The "white race"

[Che a chara]

Following on from the Pee Farty (http://www.revleft.com/vb/tea-party-nation-t152291/index.html?t=152291) discussion in the main politics section, what is there to be gained from "white" preservation other than bigotry, racism, hostility, division, discrimination, privilege, plunder and exploitation ?

I'm white and a proud "race traitor". I don't give a fuck about our so called demise. our race, the human race, is not in danger of becoming extinct through interrelations, but through capitalist and imperialist domination and exploitation of our planet and it's resources. Why do racists not challenge or discuss this fact ?

The US census documented that one in six (or four, not too sure which) US children are of Hispanic origin. I was watching a Fox News segment last week and commentator Geraldo Rivera was very supportive (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/26/geraldo-rivera-new-generation-hispanic-immigrants-transform-america-just-like/) of these numbers saying it is part of the cycle of the great immigrant American nation, on which it was founded.

does religious disbelief in evolution play a part in the tea party's xenophobia or is it just blind hatred ?

Brown, pinky, whatever, it is human evolution and this is undisputed fact, as life has proven and we evidenced.

[RGacky3]

Why is this anything anyone needs to talk about?

[Che a chara]

Why is this anything anyone needs to talk about?

seeing as i'm restricted and unable to reply to the above mentioned thread, i'd thought i'd elaborate in my thoughts .....

[#FF0000]

what I think is funny is the amount of race-mixing that lead to the existence of what we call white people today. all the franks and gauls and germaic tribes and celts and romans and whoever else, you know

[graymouser]

what I think is funny is the amount of race-mixing that lead to the existence of what we call white people today. all the franks and gauls and germaic tribes and celts and romans and whoever else, you know
Not to mention that "white" is an expanding category. For myself as an example, being half Italian, part German and part Irish, as well as British (incl. England, Scotland and Wales), my ancestors went from "ethnic" to "white" in phases over time. David Roediger has been doing some interesting writing on this, including his recent book Working toward Whiteness about how different "ethnic" groups went into being a part of a fictional, and relatively recent, category of "white."

[Viet Minh]

I find genetic studies very interesting, and they pretty much dispel all myths of race and ethnicity. 'Whiteness' as I understand it is the result of living in a colder climate, so by the logic of racist ideologies Inuit people are superior to 'the white race' ( :rolleyes: ) but I never got an answer to that on moronfront.

[Viet Minh]

Following on from the Pee Farty (http://www.revleft.com/vb/tea-party-nation-t152291/index.html?t=152291) discussion in the main politics section, what is there to be gained from "white" preservation other than bigotry, racism, hostility, division, discrimination, privilege, plunder and exploitation ?

I'm white and a proud "race traitor". I don't give a fuck about our so called demise. our race, the human race, is not in danger of becoming extinct through interrelations, but through capitalist and imperialist domination and exploitation of our planet and it's resources. Why do racists not challenge or discuss this fact ?

The US census documented that one in six (or four, not too sure which) US children are of Hispanic origin. I was watching a Fox News segment last week and commentator Geraldo Rivera was very supportive (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/26/geraldo-rivera-new-generation-hispanic-immigrants-transform-america-just-like/) of these numbers saying it is part of the cycle of the great immigrant American nation, on which it was founded.

does religious disbelief in evolution play a part in the tea party's xenophobia or is it just blind hatred ?

Brown, pinky, whatever, it is human evolution and this is undisputed fact, as life has proven and we evidenced.

Also how did you get restricted?!? You're the leftest person ever!! :huh: :laugh:

[Manic Impressive]

The white race is not dying out it's scare mongering bullshit. Plenty of white people have mixed ancestry just as pretty much every ethnic group does. The mass movements of people may have accelerated the mixing a bit but that's no reason to think that the human race will become one generic colour. I've heard this bull shit a thousand times before and it only serves to stir up racial hatred.
Even if there were no white people there would still be racial privilege. For instance in slavery where the mixed race slaves were given privilege over the darker slaves. Or take my friend from Zimbabwe she has white grandfathers and was treated badly in Zimbabwe because of her mixed race status.

Oh and I think anyone who advocates or celebrates the demise of any race should be banned.

[Viet Minh]

The white race is not dying out it's scare mongering bullshit. Plenty of white people have mixed ancestry just as pretty much every ethnic group does. The mass movements of people may have accelerated the mixing a bit but that's no reason to think that the human race will become one generic colour. I've heard this bull shit a thousand times before and it only serves to stir up racial hatred.
Even if there were no white people there would still be racial privilege. For instance in slavery where the mixed race slaves were given privilege over the darker slaves. Or take my friend from Zimbabwe she has white grandfathers and was treated badly in Zimbabwe because of her mixed race status.

Oh and I think anyone who advocates or celebrates the demise of any race should be banned.

He wasn't advocating their demise as such, its just that inevitably as mankind integrates and globalises race will become increasingly meaningless and people will mix freely. I personally think if there eventually was a single mixed race it would be a positive. Racists use the term 'mongrel' but in terms of canines at least its pure breeds that suffer from health defects.

[RGacky3]

I personally think if there eventually was a single mixed race it would be a positive. Racists use the term 'mongrel' but in terms of canines at least its pure breeds that suffer from health defects.

Why the hell would it be positive OR negative ....

[Viet Minh]

Why the hell would it be positive OR negative ....

Because inbreeding, tribalism, racism = baaad

[Che a chara]

I don't think i said anything that anyone on the left should find offensive. my main gripe was with the Tea Party and my post was directed at white supremacists in general. I would have very little sympathy for their demise, which more than likely will come with human evolution, rather than the Darwinistic "might is right" stance that such Aryans advocate.


Also how did you get restricted?!? You're the leftest person ever!! :huh: :laugh:

Via my previous ill-judged position on abortion. I shall be appealing my unwarranted restriction.....

[RGacky3]

Because inbreeding, tribalism, racism = baaad

Wait .... What? how does that answer why everyone becoming one race some how is positive or negative, its stupid, it should'nt matter.

[Manic Impressive]

He wasn't advocating their demise as such, its just that inevitably as mankind integrates and globalises race will become increasingly meaningless and people will mix freely. I personally think if there eventually was a single mixed race it would be a positive. Racists use the term 'mongrel' but in terms of canines at least its pure breeds that suffer from health defects.
No one has quite said it yet but some people in the other thread have come pretty close.
Thing is you don't tackle racism by eliminating a race even if it is socially privileged. Racism ends when we end the social conditions which enforce it.

Although there is evidence that points to children of mixed race parents, or rather from two gene pools which have not been mixed result in healthier children. This is due to the carrying of two different types of one particular gene these children are called heterozygous as opposed to people who carry two identical forms of a particular gene who are homozygous. This does not mean that eliminating homozygous people would be a good thing, as two homozygous people carrying different genes would pass on a more dominant variety of genes to their children than two highly heterozygous parents.

From the evidence I've seen the theory that one race would absorb another would not occur naturally and will only occur through genetic or social engineering. So the right wing unscientific view that one set of genes that make up a race will naturally become dominant is as I said scaremongering. It's propaganda used to whip up racist feelings and from what I've seen has been disproved.

[Viet Minh]

Wait .... What? how does that answer why everyone becoming one race some how is positive or negative, its stupid, it should'nt matter.

It shouldn't but in my scepticism I feel that racism in some form will be around for a long time, if there was one race we'd find some other irrelevant nonsense to divide ourselves by, but it would be one less issue people have to face.


No one has quite said it yet but some people in the other thread have come pretty close.
Thing is you don't tackle racism by eliminating a race even if it is socially privileged. Racism ends when we end the social conditions which enforce it.

Although there is evidence that points to children of mixed race parents, or rather from two gene pools which have not been mixed result in healthier children. This is due to the carrying of two different types of one particular gene these children are called heterozygous as opposed to people who carry two identical forms of a particular gene who are homozygous. This does not mean that eliminating homozygous people would be a good thing, as two homozygous people carrying different genes would pass on a more dominant variety of genes to their children than two highly heterozygous parents.

From the evidence I've seen the theory that one race would absorb another would not occur naturally and will only occur through genetic or social engineering. So the right wing unscientific view that one set of genes that make up a race will naturally become dominant is as I said scaremongering. It's propaganda used to whip up racist feelings and from what I've seen has been disproved.

It fits nicely in the bullshit bin with 'England will be Islamic in 10 years' and the double whammy 'they're taking our jobs' / 'they're only here for benefits' :lol: make up your minds!

[ComradeMan]

There is only one fucking race.

The human race.

Deal with it.

[Bud Struggle]

There is only one fucking race.

The human race.

Deal with it.

Very true. And there's only the particulars no generalities. People get to gether and fall in love--and the nationalities and races just make for mor interesting foods and traditions on holidays.

You have to take what's good about such things and leave the rest.

[Isolationist]

Why do people get Restricted here? lmfao

[Revolution starts with U]

You'll find out soon enough :laugh::laugh::laugh:
:cool:

[Summerspeaker]

The white race as a club of privilege needs to die. Constructing whiteness as a neutral identity to be included into the multicultural mosaic tacitly support white supremacy.

[Revolution starts with U]

Whoa whoa... I may be reading that wrong, but it smells of "kill whitey." I think there are a myriad of reasons to oppose white supremacy (or any supremacy), and race in general for that matter. But not whiteness in and of itself.
Forgive me if I understood that wrong :lol:

[Lt. Ferret]

fuck that garbage. white people are not inherently anything, neither are hispanics, blacks, asians, indians, or any other group. race is a social construct ,yes, but that only means that what youre born as is inherently useless as quantifying anything else. im mostly white with some moorish in me, doesnt effect my day to day routine and certainly isnt the basis for either stealing from me or rewarding me with anything.

[Summerspeaker]

By whiteness I mean the social construct rather than physical characteristic. It's a club of privilege that serves no good purpose. Though discrimination based on appearance absolutely matters, there's considerable overlap between white folks and people of color literal skin color.

[Lt. Ferret]

iv seen some hella poor white people. i dont know what privilige not paying your bills is enjoying.

[#FF0000]

iv seen some hella poor white people. i dont know what privilige not paying your bills is enjoying.

poor black people are worse off than poor white people. poor white people get more out of America's pathetic social safety net, and poor white students do better in school, and have better schools than poor black kids.

honestly the difference might be kinda minor in the long run (not when you look at the incarceration rates, of course) but to say that being white doesn't give you something of a leg up in American society is pretty silly.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Why is it called 'white privilege'? Is it a privilege to be treated fairly by the educational or judicial system? Is it a privilege to not face employee discrimination? These don't sound like privileges, but basic rights (sorry for the liberal rhetoric, but I couldn't think of a better term). It's not that white people are given a special white privilege, instead it's that every other "race" is denied these rights.

[#FF0000]

Why is it called 'white privilege'? Is it a privilege to be treated fairly by the educational or judicial system? Is it a privilege to not face employee discrimination? These don't sound like privileges, but basic rights (sorry for the liberal rhetoric, but I couldn't think of a better term). It's not that white people are given a special white privilege, instead it's that every other "race" is denied these rights.

because sociologists like to use the most inflammatory language possible to explain things that most people would acknowledge as true if they were communicated just slightly differently.

[Revolution starts with U]

Why is it called 'white privilege'? Is it a privilege to be treated fairly by the educational or judicial system? Is it a privilege to not face employee discrimination? These don't sound like privileges, but basic rights (sorry for the liberal rhetoric, but I couldn't think of a better term). It's not that white people are given a special white privilege, instead it's that every other "race" is denied these rights.

Hence, white privelage....
I can't fathom how you don't see that.

[Amphictyonis]

Me= unrepentant race trader/mixer.

[RGacky3]

It shouldn't but in my scepticism I feel that racism in some form will be around for a long time, if there was one race we'd find some other irrelevant nonsense to divide ourselves by, but it would be one less issue people have to face.

The fact that people have differnet skin tones does'nt cause racism, if everyone was the same skin weak minded pathetic people would still try and find something else to feel superior about and try and put people down.


Me= unrepentant race trader/mixer.

Calling yourself a race traiter is stupid, its called being not-racist i.e. a normal human.

[Roman_von_Ungern]

Last time I checked very few considered the term "white" a race. At least if you look at those hobby anthropologist you see in the far right.

[ComradeMan]

Me= unrepentant race trader/mixer.


race TRADER? - I thought slavery was illegal!!!
;)

[Nehru]

The fact that people have differnet skin tones does'nt cause racism, if everyone was the same skin weak minded pathetic people would still try and find something else to feel superior about and try and put people down.

True, but at least we would have removed one problem. And it's a problem that has plagued us for centuries.


Calling yourself a race traiter is stupid, its called being not-racist i.e. a normal human.

Good point.

[RGacky3]

True, but at least we would have removed one problem. And it's a problem that has plagued us for centuries.


No it would'nt, if your gonna go about it that way your gonna have to go against genetics and evolutoin. Racism is not caused by people looking differently.

[Lt. Ferret]

poor black people are worse off than poor white people. poor white people get more out of America's pathetic social safety net, and poor white students do better in school, and have better schools than poor black kids.

honestly the difference might be kinda minor in the long run (not when you look at the incarceration rates, of course) but to say that being white doesn't give you something of a leg up in American society is pretty silly.


iv been to appalachia, where the poor whites live. iv lived in columbus georgia, where the poor blacks live, and iv spent a lot of time in south texas and im currently in southern california, where the poor latinos live. nobody is particular living any better tahn anyone else, and the middle class has a high rate of contempt for all of these groups. i grew up as a poor white, and i wasnt necessarily doing better or worse than the rest of the neighborhood.

[#FF0000]

iv been to appalachia, where the poor whites live. iv lived in columbus georgia, where the poor blacks live, and iv spent a lot of time in south texas and im currently in southern california, where the poor latinos live. nobody is particular living any better tahn anyone else, and the middle class has a high rate of contempt for all of these groups. i grew up as a poor white, and i wasnt necessarily doing better or worse than the rest of the neighborhood.

I don't know, man. Take it up with all of the studies ever done in the past 20 years that say you're wrong.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that poor blacks and whites, in terms of social services, get the same quality service (though in reality, they do not). What, then about education opportunities? Schools nowadays are the most segregated they've been since Jim Crow, and that's not an exaggeration. I'm not about to say that country-ass schools in the boondocks of ol' mississip can't be really, really terrible. They might be. Probably are. But they just aren't as bad as broke, inner-city schools.

[RGacky3]

Many shools are funded by property taxes .... soooo, also it would make sense that inner city schools are worse considering the population density.

[#FF0000]

Many shools are funded by property taxes .... soooo, also it would make sense that inner city schools are worse considering the population density.

up until the 70s, black people in a neighborhood hurt the value of properties in that neighborhood (that was literally something they took into account, and yes it was that direct and blatant).

they haven't done a whole lot to fix that since that was made illegal.

[RGacky3]

they haven't done a whole lot to fix that since that was made illegal.

Its about as illigal as union busting :P

[Lt. Ferret]

I don't know, man. Take it up with all of the studies ever done in the past 20 years that say you're wrong.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that poor blacks and whites, in terms of social services, get the same quality service (though in reality, they do not). What, then about education opportunities? Schools nowadays are the most segregated they've been since Jim Crow, and that's not an exaggeration. I'm not about to say that country-ass schools in the boondocks of ol' mississip can't be really, really terrible. They might be. Probably are. But they just aren't as bad as broke, inner-city schools.


iv seen the studies, i have a minor in sociology. if all you have are studies, its because you havent seen or done anything for personal experiences. you guys seem pretty eager to brush off anecdotes or personal experiences. if nothing else, the tendency to embrace ecological fallacies around here is becoming epidemic.


and yes, rural areas are way worse than the inner cities. way, way, way fucking worse.

[#FF0000]

and yes, rural areas are way worse than the inner cities. way, way, way fucking worse.

Yeah thinking of it now you might be right. I don't think this means, though, that being black in America is a disadvantage.

[a rebel]

Racism is for ignorant, scared, dipshits who need someone to blame for their own poverty, when its really their inferiority that put them there. As for the
"white race", the idiot white people who are shouting "white power!" at Latins, blacks, and Jews, also live in a trailer park. the "white" version of a ghetto. They think they live their not because they are degenerate people, but because "Immigrants took our jobs",. When all it would take is hard work they aren't willing to put in to get them some place better.

[Lt. Ferret]

Yeah thinking of it now you might be right. I don't think this means, though, that being black in America is a disadvantage.


i think that in some areas, being black has its disadvantages. i also think in some areas being white has its disadvantages, or advantages, same with being latino or asian or middle eastern.

what i have noticed lately, and everyone does it, i do it, is that same one group in one area has a huge marked advantage, it doesnt necessarily bleed over into other regions even if there are similar groups there.

like, say theres a bunch of rich white people in connecticut that are totally dominating the economic system in the area, that white privilege doesnt really bleed over to the coal miner whites in west virginia, or fishermen in alaska, or even the guy that owns a paint store in idaho.

being black in the south has areas where yeah, its wretched and terrible and being black means you are targeted, but that isnt the same everywhere. oppression and privilege arent as uniformly spread out as we'd all like to think.

[Revolution starts with U]

iv seen the studies, i have a minor in sociology. if all you have are studies, its because you havent seen or done anything for personal experiences. you guys seem pretty eager to brush off anecdotes or personal experiences. if nothing else, the tendency to embrace ecological fallacies around here is becoming epidemic.


and yes, rural areas are way worse than the inner cities. way, way, way fucking worse.
To your first point; because anecdotes and personal experiences are inherently subjective, arbitrary, and bias. If you have a "minor" in sociology you should know this. Nobody gives a shit about your personal anecdote... because you just may be full of shit!
To your second point; no. You're fucking crazy. And that's why your first point is bullshit as well. No, any rural area in america isn't half as bad as Youngstown-Warren, Ohio, or Detroit.

You do realize you just said your personal feelings are more valid than the scientific method? What a bufoon.


i think that in some areas, being black has its disadvantages. i also think in some areas being white has its disadvantages, or advantages, same with being latino or asian or middle eastern.

what i have noticed lately, and everyone does it, i do it, is that same one group in one area has a huge marked advantage, it doesnt necessarily bleed over into other regions even if there are similar groups there.

like, say theres a bunch of rich white people in connecticut that are totally dominating the economic system in the area, that white privilege doesnt really bleed over to the coal miner whites in west virginia, or fishermen in alaska, or even the guy that owns a paint store in idaho.

being black in the south has areas where yeah, its wretched and terrible and being black means you are targeted, but that isnt the same everywhere. oppression and privilege arent as uniformly spread out as we'd all like to think.

There is truth to this. Poorism is far more prevalent than racism. But racism makes certain people poor, which just perpetuates the poorism.

[Revolution starts with U]

Yeah thinking of it now you might be right. I don't think this means, though, that being black in America is a disadvantage.

How? Thinking of what? Are you really going to tell me being poor in a rundown shack in the middle of nowhere is worse than being poor in a rundown shack in the middle of everywhere, where you may just get shot for the fuck of it any day?!

Why would you even for a second think that was a valid description of reality?!

[El Chuncho]

Racism is merely a capitalist distraction to keep men from uniting with and freeing his brothers. ''Races'' do not exist, hence the fact that people of all the so called ''races'' can donate blood to each other. You can also have groups that look very different to each other, but are closer related. For instance, Japanese speak a language which is in the macro-family Eurasiatic (via Japonic, then macro-Altaic), which means they are more related, ethno-linguistically, to the French than they are to the Chinese, who are Dene-Caucasian. However, Eurasiatic and Dene-Caucasian are also related to each other, via Borean. Of course, all languages are related because of mankind is!

[Manic Impressive]

Racism is for ignorant, scared, dipshits who need someone to blame for their own poverty, when its really their inferiority that put them there.
ORLY? so you think that people who are poor are inferior? surely you mean they should be blaming capitalism.


As for the
"white race", the idiot white people who are shouting "white power!" at Latins, blacks, and Jews, also live in a trailer park. the "white" version of a ghetto. They think they live their not because they are degenerate people, but because "Immigrants took our jobs",. When all it would take is hard work they aren't willing to put in to get them some place better.
ORLY? well looks like you're posting in the right section of the forum.

[#FF0000]

How? Thinking of what? Are you really going to tell me being poor in a rundown shack in the middle of nowhere is worse than being poor in a rundown shack in the middle of everywhere, where you may just get shot for the fuck of it any day?!

Why would you even for a second think that was a valid description of reality?!

And then there is this

I seriously can't think of a bad situation one could find oneself in in America that would not be made worse by also being black.

I don't know how to communicate this idea to some people. White privilege doesn't mean that white people can't be poor or have shitty lives or even be worse off than some other people who are not white.


iv seen the studies, i have a minor in sociology. if all you have are studies, its because you havent seen or done anything for personal experiences. you guys seem pretty eager to brush off anecdotes or personal experiences. if nothing else, the tendency to embrace ecological fallacies around here is becoming epidemic.

because personal anecdotes are kind of worthless when you're talking about social problems, unless you're talking about an aggregate of individual experiences.

Personally I've seen a lot of things that back up the "white privilege" thing. I went to the poor "black" school in my district. It got less funding, and tested only slightly lower than the more well off (relatively well off) "white" school, but that school is the one that had more problems with guns, drugs, etc. etc. However, which school had the reputation? Mine. The black school.

And then there's all the instances of black kids being expelled or put into juvie for fighting or for accidentally bringing a woodcarving knife to school (I live in the fucking woods) getting expelled on the basis of "zero tolerance", yet the same standards were blatantly ignored for white kids.

[#FF0000]

Racism is for ignorant, scared, dipshits who need someone to blame for their own poverty, when its really their inferiority that put them there. As for the
"white race", the idiot white people who are shouting "white power!" at Latins, blacks, and Jews, also live in a trailer park. the "white" version of a ghetto. They think they live their not because they are degenerate people, but because "Immigrants took our jobs",. When all it would take is hard work they aren't willing to put in to get them some place better.

you are stupid please stop posting

[Viet Minh]

Racism is for ignorant, scared, dipshits who need someone to blame for their own poverty, when its really their inferiority that put them there. As for the
"white race", the idiot white people who are shouting "white power!" at Latins, blacks, and Jews, also live in a trailer park. the "white" version of a ghetto. They think they live their not because they are degenerate people, but because "Immigrants took our jobs",. When all it would take is hard work they aren't willing to put in to get them some place better.

Nobody is to blame but the capitalist elite who hold ALL the power and therefore ALL the responsibility.

[Manic Impressive]

I thought admins had to approve the first 10 posts these days?

[Lt. Ferret]

hey, im not saying that personal experiences are more valid than data, but i would consider using data to show that one group is worse off than another, that one is 8% poorer than another, or something to that effect, well relying too heavily on that is definitely a sign of privilege. didnt have to go get your hands dirty. :bored:

[Viet Minh]

Whether or not black people are poorer is irrelevant, because we are fighting against class hierarchy, racial divisions will largely dissapear when we defeat capitalism, and not before.

[#FF0000]

Whether or not black people are poorer is irrelevant, because we are fighting against class hierarchy, racial divisions will largely dissapear when we defeat capitalism, and not before.

I wouldn't say "when". Maybe "after".

[Lt. Ferret]

Whether or not black people are poorer is irrelevant, because we are fighting against class hierarchy, racial divisions will largely dissapear when we defeat capitalism, and not before.


this is mainly my opinion, i dont care much about promoting any particular ethnic group or anything.

[masty]

Whether or not black people are poorer is irrelevant, because we are fighting against class hierarchy, racial divisions will largely dissapear when we defeat capitalism, and not before.
racial divisions are not based in anything biological and immutable, but then again capitalism isn't either, and nobody goes around saying that, given the success of some other struggle, class divisions will wither on the vine. but that seems to be the weird way we think about race. in fact race is as real as class because race in many contexts is the same goddamn thing (see: the united states) and erasing racial divisions is going to involve, just like erasing class divisions, hard struggle and not bullshit handwaving from pseudo-leftists. any serious class struggle project in the US (and increasingly elsewhere) has to involve vigorous anti-racist work and persons of color taking control of their shit. that's how capitalism has built itself (sakai's phrase is "color-coding its classes") so that's how it will be torn down.

[Viet Minh]

racial divisions are not based in anything biological and immutable, but then again capitalism isn't either, and nobody goes around saying that, given the success of some other struggle, class divisions will wither on the vine. but that seems to be the weird way we think about race. in fact race is as real as class because race in many contexts is the same goddamn thing (see: the united states) and erasing racial divisions is going to involve, just like erasing class divisions, hard struggle and not bullshit handwaving from pseudo-leftists. any serious class struggle project in the US (and increasingly elsewhere) has to involve vigorous anti-racist work and persons of color taking control of their shit. that's how capitalism has built itself (sakai's phrase is "color-coding its classes") so that's how it will be torn down.

But its impossible to defeat racism within a capitalist society because the major contributing factors remain: competition for scarce resources (money, food) greed, inhumanity, 'survival of the fittest' attitude, even human relationships are characterised by aggression and dominance. I'm not in any way saying the fight against racism is pointless, far from its as important as class, gender, sexual and social equality. But just be aware that we cannot eradicate racism entirely as long as capitalism remains.

[GallowsBird]

In a way the "white race" is neither positive or negative... it doesn't exist. The idea of races are entirely a social construct and have no basis in fact. Some "white" are more closely related to some "yellow" groups than other white groups and look at Africa, Ethiopians and Hausa are Afro-Asiatic for instance and thus closer to Arabs and Semites than to other "black" people. Variations in skin colour are purely the cause of environmental factors (albeit passed down in the short time via the phenotype of one's closer ancestors) and do not constitute separate races.

[masty]

In a way the "white race" is neither positive or negative... it doesn't exist. The idea of races are entirely a social construct and have no basis in fact. Some "white" are more closely related to some "yellow" groups than other white groups and look at Africa, Ethiopians and Hausa are Afro-Asiatic for instance and thus closer to Arabs and Semites than to other "black" people. Variations in skin colour are purely the cause of environmental factors (albeit passed down in the short time via the phenotype of one's closer ancestors) and do not constitute separate races.
true but completely meaningless. another great sakai quote (there are so many) pertaining to this white idea of the non-existence of races is something like 'race is as real as a tank division running over you- after all, tank divisions are also socially constructed!' race in our time is obviously much more than skin color or 'ancestry' in the strict sense. it has a very clear social role under capitalism and even though its material base is superficial its practical effects are very real. it definitely exists.

[GallowsBird]

true but completely meaningless. another great sakai quote (there are so many) pertaining to this white idea of the non-existence of races is something like 'race is as real as a tank division running over you- after all, tank divisions are also socially constructed!' race in our time is obviously much more than skin color or 'ancestry' in the strict sense. it has a very clear social role under capitalism and even though its material base is superficial its practical effects are very real. it definitely exists.

You may have a point but by that definition then the Easter Bunny exists...:p

Although I guess it does as a concept... albeit not a reality. The "white race" likewise is a concept.

[El Chuncho]

The white race? READY...SET...GO!

[AR15Guy]

Racism is for ignorant, scared, dipshits who need someone to blame for their own poverty, when its really their inferiority that put them there. As for the
"white race", the idiot white people who are shouting "white power!" at Latins, blacks, and Jews, also live in a trailer park. the "white" version of a ghetto. They think they live their not because they are degenerate people, but because "Immigrants took our jobs",. When all it would take is hard work they aren't willing to put in to get them some place better.

I agree with you.

Likewise a lot of racist non-whites blame white people and white privilege for their own poverty. Their poor choices have put them in the ghetto. They think it's all YT's fault and that whitey took everything away from them. A good future depends on the individual and it does take hard work. There are poor people in every race/city or whatever.

[AR15Guy]

In a way the "white race" is neither positive or negative... it doesn't exist. The idea of races are entirely a social construct and have no basis in fact. Some "white" are more closely related to some "yellow" groups than other white groups and look at Africa, Ethiopians and Hausa are Afro-Asiatic for instance and thus closer to Arabs and Semites than to other "black" people. Variations in skin colour are purely the cause of environmental factors (albeit passed down in the short time via the phenotype of one's closer ancestors) and do not constitute separate races.

You say that Race doesn't exist yet you talk about all these different races... lol

There are many other physical characteristics other than skin color that set apart all these non existing different races but it just so happens that people associate skin color because its the most obvious difference.

What about dog breeds? Should we start saying dog breeds are a social construct for the benefit of the greater good in the dog world as well? If we repeat a Lie enough times it becomes truth right? I mean its not fair that "Mud Dogs" have a greater chance of getting thrown out in the streets and ending up at the animal shelter while the "Pure" Breeds have a better chance of living a privileged life.

[#FF0000]

You say that Race doesn't exist yet you talk about all these different races... lol

They exist as social constructs.


There are many other physical characteristics other than skin color that set apart all these non existing different races but it just so happens that people associate skin color because its the most obvious difference.
Yeah, but they're still just arbitrary physical traits. Why not say everyone with a hitchhiker's thumb or an attached earlobe is a separate race?



What about dog breeds? Should we start saying dog breeds are a social construct for the benefit of the greater good in the dog world as well? If we repeat a Lie enough times it becomes truth right? I mean its not fair that "Mud Dogs" have a greater chance of getting thrown out in the streets and ending up at the animal shelter while the "Pure" Breeds have a better chance of living a privileged life.Dog breeds are a result of conscious domestic breeding, though. Animal breeds and human races are apples and oranges.


I agree with you.

Likewise a lot of racist non-whites blame white people and white privilege for their own poverty. Their poor choices have put them in the ghetto.So, what, racism just stopped in the 50's and never affected anybody again?


They think it's all YT's fault and that whitey took everything away from them.Nah. Maybe the racist caricature of a black person in your head says that, but no, people don't believe it's because of "white people". People who take issue with institutional racism and "white privilege" might seem threatening to you, but yeah, they aren't blaming you.


A good future depends on the individual and it does take hard work. There are poor people in every race/city or whatever. lol awww and i bet you believe in santa claus too.

Really the only way someone can sit here and say "yeah no racism doesn't exist anymore" is to just avoid every study that suggests the exact opposite.

[RGacky3]

Their poor choices have put them in the ghetto. They think it's all YT's fault and that whitey took everything away from them. A good future depends on the individual and it does take hard work. There are poor people in every race/city or whatever.

Their poor choices? You mean being born?

And yeah, its all individual choice, and systemic power structures have nothing to do with it, common man.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by a rebel http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2065710#post2065710)
Racism is for ignorant, scared, dipshits who need someone to blame for their own poverty, when its really their inferiority that put them there. As for the
"white race", the idiot white people who are shouting "white power!" at Latins, blacks, and Jews, also live in a trailer park. the "white" version of a ghetto. They think they live their not because they are degenerate people, but because "Immigrants took our jobs",. When all it would take is hard work they aren't willing to put in to get them some place better.


People are ignorant for a reason and it has nothing to do with a personal choice. I don't think it's fair calling them degenerate if they live in a trailer park and have no jobs. There's a great deal more here than just people living in trailer parks and being ignorant. Often they're from families that have been out of work for a long time, have no safety net to fall back on, live in areas deprived of any real means to improve their lives, live in a culture where learning or reading about anything, or even just being intellectual, is frowned upon. Their behaviour isn't inherent in them, you know, it's kinda forced upon them.


Why not say everyone with [...] an attached earlobe is a separate race?

That actually used to be the case. There was something about Hitler wanting a photograph of Stalin's earlobes to see if they were attached or not before he could do a deal with him.

[Viet Minh]

I agree with you.

Likewise a lot of racist non-whites blame white people and white privilege for their own poverty. Their poor choices have put them in the ghetto. They think it's all YT's fault and that whitey took everything away from them. A good future depends on the individual and it does take hard work. There are poor people in every race/city or whatever.

Someone posted here saying jews and asians were proportionally richer than white people in the US, I'm not sure about the statistics but whats your opinion if thats true? White people are just lazy?


You say that Race doesn't exist yet you talk about all these different races... lol

He was making a point that what you see as black and white is nowhere near that simple


There are many other physical characteristics other than skin color that set apart all these non existing different races but it just so happens that people associate skin color because its the most obvious difference.

Such as.. ? :blink:


What about dog breeds? Should we start saying dog breeds are a social construct for the benefit of the greater good in the dog world as well? If we repeat a Lie enough times it becomes truth right? I mean its not fair that "Mud Dogs" have a greater chance of getting thrown out in the streets and ending up at the animal shelter while the "Pure" Breeds have a better chance of living a privileged life.

'Mud dogs' have a better chance of being healthy and fit, wheras purebreeds have health problems exacerbated by inbreeding. People who judge dogs at shows etc are just strange people imo, what makes one dog better looking than another? :confused:

[GallowsBird]

You say that Race doesn't exist yet you talk about all these different races... lol

Hence I had them as quotation marks as I talking about them as a concept based on cultural ignorance rather than fact. I can talk about the Tooth Fairy while knowing she doesn't exist literally.


There are many other physical characteristics other than skin color that set apart all these non existing different races but it just so happens that people associate skin color because its the most obvious difference.

Yes but none of those contribute to those groups being different races.


What about dog breeds? Should we start saying dog breeds are a social construct for the benefit of the greater good in the dog world as well? If we repeat a Lie enough times it becomes truth right? I mean its not fair that "Mud Dogs" have a greater chance of getting thrown out in the streets and ending up at the animal shelter while the "Pure" Breeds have a better chance of living a privileged life.

But dog breeds aren't the same as human populations and still aren't "dog races" they have just been altered by man through selective breeding. And you can talk about different groups, such as ethnolinguistic groups, however to talk of "races" is ridiculous.

Incidentally I disagree with all this "white privilege" stuff (the terminology at least) but you have to admit that non-"white" populations have been and are still discriminated against... my main problem there being that some "white" groups are, and sometimes using any of the physical differences in "white" populations. However I don't want to start a "white privilege" debate here as I have just left one which is becoming a flame-fest.

[PhoenixAsh]

I agree with you.

Likewise a lot of racist non-whites blame white people and white privilege for their own poverty. Their poor choices have put them in the ghetto. They think it's all YT's fault and that whitey took everything away from them. A good future depends on the individual and it does take hard work. There are poor people in every race/city or whatever.


Are you fucking insane? Poverty is a choice? People one day decided..."o lets be/stay poor....it would be a swell way to live my life??? "

A good future depends on a lot of factors...being an induvidual who works hard is one of them....but it is the least important one of them. Being born and HAVING THE CHANCE...read that CHANCE...of applying yourself MAY...read that again...MAY give you a good future....and being poor MAY perhaps give you just one shot to do it right.

Why the fuck do you think children from poor families often remain in the same economic group? Because they get inferior education, because they can not afford to spend their time studying, because they can not afford to study at college or university level as easilly as privileged rich people can...and because they suffer more health related problems....
ALL factors which go with being poor...

[Lt. Ferret]

i was poor and now im awesome.

[Revolution starts with U]

I wouldn't exactly call being an imperialist stooge "awesome." But to each his own.
Also notice he said "may."

[RGacky3]

i was poor and now im awesome.


.... No your not man, anyone that refers to himself as awesome ... most likely is not.

Many poor people were poor and then awesome and STILL poor.