Hungarian Far-right patrolling in Roma neighbourhoods

[Viet Minh]

http://aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2011/3/28/2011328113450959621_20.jpg



The Hungarian far right looks set to roll out a campaign of Roma intimidation after meeting little resistance to its vigilante "law and order" mission in Gyongyospata, a Hungarian village of 2,800 people 80km north-east of Budapest.

For A Better Future, a paramilitary organisation deriving its name from a Nazi youth movement slogan, entered the village at the start of the month. It conducted foot and car patrols, followed Roma around and stopped them from entering shops.

On March 10, the intimidation reached its peak when 1,000 black-uniformed neo-Nazis marched through the village, some reportedly armed with dogs, whips and chains.

Many Roma were afraid to leave their homes or take their children to school. The local mayor, Laszlo Tabi, who is not officially allied to a political party, allegedly offered his seal of approval, while the police sat on their hands.

"I cried when I saw them marching," says Janos Farkas, the spokesman for the village's 450-strong Roma community which centres around a dirt road in a shallow valley at the edge of the village. Many of the dilapidated homes do not have mains water and few of their occupants jobs.

"I can't see how this could happen in a democratic country? The police are now present, but why did they let it go on for three weeks?" asks Farkas.

Nothing has been done to stop the vigilantes from restarting their activities here or to prevent them springing up elsewhere.

A national 'example'

"This looks like a local conflict, but it is a national one," says Kristof Szombati of Politics Can Be Different, a liberal green party. On this, if nothing else, the far right agrees with him.

Gyongyospata provides an "example for future situations" says Gabor Vona, the leader of the extreme-right Jobbik party, which is behind the uniformed intervention, at a press conference in the village council chamber. His party hopes to use the vigilante campaign to mark the first anniversary of its entry into parliament, with 17 per cent of the vote, next month.

Among those areas targeted for vigilante takeover is Hajduhadhaz, a town of 13,000 in the east.

"The police do not have enough power to handle the situation," says Gabor Kovacs, a Gyongyospata-born vigilante volunteer in full black uniform, fumbling with his black baseball cap.

"The Roma have stolen vegetables and grapevines," he says, although he explains that the identity of culprits is rarely known because thefts often happen at night when victims are asleep.

"We have a good working relationship with the police. I also have criticisms, but I do not want to talk about them publicly," says Vona. The county police are reported to be aware of the formation of a permanent local branch of the vigilante movement.

"I feel better with For A Better Future patrolling here than with the police," says a non-Roma villager, unwilling to give her name, for fear that her Roma neighbours will find out. She says Roma have scaled her fence and stolen two hens, one this year, one last.

"I can't let my hands rest in my lap for a second while Roma might come along and burn my house down." The best solution, she says, would be to "take them away".

Her middle-aged neighbour, Sandor Torok, prefers far less drastic action. He had a chainsaw stolen from his yard in late January but got it back after three hours after offering a Roma boy a 5,000 forint ($26) reward for its return.

Allegations of more serious Roma-misdeeds are doing the rounds among non-Roma villagers too, none of which can be confirmed. One elderly non-Roma man is even said to have killed himself because he thought Roma neighbours might move in. According to a clerk in the council offices, some Roma beat a young female school teacher, although a fellow teacher said she had not heard of the incident.

"Roma have lived here for 500 years and have always stuck to the law. Only one or two youngsters have done anything wrong," says Farkas.

There is no evidence that even petty crime has risen in Gyongyospata, but the financial crisis has driven up the significance of people's everyday possessions and the far right is only too happy for the chance to profit from the heightened sensitivity.


http://aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/03/2011328102243552176.html

[hatzel]

Fun fact: many of the criminal Roma in Hungary were taken from their families as children by the social services, and put into white Hungarian families. As far as the Romane communities are concerned, these people are not Roma. As far as the far-right Hungarians are concerned, though...well, I'll leave that up to you to figure out...:)

I encountered many Kaale in Finland whilst I was researching for my dissertation who told me of almost identical problems. The social services there only stopped routinely seizing their children in the 1970's...

[Viet Minh]

Ethnic identity is such bollocks, these Hungarian Nazis would face discrimination in other countries, such as Serbia where they themselves are a minority.

[hatzel]

Ethnic identity is such bollocks, these Hungarian Nazis would face discrimination...

...from the actual Nazis, for being Hunnic / Turkic / Ugric / ah, just generally foreign invaders from far off in Central Asia somewhere. Pesky Mongols, what are they doing on our darling white European soil? :cursing:

[Viet Minh]

...from the actual Nazis, for being Hunnic / Turkic / Ugric / ah, just generally foreign invaders from far off in Central Asia somewhere. Pesky Mongols, what are they doing on our darling white European soil? :cursing:

:D Slavic Nazis are the most unbelievable to me.. :confused: Well actually Patrol 35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Israel) are the most unbelievable but they are a close second.

[Bud Struggle]

Oh, I thought there were Hungarians in Rome.

Sorry. :(

[Viet Minh]

Oh, I thought there were Hungarians in Rome.

Sorry. :(

Sorry I would have specified Roma Gypsy but some deem that word offensive.

This is unbelievable, these people are starving so they steal small amounts of fruit, and they are now being attacked for it? Worst of all the police don't seem to care.. :(

[Bud Struggle]

Sorry I would have specified Roma Gypsy but some deem that word offensive.

This is unbelievable, these people are starving so they steal small amounts of fruit, and they are now being attacked for it? Worst of all the police don't seem to care.. :(

FWIW: that's almost unimagenable. There's this race of people wondering around Europe--living a impoverished and segragated life. That kind of thing would never happen in the United States (to white people!) ;)

[Viet Minh]

FWIW: that's almost unimagenable. There's this race of people wondering around Europe--living a impoverished and segragated life. That kind of thing would never happen in the United States (to white people!) ;)

Sorry bad choice of words, its not unimaginable because I see it every day in homelessness etc. What I mean is its crazy how some people can be so narrow-minded that a few people stealing food to eat results in this backlash. People are frustrated with their governments, economies etc but what possible reason is there to target the most vulnerable impoverished group?

[TheUnconventionalist]

Sorry bad choice of words, its not unimaginable because I see it every day in homelessness etc. What I mean is its crazy how some people can be so narrow-minded that a few people stealing food to eat results in this backlash. People are frustrated with their governments, economies etc but what possible reason is there to target the most vulnerable impoverished group?

I don't really see a problem with private citizens getting together to patrol the streets from bums and vagrants. I think if their were more private citizen patrols, their would be much less crime, much less homeless crime as well. Roma Gipsies commit crime disproportionately to their population size. They represent 3% of Hungary's population, yet make up 2/3rds of the prison population in Hungary.

[Viet Minh]

I don't really see a problem with private citizens getting together to patrol the streets from bums and vagrants. I think if their were more private citizen patrols, their would be much less crime, much less homeless crime as well. Roma Gipsies commit crime disproportionately to their population size. They represent 3% of Hungary's population, yet make up 2/3rds of the prison population in Hungary.

http://soundtempest.net/soc/imgswf/coolface.jpg

[Viet Minh]

I don't really see a problem with private citizens getting together to patrol the streets from bums and vagrants. I think if their were more private citizen patrols, their would be much less crime, much less homeless crime as well. Roma Gipsies commit crime disproportionately to their population size. They represent 3% of Hungary's population, yet make up 2/3rds of the prison population in Hungary.

Seriously you're joking? You think vigilantism, based on racial stereotypes is acceptable? And judging by this article, attacking inncoent people based on petty crimes of others who may or may not be the same 'ethnicity'.. ?

[brigadista]

I don't really see a problem with private citizens getting together to patrol the streets from bums and vagrants. I think if their were more private citizen patrols, their would be much less crime, much less homeless crime as well. Roma Gipsies commit crime disproportionately to their population size. They represent 3% of Hungary's population, yet make up 2/3rds of the prison population in Hungary.

thus showing the discriminatory nature of the society- as in US re garding the proportion of black people incarcerated in prison .

The questions to ask about this are the same for both countries.

what you need to ask is not how many Roma are in prison but
how they got there
who prosecuted them and why
did they get proper representation in court

its called structural discrimination- Roma are demonised all over eastern europe and western europe too. In Kosovo Roma are forced to live on toxic dumps.
some also live in terrible conditions in Spain and also in Ireland i could go on but I must say with respect the ignorance of your post is breathtaking

[hatzel]

They represent 3% of Hungary's population, yet make up 2/3rds of the prison population in Hungary.

Although you hardly deserve it, I'm going to try to address your post as I'd address any other...the census says 2% of the population are Roma. All other estimations say about 4-5 times that, knowing as they do that the vast majority would never put their true ethnicity down on state documents, for fear of discrimination or retribution. So that figure's clearly bullshit, straight up. The second one will also be an estimate, because it's illegal for people to be identified in public records as Roma, so it's definitely not an official figure...you can cite a source, though, if you'd like :)

Oh, and before I forget:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4860395863_157c564363_z.jpg

And you do realise they're neither vagrants nor bums, right?

[Sasha]

I don't really see a problem with private citizens getting together to patrol the streets from bums and vagrants. I think if their were more private citizen patrols, their would be much less crime, much less homeless crime as well. Roma Gipsies commit crime disproportionately to their population size. They represent 3% of Hungary's population, yet make up 2/3rds of the prison population in Hungary.


and that's an longtime coming ban for you, congrats

[Red Commissar]

Jobbik and its supporters are really unpleasant people. They're like Arrow Cross Party Mk II.

Things seem to be really,really shitty in Hungary currently regarding the political climate. It's going towards a more and more ultra-nationalist position and making itself felt in all sectors, particularly those the most vulnerable to the state.

[RGacky3]

One thing that really pisses me off about europe since comming here, why the hell is it socially acceptable to be racist against the Roma people? People are such ass holes, even in socail-democrat liberal nations like norway.

[Che a chara]

Fuck me. Trying to survive is a crime.

Discrimination and severe social conditions make it impossible for Roma's to gain employment or any respectability in society. Why don't these boneheads probe these main causes and symptoms that create the need for a peasant population to expropriate a piece of fruit to live, then there wont be a need for scapegoats.

[hatzel]

Why don't these boneheads probe these main causes and symptoms that create the need for a peasant population to expropriate a piece of fruit to live, then there wont be a need for scapegoats.

The answer's in the question :)

[Red Commissar]

One thing that really pisses me off about europe since comming here, why the hell is it socially acceptable to be racist against the Roma people? People are such ass holes, even in socail-democrat liberal nations like norway.

I was curious about that too. It seems that even your self-styled "progressives" and even "radicals" are not so sympathetic when it comes to this topic. As far as I can gather there's a fairly deeply rooted conception that the Romani are nothing more than an organized criminal front and don't deserve any sort of help but rather expulsion. It overlaps with the immigration debate too.

It doesn't help when by and large the media doesn't give two shits either. I recall a certain documentary that was aired on the BBC (I think it was "Gypsy Child Thieves") that don't help with clearing misconception.

I mean we have to keep in mind that even while Jobbik is encouraging this in Hungary, other European states have already implemented anti-Roma legislation. France has put their own in and other countries pretty much followed suit with different methods.

[RGacky3]

FWIW: that's almost unimagenable. There's this race of people wondering around Europe--living a impoverished and segragated life. That kind of thing would never happen in the United States (to white people!) ;)

Bud ... Don't even try ... yes ... even white people in America eat dog food.


I was curious about that too. It seems that even your self-styled "progressives" and even "radicals" are not so sympathetic when it comes to this topic. As far as I can gather there's a fairly deeply rooted conception that the Romani are nothing more than an organized criminal front and don't deserve any sort of help but rather expulsion. It overlaps with the immigration debate too.


I love that, that organized crime thing every one seams to pin on the Roma, really? So some genius criminal syndicate came up with the genius racket of begging, pick pocketing and stealing small amounts of food or whatever, yeah, the Cosa Nostra and Russian Mafia have a rival.

Its such bullshit.


I mean we have to keep in mind that even while Jobbik is encouraging this in Hungary, other European states have already implemented anti-Roma legislation. France has put their own in and other countries pretty much followed suit with different methods.

Does'nt suprise me, racism is a real problem in France, and honestly it makes American race relations look great.

[Viet Minh]

I love that, that organized crime thing every one seams to pin on the Roma, really? So some genius criminal syndicate came up with the genius racket of begging, pick pocketing and stealing small amounts of food or whatever, yeah, the Cosa Nostra and Russian Mafia have a rival.

Its such bullshit.

Its maybe a bit innapropriate of me but I laughed hard at that.. :D

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I'm sorry, but the story of Romani troubles are most depressing. It's not because of the fact that these sad, angry groups of young men forming goon squads exist. It's more that there are never any signs of deeper, mass support for the plight of the Roma.

France had riots a few years ago due to immigrant rights, however the large cross-wide section of society loudly calling for an end to all racism is nonexistent.


Does'nt suprise me, racism is a real problem in France, and honestly it makes American race relations look great.

If by France you mean (especially) continental europe then I could not agree more. In the contemporary USA, the hint of cruel racism in Jena, LA for example resulted in massive shows of solidarity. The US has a debate about immigration, with some on the right calling for no amnesty and deportation. But we have a debate on the issue. Unlike in France, where the debate seems to be on the most effective method of bulldozing housing. Fucking jackboot neonazis marching through hungarian villages with support? In Anycity USA, when jackboot neonazis go marching they need the protection.

The situations in the USA and Europe are completely different. In the USA, a heterogenous society lives after centuries of struggle and sacrifice. In Europe, it seems that despite more struggling and more sacrificing there's still some deep seated love for homogenous societies that exclude anyone who looks different. I have never been, but from what I have read, it seems that many European cities are far more segregated than anything in the US, Paris for example is cited as an example often.


I love that, that organized crime thing every one seams to pin on the Roma, really? So some genius criminal syndicate came up with the genius racket of begging, pick pocketing and stealing small amounts of food or whatever, yeah, the Cosa Nostra and Russian Mafia have a rival.

Its such bullshit.

Europe already wiped out the long lasting International Jewish Banking Conspiracy. Yet despite the death camps still left as reminders of the effort, a blind eye is turned by many towards the Roma now that they're being singled out. We all need to keep and eye on this, and not let it go away when the immediate tensions simmer down if the economy comes back and peoples stop blaming poor minorities for their woes.

[RGacky3]

It is totally appropriate to laugh at idiotic racism.

[Tim Finnegan]

One thing that really pisses me off about europe since comming here, why the hell is it socially acceptable to be racist against the Roma people? People are such ass holes, even in socail-democrat liberal nations like norway.

I'm sorry, but the story of Romani troubles are most depressing. It's not because of the fact that these sad, angry groups of young men forming goon squads exist. It's more that there are never any signs of deeper, mass support for the plight of the Roma.
I agree. A huge number of otherwise relatively progressive people seem to have a complete blind spot when it comes to racism against traveller peoples, of whatever ethnicity, to an extent which I'm often genuinely shocked to discover.