re: left and right wing football teams

[Viet Minh]

I'm restricted so can't post there, but just wanted to say I heard Fenerbahce were the more working class football team in Istanbul, and allegedly anti-fascist.

[Manic Impressive]

haha I've been dying to post in that thread :laugh:

To people saying Millwall are fascist don't know what they're talking about. I used to be with the bushwhackers (Millwalls firm) when it was run by a Turkish guy (yes that part of football factory was true)
http://thensaturdaycomes.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/millwall-bushwackers.jpg?w=420&h=286
While West Ham's ICF were run by a black guy back in the 80's

Political discussions were frowned upon, the general attitude was "football is our politics, nothing else matters". Of course there were people with racist attitudes but there were both black and white guys. There was absolutely no kind of fascist or WP indoctrination and as for being right wing as in conservatives most hated the tories.

But meh whatever I just hate seeing the stereotypes being regurgitated so to those of you who are talking out your arse
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeOZcli3jWn5e6thKm-0JHRHGi2Fjoai7YcEtE6SJBRWzqv1aPng
NO ONE LIKES US & WE DON'T CARE :cool:

I think football clubs in England are largely apolitical, which is not how they started but as for left wing clubs I was surprised no mentioned Liverpool to me they are by far the most left wing club associated mainly with the trade unions rather than Che Guevara. Remember when Robbie Fowler showed his support for the Dockers strike?
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwl2zYWg1tIHHJZNa6P6w8OPbfU_zaA cEsqxiinWxnOrcQOM2bnQ
After he showed that shirt in a european game (I think) after scoring everyone wanted one. The shirts were being sold by the dockers to provide relief for workers on strike and the funds raised through heightened sales provided a little relief for the men let down by their own union.

[Viet Minh]

haha I've been dying to post in that thread :laugh:

To people saying Millwall are fascist don't know what they're talking about. I used to be with the bushwhackers (Millwalls firm) when it was run by a Turkish guy (yes that part of football factory was true)

While West Ham's ICF were run by a black guy back in the 80's

Political discussions were frowned upon, the general attitude was "football is our politics, nothing else matters". Of course there were people with racist attitudes but there were both black and white guys. There was absolutely no kind of fascist or WP indoctrination and as for being right wing as in conservatives most hated the tories.

But meh whatever I just hate seeing the stereotypes being regurgitated so to those of you who are talking out your arse

NO ONE LIKES US & WE DON'T CARE :cool:

I think football clubs in England are largely apolitical, which is not how they started but as for left wing clubs I was surprised no mentioned Liverpool to me they are by far the most left wing club associated mainly with the trade unions rather than Che Guevara. Remember when Robbie Fowler showed his support for the Dockers strike?
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwl2zYWg1tIHHJZNa6P6w8OPbfU_zaA cEsqxiinWxnOrcQOM2bnQ
After he showed that shirt in a european game (I think) after scoring everyone wanted one. The shirts were being sold by the dockers to provide relief for workers on strike and the funds raised through heightened sales provided a little relief for the men let down by their own union.

I never knew that about Liverpool, but thats interesting. I know Everton in the past had some racist controversy.

[Revolutionair]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeOZcli3jWn5e6thKm-0JHRHGi2Fjoai7YcEtE6SJBRWzqv1aPng

Is that the real picture? I thought it was from Feyenoord:
http://ronney.web-log.nl/photos/uncategorized/feyenoord_1.jpg

[ComradeMan]

Italian fans used to have "wings"... not so much these days and definitely more rightwing in general. :( It's hard to generalise but more to the left in terms of fans would be, in my opinion.

Napoli

Roma :tt1: (except for some admittedly)

Inter to an extent...

and the most leftwing Livorno :hammersickle:.

On the right.... well, Lazio:crying: fans, let's say...have a reputation.

Milan is a difficult one- they used to have a strong worker base but given their ownership... well....

[Manic Impressive]

http://libcom.org/tags/liverpool-dockers-strike

[Manic Impressive]

Is that the real picture? I thought it was from Feyenoord:
http://ronney.web-log.nl/photos/uncategorized/feyenoord_1.jpg
HAHA I guess that's the original and someone photo shopped the millwall emblem on there.

[Revolutionair]

Well I'm not sure myself, that's why I asked. Both look legit, albeit the Feyenoord one a bit more (looking at the paint on the kids face).

[ComradeMan]

I've seen that photo for so many teams- each time with a different shirt but the same kid!!!

I'm not sure if I find it right on some level.

[Viet Minh]

The feyenoord is the original, apparently he's grown up now and hates the picture. :D

I heard ages ago Inter had a large Jewish support, and AC had taken to making Nazi salutes at them. Generally though I think the left wing/ right wing football thing is a load of crap, ultimately it effectively just legitimises Fascism, makes leftists look bad by association, and possibly even gives the right wing a whole new recruiting ground.

[bricolage]

interesting post manic, I think the people saying millwall are fascist have either been watching two many films or are hung up on stereotypes of the 80s. and like I said in the other thread I say this as a palace fan.

[Revolutionair]

Now on topic: there are some anti-fascists or anti-Nazis in Ajax. But some are Zionists too. (the supporters of Ajax are called The Jews)

[Viet Minh]

Incidentally feyenoord could possibly be added to the right wing with their 'hamas hamas jews to the gas' chants, not dfor the hamas buit but the Nazi references and accompanying salutes.

[Revolutionair]

Meh, they just did that to annoy Ajax. I doubt Feyenoord is Nazi.

[Sasha]

The Feyenoord firm battered a Nazi group in 2000 or so, way before it became fashionable. They also had an good antiracist group of fans. Sadly they enmass supported Pim fortuyn, when he died they almost triggerd race riots.
most hardcore nazis support rotterdams seccond team Sparta, wich always amazes me as they also have a big leftwing Turkish/kurdish following.
in the 80s there where big Nazi problems at ado the Hague and fc groningen but now a days as far as I know only vitesse tolerate nazis on the stands and in their town.
worth to mention are the vandas noord, zwolle's firm. staunch antifascists and quite leftist.

[Viet Minh]

The Feyenoord firm battered a Nazi group in 2000 or so, way before it became fashionable. They also had an good antiracist group of fans. Sadly they enmass supported Pim fortuyn, when he died they almost triggerd race riots.
most hardcore nazis support rotterdams seccond team Sparta, wich always amazes me as they also have a big leftwing Turkish/kurdish following.
in the 80s there where big Nazi problems at ado the Hague and fc groningen but now a days as far as I know only vitesse tolerate nazis on the stands and in their town.
worth to mention are the vandas noord, zwolle's firm. staunch antifascists and quite leftist.

What about Willem II?

[Che a chara]

While these are some Rangers fans.

http://www.thejunglebhoys.net/jb/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rangers_nazi_salute_israel_2.jpg

I'd be a Celtic supporter, but the above picture is often misrepresented. The Rangers fans are actually doing the 'Red hand of Ulster' salute and not a Nazi one.

[ComradeMan]

Wz4Cg6CJNms

nwmP9uzoXHM

dEi7xWqIyK4

1dCnIi_Id9Q

[hatzel]

I say this as a palace fan.

Yrrch43CweU

:lol:

[Che a chara]

Bobby Sands and Che Guevara banner at a Livorno game:
http://i55.tinypic.com/kf1wgj.jpg

Livorno and Green Brigade banner:
http://i54.tinypic.com/24boj06.jpg

[RGacky3]

As an American in Europe ..... WTF???

[Viet Minh]

I'd be a Celtic supporter, but the above picture is often misrepresented. The Rangers fans are actually doing the 'Red hand of Ulster' salute and not a Nazi one.

Thank you, yes the majority do it out of ignorance, I've even done it myself not realising what I was doing, but there are unfortunately a lot of idiots that support rangers and hold very fascist beliefs. In my experience they are still the minority, but as celtic fans display more left wing symbolism so rangers fans automatically respond with right wing symbolism. :rolleyes: Its similar with the Israel/ Palestine issue, as Celtic fans started to fly Palestinian flags Rangers automatically have to fly the Israel flag, and talk shit about terrorism, conveniently forgetting it was actually Zionist groups who made terrorist attacks against the British in Palestine (Fun Fact: It was the British army who designed the Arab Revolt flag upon which the Palestinian flag and Pan Arab colours are based) I'm not getting into whether or not that was justified, just saying, like with Feyenoord, a lot of the culture surrounding football is trolling, albeit in very bad taste. It does have a negative affect now though as the british far right see impressionable (ie stupid) rangers fans as potential candidates for their nazi ideology, and try to turn it into a breeding ground for hate. I'm a hearts fan and its exactly the same there. :crying:

[Manic Impressive]

interesting post manic, I think the people saying millwall are fascist have either been watching two many films or are hung up on stereotypes of the 80s. and like I said in the other thread I say this as a palace fan.
Thanks mate I was a little surprised to see a crippled alice fan oops I mean Crystal Palace fan :p sticking up for us, Dirty South solidarity :D.

You can see football violence two ways, you can see it the way the press does as a bunch of skinheads beating people up throwing molotovs and bricks at the police and damaging property or you could see it as a release of working class frustration, having a tare up but not really knowing the cause of their frustration and acting out against the wrong people. The press love to demonize any show of working class aggression, although the firms were not trying to bring down a government or make any progressive social changes the violence is an act of defiance against the law and the state, which obviously cannot be tolerated. Which is why such ugly stereotypes were created.

I've often thought if those firms could have been radicalized they could teach the black blocs a thing or two about rioting.

[Tifosi]

Inter to an extent...

Inter Milans curva isn't left-wing in any way. Remember Mario Balotelli was subject to racist abuse - from his own teams fans - every over game.

Inter fans have good relations with Lazio ultras, Irreducible Inter share their name with their more famous friends from Lazio.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2183/0405varesinialivorno200zb0.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1658/intermilan8485op5.jpg
Banner says "Milan fans are jews, same race, same end"

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3811/skinsboysse9.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3636/congliebreianchiinapolesb5.jpg
Banner says "Hitler: With the Jews are also the Napoletans"

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1509/interroma0405dz0.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8787/boys20vecchiahl3.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4829/livornocoreografiaxr2.jpg
Banner says "For your information its the symbol of our nation"

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9897/livornoirriducibiliah7.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9616/livornostendardizk6.jpg

http://img92.exs.cx/img92/6030/20032004intersampdoria20085ze.jpg

[Manic Impressive]

Is that the English flag I keep seeing or is it Lombardia or something?

[ComradeMan]

Is that the English flag I keep seeing or is it Lombardia or something?


No, I think you'll find that the English flash is actually the Genoese flag that was borrowed by the English. Lombardia is to the north and the cross of St George is found on their flags- it's all to do with the Crusades.


@Tifosi- The Inter fans used to have two wings- left and right and when there was no "opposition" they would go against each other! The fan base for Inter has a lot of leftwing support but like I said, it's going more right with many teams and many leftwing fans, at least the ones I know, can't be bothered with the Ultras and with the stadium- very sad. A lot of stuff is also connected to the North-South issue in Italy too.

[Viet Minh]

No, I think you'll find that the English flash is actually the Genoese flag that was borrowed by the English. Lombardia is to the north and the cross of St George is found on their flags- it's all to do with the Crusades.


@Tifosi- The Inter fans used to have two wings- left and right and when there was no "opposition" they would go against each other! The fan base for Inter has a lot of leftwing support but like I said, it's going more right with many teams and many leftwing fans, at least the ones I know, can't be bothered with the Ultras and with the stadium- very sad. A lot of stuff is also connected to the North-South issue in Italy too.

Its not necessarily to do with the Crusades, St George is the Patron Saint of a lot of places, England, Georgia, Catalonia I think..

[ComradeMan]

Its not necessarily to do with the Crusades, St George is the Patron Saint of a lot of places, England, Georgia, Catalonia I think..

No, it's actually to do with the Crusades. As the story goes, Richard the Lionheart rented the Genoese flag so his ships and troops could be escorted to the Holy Land without fear of attack because at the time no one would have dared touch a ship with a Genoese flag- a bit like seeing a US/UK warfleet these days.

[hatzel]

Dirty South solidarity :D

You're in bandit country now, boy, no-one will even know you were fuckin' here! There's holes dug all over South London for people like you...

:laugh:

[Manic Impressive]

You're in bandit country now, boy, no-one will even know you were fuckin' here! There's holes dug all over South London for people like you...

:laugh:
yer damn right sunshine nah on yer bike 'nd jog on u mush :p

[hatzel]

yer damn right sunshine nah on yer bike 'nd jog on u mush :p
You tryin' to mug me off in front of my pals?! Don't get lemon, boy, or I'll take you outside and open you up! :scared:

[Viet Minh]

You tryin' to mug me off in front of my pals?! Don't get lemon, boy, or I'll take you outside and open you up! :scared:

ur 'avin a laaaarrrf mate! :D

[hatzel]

ur 'avin a laaaarrrf mate! :D

Fancy yourself, do ya? C'mon then, I'll crack ya canister if you ain't careful! Don't go startin' one with me, I'll make ya sorry you were fuckin' born! :w00t:

[Tifosi]

@Tifosi- The Inter fans used to have two wings- left and right and when there was no "opposition" they would go against each other! The fan base for Inter has a lot of leftwing support but like I said, it's going more right with many teams and many leftwing fans, at least the ones I know, can't be bothered with the Ultras and with the stadium- very sad. A lot of stuff is also connected to the North-South issue in Italy too.

Do you have any infomation on left-wing groups at Inter Milan? I don't know to much about the history of the Curva Nord. Yet I haven't heard of any left-wing group controlling the Curva Nord. Groups like Boys San and Viking seem to have been in control for the most part.

But what you are saying seems very similar to what is going on at AC Milan. With Fossa dei Leoni (in my eyes the greatest group ever) being pushed off the Curva Sud by right-wing groups like Brigate Rossonere. Now former FDL members are boycotting Milan games. It's sad times.

[bricolage]

5aKHUoIHZV4

[hatzel]

That is my life to a tee :)

[bricolage]

it's still a classic, if only for asher "I don't need a gat to walk the high street" d... who then got arrested for that very thing.

[bricolage]

and also cos its straight up southside pride.
I tell you I would abandon every idea I've ever had on nationalism is south london were a county, I'd be in the trenches for the motherland and moaning about north londoners coming here and not flying the flag

[hatzel]

Asher D for lolz. I once met Ha-ar-ve-ey of So Solid fame. Fun fact! To link it in with this thread, it was at one of those charity football matches, he was on one of the teams :thumbup:

[bricolage]

ah yeah didn't he play for afc wimbledon?

[ComradeMan]

Do you have any infomation on left-wing groups at Inter Milan? I don't know to much about the history of the Curva Nord. Yet I haven't heard of any left-wing group controlling the Curva Nord. Groups like Boys San and Viking seem to have been in control for the most part.

But what you are saying seems very similar to what is going on at AC Milan. With Fossa dei Leoni (in my eyes the greatest group ever) being pushed off the Curva Sud by right-wing groups like Brigate Rossonere. Now former FDL members are boycotting Milan games. It's sad times.

I am not an Interista but I know Interistas-- I'll get back to you.

To be quite frank though I find the whole rather stupid- FFS it's football and the players who earn 10 lifetimes of the average fans salary for one season don't give a shit.

PS I hate Lazio! :lol:

[Manic Impressive]

and also cos its straight up southside pride.
I tell you I would abandon every idea I've ever had on nationalism is south london were a county, I'd be in the trenches for the motherland and moaning about north londoners coming here and not flying the flag
so true lol "you need your passport to cross the river". I'm all in favour of the socialist peoples republic of South London

[Wanted Man]

What about Willem II?

A club that's too tiny and shit to worry about politics? :p The club was named after a 19th-century king who was based in Tilburg, and the hardcore fans are known as the "King side", but that doesn't really say much about politics. It's not very useful to try to assign a political label to every club in existence.

The Ajax/Jews thing became highlighted again a while ago after an ADO Den Haag player was seen chanting "We're hunting the Jews!" after the club beat Ajax. Both the player and most fans of ADO (and the other sides that hate Ajax, i.e. all other sides) will claim that the anti-Jew chants are purely aimed at the Ajax fans who style themselves "Jews", that they do not even have the slightest bit of antisemitic intent. And I'm actually pretty sure that they mean this.

It's just that they apparently missed something in their education about why it is a problem to chant stuff about "gassing" and "hunting" Jews. It seems to me that this takes precedence over whether others choose to call themselves "Jews" or not, but try explaining that to some people.

[hatzel]

ah yeah didn't he play for afc wimbledon?

Until he got banged up, I do believe :rolleyes:

[ComradeMan]

so true lol "you need your passport to cross the river". I'm all in favour of the socialist peoples republic of South London

I thought EAST LONDON was the "real" London? When I was there that's what they told me... near Upton Park anyway!!!! ;)

[hatzel]

I thought EAST LONDON was the "real" London? When I was there that's what they told me... near Upton Park anyway!!!! ;)

http://freelancefolder.com/wp-content/uploads/lies.jpg

[ComradeMan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ I take it you're not from East London then! I don't suppose you eat those horrible eels either!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Viet Minh]

A club that's too tiny and shit to worry about politics? :p The club was named after a 19th-century king who was based in Tilburg, and the hardcore fans are known as the "King side", but that doesn't really say much about politics. It's not very useful to try to assign a political label to every club in existence..

I know but I quite liked them when I saw a clip of them on youtube against Ajax, also for sort of bullshit sectarian reasons.. :blushing:
I just wanted to make sure they weren't hardcore fash before I went to a game, I already made that mistake with Airdrie!! :huh: :huh: :huh:


:huh:


:huh:


:huh:







:huh:




The Ajax/Jews thing became highlighted again a while ago after an ADO Den Haag player was seen chanting "We're hunting the Jews!" after the club beat Ajax. Both the player and most fans of ADO (and the other sides that hate Ajax, i.e. all other sides) will claim that the anti-Jew chants are purely aimed at the Ajax fans who style themselves "Jews", that they do not even have the slightest bit of antisemitic intent. And I'm actually pretty sure that they mean this.

It's just that they apparently missed something in their education about why it is a problem to chant stuff about "gassing" and "hunting" Jews. It seems to me that this takes precedence over whether others choose to call themselves "Jews" or not, but try explaining that to some people.

Someone's just telling me Ajax fans joined with Morrocan gangs to attack the EDL nazis :thumbup1: I have to admit I do like Ajax but its stupid to fly the Israel flag, in a way it actually promotes that antisemitism, although of course I'm not removing blame from opposition fans in any way.

[ComradeMan]

Someone's just telling me Ajax fans joined with Morrocan gangs to attack the EDL nazis :thumbup1: I have to admit I do like Ajax but its stupid to fly the Israel flag, in a way it actually promotes that antisemitism, although of course I'm not removing blame from opposition fans in any way.

Well Amsterdam is "Groot Mokum"- when I was there I met some Ajax boys who had Jewish stars and all the symbols, only one was Jewish- but it's part of the identity of the city I belief and a lot of Amsterdam dialect is Yiddish- as I was told!

Roma fans also come in for abuse from Lazio fans as "Jews and negri"- lovely people aren't they? However Roma fans usually identify "symbolically" with Rome, the Wolf, the Legions and Ancient Rome etc....The Eternal City! Caput Mundi!

It's a rather dubious claim, but it seems sports hooliganism may have had its roots in Ancient Rome- at one time Pompeii fans were banned from travelling "away" to gladiatorial contests! Nothing new under the Sun!

[Viet Minh]

Well Amsterdam is "Groot Mokum"- when I was there I met some Ajax boys who had Jewish stars and all the symbols, only one was Jewish- but it's part of the identity of the city I belief and a lot of Amsterdam dialect is Yiddish- as I was told!

Roma fans also come in for abuse from Lazio fans as "Jews and negri"- lovely people aren't they? However Roma fans usually identify "symbolically" with Rome, the Wolf, the Legions and Ancient Rome etc....The Eternal City! Caput Mundi!

It's a rather dubious claim, but it seems sports hooliganism may have had its roots in Ancient Rome- at one time Pompeii fans were banned from travelling "away" to gladiatorial contests! Nothing new under the Sun!

:D

There's quite an old game played in Italy thats very like soccer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcio_Fiorentino

[ComradeMan]

Calcio Fiorentino!

Some of the greatest players were members of the Medici family.

The modern version allows tactics such as head-butting, punching, elbowing, and choking, but forbids sucker punching and kicks to the head.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcio_Fiorentino#cite_note-4)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcio_Fiorentino

It's pointless diving for a "free kick" because someone will probably stamp on you if you do!:lol:

It's only a ceremonial sport really, played for three encounters in June every year for tradition. It does seem that they are trying to revive it or something. Tuscany, a giant museum and art gallery....:laugh:

[hatzel]

It's pointless diving for a "free kick" because someone will probably stamp on you if you do!:lol:

Clearly the Italian football technique wasn't at all inspired by this game...unless maybe they were taken advantage of the opportunity to dive without getting stamped on, and got a bit carried away, making the most of the opportunity :glare:

[ComradeMan]

Clearly the Italian football technique wasn't at all inspired by this game...unless maybe they were taken advantage of the opportunity to dive without getting stamped on, and got a bit carried away, making the most of the opportunity :glare:

Touché- *cough Gerrard, *cough Terry errhum... anyway.

So, when are you guys going to win the World Cup again (sans-suspicious linesman and referee? :laugh:

Touché!!!

PS Only joking!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/dec/15/england-football-diving-bigotry-hypocrisy

[hatzel]

We don't dive...ever...

http://talkingship.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Soccer-Dive.jpg


:laugh:

[Revolutionair]

O.o

Look at that guy, who is getting jumped on, screaming. I guess someone told him what's coming to him.

[Coggeh]

We don't dive...ever...

http://talkingship.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Soccer-Dive.jpg


:laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARp5CGb6xnA

[Viet Minh]

O.o

Look at that guy, who is getting jumped on, screaming. I guess someone told him what's coming to him.

If that happened, your life would flash before your eyes! :huh: I'm an England fan but I think Rooney is the most overrated player, ever!

I've started so I'll finish, it annoys me how the English media start saying England is definately going to win the World Cup, then when they inevaitably get beaten blame everything wholesale on the manager (especially if he's a 'foreigner') like non of the players have any blame.

[hatzel]

I think Rooney is the most overrated player, ever!

http://img.skysports.com/08/06/800x600/zlatan-ibrahimovic_957494.jpg

[Manic Impressive]

If that happened, your life would flash before your eyes! :huh: I'm an England fan but I think Rooney is the most overrated player, ever!

I've started so I'll finish, it annoys me how the English media start saying England is definately going to win the World Cup, then when they inevaitably get beaten blame everything wholesale on the manager (especially if he's a 'foreigner') like non of the players have any blame.
I'm not an England fan I actually cheer for them to lose. Winning at football is counter revolutionary. If England actually some how managed to win a world cup nationalism and patriotism would go through the roof, it would be unbearable. People are much more likely to become militant when they feel their country is shit and football is the new opiate of the masses, it is practically a religion for some.

but yeah Rooney is shit

[Viet Minh]

I'm not an England fan I actually cheer for them to lose. Winning at football is counter revolutionary. If England actually some how managed to win a world cup nationalism and patriotism would go through the roof, it would be unbearable. People are much more likely to become militant when they feel their country is shit and football is the new opiate of the masses, it is practically a religion for some.

but yeah Rooney is shit

Nationalism goes through the roof whoever wins or loses pretty much. I despise concepts of Nationalism and football is definately a contributing factor, but there can also be positives to it. I actually enjoy the African Cup of Nations more than the World Cup, thats a far more positive side of football.

And no offence but that counter-support is a very negative attitude imo, for instance in Scotland i witness it all the time against England and although some are just good humoured about it there is definately a nastier element as well. The same can be said for Englands attitude to Germany, beautifully parodied in this song ..

Sav8xG2JY_k

[hatzel]

ARGH, fuck that bombers song! Most annoying experience of my life: sitting on the night bus back from town, listening to a bunch of [insert expletive]s singing that over and over for about an hour :cursing:

[Viet Minh]

argh, fuck that bombers song! Most annoying experience of my life: Sitting on the night bus back from town, listening to a bunch of [insert expletive]s singing that over and over for about an hour :cursing:

:d :d :d

[Manic Impressive]

Nationalism goes through the roof whoever wins or loses pretty much. I despise concepts of Nationalism and football is definately a contributing factor, but there can also be positives to it. I actually enjoy the African Cup of Nations more than the World Cup, thats a far more positive side of football.

And no offence but that counter-support is a very negative attitude imo, for instance in Scotland i witness it all the time against England and although some are just good humoured about it there is definately a nastier element as well. The same can be said for Englands attitude to Germany, beautifully parodied in this song ..
I disagree after the Germany game everyone was saying "Germany deserved it". There seemed to me that for the first time in my life I was seeing a softening of opinion towards Germany. There is a bit of nationalism if you go out on penalties or unfairly but when you play like shit and get whooped 4-1 there can't really be many complaints or sense of pride.

The bourgeoisie understand the importance of national sporting success. In the 60's there was growing militancy and some radical members of the labour party in parliament. Before someone says that radical labour mp's is a huge contradiction, they were republican and calling for a referendum on the monarchy that's unimaginable now. So from a feeling of unrest and radicalization England manage to win a world cup and national pride goes through the roof with street parties and union jack flags being flown across the streets.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that there is a greater chance of a revolution happening if a country loses at football. But national success at anything can delay militancy and renew national pride. This is the reason they pull out royal weddings and alike when there is unrest. National pride may not be important to us but it is to them and that's why I want this country to fail at everything it attempts :)

[Viet Minh]

I disagree after the Germany game everyone was saying "Germany deserved it". There seemed to me that for the first time in my life I was seeing a softening of opinion towards Germany. There is a bit of nationalism if you go out on penalties or unfairly but when you play like shit and get whooped 4-1 there can't really be many complaints or sense of pride.

The bourgeoisie understand the importance of national sporting success. In the 60's there was growing militancy and some radical members of the labour party in parliament. Before someone says that radical labour mp's is a huge contradiction, they were republican and calling for a referendum on the monarchy that's unimaginable now. So from a feeling of unrest and radicalization England manage to win a world cup and national pride goes through the roof with street parties and union jack flags being flown across the streets.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that there is a greater chance of a revolution happening if a country loses at football. But national success at anything can delay militancy and renew national pride. This is the reason they pull out royal weddings and alike when there is unrest. National pride may not be important to us but it is to them and that's why I want this country to fail at everything it attempts :)

Sport is a powerful political tool, it allows the working class to vent their frustration without threatening the status quo, and the same bourgeouis to subtly manipulate public opinion.
Football was a contributing factor the El Salvador/ Honduras war and troubles in the Balkans.

[Viet Minh]

How football helped a revolution (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12911054)

[graffic]

I was at the hapoel Haifa V Maccabi Haifa derby a few weeks ago and there is a bit of political rivalry there. Maccabi used to be the deprived team with right wing fans, hapoel being funded by the labour establishment, however now Maccabi are big and have loads more fans but the leftvright divide is still there to an extent. There was a Che flag and a bastard on the maccabi side with a massive banner with a ban sign over the hammer and sickel communist logo. I The worst fans in Israel are beitar Jerusalem, they are racists trying to be like european fans

[ComradeMan]

ARGH, fuck that bombers song! Most annoying experience of my life: sitting on the night bus back from town, listening to a bunch of [insert expletive]s singing that over and over for about an hour :cursing:

Let's face it- intelligence and football fans don't often go together- unfortunately. One thing I have noticed is that the British fans, English and Scots in particular, seem to see their football encounters as some kind of retribution/vindication/glorification of every battle or war they have ever fought. Whilst the Scottish fans seem like extras from the set of Braveheart the English fans have this thing against Germany where they have to sing about the Second World War all the time, despite usually losing on the field of play. It's rather childish in my opinion and makes them a laughing stock in the rest of Europe.

Britain and Ireland have produced some great footballer who I respect as players, George Best, Gary Lineker, Alan Hansen are a few that come to mind but unfortunately their fans often leave a lot to be desired. This is not to deny the appalling behaviour of some of the Italian "tifosi" either, however that seems to be more at club level and not at international level.

[Viet Minh]

Whats the deal with the Hapoel and Maccabi teams? Do all Hapoel teams have some common bond for example, or are they all rivals?

[graffic]

i don't think hapoel haifa and hapoel tel aviv fans would hate each other that much because they are both clubs with a left-wing fan base who wave che flags and communist logos at games. The biggest rivalry is with the two Haifa teams, tel-aviv teams and any arab/left wing side who play against beitar Jerusalem.

[Viet Minh]

I like Queens Park (despite the name!) for their determination not to sell out and turn professional. They also had the first ever black player. The fans supposedly have links to sg wattenscheid in Germany, does anyone know if they have left or right wing support (if either).. ?