a greatcoat, scarf, and gloves were worn.
Work Uniform (Arbeitsuniform) - Seasonal considerations and weather governed the kind of work uniforms worn. Generally, reconditioned articles of service uniforms (field, semi-dress, and padded winter uniforms) were dyed black and issued for all types of fatigue and maintenance details. Coveralls are also used by the lower ranks, especially armor and air force personnel. Officers in technical branches supervising fatigue details wore a laboratory-style smock.

Stasi officers in the White dress uniform.
Other Uniforms — High-ranking officers occasionally wore white uniforms (or white jackets), and staff officers were issued distinctive staff service uniforms. Women wore uniforms consisting of jackets, skirts or slacks, blouses, caps, boots or pumps, and other appropriate items according to season and occasion. Personnel such as paratroopers, motorcyclists, and tank troops wore additional items with their uniforms identifying them as such.

[ComradeOm]

The military tradition going back to Prussia, probablyWhich is very much the point of the implied criticism above. Harking back to Prussian militarism and associated traditions is not particularly admirable. Nor indeed can these be considered to be "national traditions" given that they were once the preserve of a highly-militarised landowning elite and certainly not the wider population. If the FDR was able to consign these vestiges of the Junkers to the dustbin of history then there is no reason why the DDR should/could not have followed suit and distanced itself from such a reactionary heritage

(Incidentally, the exact same charge can be levelled at the USSR. The resuscitation of Tsarist military traditions - most obviously the ranks and uniforms - can hardly be hailed as a revival of a "national tradition". Not when the destruction of this 'tradition' was so joyfully welcomed in 1917)


...which had a history going back to imperial GermanyIndeed, that bastion of progress and enlightenment. A worthy predecessor for the DDR

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

Which is very much the point of the implied criticism above. Harking back to Prussian militarism and associated traditions is not particularly admirable. Nor indeed can these be considered to be "national traditions" given that they were once the preserve of a highly-militarised landowning elite and certainly not the wider population. If the FDR was able to consign these vestiges of the Junkers to the dustbin of history then there is no reason why the DDR should/could not have followed suit and distanced itself from such a reactionary heritage

(Incidentally, the exact same charge can be levelled at the USSR. The resuscitation of Tsarist military traditions - most obviously the ranks and uniforms - can hardly be hailed as a revival of a "national tradition". Not when the destruction of this 'tradition' was so joyfully welcomed in 1917)

Indeed, that bastion of progress and enlightenment. A worthy predecessor for the DDR

Yes, well that's my point. The Eastern Bloc liked to play around with nationalism, mostly in subtle ways, but at times far more openly (as in Stalin's last years in the USSR). That they so often did it shows another way in which they differed from the early Bolsheviks.

As for America being "able to consign these vestiges of the Junkers," that's far from the case. The United States made use of former Nazis and Wehrmacht generals in the West German army and intelligence more often than not, and Truman launched a little thing called "Operation Paperclip."

Even a bunch of Nazi doctors who had experimented on people in the concentration camps (whose crimes were known about) were used by the Allies and went on to have academic careers in West Germany.

[Omsk]

Here is a nice joke to add op on this little discussion: (Nazis in post-war Germany)

A USSR and a US politician are talking:

US politician: Haha,you silly red,if your commie friends in East Germany would shine their party badges too much,the badges would melt away,as their quality is horrible like everything else in the east!

USSR politician:Well,if your West German friends would shine their party badges,the NSDAP logos would emerge from the filth!